Sick bird..any ideas please

[Coedhirion]

In November a friends FHH dived for a duck in a river in full flood. She only just made the bank. She was taken home dried off, kept warm etc. Over the next 3 days all was well with at least one rabbit each day. Day 4 she missed an easy slip. Day 6 caught nothing...odd for this bird. Day 7, not many rabbits, found an easy slip, freak gust of wind, bunny kicked and the bird landed on her back!! Day 8, within 15 minutes of taking her out the owner was convinced there was something wrong, so 2 hour drive to vet for endoscope, x ray, mute sample. All tests showed nothing!!
Day 9, the bird appeared to be panting after one short flight so taken home, antibiotics started.
Day 10, the bird was panting after bating just a few times and wasnt flown, given antibiotics and put on nebuliser for Aspi and also with F10, this traetment carried on each day.
Day 11, Lab results showed nothing, bird was gasping after smallest exertion.
Day 12, Back to Vet..endoscope showed thick mass on way down to air sacks. X ray showed lungs clogged with something, another lab sample sent off with mute sample too. Antibiotics changed, nebuliser continued plus treatment for Aspi tho tests said none.
By day 15 the bird appeared near death, with nasty grating breathing and if it got off the bow it's tongue was lolling out the side of its mouth. The friend sat up all night expecting the bird to die.
Day 16 a well known falconer sugested steroids, Vet said it would kill her, but with nothing to loose steroids that could be given through a nebuliser were started at 9am. by 10am the bird appeared to be breathing much easier. Through all this the apetite was good, with steroids the bird was frantic for food.
3 weeks later the bird appears to have made a good recovery, the next endoscope showed nothing, x rays showed reasonably clear. Lab tests were still useless, they coudn't give an answer.
Vets bill was £720 !!! ah well !!
Then 3 days ago the bird (who has been living in the house since becoming so ill) was fed late. She appeared to be shaking her head and throwing up watery droplets, so was given no food. An hour later she brought up a 6" worm ?!! it looked more like a snake or a piece of creance but with worm segments. Vet phoned... they had no idea..so it has gone off to find out what it is and if it from lungs or digestive worm???
Sorry it is such a long story!!...if you get to the end and have ever come across this before or have any idea please let us know...NB 3 top avian vets have been chatting about this one and the last vets bill is still to arrive !!!! Oh plus the tests on this disgusting worm thing. !!!

[GlenCool]

sorry to here about this, as am just getting in this business sorry a cant say nowt on the matter

[LongVVing]

Sorry to hear the birds misfortune. I am not a vet but the one I use uses different treatments depending on what type of worm infection the bird has.
By the sound of it it does sound like a type of lung worm from the xray results indicating a a blockage around the lungs and breathing difficulties.

Not sure where in Wales you are but the avian vet I use is Dick Best he is based near Bristol 01275 847400 if you are still getting diagnosis problems.
Hopefully your vet can identify the worm and give the appropriate treatment.

Sorry cant be more help and hope you get your bird fixed up!

[Graham Stuart]

has the bird improved since spewing up the worm mate, hope she makes a full recovery...keep us informed

[Coedhirion]

Bird was taken to Cardiff and to Bristol. Only the best for this wicked FHH who is in her 5th year and takes hare, pheasant and up to 5 rabbits a day at 2lb 4oz she is much loved and appreciated. Hopefully scar tissue left will not affect her too much, only time will tell. She has appeared pretty much over it all soon after the steroids were started, but obviously after being so near to death it will take time for the system to recover. Given the chance she would have been out bunny bashing a couple of weeks ago by her atitude, but as she hasn't been out to weather or spent a night out of the house for so long, it will all take time.

[LongVVing]

Oh meant to say that a friend had a bird which caught lungworm, I believe his was treated with ivomec.

There is also a possibility of it being gapeworm which is also a respiratory tract worm.

Goodluck anyways,

[Kanati]

keep us informed about the test results etc. I would like to know what the lung problem is. Hope this hawk pulls through ok. Good luck

[Coedhirion]

mmm trouble is lung and gape worm just dont get that big ???? or show such drastic symptoms so quick...
OH and I forgot to say they did blood tests each time too... That was the only thing that showed any thing odd on 1st visit...The white blood cell count was up a bit ???

[LongVVing]

Sorry for the late post, hopefully you are now on top of it! keep us posted on what the worm turned out to be and hope your harris will make a complete recovery.

[Roel_Birds]

You don't happen to have a picture of that worm? I might be able to help when I see it. I hope the bird makes a full recovery.

[Coedhirion]

no...silly didnt think of that, just scooped it up in to a pot and posted it FCLPost to the Vet after a phone call to see if he could identify it from description. It was just a 6" long thin, round kinda dirty white. Looked at first glance as tho she had swallowed a length of creance and brought it back up. But she has been on a bow in the sitting room since November and this had kind of segment marks. Not like a tape worm cos they are flat and wider. No worm eggs showed in any of the mute samples, but at that size it must have been old enough to reproduce. we were assuming that the problem was something taken in to the lungs when she went in to the river as it was in flood and full of soil and debris and she had a hard fight to get back out as it was flowing so fast...we thought fungal or just a bug till the worm turned up!!!

[Ben C]

We had a gapeworm...well two in fact and they match that description. Cody had thrown himself into a few duck ponds at the time. They were so huge that the vet kept them and put them in his 'monster' cupboard.

I am not saying thats what it is as I am not that skilled a judge: But the parralles are similar.

