How to bring Imprints in to condition???

[Hawkmaster]

Well it is that kind of time again chaps and I am going to try the female Gos again this year. I would like to know what your experiences are, to go about bringing both males to donate semen and making females ready for accepting it?

I know I mentioned the Gos, but we can make it to cover all birds.

[Hawkmaster]

POSTS DELETED!

Right people, lets keep it real. No smart comments!
Too MUCH banter in the threads.
Get down to the subject and there are loads of other threads for small talk!

[BlackShaheen1]

seriously try and get hold of nick fox video but i dont know if it is the same with a gos.its training modual 3 ithint? imprints and insemination that is the best i can do .... ps where is your sence of humor

[MattSpar]

I must agree with HM. Let's have something constructive.

[GosFlyer]

theres some footage on dave jones vidio regarding how he serves his female gos with semen, thats imprint gos one. a lad i once had a male imprint off took me to see his female after she had gone past the receptive stage and she would of took your head off but when coming up to laying she was like a broody bantam.:rolleyes:

[Hawkmaster]

ps where is your sence of humor
All over this site unfortunately in EVERY thread there is almost, but I really lost it after thinking about the bandwidth we waste due to mindless, useless chit chat, when the site was created for guidance in falconry and the enlightment thereof.

I must agree with HM. Let's have something constructive.
Thanks mate, I know this will help many on here. We have tried this before, but due to people arsing about, it scared off the real experts and people with knowledge because they just do not want to deal with boneheads or silly comments ALL the time!

Previous thread were from highly regarded people like Varmint and Billy Casper! Go have a look and see how it ruined things.

[JayHawk]

HM, i don't really understand what you are asking, do you mean AI, anyway either way i agree with what you mean lets get some sort of constructive debate/answers on here cummon everyones lets have your 2-bits.i know i want to learn more about all aspects of our great sport....................!!!!!


jay

[Hawkmaster]

OK I will try again.

I have a Female Goshawk, I want to know the best way to condition her, treat her, or what to do, to get the best from her to get her ready for the breeding season, and accept AI from me.

We can also however talk about bringing a male into the same frame of mind to easily get him to donate semen.

[Kentish Falconry]

All over this site unfortunately in EVERY thread there is almost, but I really lost it after thinking about the bandwidth we waste due to mindless, useless chit chat, when the site was created for guidance in falconry and the enlightment thereof.


Thanks mate, I know this will help many on here. We have tried this before, but due to people arsing about, it scared off the real experts and people with knowledge because they just do not want to deal with boneheads or silly comments ALL the time!

Previous thread were from highly regarded people like Varmint and Billy Casper! Go have a look and see how it ruined things.

Hi Paul,
I said last time we had a thread of this nature that I would give you all some of my limited experiance at the right time at the moment I have too many other things occupying my tiny brain. I will answer questions as best i can but not for another week or two, you just started the thread too early.
So long as we can keep away from talking about production from tribreds I don't think there will be any trouble this time around. Billy Casper is the best man to deal with AI in Goshawks also Ian Accipiter No1 I think could help as well, I can throw no light on this subject as I have never tried to do it.
ATB
Terry:supz:

[Shaun Byrne]

I know **** all compared to BC etc but I think firstly, with any species, you need a quality well adjusted imprint to start with.

[Hawkmaster]

I know **** all compared to BC etc but I think firstly, with any species, you need a quality well adjusted imprint to start with.

Aah well, as many of you know mine was a total mal-imprint, but it looks like things have turned around now and I seem to have been blesses with a new bird;)

OK first of all then, what should her weight be as fat as possible?

[GosFlyer]

theres some footage on dave jones vidio regarding how he serves his female gos with semen, thats imprint gos one. a lad i once had a male imprint off took me to see his female after she had gone past the receptive stage and she would of took your head off but when coming up to laying she was like a broody bantam.:rolleyes:

have you missed this post or just chose to ignore it. why no comments do you not like dave jones vidio or have you not seen it,:rolleyes:

[Hawkmaster]

Yes I saw it but it is missing loads of info.

