good and bad breeders

[Dave G]

ok as we have many newbies coming and going from the forum and are looking into buying a hawk this coming season ,i thought it would be good to post up a thread on who breeds a good hawk or falcon and is not just out for the money and whos phone is always on if help is required or having probs with their new bird so come on you guys/girls who would you buy another bird off or who wouldnt you touch with a barge pole

[Blaze]

Terry Young!...Bird Dealer and a first class *****!:evil:

[AndyYounger]

This is gonna be a good one. i can see a lot of people getting upset here!
i have baught a couple of falcons from Peter and Richard at falcon mews and they have all been spot on. i have also sold a few birds i have produced and from time to time i will call some of the people to see how they are getting on.

[Dave G]

well its about time bad breeders were put out of action so come on truth plz

[SycoPaff]

isle of wight owl and falconry centre may end up breeding harris' and falcons (pere and luggars)! dont buy them! bad news!

[Barbary Boy]

the problem is you can be a consientious breeder doing your very best to produce quality birds but every now and again something goes wrong. you sell a bird to a muppet or the bird might genuinely have a problem tottally out of charecter to that particular pair, then all of a sudden you have a sick or dead bird and lo and behold its the breeders fault.how long after purchase do people think is acceptable to expect some sort of comeback on the breeder? a lot of harm can be done to a bird in a few short days. im not talking about this bird in question, i would have given them a full refund or replaced the bird no problem if a vet had proved a genetic or long standing problem. there is an old saying, live stock is dead stock, a bit harsh for sure but there is truth in it,i allways tell new owners if they are not happy with the bird within 48hrs ill give them thier money back,i really dont think i can be fairer than that because you just dont know what people are doing and any longer in poor hands could be fatal. i try to vet buyers as best i can but just what can a breeder do to ensure every bird goes to the perfect home, its a problem, i do everything i can to make sure customers are happy as its good publisity for the future, i would appreciate peoples veiws and comments.

[Perlin2006]

blaze is that terry from kentish falconry :?:

[Adam Barrett]

no mate i think he is on about terry young a BOP dealer from leeds area.

[JB29]

I think this is another case for getting the Lantra qualifications system going as soon as possible. A breeder could then ensure that birds are only sold to those who have gone to the trouble and expense of getting qualified and the breeder would be in the clear. By the way Steve Moroney sells some excellent birds.

[CooperMan]

seems far to me Barbary Boy if you are vetting the buyer, that is all you can do and if the buyer knows what is what they should be checking eyes feet feather condition etc. and getting blood and mute samples when they get home there should be a problem. But then I wonder how many buyers do that.
Just out of curiosity BB have you turned any one away when coming to purchase a bird. We chased a fellow off a couple of years ago who was addamant he was going to hunt rabbits with a tiercel peregrine we were selling. Prat!!!

[Afshimo]

Blue falcons - Mark Robb, hard to top and classy, good looking, big footed birds!

[Perlin2006]

i was just wondering cuz ive herd nothing but good things about kentish falconry.

[Barbary Boy]

yes ive "put people off" but fortunatly not that often.

[Hobby]

I am curious how and to what extent a breeder vets his potential clients.Surely most of the time it must be from what the purchaser chooses to tell.

[Barbary Boy]

I am curious how and to what extent a breeder vets his potential clients.Surely most of the time it must be from what the purchaser chooses to tell.
what do you think a breeder should do m8????

[FlameHairedFalconer]

I've heard theres a good breeder near Morpeth....:heart:

How did you vet ME BB? :rolleyes:

[Barbary Boy]

I've heard theres a good breeder near Morpeth....:heart:

How did you vet ME BB? :rolleyes:
just by looks gorgeous just by looks.

[Dave G]

ok vetting a buyer mmm if i was a seller then ask questions to gain knowledge of the person question on the housing of the bird and i think the big give awy is when they put a welders glove on and bring in a cat carry box to take them away in pmsl , sorry not for sale sign goes up lol

[Sparrow Hawker]

I think where possible its always best selling birds via word of mouth.

