gos/buzzard

[Talon]

http://www.goshawk.cz/

just seen this addvert on ibr web site .goshawk/buzzard for sale from the
czeck rep.

its not a bad looking bird.

[Hardcore Hawker]

Why??????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????

[Tarqers]

looker from the front,probably got the speed of a buzz and the strops of a gos,mine got booted of a rab yestaday and throw a horrendess **** fit,and footed me ,,,,tarq

[NGuruve]

i have no idea wat the point in this is but is a looker

[Tarqers]

image,

[Juzzer]

nice looking bird!!!!!

cant beat a finnish tho for looks:heart:

[Tr1gger]

It looks nice, strange but a sit wrong. I dont no why it just looks wrong to me

[Alpha40]

You would have thought at least use a RT, with a bit of Guts about it. Just seems very pointless, like putting diesel in a high performance sports car.<g>
Terry

[Tim Laycock]

Nothing but an abomination!

To a degree I can understand falcon hybrids but why re-invent the wheel?

[Biarmicus]

http://www.goshawk.cz/

just seen this addvert on ibr web site .goshawk/buzzard for sale from the
czeck rep.

its not a bad looking bird.

Striking markings on that gos hybrid! especially the second photo :)

Brittney

[ColdZero]

what a pointless thing to do...but i have to admit i am curious what it is like.

[SycoPaff]

http://www.goshawk.cz/

just seen this addvert on ibr web site .goshawk/buzzard for sale from the
czeck rep.

its not a bad looking bird.
someone needs to die! and quickly!

[MattSpar]

someone needs to die! and quickly!

Why's that for heaven's sake? I'd be interested to know how such a bird performed.

[Tim Laycock]

Like a diluted Goshawk.

[GaryPCO]

Why's that for heaven's sake? I'd be interested to know how such a bird performed.
its not something id want to see but,if falcon hybryds are acceptable then why not.....:cool:

[GosFlyer]

nice looking bird but what would be the advantages of a cross like this, may as well just fly a harris thats somewhere between the two

[MattSpar]

nice looking bird but what would be the advantages of a cross like this

Probably none, but who knows without flying one? I try to keep an open and inquisitive mind about these things.

[Biarmicus]

I personally see nothing wrong with a gos/buzzard hybrid as it seems that the falcon hybrids have been welcomed into falconry without much of a problem, alot of people seem to be getting gyr/peregrines and peregrine/prairies and other numerous hybrids for the use of falconry.

Personally I can see nothing wrong with breeding hybrid birds, but to each their own.

Brittney :D

[Lee C]

WHAT A LOOKER I AM IN LOVE!!
She looks fit as well as in fit fit, not fit. But saying that she is a looker!
Has dare I ask anyone flown one?
Lee C

[Hawkmaster]

http://www.goshawk.cz/goss_buzz.html

[Jastreb]

That's stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!There's no point to do such a thing!!!!!!

[BHawk]

its not something id want to see but,if falcon hybryds are acceptable then why not.....:cool:

hybrid falcons were bred for a reason, not just for the ****s n giggles, may look nice but is it fair on the bird, look at perlins you tend to get quite a few genetic defaults because the differences, when will hybridisation go to far when they breed 3 legged, blind, goshawks crossed with wombats! if theirs a need then yes its acceptable but otherwise why?? we're supposed to be thinking of the birds, not with just our curiosity.

[Tim Laycock]

BHawk
Your post defines my stance on this entirely, Exellent!

[Tr1gger]

hybrid falcons were bred for a reason, not just for the ****s n giggles, may look nice but is it fair on the bird, look at perlins you tend to get quite a few genetic defaults because the differences, when will hybridisation go to far when they breed 3 legged, blind, goshawks crossed with wombats! if theirs a need then yes its acceptable but otherwise why?? we're supposed to be thinking of the birds, not with just our curiosity.

:supz: Bang on, the falcons hav a purpose and theres a reason why we dont see many buzzard hybrids around

[Hacker]

maybe it performs nearly close to a gos with the temperament of a buteo?
Or performs like a buteo with the temperament of the gos!
As MattSpar says would be interesting to know just how it behaves and performs.

[OutFlying]

I think too many people are beginning to believe the urban myths - once and for all "a correctly manned / trained goshawk is no more tempermental or difficult than an equally manned / trained harrishawk. There is only one difference - a goshawk is less forgiving of slack handling and that's it, no need to generate a hybred unless it's to allow slack handlers to fly something different.

Just my thoughts.

OF.