A bit like take the keys and drive this F1 car to someone that never has before and yes I did intend to say keys for an F1;-)

[Tim Laycock]

My imprint is a complete F**k up Muppet but she is starting to stand as a brown bird 8-) (At killing weight)

Bottom line.......Just like ladies, if you dont put in the quality time they are unlikley to give you the "Good Stuff" :wink:

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

I have a small experiance to chear if it can be of any help.
Gosses seem slightly different then falcons, they tend to switch from "killing you trough the wire/bars" to "come in and make loooove to me baby" within a few days.
Make sure she is on fat weight and in a imprint aviary with no disturbence from things she dont like, otherwise outside interference can supress the hormones. Have a nest shelf and make sure you have a lot of sticks (lalandie is brill as it is evergreen) in with her.
I would never try to puch a female goshawk, you are the male, females are renowened for killing males, so take it gentle, always play on her rules (just like in any marrige ;) ).
When she starts o show signs of liking you...... play with her, call to her, bring small amounth of food (freshly killed and good vaiarity is good) servel times a day, if she aloud you to do pluck it infront of her and feed her bits with your fingers. Try to encouruge her to build a nest, pick up sticks, call her and bring them to the nest shelf, build a nest for her and everyday go in and put more sticks in the nest etc...
The more you interact (as long as she accept it and you dont push her) the better. Dont try to put your hand on her back, dont try to stroke her, wait with all that untill she is inviting you to do it.
You might already know all this, if so, at least I tryed.

[Tim Laycock]

Agreed, dont put your hand on her back until she wants you to!

You will get it big style :twisted:

[Hawkmaster]

Great and thanks Sara that make more sense now I have gone through almost all you said but could not understand why she just wanted to kill me all the time. I will now not push it with her and hopefully we will see more of an invite this time?

What about with males what does one do with them??

Thanks again Paul

[Tim Laycock]

How is her behaviour Paul?
Is she flaring her coverts and "echupping" to you yet?
Here is mine

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/rospen006.jpg

[PeregrinesUK]

How is her behaviour Paul?
Is she flaring her coverts and "echupping" to you yet?


Is your gos from a line that usually stands and breeds as brown birds?

[Tim Laycock]

Not as far as I know but it must be the top quality upbringing :shock::rolleyes: :lol:

In the pen she is a lover not a fighter :heart:

[Tim Laycock]

In the third pic she had just dropped her tail, cant seem to get any flange shots :shock:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/roz009.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/roz003.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/roz002.jpg

[Tim Laycock]

Taken just now :D
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/more002.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/more001.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/more003.jpg

[MickeyDredd]

BB

I think she wants you ;)

have you organised any of the good stuff for her this year?

[Hawkmaster]

Mine is not doing anything at the minute and seem a bit scared of everything. I am taking her weight down a bit she may be a bit high I have been told.

I got mine to do all that last year but would not come that close she would just kill me.

I thought if they drop feathers they are past laying?

See confused!:rolleyes:

[PeregrinesUK]

have you got a nest ledge in there with her bb and some twigs and things might be worth a go she is obviously a good imprint in condition and brows birds breeding in not uncommon i know tommy has done it for a few years in a row...hawkmaster from what i understand about imprint female goshawks they hate you untill there ready to accept you so she may still be coming in to condition have you tried taking freshly killed foods to her wouldnt reducing her weight have an adverse affect you being the food provider? just a though

[Hawkmaster]

Just what I have been told and the logic is sound too.
If she is keener she is more inclined to want to take food from me?

Does anyone know the breeder of my bird, I think off the top of my head it is Mr G Thompson?

[Tim Laycock]

Mike, thats the problem m8, its getting hokd of the "juice" :lol:
Im not too bothered if she breeds this year but it would be nice;)

Been playing in the nest for a week or two, its full now

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/fedup011.jpghttp://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/feup007.jpg

[Tim Laycock]

Paul, if she is not still keen to take your food presents Im not suprised she wants to kill you m8 :twisted:

currently you are surplus to her requirements ;)

Tiercels have to condition the female for breeding or they end up brown bread, its similar for us "Larger tiercels" :lol:

[MickeyDredd]

No pain, no gain;) :lol:

[PeregrinesUK]

It seems there is a fine line there maintaining her weight in order to stimulate her through food passing/courtship and her becoming hungry... i think the fresh varied kill offering will also help

[Hawkmaster]

I will try that too thanks.
She look keener today, although I know I should be in there more.

[Tim Laycock]

I make 5 visits a day for about five mins

[Hawkmaster]

Just took her her food and it has now started. I just love that chirping but not sure the neighbours do?:lol: She still wants to attack me though.

[PeregrinesUK]

do you take her lots of little offerings or one large offering a day?

[Hawkmaster]

I used to do one lot at a time, but knew for this year I had to go the smaller and more often route, but had made too fat to even respond.

