Stoats

[Goldie]

I have just discovered that i have an unwanted stoat visiting my garden.
The little ****** wont play ball and sit long enough for me to shoot it.
I need to get rid before my birds start breeding and before the stoats breed and give me a bigger problem.
Any ideas as to the best trap to use that will do the job ?

[Skeld]

I use a live catch cage trap baited with cat food or rabbit. I caught loads like this when I was trapping polecats for SNH

[Euan]

My mate had squirrels in his attic, he got a live trapping squirrel trap off the net somewhere. Is that the kind of thing you mean? (in an appropriate size)?

I'll ask him tonight where he got it

[Ben C]

Warferin in a rabbits head?????

[Talon]

bad idear .you dont realy know whats going to feed on it ..could easely be a buzzard.i suggest live trap or put rabbit carcas out and wait with gun.
time consumming but a lot safer.

[Goldie]

I should have said that poisoned bait is not an option

[Harrisii]

Warferin in a rabbits head?????

your sick Ben.

get a ferret out and let it run around the stoats hideouts. that will shift it.
it wont bother you again. the scent of the ferret will keep it away.

[Lanner_Man]

caught three of these guys in live cage traps, as part of my collage course (gamekeeping) all we done was found a run that they had and stuck the trap down, no bait needed.

[Harrisii]

I have just discovered that i have an unwanted stoat visiting my garden.
The little ****** wont play ball and sit long enough for me to shoot it.
I need to get rid before my birds start breeding and before the stoats breed and give me a bigger problem.
Any ideas as to the best trap to use that will do the job ?

where in Lanarkshire are you goldie??
i could borrow you a live trap for the stoat. so long as i get the stoat alive.

[SycoPaff]

I have just discovered that i have an unwanted stoat visiting my garden.
The little ****** wont play ball and sit long enough for me to shoot it.
I need to get rid before my birds start breeding and before the stoats breed and give me a bigger problem.
Any ideas as to the best trap to use that will do the job ?
they are protected! thats what flying high says! (he thinks!)

[Harrisii]

they are protected! thats what flying high says! (he thinks!)

stoats aint protected at all. they are classed as vermin. however, i love them and respect them for what they are. amazing wee predators. agility is second to none and a wonder to watch.

[Berkut]

A small tunnel with a standard Fenn trap inside should do the trick.Find the most likely points in your garden it will enter and set it there or you might be better putting a couple round the perimeter of your aviaries.
If a stoat wants access to your aviaries it would walk the perimeter first and would walk through any tunnel as a matter of course. You can leave the trap set all year round incase of subsequent visits from other stoats once you have caught this one.
Regards.

[Ben C]

stoats aint protected at all. they are classed as vermin. however, i love them and respect them for what they are. amazing wee predators. agility is second to none and a wonder to watch.


Harrissi.....There was a 10 minute short about them on the other night. Mesmerising little chaps. The footage was second to none and the shots of them falling about in a family unit and hunting were awesome.

I still trap one though if it was going to eat my eggs.

[Goldie]

A small tunnel with a standard Fenn trap inside should do the trick.Find the most likely points in your garden it will enter and set it there or you might be better putting a couple round the perimeter of your aviaries.
If a stoat wants access to your aviaries it would walk the perimeter first and would walk through any tunnel as a matter of course. You can leave the trap set all year round incase of subsequent visits from other stoats once you have caught this one.
Regards.

How you doing mate?
You have seen the garden and front yard, not so easy to establish where its coming from but it was running around the yard this morning.

[Harrisii]

Harrissi.....There was a 10 minute short about them on the other night. Mesmerising little chaps. The footage was second to none and the shots of them falling about in a family unit and hunting were awesome.

I still trap one though if it was going to eat my eggs.

absolutely mate. no doubting that, but not by poison thats too cruel.

yes, they are intrueging wee things. i love seeing them and watching them they are great. i often encounter them whilst out ferreting and bolt a few over the course of a season. i dont fly the hawks at them as i love to see them and i am happy to share my rabbits with them.

[Agent D.]

A small tunnel with a standard Fenn trap inside should do the trick.Find the most likely points in your garden it will enter and set it there or you might be better putting a couple round the perimeter of your aviaries.
If a stoat wants access to your aviaries it would walk the perimeter first and would walk through any tunnel as a matter of course. You can leave the trap set all year round incase of subsequent visits from other stoats once you have caught this one.
Regards.

top advise, i've caught stoats and mink using fenn traps around my hawks accomodation, local farm shop or even gun shop should have them. they do give you peace of mind all year round specially in the frosts. catch-alive i found aren't as successfull n quite big and cumbersome, also what do you really want with a live problem stoat? remember they need to be checked every 24hrs by law. also a dead end to the tunnel and bait with chick or rabbit so the stoat has to pass over the trap to get to the bait. honestly think this is your best option.
u'd have to be a bit good with gun and watching the area for ages to get a result. good luck, (remeber to know safty catch off, nothing worse than finding a trap sprung and caught on the safty! (well maybe a kick in the knackers is worse))

[Hacker]

I remember shooting a weasel once with my remmy semi auto loaded with 12g 3" magnum shells.
It was by the pheasant rearing pen and ran towards me as i kept still, it came into approx 5 yds when i pulled the trigger!
There was not much left at all!:supz: :supz: :supz:
If you want a trap we sell them, just pm me m8.

[GM090158]

Warferin in a rabbits head?????

Bad Idea, highly illegal and anything could eat it!!!