HH

[GosFlyer]

i don't think its fair to slag breeders off because certain individuals have had a bad experience from them. anyone buying a bird should surely vet the breeder and take the time to view the youngster being reared. so long as the parents arent closely related and the young are fed correctly on a good diet. what does the purchaser expect, he is buying a young bird of known parentage, its then up to him how the bird turns out. the real problem in our sport is second hand birds like an imprint gos i new of fed up to shut it up and then sold on as parent reared, and this will happen with harris's and falcons, these are the *****s that want naming and shaming, unless of course a breeder is selling birds and saying they expect them to fly at a certain weight and both parents together would'nt fly that heavy, or truly rickety sort of birds sold on instead of being culled as poor do'ers. rather than slag someone off tell us why you are doing so it may be you that is in the wrong and have spoiled a good bird.:rolleyes:

[Dave G]

well said goss this is the aim of this thread to give every one a say in who breeds a good hunting bird and you would recomend, if youve had a bad expierience with a bird off a breeder then say what was wrong with the bird, i.e it flew backwards lol or would not hunt ,or even wouldnt come when called as it was found to be deaf lol

[OwlsFoot]

kentish has a quaility setup ans quaility birds and some ****in massive breedin harrises and terry is alrite for southerner lol when im after a falcon theres only one place im goin to kentish very helpful and if your very lucky you mite get a brew and buy a bird over £200 and you get a big mac thrown in lol no guys messin aside kentish is a cracker:supz: :supz: :goodman:

[Harrisii]

i got 2 harrises from mohamed solimon, falconry scotland last year.
both birds are excellent, and have taken over 120 head this season.
kept in contact and email regular asking about birds.
as they said when the birds were bought. it doesnt end here. we want to know how they are getting on and their progress.

[Hobby]

BB-My initial thoughts are that the client could be asked for

1.photographic evidence of housing
2.References from other Falconers
3.club membership details
4.details of previous and current birds
In addition, those new to the sport could be asked for
5.Details of introduction course
6.name and address of mentor

All this info can obviously be cross referenced to the extent that it is felt necessary.

[Hacker]

Trouble with a question like this is how do you know if the agrieved owner of a ******ed bird knows what he is doing?
The bird might be sh**e bred or maybe it might have been a gem and was handled sh**e and then when ******ed the "falconer" blames the breeder rather than their own handling skills, or lack of.
"Passing the buck" i think is the term for this.
As BB said reputable dealers will try to amend a problem, but it only takes one "falconer" to blacken their credibility.

[Adam Barrett]

Had a female harris last year of a lad called Ryan Lightley up by kendle.
i dont know if he is on the list but would love top get back in touch with him if anyone knows of him. the hawk is a cracker hunting well at 2lb 6 and deadly on all all quarry :-)

yours
adam

[Harrisii]

My initial thoughts are that the client could be asked for

1.photographic evidence of housing
2.References from other Falconers
3.club membership details
4.details of previous and current birds
In addition, those new to the sport could be asked for
5.Details of introduction course
6.name and address of mentor

All this info can obviously be cross referenced to the extent that it is felt necessary.

good point hobby,
however when i started i couldnt give answers to questions 2 to 6.
i did it on my own and made a success of it. but i realise that not everyone will make a success of it so i agree. i dont think i am the exeption to the rule but it does pay to know your birds would be going to a decent well prepared home. the only falconer i knew really was the guy who sold me my first bird.
as for clubs etc, ive never felt the need nor ever will to join one.
didnt take a course, and didnt have a mentor, other than the guy who sold me my first bird. i still keep in touch with him but he is no longer in the sport.

but if i were a breeder i would be asking loads of questions.

[Jack Merlin]

A bit off topic, but I have a brief questionnaire for people wanting to buy a dog. The answers can sometimes be quite revealing. A few more questions over the phone is usually the clincher.

I would not even consider selling a dog to someone who has not bothered to do some research. And I NEVER give warranties -- it is easy enough to spoil a promising young dog in less than five minutes!

Like the guy who claimed he was a livestock farmer and would be training and working the dog on his own farm and those of his neighbours.

A quick check of his post code against www.streetmap.co.uk (http://www.streetmap.co.uk) and I replied that he was certainly a clever fellow to breed all those sheep and cattle in the middle of Birmingham!<vbg>

[Kentish Falconry]

i was just wondering cuz ive herd nothing but good things about kentish falconry.

Thank you Perlin2006 for your kind words and no I am not Terry Young but it would be nice if he returned the books he borrowed from me about 9 years ago that I have asked for time and time again anyway he is in Leeds not Kent have a look in the IBR he is in there
Terry:supz: :supz: :supz: :supz:

[PeregrinesUK]

Terry Young!...Bird Dealer and a first class *****!:evil:

dont know this man personally so cant comment on him other than he does deal a lot of birds my mate got a harris from him this year and it had an ibr ring on it so he called the ibr to register it turns out it came from way down south somewhere and was not bred by terry at all so he now has a bird he has no idea of the history of.

i really think this thread is a bad idea technically this could be classed as libel

[Hobby]

Harrisii
Strangely enough I was ,many years ago, in the same situation as you were as a beginer and could not answer any of my own points 2 to 6 either!however when I approached an old time falconer /breeder for a kestrel,he said go to the library and read these three books[can't remember titles one was woodfords manual] and don't think about having a bird until at least another six months.I duly did this and pestered him with questions and after finally getting my first bird from him, he was always available to help.I appreciate this sounds all very romantic and is not the bussiness like way it happens today hence my earlier vetting list.

[Kentish Falconry]

Asking questions and recieveing replys from potential purchasers, As breeders we all have to ask questions and make a judgement based on the replys recieved but as Barbary Boy has said it is all too easy for one to slip through the net, we are as carefull as we can be when we sell our birds and I would not knowingly sell a bird to a complete novice unless they had someone with them who was knowlageable and willing to act as a mentor but as I said it is all too easy for one to slip through the net no matter how hard we try to avoid it. But we all had to start somewhere so we have to make some allowances.
I used to ask buyers to bring some pics of themselves and previous birds they had owned, as we all have pic's of our birds, I had one guy turn up here with pic's of some lovely weatherings and lawn that he told me he had just finnished constructing very nice but the problem was they were taken at my Mates Falconry centre and I had been there a few days before and he had shown me the new setup. Now if I had not been there I would have sold this muppet a good bird thinking it was going to a good home instead he got nothing from me at all, except a fond farewell.
Terry :roll:

[Harrisii]

Harrisii
Strangely enough I was ,many years ago, in the same situation as you were as a beginer and could not answer any of my own points 2 to 6 either!however when I approached an old time falconer /breeder for a kestrel,he said go to the library and read these three books[can't remember titles one was woodfords manual] and don't think about having a bird until at least another six months.I duly did this and pestered him with questions and after finally getting my first bird from him, he was always available to help.I appreciate this sounds all very romantic and is not the bussiness like way it happens today hence my earlier vetting list.


as we have got more experienced and we see the damage which can be done to falconry and the birds by ill prepared beginers we change our attitude too.
we were lucky i guess and it turned out good for us. we succeeded where loads dont.
i did read loads on the subject and i had a decent mews etc built long i advance of getting a bird as well as learn my leather craft etc.
but i am with you in that i would also ask these questions and seek as much info from people before thinking of selling a bird to someone.

best wishes, H.

[Stratocaster]

There are far too many people breeding birds for the wrong reason, "money"
it is these people putting birds into the hands of individuals who are doing
no favours to the birds or the sport.
some species are so easy to breed, no thought goes into it at all, anyone
with enough cash gets a bird.
The responsible breeders do not advertise their stock, you have a hard
job getting birds from these people, as the birds they produce are top
quality, generally bred for specific traits and hunting styles.
There are waiting lists for most birds from these breeders who care
where the eyasses go to, generally it is by recommendation.
this is not a bitch about big commercial facilities, these guys are there
through hard work mostly, it is indiscriminate production of birds that
end up being sold in the local add papers, Disgusting.

[Barbary Boy]

if most breeders didnt breed birds for"money" there wouldnt be enough birds bred to supply the demand and i think you would see a lot more wild birds being robbed from the nest, allso i dont think it is breeders you see selling cheap birds in the local free papers but the straw fire enthusiast who is only interested in cheap birds in the first place, then moves on to something else readvertising the bird for another no hoper muppit and the cycle goes on and on and on!

[Hacker]

That what has ruined many a Harris, the fact that they are so cheap.
A good breeder can only sell for the market price, a lot of people are selling for peanuts and they are not bothered about the genetic integrity of their breeding stock.
All that matters is that the birds breed!
I remember back in the 70`s when a harris hawk would cost you a couple of grand!

[ScotsFalconer]

I Am Sorry But I Think That This Post Is Highly Immature, If You Think A Breeder Is Bad Keep It To Yourself. You Might Think He Is Bad But Other Might Not. And By You Saying How Bad He/she Is Could Ruin Them. Not Fair. There Have Been A Few 'bad' Breeders Here Mentioned That I Have All Have Good Quality Bird From And Other Good One Which I Have Not Been Pleased With But I Am Keeping It To My Self. If A Newcomer Want To Know A Good Breeder He/she Can Bloody Well Ask Someone On A Private Message. This Will Not Help Them! Understood Whoever Started This And Carried It On.