[Hacker]

you have only got to look at dogs, they have been bred now for every event, type size colour the list is never ending.
As much as we wish the pursuit of the art of falconry to be with" pure" birds time moves on.
As Nick Fox said,the days of Falco Domesticus are not that far away.
Ever since the first bop`s were captive bred the die was set.
No one will stop this as ourselves "man" are curious as to how we can perfect or change our world for our own ends.
This happens in all spheres of life, i am afraid falconry it seems is just catching up.
Not always a good thing but how many acient sports still remain unchanged today?

[OutFlying]

As for moving on - why will this hybred improve on either species ?

[Hacker]

Who said it would?

[Hacker]

there will be many attempts, some types will fail some will win, all i say is that we will not halt it.

[GosFlyer]

I think too many people are beginning to believe the urban myths - once and for all "a correctly manned / trained goshawk is no more tempermental or difficult than an equally manned / trained harrishawk.

OF.
its hard getting most HH flyers to believe it but its true. no need to alter a gos, slow it down for the sake of what, some HH have bad attitude, ive had some that would'nt fly for anyone else and even hated some people, not had a P/R gos like that though. gos x buzz cr-p.:rolleyes:

[Renton]

its hard getting most HH flyers to believe it but its true. no need to alter a gos, slow it down for the sake of what, some HH have bad attitude, ive had some that would'nt fly for anyone else and even hated some people, not had a P/R gos like that though. gos x buzz cr-p.:rolleyes:

Why change a gos? What is the point of that kind of hybrid? I know; longwing hybrids are a different matter, before anyone shoots me down in flames! As I have said before on a different thread, it all depends upon the individual bird. My FHH is fine with me, although she hates anyone else.

[Hacker]

I can`t say that i approve of a gos/buzzard hybrid but why are longwing hybrids acceptable and shortwings not, from an ethical point of view, not "I do not like it" view?

[SakerYZF]

strange but curiosity sinks in:P

[Renton]

I can`t say that i approve of a gos/buzzard hybrid but why are longwing hybrids acceptable and shortwings not, from an ethical point of view, not "I do not like it" view?

I don't know! Hopefully, some forum members into longwings would care to comment.

What is the point of crossing a broadwing with a shortwing? Different species with very different methods of hunting, unlike longwings, sounds like one would only get the worst characteristics of both species.

[Hardcore Hawker]

Have to agree with out flying properly conditioned parent reared goshawks can be bombproof if handled correctly, on one occasion at the welsh annual fieldmeet we had a group of sixteen people and nine dogs with us and all the gosses present flew very well indeed my parent reared female would fly over any dog and would also fly to the fist of someone it was not familier with where on the other hand i have a forteen year old female harris which will only fly when out alone if i take another person with me it will just get that wild eye look and ****** off at any weight, Weight reduction does nothing to alieviate this.

[NGuruve]

wat i want to know is why the common buzzard? surely a redtail or a harris is more suited to this its rediculus i know that they are probably trying to get a better temprament but this will only be useful to people that aren't ready or willing to put the effort in to a gos

[Harrisii]

awesome looking bird.
http://www.goshawk.cz/goss_buzz.html
looks like a gos' from the back and a c. buzzard from the front.

these hybrids will always stir up different things in different people. they aint ideal i feel, but would be very qurious as to how they would perform. looks a racey buzzard. most objections would probably come from those who flew a gos' as they see it as the perfect bird and wouldnt want it interfered with, and righly so.
falcon hybrids are more acceptable as they are more closely related than the hawks and buzzards. (other crazy hybrids ;like than kestrel X peregrine) etc.

humans will always hybridise different animals. they want to play god and try and outdo mother nature. its in the human makeup to mess with these things. some of the hybrids which humans produce are incredable but people cant help themselves.

ive got to say that it is a real handsome bird. would be interested to know what benefits it would have, if any at all. but then, thats why they were produced in the first place i think.
why do it?? just because you can.

to all you gos' guys.
perhaps it would benefit others if you perhaps put a thread up and tried to dispell some of the myths about the gos'.
its an unfair reputation of being tempremental and nippy and with all the stuff about fits, aggresion, dying if you fart in a room etc, etc.
you guys obviously love your species and as a harris fan i get rather peeved if people slag of my species and see it as only a beginers bird etc, all the ussual allegations.
those who know the harris know its strengths and verasatility and how good they are, those who fly the gos' know more than any other about her temperament and attitutde.
perhaps using this forum as a way to get your point accross and dispell the urban myths would be a good thing for everyone. i for one would love to know more.
i fly harrises and am happy and know its potential but only those who actually fly a gos' will know theirs. vice versa.