[HawkMan]

stoats aint protected at all. they are classed as vermin. however, i love them and respect them for what they are. amazing wee predators. agility is second to none and a wonder to watch.
You had stoats didnt ya m8 ,
What they like to keep ,ive seen them in the wild and they move so fast its amazing .
They are classed as vermin in new sealand they cull them each year to keep there population down .
JB

[Harrisii]

You had stoats didnt ya m8 ,
What they like to keep ,ive seen them in the wild and they move so fast its amazing .
They are classed as vermin in new sealand they cull them each year to keep there population down .
JB

ive never had a stoat mate but always wanted one as a kid.
ive had weasels, mink, pure polecats and ferrets.
my weasels were tame and i could handle them no probs. fast?? oh my god.
absolutely brilliant. i used to bring them into the house and **** myself laughing at their antics. fabulous to watch. would bite my toes though. so slippers were the order of the day, no socks.

my mink were brilliant to watch too. they could run, jump, climb swim, dive, all within a few seconds such is their speed. awesome. i tried to train my mink to fetch things from the bottom of the pond. i would throw in a rubber door stop and the male would dive into the pond and retrieve it. i would give him a wee treat for it. but after a few times he lost interest, but would do it again the next day.

my pine marten died of old age and my badger cub had distemper.
but a stoat would be cool. i just love the weasel crew..
dont kill the stoat goldie!!

[Ben C]

Bad Idea, highly illegal and anything could eat it!!!


Fair enough...hence the ??????...........I stand corrected. :yawinkle: :yawinkle: :yawinkle:

[Out Hunting]

Either a Fenn, Magnum or Kania trap will do the job lurvley! best to buy a couple and you can then use them for rats. Get a copy of the BASC trapping guide its free and will give you relevent legislation, saves me too much typing.LOL:lol:

[NGuruve]

definatly a fenn mk4 would do the job just cover it up i.e in a tunel and put it along areas that the stoat will travel along eg. close to a fece or near some boundary

[Jack Merlin]

Either a Fenn, Magnum or Kania trap will do the job lurvley! best to buy a couple and you can then use them for rats. Get a copy of the BASC trapping guide its free and will give you relevent legislation, saves me too much typing.LOL:lol:

Good advice.

Falconers ought to have a few tunnel traps set next to pigeon lofts, aviaries, etc. BEFORE the problem arises.

Why? Rats explore new territory and lay scent trails where it is safe to go. If you put down a trap after the rats have moved in, it won't be scent marked so the rats won't go near it. Stoats and weasels are not so discriminating and you will probably catch those.

[Out Hunting]

Yes, thats right. Rats do exhibit a thing called neophobia (a fear of new objects) best if you are trying to catch rats to leave the traps set for a week to ten days and if you want use bait (under the treddle) this helps to get them familiar with it quicker.

Just a note, we used to catch stone martins in spring loaded leg holds (not in the UK) and found baiting under the treddle an excelent way to boost the catch! This is because the target trys to dig through the treddle to get the food and so dislodges it. May be worth a try, but remember it is always best if possible to 'pre-bait' with an un-sprung trap for a while first!

[Harrisii]

you guys are killing me with your trapping this and killing that.
stone martens. why would ye go and do that OH?? these things are so cool.

live traps are the way to go. live traps. catch and release.
there is one thing catching or killing non natives but killing native animals where alternatives are present is not ideal in my opinion.

[Out Hunting]

Stone Martins (yes they look 'nice' but so do squirrels, foxes and other mustlids) in France (they dont live in the UK!) when i was a keeper were as bad as foxes in decemating the local game population. trapping was prefrable to shooting as they are a small target at the distances seen.

Live trapping is ok but what are you going to do with it when caught, release it to cause someone else a problem? shoot it?, well what about the stress caused whilst it is in the trap? Drown it:twisted: ? well get ready to go to court!

if a weasle is causing a problem and near an avery/mews it needs killing ASAP, after all it is under the OGL!

[Joey]

i would use a dog or live trap

[Harrisii]

Stone Martins (yes they look 'nice' but so do squirrels, foxes and other mustlids) in France (they dont live in the UK!) when i was a keeper were as bad as foxes in decemating the local game population. trapping was prefrable to shooting as they are a small target at the distances seen.

Live trapping is ok but what are you going to do with it when caught, release it to cause someone else a problem? shoot it?, well what about the stress caused whilst it is in the trap? Drown it:twisted: ? well get ready to go to court!

if a weasle is causing a problem and near an avery/mews it needs killing ASAP, after all it is under the OGL!

stress caused in a live trap is a lot less of a worry than killing the thing. also. think of the stress, pain, torture you caused them when they were caught in a leg hold trap. whats worse.

yes. release it. there are areas where game keeping dont go on. nature reserves, etc. who is to say it would cause a problem??

this is the thing with game keeping. i got to admit i have a problem with it.
sure there is money at stake etc, and livelyhoods etc. thats understood.

but i cannot get my head around the idea of killing a native animal going about its business for the sake of non-native bird (pheasants) which are going to get shot anyway. confusing.

i just think other alternatives are there which should be exploited before gung ho killing of native wildlife. just my strong opinion.

[Berkut]

stress caused in a live trap is a lot less of a worry than killing the thing. also. think of the stress, pain, torture you caused them when they were caught in a leg hold trap. whats worse.

yes. release it. there are areas where game keeping dont go on. nature reserves, etc. who is to say it would cause a problem??

this is the thing with game keeping. i got to admit i have a problem with it.
sure there is money at stake etc, and livelyhoods etc. thats understood.

but i cannot get my head around the idea of killing a native animal going about its business for the sake of non-native bird (pheasants) which are going to get shot anyway. confusing.

i just think other alternatives are there which should be exploited before gung ho killing of native wildlife. just my strong opinion.
Harrissii,
Are you going to kill native species with a hawk or worse still are you going to kill native species with a non-native hawk , say a Harris Hawk. What if you fly a Harris and it kills a stoat. How do you stand morally with any of these situations.