[Barbary Boy]

There are far too many people breeding birds for the wrong reason, "money"
it is these people putting birds into the hands of individuals who are doing
no favours to the birds or the sport.
some species are so easy to breed, no thought goes into it at all, anyone
with enough cash gets a bird.
The responsible breeders do not advertise their stock, you have a hard
job getting birds from these people, as the birds they produce are top
quality, generally bred for specific traits and hunting styles.
There are waiting lists for most birds from these breeders who care
where the eyasses go to, generally it is by recommendation.
this is not a bitch about big commercial facilities, these guys are there
through hard work mostly, it is indiscriminate production of birds that
end up being sold in the local add papers, Disgusting.
what do you think people should breed for? love? satisfaction or what! i can tell you like most breeders could, if i charged my time at say £10 per hour my birds would be five times the price. like hacker said the real problem is that the popular birds are just to cheap! maybe thats why their popular?

[MattSpar]

There are far too many people breeding birds for the wrong reason, "money"
it is these people putting birds into the hands of individuals who are doing
no favours to the birds or the sport.
some species are so easy to breed, no thought goes into it at all, anyone
with enough cash gets a bird.
The responsible breeders do not advertise their stock, you have a hard
job getting birds from these people, as the birds they produce are top
quality, generally bred for specific traits and hunting styles.
There are waiting lists for most birds from these breeders who care
where the eyasses go to, generally it is by recommendation.
this is not a bitch about big commercial facilities, these guys are there
through hard work mostly, it is indiscriminate production of birds that
end up being sold in the local add papers, Disgusting.

If breeders weren't interested in money, how the hell are they expected to make a living? They are in business just the same as the rest of us. Their business is birds of prey, that's all. As for responsible breeders not advertising, just take a look at the websites. Mick Kane, Mark Robb, Nick Fox, and so on. Isn't that advertising? As far as I'm aware, they're all perfectly respectable. They have to advertise their commodities just as any other business has to. Yes, I'm sure they all love what they do, but they have to put bread on the table and pay the mortgage just like you and me. I see nothing wrong in advertising.

[Barbary Boy]

I Am Sorry But I Think That This Post Is Highly Immature, If You Think A Breeder Is Bad Keep It To Yourself. You Might Think He Is Bad But Other Might Not. And By You Saying How Bad He/she Is Could Ruin Them. Not Fair. There Have Been A Few 'bad' Breeders Here Mentioned That I Have All Have Good Quality Bird From And Other Good One Which I Have Not Been Pleased With But I Am Keeping It To My Self. If A Newcomer Want To Know A Good Breeder He/she Can Bloody Well Ask Someone On A Private Message. This Will Not Help Them! Understood Whoever Started This And Carried It On.
well said that man.

[Barbary Boy]

i am actually not worried by this thread at all, i am a small breeder but have never placed an ad in cage and aviery for example. i allways manage to sell my birds by word of mouth and peoples recommendations, i have only put them on this forum as a service to my "mates" on here. i dont need any **** from anyone on here or from anywhere else most of my birds are allready spoken for for this year and the few that arnt will go with no hassle from other satisfied customers, SO THERE!

[Stratocaster]

you missed the point
commercial breeders have reputation to keep up and work hard at it
no probs with that, the back street guys thats only interest is cash,
dont care who buys them, how many of these are legit businesses?
read the post again boys.

[Pitbull]

I would say to the first time buyer, Go and see the breeder that you are thinking of getting it from now, If you can become friends the better, that way you are less likely to get a load of bull or if you are you have a good 6 months to find out. If its your first bird you should really have someone that will be able to help you through the training of your bird, ask them who they think is reputable, who they used.
Just dont turn up at the breeders and ask about getting a bird, and go back when they say so. Remember the bird could be with you for 20 or so years.

[ScotsFalconer]

to stratocaster: but i think your missing the point of what i just said it is not up to you to decide whether a breeder is bad or not. u may have only had one bad experience with him yet others may have had better. i would rather buy my birds from small breeders than commercial breeder. f**k their reputation i dont care as long as i get a bird for a good price and that works and looks well im happy. naming and shaming is not the option mate. grow up!