It is hard to be there all the time as she just wants to murder me.

[Hawkmaster]

Today she kicked in after bringing her her little meals. It was later in the day. She seemed to becon me over and wanted me in with her. She started chupping and bending down and was a changed girl and I got a bit too happy with it all and got nailed.:(

[Tim Laycock]

How does it feel to be a tiercel gos Paul :lol:

Is she looking at you with her head upside down?

When she wants come contact she will come to you, bont burn the cake by trying to cook it too quick :wink:

[Kevin Massey]

ooooo Claret:lol:

typical female...think your getting somewhere...only to get shot down:roll:

[Shaun Byrne]

You lads are braver than me, stuff going in with one of those big females!!

Do you not interact through bars until they are in full condition? After all you wouldn't just lob a male in with them 5 times a day and hope she doesnt kill him? Just asking, I know less than nothing about imprint Gos's.

[Kentish Falconry]

How does it feel to be a tiercel gos Paul :lol:

Is she looking at you with her head upside down?

When she wants come contact she will come to you, bont burn the cake by trying to cook it too quick :wink:

Time for a new Male Gos M8 she just killed that one :twisted:
And now she has got a taste of your blood she knows your edible lol

ever heard the saying Slowly, Slowly catch de Monkey?

[Tim Laycock]

I never stopped going in five times a day when the season ended, had no aggression to speak of at all.

Shes my sex kitten :shock: :lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

I never stopped going in five times a day when the season ended, had no aggression to speak of at all.

Shes my sex kitten :shock: :lol:

Now you've done it, you'll be next!!:lol: :lol:

[Tim Laycock]

Nah m8, Face binds are last years news :yawinkle: :lol:

[John Stockdale]

hi guys just reading coments with much intrest my female is a first year imprint and shes been going through the motions for about two weeks or so she migth be nerly as far on as yours bb, she starts calling at about 5.30 in the morning and carries on every time she sees me.

[John Stockdale]

also there seems to be a lack of info on male imprints and conditioning them for donating have we all gone masive female mental.....and given the males the cold shoulder.

[NightOwl]

my male has been head bobbing for the last few days but no sound from him. he has been turning his back to me an flaring his coverts. i was going in regular with him at first but was told to keep out by a friend and let the male come to me. what are all your thoughts on this.

[John Stockdale]

I carnt rely say but it may sound about right because you need him to come to you to donate but surly some of the other guys migth be able to shed some light. my female will always come to me she shows know aggrestion just bobs her head upside down nibles my arms and fingers and chucles like mad.

[Tim Laycock]

hi guys just reading coments with much intrest my female is a first year imprint and shes been going through the motions for about two weeks or so she migth be nerly as far on as yours bb, she starts calling at about 5.30 in the morning and carries on every time she sees me.

I have my pen in total darkness until 9:30am at the monent.
The shutters are opened up then and in the late afternoon the lights come on until about 11:30pm then they are turned off and the shutters are closed.

It keeps the neighbours quiet and ensures that I am her sun and her moon if you follow my meaning

[Gosman_2]

my male has been head bobbing for the last few days but no sound from him. he has been turning his back to me an flaring his coverts. i was going in regular with him at first but was told to keep out by a friend and let the male come to me. what are all your thoughts on this.
hi nightowl if u want to know how to get seamen off him speak to colin asquith

[Tim Laycock]

Her cloaca is now swolen to double this size and she has a full brood patch.
She is standing hard and pulling like crazy!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/stand001.jpg

[John Stockdale]

I have thought about going down simalar lines to yourself with lighting exct.but neibours arnt rely a problem and she seems to be doing well as she is ill try for some pics tomorow.

[John Stockdale]

Her cloaca is now swolen to double this size and she has a full brood patch.
She is standing hard and pulling like crazy!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/stand001.jpg
mines not that far on.

[Tim Laycock]

Five times a day m8, she is rampant :yawinkle:

[John Stockdale]

Five times a day m8, she is rampant :yawinkle:
are you going to inseminate this year.

[John Stockdale]

what do you guys think with regards to breeding from first year birds.

[Tim Laycock]

If I get the semen then definatly,
Jastreb did it last year and got a female and a tiercel from his brown female.