[Harrisii]

Harrissii,
Are you going to kill native species with a hawk or worse still are you going to kill native species with a non-native hawk , say a Harris Hawk. What if you fly a Harris and it kills a stoat. How do you stand morally with any of these situations.

rabbits, squirrel and pheasants mate. that my main quarry.
i also take crow, rook and gull. yes native birds with a non-native bird.
but are they rare??

i encounter stoats regularly and always hold a bird on a bate, as stated on previous posts. i once had a male harris which took a stoat. i was gutted. so i bred some and released them in the area. just to make up for the loss.

[James_Falconry1]

stress caused in a live trap is a lot less of a worry than killing the thing. also. think of the stress, pain, torture you caused them when they were caught in a leg hold trap. whats worse.

yes. release it. there are areas where game keeping dont go on. nature reserves, etc. who is to say it would cause a problem??

this is the thing with game keeping. i got to admit i have a problem with it.
sure there is money at stake etc, and livelyhoods etc. thats understood.

but i cannot get my head around the idea of killing a native animal going about its business for the sake of non-native bird (pheasants) which are going to get shot anyway. confusing.

i just think other alternatives are there which should be exploited before gung ho killing of native wildlife. just my strong opinion.

when ur boss is on your back to produce numbers for paying customers or even more for his friends. YOu will do anything to get paid.

Live catch aint much good they will just annoy some1 else. Send it to a nature reserve where another animal wil eat it. This is the real world not "Animals of farthing wood" where the kestrel snuggles up to the mouse at bed time. Its betther dead than stuck in a live trap for hours on end.

Jimmy

[Harrisii]

[QUOTE= Its betther dead than stuck in a live trap for hours on end.

Jimmy[/QUOTE]

what would you rather get. 5 years in jail or the death penalty??

[James_Falconry1]

what would you rather get. 5 years in jail or the death penalty??


Thue ****in death penalty if i had the choice of a 12x12 box for 5 years

[Harrisii]

Thue ****in death penalty if i had the choice of a 12x12 box for 5 years

you would on be suicide watch mate. lol.

no sorry, i am sure that aint true. i think its more, 12 X 10 plus an exersize yard for an hour a day. aint that bad. you even get tele' and dont have to pay council tax. may even get yourself a stray pigeon for company. ye never know your luck. then you have the showers to look forward to on a friday.lol

[Berkut]

rabbits, squirrel and pheasants mate. that my main quarry.
i also take crow, rook and gull. yes native birds with a non-native bird.
but are they rare??

i encounter stoats regularly and always hold a bird on a bate, as stated on previous posts. i once had a male harris which took a stoat. i was gutted. so i bred some and released them in the area. just to make up for the loss.
I didn't realise stoats were rare.Certainly not in my neck of the woods.
Just as a point of interest my F Gos is totally ferret safe and still took a pure white stoat ( ermine I believe is the scientific name ) on Sunday without any encouragement whatsoever.

[James_Falconry1]

I didn't realise stoats were rare.Certainly not in my neck of the woods.
Just as a point of interest my F Gos is totally ferret safe and still took a pure white stoat ( ermine I believe is the scientific name ) on Sunday without any encouragement whatsoever.

There not rare at all. I see them at work at leat 3, 4 times a week. normally getting the arse end of a 12b if my boss is around. Or the dogs bring me one as a present.

Jimmy

[Berkut]

There not rare at all. I see them at work at leat 3, 4 times a week. normally getting the arse end of a 12b if my boss is around. Or the dogs bring me one as a present.

Jimmy
Good Man. That,s what I like to hear.Doesn,t half take a while for the stench to clear of the hawk though.They are rather smelly little b**tards.

[Out Hunting]

stress caused in a live trap is a lot less of a worry than killing the thing. also. think of the stress, pain, torture you caused them when they were caught in a leg hold trap. whats worse.

yes. release it. there are areas where game keeping dont go on. nature reserves, etc. who is to say it would cause a problem??

this is the thing with game keeping. i got to admit i have a problem with it.
sure there is money at stake etc, and livelyhoods etc. thats understood.

but i cannot get my head around the idea of killing a native animal going about its business for the sake of non-native bird (pheasants) which are going to get shot anyway. confusing.

i just think other alternatives are there which should be exploited before gung ho killing of native wildlife. just my strong opinion.


1. Leg hold traps not used in the UK-legislation prohibits.

2. Most nature reserves are nature reserves because of rare or indangered flora or fauna inhabiting. introducing flora/fauna into an enviroment which is equally ballanced WILL cause an un-ballance, however small resulting in an upset up the food chain.

3. Most narure reserves are managed, even RSPB ones for deer, foxes, mustlids, corvids, etc....

4. Gamekeeping. you would not be able to hunt pheasants, partridge (yes even english, because if it was not through the introductions for shooting they would have died out in the 1960's but i assume you know the reasons behind the decline of the grey partridge)

5. Corvids and Gulls ARE NATIVE and going about their native business, but you hunt them??

6. The culling of a fox, corvid, mustlid for game protection, look what happened to grouse on Langham (OK not quite the same, but the same principals).

7. What happens when your non-indiginous bird escapes and becomes wild, should someone shoot it because it shouldnt be there, or what if it goes down on a kill and gets killed by a fox or mink, they are only doing what comes naturally!

:lol:

[Out Hunting]

8. if stoats were rare they wouldnt be on the WCAS as open

(sorry just read that)

[Out Hunting]

DERRRRRR......

that should be WCSA:!:

LOL

[Euan]

The biggest advantage, as I see it, of a live trap is discretion. Even if you are going to kill what is trapped, you can release next doors cat/your lost ferret whatever else you might trap accidently unharmed.