[Pitbull]

Breeders are in it for the money
Buyers are there for the price

[Barbary Boy]

you missed the point
commercial breeders have reputation to keep up and work hard at it
no probs with that, the back street guys thats only interest is cash,
dont care who buys them, how many of these are legit businesses?
read the post again boys.
still disagree. there are some "puppy farm" breeders out there who will breed anything from anything .its quantity not quality there after. unfortunatly the falconry beast that we have all created is so thirsty anything will sell. lets look at what people fly, mostly the cheaper end of the market stuff in this country!lads come here and admire my barbaries but dont buy them because they are"just a small peregrine" why pay £1000 for one when burt down the road is knocking out tiercel peregrines for£250 they do the same job dont they?gyr X sakers are probably one of the best examples, 10yrs ago they were gods gift to falconry you and me couldnt afford one, now they are an extremely cheap falcon thats why so many people have them, they are a very good bird but an economically more desireable bird than a £1000 female peregrine of good quality, despite the fact that the guy flying it has a £20000 4x4

[Barbary Boy]

I think where possible its always best selling birds via word of mouth.

HH
OOH YEA OOH YEA BARBARIES FOR SALE BARBARIES FOR SALE OOH YEA OOH YEA, like that you mean?

[Barbary Boy]

BB-My initial thoughts are that the client could be asked for

1.photographic evidence of housing
2.References from other Falconers
3.club membership details
4.details of previous and current birds
In addition, those new to the sport could be asked for
5.Details of introduction course
6.name and address of mentor

All this info can obviously be cross referenced to the extent that it is felt necessary.
all very admarable sentiments my freind but human nature being what it is !people lie, i think i have been around long enough to feel what someone is like. someone said earlier that if they turn up with a welders glove its a clue, i quite agree, you quite quickly realise if some one knows what theyre doing or not, but at the end of the day we all make mistakes and regretable though that is its life and i dont think LANTRA qualifications will make the slightest bit of difference.

[Hobby]

BB I agree they do lie, thats why I mentioned in my last line about checking their info.

[Kevin Massey]

would agree with terry young (tuddy), more of a bird dealer from leeds !!

avoid like the plague

[johnny abbott]

Thank you Perlin2006 for your kind words and no I am not Terry Young but it would be nice if he returned the books he borrowed from me about 9 years ago that I have asked for time and time again anyway he is in Leeds not Kent have a look in the IBR he is in there
Terry:supz: :supz: :supz: :supz:
hi terry i am meeting up with terry young this weekend i will mention the books he borrowed off you

[Dagash]

hello everyone,

i think i'll buy a falcon from Terry(kentishfalconry) this summer :supz: good BOP's inshallah :-P this summer if everything goes well

Regards
mohammed

[Kentish Falconry]

hi terry i am meeting up with terry young this weekend i will mention the books he borrowed off you

Hi Johnny.......... If you can get them out of him you can keep them mate I replaced them years ago so it's now just a case of principles. I never bother thinking about them these days they are long gone by now but you never know. One was Incubation by Anderson Brown, the Peregrine fund book and I think the other was the Goshawk workshop so no real value
Terry:)

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Most of you here is absolutely right, a lot of responsibility, if not all, is on the breeder when he selld a bird.
Not one of you out there who do not sell birds know what its like tough. I actually been sat in my car crying after speaking to a guy who called himself a falconer. He had been flying birds for 20 years and he called me for a white gyr/saker male. When I asked about his experiance he got really nasty as "who am I to ask him"!!
He then enterupted me with "if you dont want to sell me a f**icng bird dont worrie, I can go to plenty of breeders, it not like its a short demand you know".
He asked the price and when a gave it he told me "you are a ****ing joke mate" and hung up.
I dont want to deal with brittish people at all any more. They are soo rude to me and have are seriously insulted when I want to know there experiance. All of you experiance falconers, ask your self what you are like to the breeders when the breeders ask about your experiance, as my experiance (EXPECIALLY OF NOVICE FALCONERS) of britts are so bad and they been so arrogant to me!
Now Im not saying all, I have great examples as well. Buyers that became our good friends, Mick from Esham Hall, what a nice chap, care for his birds and is such a good guy. Hannah, her first e-mail stated: "I do not care about the price as I rather pay more and get a good healthy bird" I fell of the chair reading it, thinking it was a joke!! She ended up getting the bird a lot cheaper then we normally sell them as she was so nice and seemed to really care properly for the bird she was getting!
Stormrider, never bought one, but was really nice to deal with on the phone, and really plesant to talk to, not at all bothered with my questions, rahter the opposit.
Soo threre you go, named some really good buyers for you breeders. ;)
Sara "Blue falcon-Mark Robb"

[Jack Merlin]

I actually been sat in my car crying after speaking to a guy who called himself a falconer. He had been flying birds for 20 years and he called me for a white gyr/saker male. When I asked about his experiance he got really nasty as "who am I to ask him"!! (The rest snipped) Sara "Blue falcon-Mark Robb"

Sara,

One remark like that and my phone goes down - BANG!