[Hawkmaster]

MOVED FROM GENERAL FALCONRY

[Tomkuzma]

wat i want to know is why the common buzzard? surely a redtail or a harris is more suited to this its rediculus i know that they are probably trying to get a better temprament but this will only be useful to people that aren't ready or willing to put the effort in to a gos


Althought I don't want to join this conversation I can answer your question. Why common buzzard? simple reason. There are only two RT in my country and few (I think maybe 15) HH. With those numbers is hard to find a bird for potential cross breeding.

The bird is male and suppose to fly very fast...that's what I've heard.

[Jastreb]

**** again, there is really no reason for that!
If you don't have time for a gos, then don't fly a gos, and not to do such stupidities!

[GM090158]

This bird has just turned up for sale on the IBR Bird Mart!

[Talon]

Althought I don't want to join this conversation I can answer your question. Why common buzzard? simple reason. There are only two RT in my country and few (I think maybe 15) HH. With those numbers is hard to find a bird for potential cross breeding.

The bird is male and suppose to fly very fast...that's what I've heard.


hi tomkuzma.... its a female i spotted it on ibr web site for sale
but i think ppl want to know is why cross breed it. with a buzzard
wether common or redtail theres no point.

[Tim Laycock]

The only kind of accipiter/buteo hybrid I could envince any interest in would be a Finnish Gos x Ferruge.
I think you would get a compact, agile powerhouse that would probably destroy ground game.

Even so, after thinking about it for about 30 seconds alarm bells ring in my head.

Abomination!!!

[Jastreb]

Exactly Tim, in that case you buy male golden and that's it!
Cheers m8!

[Tim Laycock]

Viktor, imagine an imprint :twisted: :lol:

Good clean wholesome fun! pmsl

[OutFlying]

awesome looking bird.
http://www.goshawk.cz/goss_buzz.html
looks like a gos' from the back and a c. buzzard from the front.

to all you gos' guys.
perhaps it would benefit others if you perhaps put a thread up and tried to dispell some of the myths about the gos'.
its an unfair reputation of being tempremental and nippy and with all the stuff about fits, aggresion, dying if you fart in a room etc, etc.
you guys obviously love your species and as a harris fan i get rather peeved if people slag of my species and see it as only a beginers bird etc, all the ussual allegations.
those who know the harris know its strengths and verasatility and how good they are, those who fly the gos' know more than any other about her temperament and attitutde.
perhaps using this forum as a way to get your point accross and dispell the urban myths would be a good thing for everyone. i for one would love to know more.
i fly harrises and am happy and know its potential but only those who actually fly a gos' will know theirs. vice versa.


I rather the myths stayed in place and then the ******s in the sport will stay away from them. :twisted:

Fits are not a problem for a well fed and conditioned goshawk - they don't die of fits in the wild, so why would they in capitivity ?

Why would they be aggressive or more aggressive than other hawks ?

Goshawks are quite hardy and don't usually just die.

Tempremental, also not a problem if trained correctly.


As I have stated on many occasions, it isn't any harder to own, train and fly a gos correctly than it is to fly a harris hawk correctly. NOTE the term correctly.

OF

[Jastreb]

Viktor, imagine an imprint :twisted: :lol:

Good clean wholesome fun! pmsl
:twisted: :twisted:
Corecct Jim!

[NGuruve]

Althought I don't want to join this conversation I can answer your question. Why common buzzard? simple reason. There are only two RT in my country and few (I think maybe 15) HH. With those numbers is hard to find a bird for potential cross breeding.

The bird is male and suppose to fly very fast...that's what I've heard.

cheers yer just a experiment bound to get the gos people up in arms as they dont want anything to happen to the gosses abilty but u never know it may be better that a gos? not sure in wat way but maybe

[Harrisii]

I rather the myths stayed in place and then the ******s in the sport will stay away from them. :twisted:

Fits are not a problem for a well fed and conditioned goshawk - they don't die of fits in the wild, so why would they in capitivity ?

Why would they be aggressive or more aggressive than other hawks ?

Goshawks are quite hardy and don't usually just die.

Tempremental, also not a problem if trained correctly.


As I have stated on many occasions, it isn't any harder to own, train and fly a gos correctly than it is to fly a harris hawk correctly. NOTE the term correctly.