I'm sure nobody here could be called squeamish at the thought of killing things, but it doesn't have to be the only option.

If all you've got is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.

[Hacker]

If you place your traps correctly, you should not be catching next doors cat!
Guidance is available on trapping from orgs, like B.A.S.C

[Harrisii]

1. Leg hold traps not used in the UK-legislation prohibits.

2. Most nature reserves are nature reserves because of rare or indangered flora or fauna inhabiting. introducing flora/fauna into an enviroment which is equally ballanced WILL cause an un-ballance, however small resulting in an upset up the food chain.

3. Most narure reserves are managed, even RSPB ones for deer, foxes, mustlids, corvids, etc....

4. Gamekeeping. you would not be able to hunt pheasants, partridge (yes even english, because if it was not through the introductions for shooting they would have died out in the 1960's but i assume you know the reasons behind the decline of the grey partridge)

5. Corvids and Gulls ARE NATIVE and going about their native business, but you hunt them??

6. The culling of a fox, corvid, mustlid for game protection, look what happened to grouse on Langham (OK not quite the same, but the same principals).

7. What happens when your non-indiginous bird escapes and becomes wild, should someone shoot it because it shouldnt be there, or what if it goes down on a kill and gets killed by a fox or mink, they are only doing what comes naturally!

:lol:

whats your point caller??

it would take me too long to answer all your points. so i aint gonna bother.
i may do later cause you are talking guff mate. oh **** it.

1) leg hold traps not allowed in the uk. so what. you used them to catch stonemarten in france. dont that count??
2) nature reserves. what ****. balanced, ok. but if you release 1 native animal into a native land it will upset the balance. know what your talking about before you open it. nature reserves are "managed" to maintian any balance. you telling me if i release a wild live trapped stoat into a nature reserve, the whole balance will be upset. laughable.
3) no brainer
4) couldnt give a toss.
5) yes, i already mentioned they were native. what do you hunt?? native stoats?? native stone martens??
6) look what happened to the pine marten, the polecat, the otter, the gos, buzzards, pere's, harriers. know your facts mate. native predators have been persecuted for centuries and still now for game rearing etc. so dont talk to me about your pheasants and your partridge. couldnt give a flying one.
7) didnt even mention my bird going missing. again not relevant.

oh the rare thing. i was talking about the stone marten if you look back over the posts you will see. leg hold trapping stone martens in france. but its ok as it was in france. not here. still the killing of a native animal (in france) for non-native pheasants. in a non humane manner.

best wishes, Harrisii.

[Berkut]

Hope you never have to rely on the good will of gamekeepers to fly your bird with an attitude like that.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Ellis]

Am amazed at some of your guys attitude !!! would have thought you guys would have more respect for little predators such as stoats and weasels, fantastic creatures. To brag about shooting weasles into pieces from 5yds away with a shotgun...... get a life.

Birds of prey are viewed as vermin in some quarters !! we would all be bouncing up and down if the pigion fraternity were discussing macabre and downright sadistic methods of riding the area of them.

If there is no other option than to kill such animals, to protect your birds, then fair enough. But to gloat about it like school yard bullies in the mutual appreciation society is frankly imature.:roll:

[Hacker]

Hey ellis m8,
I take it you hunt bop`s or if you intend to you will never discuss the catching of quarry with no other human being.
It was a recollection, not bragging, something that you cannot see on a monitor, the expression.
The usual banal critisism due to a lack of inputting any interesting comment on the subject.

[Ellis]

No Hacker M8, dont hunt birds of prey at mo, am humbly trying to learn the ropes, but intend to. I watch and learn on this forum and dont put opinions on about falconry issues, as frankly they are probably worthless !!

However i have hunted, ferreted, lamped lurchers etc and yes shot a little (although not very well). This wasn't a falconry issue. I did't like the tone of the thread and added my opinion, hope this doesn't mean ive got to worry about being blown away with glee from a range of 5yds :lol:

[Harrisii]

Hope you never have to rely on the good will of gamekeepers to fly your bird with an attitude like that.
Wake up and smell the coffee.

i dont have to rely on game keepers and as for good will. never met a gamey who had a good attitude towards raptors. i dont have a bad attitude either.
i just respect all wildlife and espescially small native carnivours. i am entiltled to my opinion and i shall voice it. you are entitled to yours and i welcome yours also. however, i would appreciate if you didnt talk to me like you are a school teacher and i the pupil. i am fully awake my friend.

well said ellis. i am glad others have some respect for our native wildlife and see past the 'predator? kill it' attitude.

[Hacker]

Thought as much!
The weasel i shot just happened to of killed a lot of poults in our rearing pen and yes, i was exhilirated when i shot it as it had made a dent in our pockets and didn`t really give a ****** for the welfare of the poults it had killed in cold blood.
The thread was about the removal by destructive or non destructive means of a very formidibal predator whose main aim in life is to kill it`s prey.
I happened to recall one such encounter and outcome

The fact is that the stoat will bite and bleed the prey item to death without asking it if it would rather pop down the cafe for lunch!

How are you going to cope when you get a bop and it has caught some quarry which when you get there will still be alive usually and will need you to dispatch it immediately

Nature`s cruel son, open your eyes.

[Hacker]

Oh! one other point.
How can anyone that hunts bops condone someone for killing a predator because it is looked upon as vermin and then kill other birds and animals with their bop for sport.
That is hypocrosy in it`s purest form!

[Harrisii]

Thought as much!
The weasel i shot just happened to of killed a lot of poults in our rearing pen and yes, i was exhilirated when i shot it as it had made a dent in our pockets and didn`t really give a ****** for the welfare of the poults it had killed in cold blood.
The thread was about the removal by destructive or non destructive means of a very formidibal predator whose main aim in life is to kill it`s prey.
I happened to recall one such encounter and outcome

The fact is that the stoat will bite and bleed the prey item to death without asking it if it would rather pop down the cafe for lunch!

How are you going to cope when you get a bop and it has caught some quarry which when you get there will still be alive usually and will need you to dispatch it immediately

Nature`s cruel son, open your eyes.

this thread stinks like a polecat. we all have our own opinions of these things. i particularly like them and would never intentionally do one any harm.
some of you guys love to kill them for fun or to protect your livestock etc. fair enough.
just one thing hacker. the weasel didnt kill your poults in "cold blood" it did it to survive. and stoats dont beed their victims to death. thats dracula your thinking of. remember. these creatures have been on this isle for over 10,000 years and have survived thus long and prospered. they deserve respect.
they are the most awesome predators lb for lb on the planet.

but if you guys revel in talking of killing them then its a shame, and as ellis said, very immature.

[Hacker]

this thread stinks like a polecat. we all have our own opinions of these things. i particularly like them and would never intentionally do one any harm.
some of you guys love to kill them for fun or to protect your livestock etc. fair enough.
just one thing hacker. the weasel didnt kill your poults in "cold blood" it did it to survive. and stoats dont beed their victims to death. thats dracula your thinking of. remember. these creatures have been on this isle for over 10,000 years and have survived thus long and prospered. they deserve respect.
they are the most awesome predators lb for lb on the planet.

but if you guys revel in talking of killing them then its a shame, and as ellis said, very immature.
Trouble is with you two is that i did not question your opinions, you critised mine!
Just tell me truefuly,:lol: If you were ever faced with the scenario of coming down in the morning and finding your favourite bop dead with a little cuddly stoat picnicing on it, what would YOU DO!

[MattSpar]

Trouble is with you two is that i did not question your opinions, you critised mine!
Just tell me truefuly,:lol: If you were ever faced with the scenario of coming down in the morning and finding your favourite bop dead with a little cuddly stoat picnicing on it, what would YOU DO!

I too like stoats and weasels, a pair of stoats had a litter of kits in a wood near me and I spent many hours watching them with the greatest of pleasure, but if this happened to me I'd trap it of course, without a second thought.

[Ellis]

Seemed to have missed my point Hacker. I dont blame you for killing it..... neither do a blame the stote for acting like a stote, or the weasle for acting like a weasle. Ive already said i'd kill it if there was no other way, but..... i would be a little saddened having to kill what i regard as a fab little creature. The tone of the post annoyed me and i replied.

Dont see why this should make me some lilly liverd liberal, i can despatch an animal thank you ! (and i dont even cry:yawinkle: )

Infact i once borrowed my uncle franks elephant gun and shot a field mouse from 3 yards ....... is that macho or what :supz:

[Berkut]

i dont have to rely on game keepers and as for good will. never met a gamey who had a good attitude towards raptors. i dont have a bad attitude either.
i just respect all wildlife and espescially small native carnivours. i am entiltled to my opinion and i shall voice it. you are entitled to yours and i welcome yours also. however, i would appreciate if you didnt talk to me like you are a school teacher and i the pupil. i am fully awake my friend.

well said ellis. i am glad others have some respect for our native wildlife and see past the 'predator? kill it' attitude.
Times are changing and a lot of gamekeepers I know have a refreshing attitute to raptors and allow me onto their land to hunt.

[Hacker]

Berkut,
Some sense is spoken on here then.
I also part keeper our shoot with others and obviously love bops.
If the blighted view of most keepers killing bops was correct then how would one explain the population explosion of fine bops like the Sparrohawk and Buzzards.
You should try and make the local keeper a friend and not a foe, as he could make some good hawking ground available to you.

[Berkut]

Berkut,
Some sense is spoken on here then.
I also part keeper our shoot with others and obviously love bops.
If the blighted view of most keepers killing bops was correct then how would one explain the population explosion of fine bops like the Sparrohawk and Buzzards.
You should try and make the local keeper a friend and not a foe, as he could make some good hawking ground available to you.
Hacker,
Spot on mate. I get invites from keepers with the Gos after pheasant and partridge and with the Goldies after hares. They are a great bunch of guys.

[Harrisii]

Oh! one other point.
How can anyone that hunts bops condone someone for killing a predator because it is looked upon as vermin and then kill other birds and animals with their bop for sport.
That is hypocrosy in it`s purest form!

condone means to overlook, forgive, or disregard. think you got it wrong.
condem is the word you were looking for.

another thing. because i respect and like stoats and weasels and dont like to hear of them being killed but hunt with hawks dont mean i am a hypocrit. i hunt pest species. think you got that wrong too.

you dislike small predators. but you fly a winged predator. does this mean you are a hypocrit too?? what about every other falconer out there who enjoys wildlife. are they hypocritical too?? love it one day, kill it the next??

and another thing. i did not get personal with you, offer me the same courtesy.
now i have to go and feed my weasels.

oh, and if i did find a stoat on my hawk in the morning i would take a picture.
that would be worth something. unlike your views and opinions to me. lol.
thankfully all my mews are secure and tight and i dont envisage any predator problems. in fact i feed the foxes which regularly visit my garden with no fear that they will take my birds. i also used to house my weasels in my mews, and still house my ferrets there. yes, this is farthing wood.

[Maxwell]

BOP enthusiasts seem to be split firmly into 2 camps.
Those who have a love of nature and enjoy being part of that - training their birds to hunt closely as to how nature intended and the kills being used in there entirety to feed the hunting pack and those who are intent on 'killings' whether that be shooting, trapping, poisoning ,chasing after it with dogs or flying a BOP at it.
Personally I would like to think that the majority of falconers do have respect for wildlife and also the prey that they fly at. Smaller predators surely also command respect - very sad to hear that some get such a thrill from blowing away our native predators.
Personally I don't leave the matter to chance - my avairies and mews are well protected - incidentally I lost a couple of my ducks recently to some predator but don't sit there armed to the teeth, lurcher at the ready with traps set all around, each to their own I suppose. I think I'll let him/her be after reading this thread - it's not struck again - if it does then I'll live trap it and relocate it!


Ellis - don't be put off, your opinion is as welcome as anyone elses!

[Harrisii]

Hacker,
Spot on mate. I get invites from keepers with the Gos after pheasant and partridge and with the Goldies after hares. They are a great bunch of guys.

glad your experiences are good. and hope they continue to be.
the fact you are a pt gamey shows in the fact you dislike small predators.

i am a conservationist and have worked with the RSPB, SWT, local authorities etc. and i can tell you that i have seen many first hand accounts of poisoned harriers, goldies, gos' and kites and all at the hands of game keepers. but if you are telling me things have changed then who am i to argue. after all, they are a great bunch of guys.

[Out Hunting]

whats your point caller??

it would take me too long to answer all your points. so i aint gonna bother.
i may do later cause you are talking guff mate. oh **** it.

1) leg hold traps not allowed in the uk. so what. you used them to catch stonemarten in france. dont that count??
2) nature reserves. what ****. balanced, ok. but if you release 1 native animal into a native land it will upset the balance. know what your talking about before you open it. nature reserves are "managed" to maintian any balance. you telling me if i release a wild live trapped stoat into a nature reserve, the whole balance will be upset. laughable.
3) no brainer
4) couldnt give a toss.
5) yes, i already mentioned they were native. what do you hunt?? native stoats?? native stone martens??
6) look what happened to the pine marten, the polecat, the otter, the gos, buzzards, pere's, harriers. know your facts mate. native predators have been persecuted for centuries and still now for game rearing etc. so dont talk to me about your pheasants and your partridge. couldnt give a flying one.
7) didnt even mention my bird going missing. again not relevant.

oh the rare thing. i was talking about the stone marten if you look back over the posts you will see. leg hold trapping stone martens in france. but its ok as it was in france. not here. still the killing of a native animal (in france) for non-native pheasants. in a non humane manner.

best wishes, Harrisii.

You talk absoloute b0ll0cks bud!

so the decline of the peregrine was down to persicution was it. LOL, Not down to the effects of DDT through the food chain and shell thining.
The Otter was hunted out of existance in the UK hu? even thoug the volantary ban on Otter hunting came in well prior to the otters extinction, nothing to do with mink which fill the niche better i suppose! Suppose the grey squirrel will get blamed for killing out the reds, not the parasitic flea which it carries. Suppose the Signal is killing out native Crayfish, bla bla

Do you know the breeding cycle of stoats? one may not harm, if its a male!

Oh Hold on, i know the response,,,,,'you talk ****' or 'do i give a toss'

clever bloke!

Wish i was as intelligent as you, and could only answer with very limited knowledge (if any).

Oh yes, didnt even think you had a bird, never mind you loosing one!! you talk like one of those people who gets his information out of a book not through experience, and can not answer if it is not in your book!

:supz:

[Talib]

I have just discovered that i have an unwanted stoat visiting my garden.
The little ****** wont play ball and sit long enough for me to shoot it.
I need to get rid before my birds start breeding and before the stoats breed and give me a bigger problem.
Any ideas as to the best trap to use that will do the job ?

Why bother catching/killing the stoat???
If you believe your bird of prey or other livestock quarters are not secure enough to stop a stoat gaining access then it is your livestock housing you should be making more secure if you think stoats could be a problem.

Talib

PS If a stoat can gain access to your BOP's then so can mice... and they could have been previously poisoned by your neighbour - Ben C's scottish cousin Jockie McC... and guess what happens when your BOP's eat them???
Of course, your neighbour could be poisoning the mice because he is overrun with them... maybe because some short-sighted individuals have killed off all the stoats???

[Maxwell]

:supz: Why bother catching/killing the stoat???
If you believe your bird of prey or other livestock quarters are not secure enough to stop a stoat gaining access then it is your livestock housing you should be making more secure if you think stoats could be a problem.

Talib

PS If a stoat can gain access to your BOP's then so can mice... and they could have been previously poisoned by your neighbour - Ben C's scottish cousin Jockie McC... and guess what happens when your BOP's eat them???
Of course, your neighbour could be poisoning the mice because he is overrun with them... maybe because some short-sighted individuals have killed off all the stoats???

Good call.:supz:

[Hacker]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!Your bops are kept in airtight containers then!
My mews have bars that let the birds see out and the light in.
You obviously are now grasping at very thin straws as have you seen how small a hole a mouse can squeeze through.

As for killing only "pest " species i must commend you, but in who`s eyes are they a pest, not the local ornithologolist.
As for condone instead of condem i agree i made a mistake, but then i am only human.
Glad you were immersed enough in the reply in order to find something else to critisise.
Glad it entertains you.
Got to go and catch the stoats in my livetrap and then release them in someone elses backyard , Ring, Ring, "Yes," answering phone, "Bring your bloody gun as a stoat has just killed my chickens" says the local farmer!

