You must be yokeing

[BlackShaheen1]

just wondering how many people d yoke there doc bifor giveing them to there birds .some people i know do and some dont.

[Saker-Sucker]

I think you've just answered your own question:rolleyes: , in general I don't bother unless, when I pull the legs off for pick up peices the yolk sack comes out, then I cut it out, as it make a mess on the lure for the Saker.

[Sean]

sometimes i do, sometimes i dont, about 50 50

[Renton]

Feeding on the glove, less mess if they are de-yolked first. Opinions differ as regards cholesterol content of yolk when fed in excess. When moulting, as she is now, my FHH gets around half of her diet with whole DOC and the rest is quail and rabbit; she seems to thrive on it. Plus some Raptor Essentials on a regular basis.

[Coedhirion]

I have always been lead to believe that the "anti vitamin" in egg yolkes was as bad for BOPs as for people and other animals. Therefore if yolk is fed in excess it actualy does harm. I was taught to feed only 1 or 2 yolks per week. Horses should have a max of 6 eggs per week and dogs 3. Ferrets it dosn't appear to harm, tho some say that if fed only doc it can and they get "fat necks"

[Tim Laycock]

Depends what I want the food to do for my hawks attitude the next day

[Tooker]

Glove yes, otherwise no.

[Big JoeJoe]

Use Chicken egg yolks to bulk myself up when I want to put on weight lot of fat in yolks but also more protien than whites only use whites when I cut up but nutritionally they aint that good. Use the same principle with my birds regarding yolks feed only the amount I think they need to maintain hunting weight.

Cheers Joe

[Coedhirion]

Depends what I want the food to do for my hawks attitude the next day
Yes true ...that's what decides which days it is unyoked. Or a little drop of rat or quail for the extra buzz factor :lol:

[Tim Laycock]

Who washes chick?

[Coedhirion]

Who washes chick?
mmm ....did I miss sumit here ???? :rolleyes:

[Blaze]

I dont!...but whats the crack with doing it? :roll:

[Puzo]

Who washes chick?


No Iv'e never washed a chick, "well not a day old one".I usualy squeese the
watery yolk out & feed the thicker part of the yolk, it contains carrotene
which helps to give the cere & legs a yellow colour.I don't feed a lot of DOC.

[Tim Laycock]

I sometimes use washed chick instead of washed beef or other meats.
Very handy for sharpening accipiters
Just skinned and yolked shick soaked in water for a couple of hours.
Best to use bottled water for the washing of any meat if it is for a hawk.

[Coedhirion]

No Iv'e never washed a chick, "well not a day old one".I usualy squeese the
watery yolk out & feed the thicker part of the yolk, it contains carrotene
which helps to give the cere & legs a yellow colour.I don't feed a lot of DOC.

Don't wash DOCs, wet them if I want to make sure the bird has had enough water under certain circumstances.
as for the carrotene, depends what bird you fly if you want nice yellow cere and feet :yawinkle: some times I prefer the nice blue ones !!

[MickeyDredd]

I usualy squeese the watery yolk out & feed the thicker part of the yolk, it contains carrotene which helps to give the cere & legs a yellow colour.

Is this not a myth - seen plenty wild hawks with nice yellow legs and I dont suppose they get too many DOCS.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

I agree Mick
Two young peregrine chicks in a nest in scotland had bright yellow fets, brighter then many of ours, also male raptors color up yellow when breeding condition starts, without more acsess to egg yolk

[Coedhirion]

Is this not a myth - seen plenty wild hawks with nice yellow legs and I dont suppose they get too many DOCS.
Not sure that it is, think if you feed too many to say a Saker their legs go a funny colour

[Puzo]

when I have fed DOC over a long period t does seem to have an effect. Wild
birds get a greater variety in their diet.I'm not saying egg yolk is solely responsible but
I do think it is a contributory factor

[Coedhirion]

I sometimes use washed chick instead of washed beef or other meats.
Very handy for sharpening accipiters
Just skinned and yolked shick soaked in water for a couple of hours.
Best to use bottled water for the washing of any meat if it is for a hawk.

Aaaaahhh.. washed chic as in ye olde washed beef idea !!!
Nope never, don't know any one who uses it. Regulate quantity and give small amounts of higher quality food, some times with a sprinkle of added extras. Never reduce quality. Reduce quantity of casting or give none at all for a very brief period, if there is a reason. That's about it.

[Peregrine1]

Got to agree with blackbird there, several gutted rinsed chicks fed to a hawk or falcon will keep the crop full, the metabolism fast increase appetite and there for motivate a flying hunting falcon or hawk. Needless to say its only a short term "tool" for getting a hawk into yarak or a falcon into hunting condition. I also use gutted skinned chicks when topping up a falcon when having a moderate feed of a kill, she can have a good crop feel contented. And hopefully back at flying weight soon. High grade food is fine but you cannot crop a hawk up on, and small rations can lead to a loss of appetite,
Hence a full crop of low grade food now and again keeps the crop and stomach Stretched. PLEASE NOTE RINSED OR WASHED FOOD IS ONLY SHORT TERM AND A FULL AND BALANCED DIET IS NEEDED TO KEEP A HAWK HEATHY
Regards
Colin

[Tim Laycock]

Always, Always reduce quality when triming condition and sharpening your hawks yarak!
Never reduce quantity before reducing quality, Lesser amounts greatly affect the way your hawk turns over its food

A hawk with a full crop of lesser quality meat one day will behave completly different to the same said hawk that has had a reduced ration of rich stuff in the same situation.
The effect it has on yarak the next day is palpable

Diet and its effective management are where a good deal of behavioural problems in raptors stem from!

Understand your hawks digestive track and you all but have the key that unlocks the door to success.

[Puzo]

I think one of the major causes of screamng in imprint birds in their 2nd yr or
later, is drastically reducing the quantity of food rather than the quality when
enseaming after the moult.

[Tim Laycock]

Agreed, Hawk feels empty, Acts like it!

[Hells99]

This is a fascinating and informative thread, learning loads reading this! Thank you to everyone who's posted and please keep it coming!

Helen :)

[Jack Merlin]

Good thread. Some wise comments on here.

Nice yellow legs and feet on my goshawks -- but I never feed DOC! Can't stand the mess and I can't believe they are good for a hawk longterm.

Flying hawks fed on top quality meat will always perform better.

I always try to use fresh warm pigeon for calling off and find a goshawk will readily jump to the fist from most other meats if it realizes you are offering pigeon.

But, yes, I do use washed beef -- because it works. The washing apparently dissolves out sugars in the blood but not other nutrients, so hawks are "hungry for blood" after a few days while the digestive system is kept working.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Who washes chick?


I do and always have.Use it to fine tune and also as a alternative to bulk feeding with rabbit.

[Hacker]

I believe there was a thread on here about the dangers of washing food for bops as it can seriously upset the level of water contained in there systems and which their bodies can cope with.
I think it was Sprout that pointed out the dangers and not 100% sure but there was also an artical about why it can be dangerous to the birds?
Better to feed a meat like rabbit etc to give a fuller crop without putting on weight.

[Osiris]

i sometimes feed my hawks and falcon chicks that are de-yoked, sometimes i leave the yolk in. but i make sure that they dont get chick with the yolk in too often. I've known a bird die for being fed too much 'whole' chicks.

[Tim Laycock]

I believe there was a thread on here about the dangers of washing food for bops as it can seriously upset the level of water contained in there systems and which their bodies can cope with.
I think it was Sprout that pointed out the dangers and not 100% sure but there was also an artical about why it can be dangerous to the birds?
Better to feed a meat like rabbit etc to give a fuller crop without putting on weight.

Your last statment is not right!
There is no problem with water and quantity!
The problem is that tap or other non sterile water can carry harmfull bacteria into your hawks system.
There is no problem with water and it is a very usefull tool in itself for fine tuning.

[Kentish Falconry]

I use washed chicks during training and I also use them on the day before a field meet. I have in the past used washed beef but these days I only use washed DOC also skinned.
The results speak for themselves
Good thread this one, well done BlackShaheen1
ATB
Terry :supz:

[Pitbull]

Your last statment is not right!
There is no problem with water and quantity!
The problem is that tap or other non sterile water can carry harmfull bacteria into your hawks system.
There is no problem with water and it is a very usefull tool in itself for fine tuning.


what do you fill your baths with then if tap water is such a danger, Rain water is not sterile either.

[Trappa]

I always squeeze yolk out. It turns BOP's legs that awful yellow colour.

[Tim Laycock]

what do you fill your baths with then if tap water is such a danger, Rain water is not sterile either.

Put F10 in it you dummy :roll: :!: ;-)

<btw> my imprint does not bath for your information

[Saker-Sucker]

Put F10 in it you dummy :roll: :!: ;-)

<btw> my imprint does not bath for your information


Nor does my Saker................I have to physically spray her with a garden spayer, I also use a dilute F10 mixture.:supz:

[Jack Merlin]

Put F10 in it you dummy :roll: :!: ;-)

<btw> my imprint does not bath for your information

Hawks should surely have water available 24/7, both to drink and to bathe in (....which is one of my concerns about high perches.).

I think you are being over fussy! Do wild hawks drink sterile spring water? I don't think so.

Some dirt never hurt anyone and helps build up a resistance to common diseases -- within reason, of course. Exposure to too much infection will obviously result in the immune system being over-whelmed. Too little and the animal/person does not have the opportunity to build up a resistance.

This subject came up on another list. One experienced falconer pointed out that eyries are usually pretty filthy after the wild eyasses have left and they are generally disease free.

Makes me shudder to think of the various types and quantities of manure I must have consumed over the last half century or so!!<vbg>

Apparently, the latest theory about the increase in asthma in children is the lack of ordinary dirt and too much central heating!

[Pitbull]

Nor does my Saker................I have to physically spray her with a garden spayer, I also use a dilute F10 mixture.:supz:

as someone that has and maybe never will have a saker or falcon come too that this is all madness too me ( but a whole new thread ) maybe ignorance on my behalf.

SORRY

[Saker-Sucker]

as someone that has and maybe never will have a saker or falcon come too that this is all madness too me ( but a whole new thread ) maybe ignorance on my behalf.

SORRY

Without sounding racist, I think it's more to do with her genetics. They originate from central and eastern Asia, so probably a sand bath would be better prefred!!! He clutch sister has had 2 baths in the last 18 months. Mine has got wet but I think that was more by accident than a proper bath.

[Tim Laycock]

Derry, my imprint always has water available in her loft.

This water is rainwater with F10 added to prevent waterborne clostridia!
A killer!!!
The spring water is reserved for the washing of meats!
I hope this clears things up:rolleyes:

[Pitbull]

cheers for that, (sorry for hijacking the thread ) but what did you do before F10, can we not be too clinical that it gets too the point that any little infection could be damaging. Ive only heard of F10 being used for odd occassions, rather than constantly.

[Coedhirion]

what do you fill your baths with then if tap water is such a danger, Rain water is not sterile either.

So what happens if your bird stops for a drink in the stream or gets a bath while trying to catch duck or something. Plus the number of kills in the bottom of soggy wet ditches??? I fill the bath with our spring water as we dont have a mains supply. Would be a bit worried if every thing was kept so sterile that the bird would build up no immunity to any thing. Tho admit I do agree in keeping everything as clean as poss. even my glove.

Interesting thoughts, tho.

[Tim Laycock]

Does not matter how much you try to promote doing everything you can for your charge there is always some that come along with the "What if" "cos for" "then why bother"

I dont know why I bother trying to promote good practice:rolleyes:

I might as well go and beat my head up the wall, At least I do everything within my power for my hawk and can be contented in this knowledge

[OutFlying]

What if the bottled water is made by Coca Cola from the tap:goodman: ?????

Jim :rolleyes: :lol:

[Pitbull]

Does not matter how much you try to promote doing everything you can for your charge there is always some that come along with the "What if" "cos for" "then why bother"

I dont know why I bother trying to promote good practice:rolleyes:

I might as well go and beat my head up the wall, At least I do everything within my power for my hawk and can be contented in this knowledge

sorry BB just that Glasier never mentioned F10.... only that especially falcons can travel miles too find water. and that fresh water was sufficient. But I gather this is old hat.

[MattSpar]

Does not matter how much you try to promote doing everything you can for your charge there is always some that come along with the "What if" "cos for" "then why bother"

I dont know why I bother trying to promote good practice:rolleyes:

I might as well go and beat my head up the wall, At least I do everything within my power for my hawk and can be contented in this knowledge

Never mind BB. Remember Churchill's credo... Whatever happens, KBO!! (Keep ******ing On!!).

[Tim Laycock]

What if the bottled water is made by Coca Cola from the tap

:roll: :rolleyes: :lol:

[Tim Laycock]

sorry BB just that Glasier never mentioned F10.... only that especially falcons can travel miles too find water. and that fresh water was sufficient. But I gather this is old hat.

These days it is what it is PB........Sufficient for the use of, Thats all
There is better to be had thanks to modern science:supz:

[Tim Laycock]

Never mind BB. Remember Churchill's credo... Whatever happens, KBO!! (Keep ******ing On!!).

We will fight them on the beaches etc etc:supz:

[Pitbull]

These days it is what it is PB........Sufficient for the use of, Thats all
There is better to be had thanks to modern science:supz:
But it is also modern science that has made things that sterile that we now have even worse bugs that can't be stopped as people have no immune system. Everyone to their own.

[Hacker]

Your last statment is not right!
There is no problem with water and quantity!
The problem is that tap or other non sterile water can carry harmfull bacteria into your hawks system.
There is no problem with water and it is a very usefull tool in itself for fine tuning.
BB True there is nothing wrong with water in itself but the point is that by washing the food given to your hawk you are unnaturally increasing it`s water intake.
The hawk has no choice because it wants to feed so instead of having the choice of drinking you are in effect forcing water into it.
I will have a look and see if i can dig out the info but too much water in it`s system is detrimental to it`s health.

[Tim Laycock]

If people want to live like they are in the dark ages in every aspect of their lives then thats up to them:rolleyes: :wink:

[Hacker]

BB,
Here`s the link about water and how it affects bop`s

http://www.ibr.org.uk/dirv4/page152.html

[OutFlying]

My last 3 accipiters all imprints, drink great quantites of water each day from their bath, also bath most days - never experience a problem with excess water intake. I've also used washed chick, you remove excess moisture by drying them off on paper towels - washing is used to remove the blood etc not to increase water intake.

OF.

[Tim Laycock]

Interesting :shock:
Never had any problems with the amounts of water I have used on foods so something must be right.
The rest of her water intake is down to her.

[Jack Merlin]

BB,
Here`s the link about water and how it affects bop`s

http://www.ibr.org.uk/dirv4/page152.html

Erm...I think it might be interesting to know how Mr Butterworth makes his living....

My birds are each equipped with a pair of kidneys which seem to do a pretty good job of getting rid of excess fluids....without the need for supplements.

[Sprout]

True, excess intake = more **** (or urates to be correct!) Water deficiency is FAR MORE DANGEROUS than excess.

[Sprout]

As to a point earlier about me quoting dangers of washed chicks I personally use washed chicks to lower condition but keep the birds metabolism ticking over. I NEVER use pigoen (too many diseases carried to be worth the risk especially fresh) although is safer if freezed for a few weeks although that doesn;t kill everything. AS far as washing chicks my point was not to leave it in water for too long - the water is a perfect environment for clostridia to grow, the practice of washing is not a problem. I don't think that washing DOC's will sufficiently raise water intake to cause a problem

[Tim Laycock]

Erm...I think it might be interesting to know how Mr Butterworth makes his living

Breeder and purveyor of raptor food supplements;)

[GlenCool]

i have read in one of my books that "grown on chicks" 7 day old chicks can be used as well whats there value and dose any one use them and do you de-yoke them???????????????????????

[Sprout]

Shouldn't be any yolk to de-yolk at that stage, should all be resorbed.

[GlenCool]

yea dont know why i put that bit , lol

but dose any one use them and whats there value.......

[SmilyScarab]

Hi all, we take the yolks out of ours as the yolk sack is actually full of cholestoral , and affects them as it does us, a friend of ours who fed his harris, chicks with the yolk , and his died of a heart attack and the vet said that it was due to the yolk it clogs the arteries like it would with you, i dont know whether this is fact but it seems highly likely.

[Sprout]

Birds are different to humans in that exercise will remove the cholesterol build up in arteries quite efficiently - that is why it is not always a bad idea to even fly breeding birds for just a few weeks to "clear the system" prior to breeding.