[JayHawk]

i know this story as i met the owner around about when this happened the bird whos name i wont dissclose is obviously loved very much indeed and is a good hunting bird when i met the owner she was absoulutly gutted at what had happened, i hope the bird will make a full recovery for both parties sake keep us posted on the results of the worm an on the bird and owners recovery........................

[Dude]

Sorry to hear that. I hope she have fast recovery!

regards,
Dan.

[Coedhirion]

i know this story as i met the owner around about when this happened the bird whos name i wont dissclose is obviously loved very much indeed and is a good hunting bird when i met the owner she was absoulutly gutted at what had happened, i hope the bird will make a full recovery for both parties sake keep us posted on the results of the worm an on the bird and owners recovery........................
South Wales??? will keep you posted, we were hoping that with all the Harris flying around in the USA some one may have come across this before...it sure has our Avian vets bewildered, they are consulting each other around the country. The worm has gone to Bristol to see if he can identify it. May be we will then find out if it was the cause of the mystery illness. She prefers the birds name not to be mentioned, it is quite well known.... Owner is doing fine and flying a MHH with considerable success, to keep her ocupied.

[JayHawk]

tell me more about the male how is he doing has he been entered yet if so what wieght etc etc etc

jay

[Dave D.]

, we were hoping that with all the Harris flying around in the USA some one may have come across this before...it sure has our Avian vets bewildered, they are consulting each other around the country.

I haven't seen anything like what you have described in a HH but a raptor vet near here said that every dead prairie falcon he necropsied had a bad case of air-sac worms. He said these worms take advantage of any stress in a raptor and can kill one quickly. I think ivermectin was his drug of choice. The worms can move to other parts of the body. I am sorry that I don't know what they look like and this might be completely different than what you have. I hope it turns out ok.

Dave D.

[Harrisii]

HOPING SHE HAS A SPEEDY RECOVERY.
sad to hear such a well looked after bird taking ill. hope you get to the bottom of the illness. is it possible the illness and worm were non-related??
just a thought.
wishing you well, harrisii.

[Coedhirion]

tell me more about the male how is he doing has he been entered yet if so what wieght etc etc etc

jay

3 rabbits yesterday!!! not sure today.
Was entered fairly quickly after she had it, but it was at a 'false' hunting weight, so it wasn't till it was reduced a bit it realy started to operate. Had several double kills before the 3 in a day. Is just about silent except when excitement sets in and it jumps around in the box when you arrive at hunting land. The rest of the time it is very laid back and is happy to let you handle wings, feet and clean it's beak. Comes off the kill with ease...hope that answers your questions !!!

[Coedhirion]

Well the worm turned out to be nothing more than a monster round worm, a normal size one turned up 48hrs later. Very strange as 3 mute samples had all tested negative for worms.
So the lung problem will probably never be solved. This bird must be a Vets nightmare and a real 'one off.'
It was bitten by a 'black gnat' a few years ago and clinically 'died' on the vets table. The breathing and heart stopped. Luckily some very kind Harris owner had agreed to give some blood and a Vet had rushed over and taken some, he then rushed back and gave the bird a blood transfusion. I think it was the only BOP to survive a transfusion back then. Any how during it all, he had to re-start heart and breathing. The bird got over it all tho as last season she was taking up to 5 rabbit in a day. So time will tell if she will recover from this enough to be able to hunt again.

[BLD122]

Tell your story to the people on Raptor Care site. They may be able to help.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RaptorCare/

Good Luck!

[JayHawk]

spoke to the owner about two hours ago bird seems to be doing well and owner hopes to take some game before season ends....great great news the owner and the bird deserve the best as as you have read they have been through hell let alone astronomical vets bills keep us posted coedhirion........................................ .................................................. .......................nice to hear the male is doing so well

pm me with any news or keep the thread going as all will want to know

jayhawk

[North East Harris Hawker]

this is an incredible story, im so glad that the bird has made a recovery. what was the total for the vets fees then? i know you cant put a price on your bird but its really not on to pay for tests that allegedly show nothing..

[Sprout]

Bit naive there NEHH. Tests are always useful whether they give an answer or not. Ruling things out is just as important as getting definite answers. Ruling out metabolic disease and the likes can only be done by blood tests etc - they came back as negative so allows those to be ruled out etc etc. It sounds one hell of a case, just hope it's all sorted now and good luck to all involved.

[Coedhirion]

All medicines and the F10 nebuliser has stopped now and the bird still appears OK. It is still living in the sitting room on its bow as it would be too much of a shock to put it out in the cold after all these weeks. The idea is to start weathering it out for a short while each day (weather permitting) start dropping the weight back down in the hope of a bit of gentle hunting before the season is over. Come what may, if the bird stays well we will get her a last rabbit of the season some how. If it has effected the lung capacity too much I think there is a queue of people who would like her for breeding.

JAY....thought you might be you..if you see what I mean, so past on your interest. Think todays brought the males total to about 23 or 25 already. We cut his day short as he also had a mouse and my bird was waiting in his box for his turn!!!.. My idiot missed 2 as 4 ran and he coudn't make his mind up which to grab. Any how he did get a real cracker too. Both birds made brilliant stoops in to cover and had to make 3 attempts before finding a big enough gap through the under growth to get their feet on the bunny. The rabbits start getting clever at this time of year!!! Brilliant 5 hours hunting with them today !!! plus a pair of bunny in the bags.... He got a good home and is doing real well, learning fast and well rewarded. Love his colour too, some twit thought he was a Redtail!!! With a head like that !!!! and propper HH feet!!!????? If he had anything else mixed in more likely to be Gos !!!!! :lol: :lol: