Vultures

[Pantherophis]

I'm thinking to buy (and fly) a vulture in the future, only got no idea which one.

Vultures of the new world (like Turkey and Yellow-headed) don't attract me.
I'm more for the old world vultures and at this moment I think on the Palm-nut Vulture (Gypohierax angolensis) and Egyptian Vulture (Neophron percnopterus). With the Hooded Vulture (Necrosyrtes monachus) I have the same as the new world vultures, don't like them so I perfer to don't keep them.
All other vultures (Gyps) are much bigger, more pricy and more dangerous (bitty).

So my question is, are Palm-nut Vulture's and/or Egyptian Vulture hard to train or should I watch for an other bird? Should they be imprint or parent-reared? How do you train them?
Also they seems to be both very rare and have no idea who have experiency with them here in Belgium.

I hope to get some good answers here.

[Tim Laycock]

What do you want it to do?

[Tooker]

I'm sure they had an Egyptian Vulture flying at the NBPC.

[Rio116]

i love vultures!!! I like the hooded and turkey vulture,i used to fly them at whipsnade,they were nice birds. I;m sure they had an egyptian at nbpc too

[Palmer]

I might be abit thick but what the diffence between new world vultures and old world vurltures?:confused:

[Tooker]

Old World = Africa
New World = South America / America

[Palmer]

Ok thanks:goodman:

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Old World = Africa (EURASIA ALSO)
New World = South America / America
Not quite right there matey. Geographically yes ish but! The new world vultures are more closely related to the Stork family than Raptors. Old world have a common "eagle type" ancestor.

[Palmer]

Which type are the bold headed ones?

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Both Old and New world have bald representitives. Which species do you mean in perticular? I personally like the Hooded, used to have a great one. Unfortunately lost her to a brain hemorage.

[Palmer]

I dont mean any in perticular was just wanted to know a bit more about vultures thanks alot!:supz:

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Many species are bald though this tends to be the larger and internal (Of carcass) feeding individuals. The smaller ones that havent got the equipment to break into large carcasses, tend to have some if not a great deal of head plumage. As flying birds they are great in the righjt terrain and **** every where else. The manning process can be fun with parent reared vultures as they tend to regurgitate. Imprints dont do this as often but require in the early stages regurgitated food.

[Pantherophis]

What do you want it to do?

Display flying. I think that's the only thing you can do with it except breeding.


Some things they told me about vultures.
New world vultures would better be imprint, else you have a great chance that you lose them when they smell a dead cat (or something else) while with imprint they will stay at you because they're more social to you.
Old world vultures would better be parent-reared. Because they were hunted by humans for many years (like many other birds of prey) they are afraid for humans and will there a great chance that they attack you if imprinted.

Also I wanted to know more about their character, the old world vultures will bite more and be aggressive or is that an individual thing were you should have luck with?

Of looks the Egyptian and Palm-Nut Vulture attract me the most of the small vultures. So I had prefer to take them, the Hooded is also an alternative but is on a 3rd place let me say.
How is the availability of Egyptian and Palm-Nut Vulture? Till now I only know Falconiformes (Netherlands) to sell them.

I'm also curious how you will train them. Is it similar with buzzards?

[Tooker]

The Black Vultures at the NBPC wouldn't fly....they were good at walking tho! ...needed two people to get them to take off!!

[Jules]

We fly a male Palm Nut Vulture, male Turkey Vulture and female & male Hooded Vultures in display. They are all parent reared. We have found all three species quick and fairly easy to train in a similar way to training a hawk. Vultures are very bright and this makes them better/easier than most hawks. Both the Hooded Vultures and Palm Nut have lovely natures, very gentle and easy to fly (our 10 yr old son flies them). The Turkey Vulture is very much a one man bird. Even though parent reared, Turkey Vultures become very attached to people quite quickly. Even if they are wild injured, they very quickly form a bond with the people caring for them. Our male Turkey Vulture can be quite grumpy and gives a nasty bite when he feels like it but other times can be fine. I remember seeing an imprint Turkey Vulture at NBPC a few years ago and all it wanted to do was bite the handler - very aggressive. It was advertised for sale very soon afterwards! We also fly two White Backed Vultures and have found these more aggressive and difficult than the smaller vultures. Hope this helps.

[Pantherophis]

That is exactly what I search Jules. Only now that info about the Egyptian Vulture now.

[OutOnAWing]

egyptian vultures are quite hard to get hold of and can be quite pricy. with the bird flu about they are proberly hard to get hold of.we fly a hooded and have just got another,that seems to have settled down quite quickley.Palm nuts are not that easy to find,but you could try herne breeding centre in belgium

[Pantherophis]

Thanks Jasper for the private message about your experiency with Egyptian Vulture. How it now looks I'm going for the Palm-nut Vulture, Egyptian Vulture will be to expensive for the moment but who knows what time will bring. I've also some time left before I can buy one to think and research more about it.

Thanks all for the answers and don't doubt if you know some breeders.

[Miguel]

Most important things have already been written... Old World vultures are better if parent raised, cause they descend from eagles, they evolved from them, unlike the new old ones that are more related to storks then any bop, so old world vultures tend to be more agressive. Specially large species.

Egyptian vultures are pretty cool, but their price is around 8000€!! Palmnut vultures are much cheaper, but I don't know how their diet works as they feed mainly on palm nuts in the wild, they're more vegetarian then anything else, but I'm sure there are people here that know more about that. I think in captivity they can be fed the regular bop diet...

Good luck!

P.S.: I think Herne Breeding Centre doesn't have any small vultures at the time but you better have a word with Chris just to make sure...

[Jules]

We feed our Palm Nut Vulture on chicks on a day to day basis plus occasional mice. We also bought some frozen palm nuts for him which we defrost then soak in warm water to soften a little. He absolutely loves them but we tend to limit the number of them he has because, although they are only small, they cause his weight to rocket. The Turkey Vulture likes them as well.

[Pantherophis]

I've heard the the Palm-nut vultures in Falconiformes live only on meat. Not heard it from the center so can be that's not true.

I've also contacted Herne Breeding Centre. Captive breed of Palm-nut vultures would not be found, only import. He also knows one for sale, untrained.
Of the Egyptian vultures he thinks to find Captive breed of 2006 and you have to count €7000/vulture.

Somebody else who can tell me someting about the breeding/import of this species? Herne tells Palm-nut vultures will only be import but a while ago I heard that here in Belgium a breeder is/was of Palm-nut vultures.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

The Welsh Hawking centre breeds Palm Nut Vultures.

[Miguel]

There's only a few people breeding palmnut vultures, just like hooded vultures, CITES has a quota of bird that can be trapped and imported since they're common in the wild...
I always prefer to get captive bred birds, even if they're a little bit more expensive.
It's normal that captive palmnut vultures, are fed with meat... I've seen other species being fed like that. I also feed our honey buzzard with regular bop diet, and somtimes some mealworms as a complement.
I knew that egyptian's would be around 8000€... It's really hard to find them less then that. I once found one for 5000€ but it had a tumor on his head and I guess it would be risky to get that bird...

Good luck on your search. Tell me if you find any good deals (after chosing the ones you want...)

[Pantherophis]

I'm planning to buy several other birds and that has his costs. So I have to less money at the moment to buy an egyptian, meaby it even will stay a dream.

So I'm gonna try to earn some money to buy a palm-nut next year.

[Miguel]

Do you have an exhibition?? What cool birds are you getting? :)

[Pantherophis]

I've already a female HH, male rock eagle owl and a female kestrel.

I've already ordered a male gyr/pere for display and probably there will also come a male pere for exterminate pigeons (or something else).
I'm also searching for a smaller owl.

Later a male HH, RT and a vulture.

[Pantherophis]

I will chose the palm-nut vulture.
Jules has already helped me good. Now I only want to know how the others keep/kept their vulture they fly.

The one tells me that you have to keep their feet warm, other say it are more the wingtips that have hindrance of the cold weather. Same with keeping them outside during the winter of place them in an indoor aviary.
Who can help me?

[Wingless]

Hi

Ive worked with and flown many species of old and new world vultures from condors and eurasion black vultures to hoodeds and american black vultures. Its correct that hand reared new world vultures are prefferable to parent reared, but ive found that old world vultures eventually become aggressive whether parent reared or hand reared, you get the odd friendly one! They are all best free lofted, leg problems can be common if tethered, not only that, but if tethered you tend to get bitten in the hands and face more often, especially with the larger species!

If you want them to soar you have to either rely on very good thermals or very good updrafts from a steep hill. My brother was out in Greece with a colleague training some white backed vultures and hoodeds for a permanent display team at attica park, the vultures there learned to soar about a fortnight after being let off the creance, the place is very hot in the summer and they naturally did it, here in sunny uk ive flown various gyps, some as old as 15 and they've never spent more than 10 minutes in the air! You'll be lucky in a bad climate like the uk if a vulture soars 3 or 4 times. A friend with a centre in spain has much more luck with getting their vultures to soar on an almost daily basis. One species that comes to mind is the white headed vulture, these are very bouyant and i've seen these doung regular circuits in displays even on a bad day.

Palm nut vultures - they feed on a massive variety of food in the wild, including alot of crabs, snails, carrion and palm nuts. Ive seen a bird kept in a zoo for 5 years being fed only on palm nuts (the keepers couldnt believe it when i threw in some chicken and the bird went crazy for it!) but here in the uk have kept them on a diet of day old chicks, mice, hamsters and rats for years also.

Personally i would want a hooded, white back or white headed to begin with. The other great thing about vultures is that if you end up with several you can fly the lot at once, which is a real crowd pleaser! Also as you mentioned watch their feet, ive seen even condors with toes missing because of frost bite!

Good luck, keep a hold of ears, eyes, nose, lips and fingers!

Robbie

[Zam]

Hi

Ive worked with and flown many species of old and new world vultures from condors and eurasion black vultures to hoodeds and american black vultures. Its correct that hand reared new world vultures are prefferable to parent reared, but ive found that old world vultures eventually become aggressive whether parent reared or hand reared, you get the odd friendly one! They are all best free lofted, leg problems can be common if tethered, not only that, but if tethered you tend to get bitten in the hands and face more often, especially with the larger species!

If you want them to soar you have to either rely on very good thermals or very good updrafts from a steep hill. My brother was out in Greece with a colleague training some white backed vultures and hoodeds for a permanent display team at attica park, the vultures there learned to soar about a fortnight after being let off the creance, the place is very hot in the summer and they naturally did it, here in sunny uk ive flown various gyps, some as old as 15 and they've never spent more than 10 minutes in the air! You'll be lucky in a bad climate like the uk if a vulture soars 3 or 4 times. A friend with a centre in spain has much more luck with getting their vultures to soar on an almost daily basis. One species that comes to mind is the white headed vulture, these are very bouyant and i've seen these doung regular circuits in displays even on a bad day.

Palm nut vultures - they feed on a massive variety of food in the wild, including alot of crabs, snails, carrion and palm nuts. Ive seen a bird kept in a zoo for 5 years being fed only on palm nuts (the keepers couldnt believe it when i through in soem chicken and the bird went crazy for it!) but here in the uk have kept them on a diet of day old chicks, mice, hamsters and rats for years also.

Personally i would want a hooded, white back or white headed to begin with. The other great thing about vultures is that if you end up with several you can fly the lot at once, which is a real crowd pleaser! Also as you mentioned watch their feet, ive seen even condors with toes missing because of frost bite!

Good luck, keep a hold of ears, eyes, nose, lips and fingers!

Robbie


Very interesting reply! I know very little about Vultures, nice to hear about a different species on the forum:supz:

[CoyoteOutlaw]

We have an egyptian, a king, 2 turkey vultures and an andean condor, we also have pretty harsh winters so the tropicals are brought in for the winter, but the others seem to do fine with a heat lamp or a heated perch. We got lucky with the egyptian, we were offered her after her mate died, she has an incredible temperment, the best thinig is to give her eggs and watch her crack them open! The king vulture is a beast!! You must be spot on when working with her or you will get into some trouble! The young imprint turkey vulture is the one that I'm training for free flight demos and he is doing amazingly well. The andean condor is amazing, he's an incredible looking powerful bird, but is also hilarious! good luck in your search, hope you find what you're looking for!

[Pantherophis]

Thanks all for the info. I hope I have one next year. First training some other already ordered birds and earn some money.

[Gunther]

I'm thinking of maybe buying a hooded vulture but i'm thinking I'm not having a very good place here to let them soar. Can you teach them to go high with a kite is my question? So when the bird is high mayb then he will soar.

greetzz

[Miguel]

I would say it's not easy to do it with a kite... Vultures don't have the same flight skills as a falcon... Not impossible tough. It would help if you have a high spot to release him from, and see if he gets on a thermal.

Anyway there's a lot of other stuff you can do with hooded vultures besides let them soar around.
I've seen one "soaring" on a wind machine, it was great!!

[Jammu]

I've seen the eurasian black vulture fluying in hellenthal. A real great bird!
They let him go in the mornign demo at about half past 10. it flew of quickly and didn't came back befor the last demo at 15.00 hours. Really funny bird!
I heard that this bird wouldn't soar in the beginning, they dropped it out of a hot air balloon at about 500 mtrs high. I dont Know if the story with the balloon is wright, but that it soars is true!

Greetz
Jammu

[Gunther]

thanks. But the problem is that I don't have here a high spot or I have to climb in a tree or so :) And I will not rent a hot air balloon just for the bird getting to soar :d

[Miguel]

Yeah I saw that bird on a TV documentary... They dropped a poor imprinted condor from the ballon, he didn't had other chance but to soar!

The main problem about training vultures to soar, is the one Jammu talked about, once they're in the air, they can be unpredictable. They can come down during the show, or many hours after that, and on your show or miles away.
It can be done, I have a friend that trained 3 vultures (griffon) to soar for a movie, it took him some time, and the bird were imprinted on him.
Also if you want them to soar it's easier to raise their weight in order to make them less focused on the trainer, if by one side their prone to soar, one the other they're less interested in what you have to offer, it's a matter of finding the right balance...
Like I said before, I would find some other behavior to do with the hooded. They're great birds to work with (audience interaction, flights overhead, etc.)

Good luck!