[NightOwl]

hi nightowl if u want to know how to get seamen off him speak to colin asquith
spoke briefly to colin couple of weeks ago. he said he goes in with his male but he knows people who stay out all together. this male has had three owners in his short life so don't know if this may affect the bond etc.
he definately seems more interested since i have kept out from there so will just have to see. would like to get some out of him as tuckers female is ready to go very soon.

[HawkMan69UK]

bb someone is selling gos seman on ibr site

[HawkMan69UK]

Finnish Goshawk semen available Tel Keith on 01443 755916 (South Wales) (200410308)

[Tim Laycock]

Cheers Gary, Its a 5 hour trip down for me though m8 :(
Good to be able to fall back on it though :supz:

[NightOwl]

today is the first time the male has come and displayed on the front perch right next to me. he then flew to the nest and started building then to the floor displaying and bobbing. then he flew to the nest and brought a chick to me which he paraded in front of me - presumably to show me what a good provider he will be. he shouldn't be long now surely. fingers crossed.

[Tim Laycock]

Sounds good m8, Exellent :supz:
(I wish you lived in yorkshire :lol: )

[Gosman_2]

my gos has laid in the past by now though the last year or 2 she has got later and later the thing im worried about is she has gone right off the boil,any body elses gos not in condition yet?

[Goshawks00]

First time here guys and glad to see this conversation going on. I've bred a few goshawks now for say 12 years and most of this is good stuff. A quick suggestion to who evers bird is wearing it's jesses , take them off as they will tangle in the nest and can pull eggs /chicks of the nest if you get that far. Contrary to what is said or the way I interput it, a well made female IMPRINT goshawk can and should be handled as much as possible, even all year long with much stroking, lifting of feet, scratching etc. She should already see you as a big part of her life because of the hunting relationship you have with her. They are imprints they were( or should have been ) raised that way.
As far as putting hands on their backs if they are bowing, and spreading coverts showing you the "pink thing" by all means GENTLY put you hand on her back , wail like hell :>), and gently wiggle her tail side to side ( ever see a gos breed?). After a few seconds gently push her forward "a little" as you would when finnishing your business ( those that don't understand must not have reached puberty yet so I won't explain further). Then a bit more chupping, do some house work , as in nest building ( women love a guy that is good at repairing the house), a bit of food ( shows you are a good provider) and be on your way. Do this as often as you can . I've gotten away with doing this just a couple times a day because of other birds that need attending to but 7-10 a day is not to many.
Remember the better the lover the more love you get!!
Barry

[Tim Laycock]

A quick suggestion to who evers bird is wearing it's jesses , take them off as they will tangle in the nest and can pull eggs /chicks of the nest if you get that far.


Thanks for the advice Barry, Im well aware of the pitfalls, not my first hawk in a breeding chamber :yawinkle: but they are staying on until the last moment :yawinkle:

Father did not raise a fool! :yawinkle:

Totaly valid advice!

[Goshawks00]

Good enough, , some times we do things without thinking them through, and others may see and give a word of wisdom to help prevent the same accidents that they've experienced. How your breeding goes well and good to know you are going in with both eyes wide open.
Barry

[Tim Laycock]

The information is still valid Barry and stands now for all those out there who were not aware.

I would imagine there are a lot of people with birds in chambers who have benefitted from your post already 8-)

Exellent!

[NightOwl]

my male has been chupping to me for the last few days now. every bit of this is all new to me but i hope to learn from this year to carry on next year.

[Tim Laycock]

Likewise 8-) :supz:

This imprint breeding is a total culture shock :rolleyes:

[Accipitress]

JUst a couple more pictures of a female almost ready for copulation. Our male is chupping and bowing like crazy. His nest is huge this year and he's still building it. He's giving me the almond eyes so he is almost ready to donate. Sure wish he didn't get so excited, he spreads the semen all over the place. Maybe this year he'll settle down and donate properly. By the way, the male looks much like the female when ready. Mine gets a certain look in his eyes, they turn almond shaped. HIs wings are held tight to the body and his shoulders are huntched. He walks very tall and his legs are stiff. He's also now taking food gentaly from my fingers. I hope these pictures come through.

Becky

[BFC 007]

very good Becky,nice photos.