No one but a damned fool should expect you to sell to the first person who turns up with a cheque book, especially without making enquiries. If he doesn't understand that, don't sell him the bird because he doesn't care enough about it! I know how difficult it is sometimes to refuse the money, but that is the correct thing to do and sod the bank manager.

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

LOL
If you know how many people I turned away and told them to go to another breeder!
I just dont see why people should insult me??
As I said, its more comon then uncomon, and often from experianced falconers who cant take me asking about their experiance...
I will never sell to a ****head!!

[Kentish Falconry]

LOL

I will never sell to a ****head!!

Oh well thats me out then lol
Terry :heart: :heart: :heart:

[AndyYounger]

Sara you are quite right! i have turned down 4 people last year thay wanted a chilean! they had all flown a harris for 1 season. 2 of them had birds that were trained before they got them. all but one took offence. he is now in contact with me and will evntually have one when i think he is ready.
so let them be *****s. you are the one in the right!
Andy

[W Jenkins]

spot on gosflyer you hit the nail right on the head if people were to vet breeders properly this would help big time, many moons ago i had the same thing happen to me where i took someone at face value told me i was getting a sonnoran fhh seen the parents etc but asked to se some sort of certification of import but he couldn,t produce the goods told me that parents female flew at 2lb 9 and father at 1lb 11 any short and sweet took the young bird manned and trained but 8 months into it the thing just about took my face off scars to prove it across my nose and top of my left eye then started to fly at my kids any that was the last straw the bird was given to my freind who has a centre where he tried to take on but to no avail now would you put this down to back to back breeding/or maybe just the bad apple in the cart i do love the hh,s but this was won scary f****in bird finally control measures do need to be put in control the sale of harris hawks especially as know of certain cheeky chaps who do not even fly them purely want to expoit them for there own ****y pockets for its a bad day when we hype the bird up (quote it takes fur and feather blue brown hare geese you know what i am talking about) just lets be honest when selling any BOP.:rolleyes:

[AndyYounger]

WJ i have seen this in harris hawks and other birds before. i believe it comes from rearing birds in open fronted aviarys and the you effectively are cresh reared. i beleive this is done by people not having a clue what they are doing. the probably dont even know if their birds are related. this is sometimes the case with HH as they are so easy to breed. And with weights i know you can never guarentee the weight a bird will fly at you can only go on previous clutches. in a lot of cases the parents size can make a difference. i recently baught a eyass Superior MHH. and so did my friend. the two birds were brothers one flies at 1lb 12. (good big male) and the other is 1llb 7. it just happens. but its the breeders responsbilty to tell you the script. honesty from the very begining and nobody will ever need to get upset. I feel the main thing from a buying point of veiw is to check the quality of the bird and see the parents. and from a selling point is to make sure you dont sell a bird to some halfwit that is gonna **** it up and blame the breeder. if you get a good parent reared birs staight out of a seclusion avary. its down to you how good or how bad the bird will be
Andy

[Bones]

Soz for putting a downer on the thread but you can breed the best falcon/hawk there is from the best bird stock about but if the person buying the bird doesn't fly the bird as often as it should be flown and entered and had quarry put under it as soon as it should be it can then act like it has come from the worst breeder there is as i think any bird is as much capable as another if manned/trained/entered the right way from day one.The problem is there's far to many people out there slagging breeders off when if they was to look back at what they had done or hadn't done correctly in the right order and manner then perhaps the bird wouldn't have half the faults it had devoloped but again if breeders was to ask all the right questions and vet folk right then we wouldnt have people with half the knowledge they need to get the best outta a bird and then turning and blaming the breeders and selling it on for some one else to try and sort out
soz for long post but just my oppinion
PAUL

[AndyYounger]

Thats pretty much the same as most of think. but when is someone really ready to fly a falcon?. i still remember when i got my first one. the breeder wanted to speak to my mentor. this got my respect big time! and the falcon turned out superb. so its not always the pupil who could **** it iu the mentor may not really know what they are doing. its a hard one to draw a line at.