[Harrisii]

You talk absoloute b0ll0cks bud!

so the decline of the peregrine was down to persicution was it. LOL, Not down to the effects of DDT through the food chain and shell thining.
The Otter was hunted out of existance in the UK hu? even thoug the volantary ban on Otter hunting came in well prior to the otters extinction, nothing to do with mink which fill the niche better i suppose! Suppose the grey squirrel will get blamed for killing out the reds, not the parasitic flea which it carries. Suppose the Signal is killing out native Crayfish, bla bla

Do you know the breeding cycle of stoats? one may not harm, if its a male!

Oh Hold on, i know the response,,,,,'you talk ****' or 'do i give a toss'

clever bloke!

Wish i was as intelligent as you, and could only answer with very limited knowledge (if any).

Oh yes, didnt even think you had a bird, never mind you loosing one!! you talk like one of those people who gets his information out of a book not through experience, and can not answer if it is not in your book!

:supz:


no where in my post did i mention that the decline of the peregrine was due to persecution. i stated that it did and does get persecuted.

no where in my post did i mention the otter was hunted out of existance.
the otter has never been extinct in this country. it was and has been persecuted is what i said, its fact.

no where in my post did i mention anything about red or grey squirrels.

no where in my post did i mention anything about crayfish.

as for my limited knowledge on these matters.

i am a countryside ranger working for a local authority, for the past 5 years.
i did my honours degree in animal biology 2:1 at napier university, edinburgh.
i did a degree in applied ecology at falkirk college for further and higher education.
i have also completed an H.N.C in countryside management
i also have an H.N.C in habbitat surveying for nature conservation.
i have worked with organisations such as the R.S.P.B, Scottish wildlife trust, and scottish natural heritage.
i am a breeder of pure polecats for the conservation of the species in britain.
i have been practising falconry for a relatively short time of 3 years.

but yes i have no intelegence, and i get all my answers out of a book.
just as well as i can read you like one. my friend.

[Out Hunting]

Sorry Harrisii

I should have read your public profile first!:prayer:

[Hacker]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i dont want to argue with you any more.
now go away and find something to do.
__________________
my first bird was a kestel. what did it catch??
why rabbits of course.

Harissii,
If you wish to critisise other members of this forum and then wish to stop, then do that, don`t pm me with more of your!

[Harrisii]

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!Your bops are kept in airtight containers then!
My mews have bars that let the birds see out and the light in.
You obviously are now grasping at very thin straws as have you seen how small a hole a mouse can squeeze through.

As for killing only "pest " species i must commend you, but in who`s eyes are they a pest, not the local ornithologolist.
As for condone instead of condem i agree i made a mistake, but then i am only human.
Glad you were immersed enough in the reply in order to find something else to critisise.
Glad it entertains you.
Got to go and catch the stoats in my livetrap and then release them in someone elses backyard , Ring, Ring, "Yes," answering phone, "Bring your bloody gun as a stoat has just killed my chickens" says the local farmer!


what age are you hacker???
i already told you. go away and dont bother me.

[Ellis]

Well played Harrisii :goodman:

That stoat caused more problems on here the he ever will in the garden :roll: :lol:

[Hacker]

Flatmates?

[Harrisii]

Well played Harrisii :goodman:

That stoat caused more problems on here the he ever will in the garden :roll: :lol:

pmsl.
yeah ellis, this theroetical stoat is a real troublesome wee fellow.

i have said enough on this f*ckin stoat so i shall be retiring to my lounge to put on my ermine slippers and puff on my pipe.
best wishes everyone.

[Hacker]

Fairs, fair lads,
Oh! did you make the slippers from the stoat that your Harris killed.
pmsl

No really truce lads:supz: :supz: :supz:

[Harrisii]

Fairs, fair lads,
Oh! did you make the slippers from the stoat that your Harris killed.
pmsl

No really truce lads:supz: :supz: :supz:

no hacker, i made them out of the wee b*stard stoat who ate my harris in her mews. gggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!

pmsl.
best wishes.

[Goldie]

Why bother catching/killing the stoat???
If you believe your bird of prey or other livestock quarters are not secure enough to stop a stoat gaining access then it is your livestock housing you should be making more secure if you think stoats could be a problem.

Talib

PS If a stoat can gain access to your BOP's then so can mice... and they could have been previously poisoned by your neighbour - Ben C's scottish cousin Jockie McC... and guess what happens when your BOP's eat them???
Of course, your neighbour could be poisoning the mice because he is overrun with them... maybe because some short-sighted individuals have killed off all the stoats???

Well that just about sums up someone who doesn't know their arse from their elbow. You obviously know nothing about stoats and how resourceful they can be. It would appear you have no idea as to how breeding pens are constructed either. Good ventilation is required and generally open top roofs are the norm.
I have yet to see a breeding pen that could be described as 100% vermin proof and to achieve such a thing would not be cost effective and likely to be detrimental to the birds that were kept in it.

For what its worth to those that are interested, i am using a live trap cage to solve the problem. What happens there after remains to be decided but it will be leaving one way or another

[Bill]

Some info on warfarin
Anticoagulant Rodenticides - A Success Story

In the 1940s, with the development of warfarin and later pindone, a new class of rodenticides became available which substantially improved chemical control of rodents and was less hazardous than some older acute rodenticides. These new compounds are anticoagulants and their mode of action involves reducing the ability of blood to clot so that exposed animals bleed internally and die.

Anticoagulants are cumulative poisons and act relatively slowly compared to most acute rodenticides; rodents typically die several days after initial ingestion if anticoagulant consumption has been steady. The usually slow onset of undramatic toxic effects allows anticoagulant baits to be formulated with very low concentrations of active ingredient, which avoids their being repellent. Typically, rodents feed repeatedly on the rodenticide bait without becoming bait shy. In the case of warfarin and other so-called first-generation anticoagulant baits, multiple feeding over several days is usually necessary before a lethal dose accumulates in the rodent.