[Tim Laycock]

Becky, I love those American Goshawks :heart:

[Accipitress]

I love um too Black bird but some day I'm going to get a finnish female. I had one once for a season and fell in love with thier power. She was awsome on jack rabbits. I've attached a couple pictures of me holding one of her white tail jacks. I don't have one of her on it, I was too excited and forgot I had the camera. This was taken several years ago, I think it was like 4 years ago. The other is of me and Teja plus the jack. :D



Thanks BFC 007, these were taken this morning when she was given her morning food. Our other female isn't that far along yet but I'm alowed in her chamber and we do nest build together. Both our females stand for AI but it's the males I've had trouble with. He comes to the fist and copulates but either he dosen't leave any semen or he spreads it all over before he's done.:(

[Hacker]

Those Jacks are a good size too, should take some stopping!

[Accipitress]

She hog tied that one!:lol: She grabbed it in the back then reached up between it's back legs and grabbed a front leg. When I got there I tried to grab a back leg to help her control it but I got kicked off. So I pinned it's head until my husband got there to help us. She caught a few jacks using that method. Amazing birds.

Becky

[Tim Laycock]

First rate!, that is a big "rabbit" :lol:

[BFC 007]

First rate!, that is a big "rabbit" :lol:


thought it was a goat Tim :lol:

[Goshawks00]

WOW Becky!!!!! That's a big Jack and nice looking goshawk, I'd love to have one like that, how much does she fly at? :>P
I hope this is the year for you guys, but then what will I do if my Finnish pair do breed? BTW my F. male is busy nest building and is now chupping at the ledge and food passing to this here no count female<G>
Anyway good luck,
Barry

[Accipitress]

WOW Becky!!!!! That's a big Jack and nice looking goshawk, I'd love to have one like that, how much does she fly at? :>P
I hope this is the year for you guys, but then what will I do if my Finnish pair do breed? BTW my F. male is busy nest building and is now chupping at the ledge and food passing to this here no count female<G>
Anyway good luck,
Barry

You should know since your the lucky guy that has her now. So Teja's not trying to rip his face off? She's taking the food from him? I'll bet your excited and I'd love to have one of her offspring some day, you know that. I know you'll get it done.

I don't think this is going to be the year though I could be wrong. I hope I"m wrong. Richard wants to try putting the two imprints together. :o So far they are talking to each other but Cronus the male talks to anything thats white right now... he's really getting hot. ;) Ms Havoc sits by the window and watches him build the nest and chups and he answers so we'll see what happens. I hope it's true love.:heart:

Becky

[Liam Hay]

good pics becky i like the nest:supz:

[Accipitress]

Thanks. We use the bottom of a bamboo chair. We've found several of them in the dump.

Becky

[NightOwl]

thanks for the info. becky. will look out for those almond eyes with my male.
cheers
jason

[Hawkmaster]

Thanks to Terry's AI Course I just attended I have tried some of his working principals and my female has not kicked in BIG time!

[Chris S]

hey paul did you find her avairy ok ha ha

[Hawkmaster]

Yes Chris you JOKERS weren't around:supz:

[Tim Laycock]

I had an AI turorial this evening from Chris Southern <btw>Had to travel 1 mile and it cost nowt! :supz: :finga: :supz:

Picking up semen in the morning, hope to catch the third egg!

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b348/Accipitrine/2133.jpg

[Goshawks00]

Good luck hope she works for you.
barry

[Goshawks00]

Just came in from first try of collecting emen from the boys. Jack the 5 year old- stepped right up and gave a great salute to the betterment of raptor propagation, which is just what I expected as he's been doing this for now his third season.
Moved over to Apache which while a three year old home bred , has just been given back to the project after two years of quail hawking. Hunting him through the winter gave me a good idea he'd make it as a donor and I am really excited about using him , as his offspring will be the fourth generation bred in captivity, something most breeders over here can't say and his is the cream "no pun intended" of the crop coming from the center of my line.

Anyway yesterday in the AM he flew up to the collection platform and when I put my hand in , dang, he freaked and jumped two foot high then started flying around the mews "wild eyed". I think he thought I had tricked him and death was imminent. Later in the evening I tried him again, this time he flew over and very stiff legged straddled my fist and just stood there like a statue not knowing what to go, but had that look on his face, which you would also have if you were standing over a huge baseball bat and someone else had their hands grasping the over end<G> Today however he did his best impression of belly dancing and left a golden drop of 'go juice' which not only proved his manhood but also upon microscoping, proved his virility. I'm stoked!!
Barry

[Accipitress]

Congratulations Barry you must have the golden hand. :supz:

Becky

[Goshawks00]

No! No! Becky I had protection on ;>P
Barry

[Accipitress]

I SHOULD HOPE SO!!! That is if your a responcible breeder.:lol:

Becky