OF

looks like you have done your best to dispell the myth jim by rubbishing those claims, so much for wanting to keep them in place.

i know what its like to have people rubbish your birds, it aint great.
just thought by experienced owners stating the opositr thern what more can you ask for.
thanks for your input jim. cheers harrisii.

[HawkMan69UK]

cheers yer just a experiment bound to get the gos people up in arms as they dont want anything to happen to the gosses abilty but u never know it may be better that a gos? not sure in wat way but maybe why would it be faster than the real thing:roll: :roll:

[HawkMan69UK]

quote..The bird is male and suppose to fly very fast...that's what I've heard. ...... SO IS A BLOODY GOS:confused: :supz:

[Tim Laycock]

If you put water in your whisky its not so strongly flavoured!

Similar deal here without doubt!

[MattSpar]

If you put water in your whisky its not so strongly flavoured!

Similar deal here without doubt!

The only thing I add to my scotch is...... scotch.

[Renton]

The only thing I add to my scotch is...... scotch.

Very sensible!

[Tim Laycock]

Watered whisky :vom:

[SycoPaff]

Why's that for heaven's sake? I'd be interested to know how such a bird performed.
people just arn't satisfied with one or the other! alway's looking for something new! way to ruin a gos! and a buzzard for that matter! its just wrong!

[MattSpar]

people just arn't satisfied with one or the other! alway's looking for something new! way to ruin a gos! and a buzzard for that matter! its just wrong!

You're perfectly entitled to your point of view of course. One thing's certain though. The fact is, this particular hybrid is here and to fail to at least find out what it's capable of would be wrong. I can't see that any gos has been ruined by this. There will still be plenty of gosses. I can't see a real problem. Just a difference in viewpoints.

[NGuruve]

why would it be faster than the real thing:roll: :roll:

i never said it would be faster i dont agree but watever the reason it may turn out to be usefull can you say that it wont 100% no its only 99% certain that it will anyways watever happens there is nothing we can do to stop it atm

[NGuruve]

You're perfectly entitled to your point of view of course. One thing's certain though. The fact is, this particular hybrid is here and to fail to at least find out what it's capable of would be wrong. I can't see that any gos has been ruined by this. There will still be plenty of gosses. I can't see a real problem. Just a differnce in viewpoints.
and i agree with you matt well said

[BHawk]

does anyone actually know the breeder, and does anyone know exactly his reasons for this hybrid, if the reasons were out of wanting to play god and curiosity i am ashamed, if the intentions were more innocent some how it could be the breeder was just foolish, but god help me, we aint allowed to clone humans and modify ourselfs so why can we do it to animals for nothing more than curiosity... and as for the reasons behind breeding longwings, one reason was to create a falcon better for falconry than any other pure bred, the reason for this not being greed, it was to help stop falconers taking eggs from the wild, by the reasoning that if there is better in captivity then why go out an take wild ones...other reasons may have been less admirable but that happens in all situations. as for this bird the curiosity grips me, wondering all the usual questions but then i realise there is no reason.............for the reasons i stated in my previous post on this topic i also do not agree with perlins or any other hybrids in which the taxanomical relationship between the birds is bloody ridiculous... any ways thats me thoughts on it
oh and just so you all know BEAVER POO FLOATS!!!!(cos its got so much wood in it)

[BHawk]

You're perfectly entitled to your point of view of course. One thing's certain though. The fact is, this particular hybrid is here and to fail to at least find out what it's capable of would be wrong. I can't see that any gos has been ruined by this. There will still be plenty of gosses. I can't see a real problem. Just a differnce in viewpoints.

oh an not having a go at you mate but falconry is all about flying a bird to game that has a chance of surviving, if you were to hunt with a super bird there would be no point, may aswel buy a gun, falconry is not an easy hunt, we have to work at it, train the bird, help the bird learn techniques to hunt better...otherwise we are taking the easy route, destroying our sport and not keeping the spirit of the sport true to its nature....


as far as i can remember the dictionary states that falconry is "training a hawk or falcon to hunt to its natural prey in as natural enviroment as possible"
how many species have a hybrid falcon as there natural predator

[MattSpar]

oh an not having a go at you mate

No of course you're not. I realise that.

[Moses]

nice looking bird but bloody hell a gos with a buzzard

its like breeding an arab horse with a shetland pony

[Moses]

You would have thought at least use a RT, with a bit of Guts about it. Just seems very pointless, like putting diesel in a high performance sports car.<g>
Terry


well said bud i agree

[Moses]

nice looking bird but what would be the advantages of a cross like this, may as well just fly a harris thats somewhere between the two


probably easier to man and tame and not so prone to fits and nervousness

who knows but as alpha said a red tail and gos would have been wicked maybe

[BHawk]

curiosity killed the cat!