If the problem is identified or diagnosed early, the slow action of the first-generation anticoagulants allows more time for treatment of poisoned non-target species than with most non-anticoagulant materials. Most important, vitamin K1 is an effective antidote for anticoagulant poisoning. For these reasons, and because of their effectiveness, anticoagulants have become the most widely used type of rodenticide. An estimated 95% of all chemical control of commensal rodents in the United States is now conducted with anticoagulants, and application of most acute rodenticides is restricted to professional use.

and more
http://www.liphatech.com/vetguide.html

[OwlsFoot]

put a fen trap in a tunnel and pee a freshly caught rabbit on the treadplate will draw him in have had 8 since last year with fens

[James_Falconry1]

i dont have to rely on game keepers and as for good will. never met a gamey who had a good attitude towards raptors. i dont have a bad attitude either.
i just respect all wildlife and espescially small native carnivours. i am entiltled to my opinion and i shall voice it. you are entitled to yours and i welcome yours also. however, i would appreciate if you didnt talk to me like you are a school teacher and i the pupil. i am fully awake my friend.

well said ellis. i am glad others have some respect for our native wildlife and see past the 'predator? kill it' attitude.


I know of three keepers, 2 prof one amateur that are very interested in falconry and one of them flys hawks. Hope you never need any help or your hawk ****s off on his land cause with that attitude id tell you to swing your lure at the ****ing gate. Game keepers have kept field sports going.

[Talib]

Well that just about sums up someone who doesn't know their arse from their elbow. You obviously know nothing about stoats and how resourceful they can be. It would appear you have no idea as to how breeding pens are constructed either. Good ventilation is required and generally open top roofs are the norm.
I have yet to see a breeding pen that could be described as 100% vermin proof and to achieve such a thing would not be cost effective and likely to be detrimental to the birds that were kept in it.


I thought that the design of BOP breeding pens had come a long way since making them out of old doors off demolition sites with an odd bit of waney lap thrown in, obviously this standard of housing is still persisting in some parts of the UK.

Talib

PS You need to get out more if you have never seen 100% vermin proof BOP breeding pens... you must be visiting only the cheapskate breeders.

[Talib]

Some info on warfarin
Anticoagulant Rodenticides - A Success Story

In the 1940s, with the development of warfarin and later pindone, a new class of rodenticides became available which substantially improved chemical control of rodents and was less hazardous than some older acute rodenticides. These new compounds are anticoagulants and their mode of action involves reducing the ability of blood to clot so that exposed animals bleed internally and die.

Anticoagulants are cumulative poisons and act relatively slowly compared to most acute rodenticides; rodents typically die several days after initial ingestion if anticoagulant consumption has been steady. The usually slow onset of undramatic toxic effects allows anticoagulant baits to be formulated with very low concentrations of active ingredient, which avoids their being repellent. Typically, rodents feed repeatedly on the rodenticide bait without becoming bait shy. In the case of warfarin and other so-called first-generation anticoagulant baits, multiple feeding over several days is usually necessary before a lethal dose accumulates in the rodent.

If the problem is identified or diagnosed early, the slow action of the first-generation anticoagulants allows more time for treatment of poisoned non-target species than with most non-anticoagulant materials. Most important, vitamin K1 is an effective antidote for anticoagulant poisoning. For these reasons, and because of their effectiveness, anticoagulants have become the most widely used type of rodenticide. An estimated 95% of all chemical control of commensal rodents in the United States is now conducted with anticoagulants, and application of most acute rodenticides is restricted to professional use.

and more
http://www.liphatech.com/vetguide.html

Unfortunately, most problem rats and mice in the UK are now warfarin resistant and you will find that the local council ratcatcher (pest control technician) will be laying down far more potent poisons than warfarin... and your bird of prey will be dead long before you get to the vet's door - no matter how much phytomenadione (vitamin K) you pump into it.

[Goldie]

PS You need to get out more if you have never seen 100% vermin proof BOP breeding pens... you must be visiting only the cheapskate breeders.

Nick Fox, Ian Garland, Richard Hill and Peter Gill, AKB to name a few.
Somehow i don't think so.

[Hacker]

Talib,
how do you stop a mouse entering a seclusion aviary chamber with open top.
No twaddle, just how?

[Talib]

Nick Fox, Ian Garland, Richard Hill and Peter Gill, AKB to name a few.
Somehow i don't think so.

Last time I visited Fox's and Gill's places nearly all their breeding pens were constructed of concrete block, with concrete floors, and fully enclosed roofs. Which makes them just about as vermin proof as you can get them, unless the local vermin are using jack-hammers.
So how come you maintain that "open top roofs are the norm" you must have walked around the above breeder's places with your eyes shut to come up with that assumption.

Talib

[Talib]

Talib,
how do you stop a mouse entering a seclusion aviary chamber with open top.
No twaddle, just how?

Use 1/2" (12mm) square mesh netting... or 3/8" mesh if you think pygmy shrews are going to be a problem.

Talib

[Goldie]

Last time I visited Fox's and Gill's places nearly all their breeding pens were constructed of concrete block, with concrete floors, and fully enclosed roofs. Which makes them just about as vermin proof as you can get them, unless the local vermin are using jack-hammers.
So how come you maintain that "open top roofs are the norm" you must have walked around the above breeder's places with your eyes shut to come up with that assumption.

Talib

Well its certainly 3 yrs since i was at Gills place, but it was only November that there was what looked like snow in one of NFs pens, maybe i was mistaken and it was some other white powder, after all he does breed some "high" flyers :)