[johnny abbott]

i have read many bad comments re terry young everyone has the right to there opinion weather it is right or wrong.so here is mine over the last 4yrs i have had 5 harris hawks from terry and only 1 made a noise but never on the hunting field.they have all being very good hunters never any aggresion to any other birds or to the falconer.and with every bird sold to me i was told by terry if you are not happy with the bird please bring it back for any reason all. you will always get falconers saying bad things about breeders and vice versa

[AndyYounger]

Johnny. i realy think we are all pulling in the same direction( for a change)
sometimes you have a bad experience. but it is down to both parties.
it takes two to tango!

[North East Harris Hawker]

johnny, how did you manage to steal my avatar?

[Cobra]

The Whole thing is a real mine field, at the end of the day we are dealing with living creatures here, and as such each one in an individual.
Previous sibling hunting weights can't really be taken as a "standard" My female Harris in her 1st couple of years killed at 2lb.4oz (progressed to 2lb 7oz) and her full sister at 2lb 1oz.
The same goes for breeders and buyers, one person will have a good experience and another bad (again on both sides of the equation) but I think that anyone who consistently produces **** birds though inbreeding or breeding from a bird that was **** at hunting "its no good at this I might just as well breed from it and make a few quid" needs to be named and shamed to get the line out of the hunting equation for good. The same applies to buyers, what happened to the last bird they had? why do they want another? (why) do they keep buying birds year after year?
Thats my oar stuck in deep enough to cause a little more controversy.
Chris

[The Ninja]

I Am Sorry But I Think That This Post Is Highly Immature, If You Think A Breeder Is Bad Keep It To Yourself.

Hiya SF, not quite sure why you think this post is immature, surely it's a good thing for a buyer to have as much information as possible. (Personally in todays greed society I would be very hesitant to post publicly about a bad breeder as I'd probably end up getting sued.)


If A Newcomer Want To Know A Good Breeder He/she Can Bloody Well Ask Someone On A Private Message.

Who would a newbie ask ? It is quite daunting for us Newbies on here sometimes.


You Might Think He Is Bad But Other Might Not. And By You Saying How Bad He/she Is Could Ruin Them. Not Fair.

It's very fair if it's true. Have you ever had bad service at a Shop/Garage/Restaurant and someone has told you afterwards that they knew about it. You may still have gone along if you had the information in the 1st place, at least you would have had more knowledge.


There Have Been A Few 'bad' Breeders Here Mentioned That I Have All Have Good Quality Bird From And Other Good One Which I Have Not Been Pleased With But I Am Keeping It To My Self.
Why keep it to yourself ? if someone has a reputation for being a bad breeder and gives you a fantastic service let others know, maybe they have learnt from their mistakes.

;-)

[Starsky]

I used to know a guy who was breeding HH in the mid-late 80s,all bird were imported stock. Were rumors that he used to produce 30+ birds a year at £1000+ per bird. Now a friend of mine bought a pair (unrelated he was told) off him and the young of this pair were ****. They used to throw fits when flown and some of the young were so badly deformed they never made it that far. I heard that he used to also sterilize some of the female birds he sold, cant say how or if he did as it was only a rumor. I bet he made a fortune out of breeding HH, i know he was doing it for many years. The only thing i can think of was he was selling related pairs and inbreeding was the outcome.

[MattSpar]

Car dealing, Stocks and shares, hawk breeding, there's good and bad in all walks of life.

[Falconry Equipment International]

LOL
If you know how many people I turned away and told them to go to another breeder!
I just dont see why people should insult me??
As I said, its more comon then uncomon, and often from experianced falconers who cant take me asking about their experiance...
I will never sell to a ****head!!
SAra with all due respect I very much doubt if these " so called experenced falconers" are proficient enough to handle one of your / marks offspring. I think that neither you , nor Mark know whom I am but ahve a very colse association/ friendship with what is widely considered one of te greatest lowland gamehawker/ authors of the 2oth Century and sadly he has furnished me with many similar stories. As an equipment supplier for many years I can say I have had so many similar conversations from folk wanting best quality for less than i can produce it for.
I find it very sad that despite going to extra ordinary lengths to provide quality be it in equipment or hawks these days the 'super market of ethics' of price over quality seems to be king over any form of quality control. Even after 40 years+ I am entranced by these wonderful creatures ( peregrines especially) and hold them in great esteem which unfortunately seems tom be all to lacking these days. Any body could be writing this but hope fully you can read between the lines an may know there is at least some depth to my post. However If I was to contact you with a view to purchhasing a hawk ( which unfortunaley I am not in the market for , being somewhat over hawked , as you do not know me I ***uld automaticly be expected to be questioned at length and vetted and would be dissapointed with a breeder if this did not happen.
Whilst I have never spoke to either yourself or Mark, I know well of both your good reputations and hope this at least some way restores your faith in humanity. ( one last thing if these idiots continue to do this think of the number s game and eventually you willget the puirchaser you desire)
keep up the good work. I hope this makse sense and v ery sorry for bad typing/ mispelling, I am very dyslexic. ATB J