[MattSpar]

curiosity killed the cat!

I prefer, "They are ill discoverers that think there is no land, when they can see nothing but sea". (Francis Bacon).

[GosFlyer]

nice looking bird but bloody hell a gos with a buzzard

its like breeding an arab horse with a shetland pony


well put moses, cosmeticaly nice functionaly ?.:rolleyes:

[Harrisii]

as far as i can remember the dictionary states that falconry is "training a hawk or falcon to hunt to its natural prey in as natural enviroment as possible"
how many species have a hybrid falcon as there natural predator

its natural prey in as natural environment as possible ???
rabbits aint native to these isles, and neither are harris' or red-tails.
so does this apply here too?? no of course not.

these birds hunt rabbits in their natural homelands but not our type of rabbit and not pheasants either. so its all un-natural. dont mean its wrong.

[BrianM]

I Like It!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hacker]

If you put water in your whisky its not so strongly flavoured!

Similar deal here without doubt!
Still got the same alcoholic content though!

[OutFlying]

probably easier to man and tame and not so prone to fits and nervousness

who knows but as alpha said a red tail and gos would have been wicked maybe

Moses - have you seen a goshawk have a fit ? if it where to have a fit, what would the reason be ?

Jim.

[Tim Laycock]

Still got the same alcoholic content though!
I dont quite know how this relates to my post but you are quite right.

However, I would not expect anyone other than a goshawker to understand what I was meaning by flavour.

[Moses]

Moses - have you seen a goshawk have a fit ? if it where to have a fit, what would the reason be ?

Jim.

mate never seen it i heard it from u and other lads who own them , part of the reason why its not recommended for beginners i heard u say :D


is it when u r trying to control its weight and it can be difficult and if u get it wrong , if u reduce it too much it can take a fit which can end in death of the bird

only guessing mate

[MattSpar]

I dont quite know how this relates to my post but you are quite right.

However, I would not expect anyone other than a goshawker to understand what I was meaning by flavour.

If by this, Blackbird means that however good this hybrid is in the field, it simply won't come up to the standard of a gos, he's absolutely right of course. It's half common buzzard after all. I can understand completely how any hybridization of the gos would be seen as "dilution". However, facts are facts. It's here, and at least we might see, if it ends up in capable hands, what the damn thing can do. If nothing else, it would be interesting to know.

[Tim Laycock]

Matt, you have read me exactly right :D

I too would be curious but it is only morbid curiousity

[OutFlying]

mate never seen it i heard it from u and other lads who own them , part of the reason why its not recommended for beginners i heard u say :D


is it when u r trying to control its weight and it can be difficult and if u get it wrong , if u reduce it too much it can take a fit which can end in death of the bird

only guessing mate

Moses,
I've never had a gos have a fit or ever mentioned that goshawks are prone to fits. Usually quoted by people with little knowledge of goshawks. Yes they will have fits when fed inadequate diet and taken too low - that's why you have to trained and fly them correctly, no more difficult than other hawks just less forgiving of mistakes.

SUMMARY - Good condition healthy goshawks do not suffer from fits - END OF MYTH :roll: :roll: :roll:

Jim.

ps People who only use weight reduction as a way of training will fly a poor goshawk.

[Moses]

Moses,
I've never had a gos have a fit or ever mentioned that goshawks are prone to fits. Usually quoted by people with little knowledge of goshawks. Yes they will have fits when fed inadequate diet and taken too low - that's why you have to trained and fly them correctly, no more difficult than other hawks just less forgiving of mistakes.

SUMMARY - Good condition healthy goshawks do not suffer from fits - END OF MYTH :roll: :roll: :roll:

Jim.

ps People who only use weight reduction as a way of training will fly a poor goshawk.


thanks jim the last part is what bert said too the time it gets to fly free it will be to weak to hunt


mate do they have a faster metabolism or something than the buzzard species

cheers

[OutFlying]

Moses
Yes they do have a faster metabolism.

Jim.

[Moses]

Moses
Yes they do have a faster metabolism.

Jim.


thanks mate, makes sense now

cheers :)

[Puzo]

Why why why,oh yes££££££££££££££££££££££I see.Such an abomination flys in the face of reason.It may look ok"if you like that sort of thing",but handsome is as handsome does. Belongs in a freak circus next to the monkey mermaid & the dog with two heads.!!!!!