[Barbary Boy]

changing tack slightly here , i tell you what else ****es me off, the guys who turn up for a bird and havent even got a box,a hood,anklets or basically anything! i might sound tight but if i give away a full set of gear with every bird that leaves here , that soon mounts up. just like all my local m8s who turn up with, "have you got a set of jesses for my h/hawk," and of course you duely cut them out and fit them for them. the number of times i go to get some leather out my box and think ****! its nearly all gone and ive only had 2prs of jesses from the whole hide?

[Tooker]

I turned up at the breeders with a nice new box...as recommended in JPJ's Training Birds of Prey book...and was told by the breeder that a cardboard board box was better...

ps....I also turned up with a complete set of furniture....

..as it was the breeder supplied his own..:)

[Barbary Boy]

I turned up at the breeders with a nice new box...as recommended in JPJ's Training Birds of Prey book...and was told by the breeder that a cardboard board box was better...

ps....I also turned up with a complete set of furniture....
good on you m8 i wish more people were likr you, it wouldnt be so bad if they asked you if you could supply stuff in plenty of time but they turn up empty handed then you look a right plonker as you scrat around russtling something up sharpish.

[Tooker]

good on you m8 i wish more people were likr you, it wouldnt be so bad if they asked you if you could supply stuff in plenty of time but they turn up empty handed then you look a right plonker as you scrat around russtling something up sharpish.

To me...treating somebody like that is a total lack of respect!

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

SAra with all due respect I very much doubt if these " so called experenced falconers" are proficient enough to handle one of your / marks offspring. I think that neither you , nor Mark know whom I am but ahve a very colse association/ friendship with what is widely considered one of te greatest lowland gamehawker/ authors of the 2oth Century and sadly he has furnished me with many similar stories. As an equipment supplier for many years I can say I have had so many similar conversations from folk wanting best quality for less than i can produce it for.
I find it very sad that despite going to extra ordinary lengths to provide quality be it in equipment or hawks these days the 'super market of ethics' of price over quality seems to be king over any form of quality control. Even after 40 years+ I am entranced by these wonderful creatures ( peregrines especially) and hold them in great esteem which unfortunately seems tom be all to lacking these days. Any body could be writing this but hope fully you can read between the lines an may know there is at least some depth to my post. However If I was to contact you with a view to purchhasing a hawk ( which unfortunaley I am not in the market for , being somewhat over hawked , as you do not know me I ***uld automaticly be expected to be questioned at length and vetted and would be dissapointed with a breeder if this did not happen.
Whilst I have never spoke to either yourself or Mark, I know well of both your good reputations and hope this at least some way restores your faith in humanity. ( one last thing if these idiots continue to do this think of the number s game and eventually you willget the puirchaser you desire)
keep up the good work. I hope this makse sense and v ery sorry for bad typing/ mispelling, I am very dyslexic. ATB J

Thanks for your post SJ, I am happy (even tough its bad) its not only me!!
I cant get my head around many brittish coustomers! If we sat down and worked out the cost price for a bird I think we would have a chock of our life.
We are renowned for high prices, but also good birds and I would have tought that goes hand in hand?
We have given birds away for free to good friends and turned buyers away. I rather get a good price as I know that the person buying it really wants it if he is preperd to put his hand in his pocket, or we give it to a good friend that we know will look after it!! I will not sell to mr di** head who is looking for a cool and cheap toy!

[AndyYounger]

Sara you need to keep up what you are doing. If all of us are the same then the people who dont have a clue will have to get one or they wont get a bird.
i am considering supplying a carry box and equipment with all of my chileans. (at a cost of course) bu at least i know the bird has top quality eqipment when it leaves me. this will include ankletts(fitted). mews and flying jesses(top quality kangaroo from jeremy law) good swivell and lop leash from "yarak birds of prey" ultra stong and well made. the perch will be removed from the box and the bird put in the the box with Just anklets on. i thaught about tail mount and bell but differernt people like different suetups.