Advantages/disadvantages of wild hacking

[UKJay74]

hi people have noticed in a fair few adverts that birds have been wild hacked what are the main advantages of this method over tame hacking also disadvantages

[Dave G]

i have to say this would be to an advantage hacking a wild bop as first off this bird can fend for itself so should be a good hunter,none vocal lol,and think it would be a good learning curve for a newbie to the sport aslong as they had a mentor of course and at the end of the day iit could be quite easly be re released into the wild if the owner no longer wanted it ,instead of being stuck in a pen suffering ??

[BFC 007]

with wild hacked birds they have learnt there powers of flight before training commences,so its a case of manning & entering really. Also they will have more muscle bulk than a hacked-pen eyass. Disadvantages-they learn to sit in trees. lol

[BlackShaheen1]

i have to say this would be to an advantage hacking a wild bop as first off this bird can fend for itself so should be a good hunter,none vocal lol,and think it would be a good learning curve for a newbie to the sport aslong as they had a mentor of course and at the end of the day iit could be quite easly be re released into the wild if the owner no longer wanted it ,instead of being stuck in a pen suffering ??
firstly you have got totaly the wrong end of the stick as far as wild hack is concerned.firstly it has nothing to do with wild birds it is for captive bread birds .secondly the wild or traditional hack is defenatly not for so called newbies as it takes alot of expirence to do this corectly .or you could loose or even kill your birds. the advantages to a hacked eyas is thatit has developedthe physical condition and mental outlook of a wild falcon .bifor you give out any more advice .try to read a book called the hunting falcon by bruce A Haak .and i wont even go into the releasing of birds into the wild as i am sure your aware it is illigal.

[UKJay74]

cheers for responses so far:supz:

[Kentish Falconry]

with wild hacked birds they have learnt there powers of flight before training commences,so its a case of manning & entering really. Also they will have more muscle bulk than a hacked-pen eyass. Disadvantages-they learn to sit in trees. lol

Paul I have to disagree with you on this M8, I have wild hacked Falcons and also Hacked them in a Large Chamber, if anything chamber hacked birds are just as fit and muscled as wild hacked birds because we can controll the ammount of flying done over the course of a day whilst with Wild Hacked birds you have no controll and as you said they can just go and sit in a tree or on a roof. With Chamber Hacked birds we can drive them to fly around the pen and gradually increase the amount of circuits flown on each session this way we can get our birds very fit.
Another advantage of Chamber Hacking is that you do not loose your birds whereas with Wild Hack the birds are free to leave the area and not come back one bird left Sheffield and ended up on the Isle of Sky and was recaptured there. Sods law says it will always be the best birds that get lost.
Terry:)

[BFC 007]

ok terry,but your hacked pen birds have never learnt to fly in the wind like wild-hacked ones so power of flight & manoverability must be greater

[Sparrow Hawker]

Has anyone had any personal experience of wild hacked (captive bred) spars?

HH

[Berkut]

Wild hacked birds have obviously learned the powers of flight but they have also learned some bad habits.A friend of mine ,who also works for me doing landfill flew 2 hacked gyr/saker males and both would often pitch on trees,roofs or power lines and he had to spend more time tracking the birds as they were quite slow to respond at times and liked to do their own thing,even with accurate weight control.

I personally favour Terry ( Kentish ) system of birds muscling up in a large hack pen and moulding the various lessons in flight etc around the falconer once trained.

[BFC 007]

Has anyone had any personal experience of wild hacked (captive bred) spars?

HH

i have not heard of any but the idea of hacking is to trap them back before they kill,with spars this would be the same day lol maybe if fitted with good telemetry you could hack them out for a while but it would be a huge gamble.

[MattSpar]

Paul I have to disagree with you on this M8, I have wild hacked Falcons and also Hacked them in a Large Chamber, if anything chamber hacked birds are just as fit and muscled as wild hacked birds because we can controll the ammount of flying done over the course of a day whilst with Wild Hacked birds you have no controll and as you said they can just go and sit in a tree or on a roof. With Chamber Hacked birds we can drive them to fly around the pen and gradually increase the amount of circuits flown on each session this way we can get our birds very fit.
Another advantage of Chamber Hacking is that you do not loose your birds whereas with Wild Hack the birds are free to leave the area and not come back one bird left Sheffield and ended up on the Isle of Sky and was recaptured there. Sods law says it will always be the best birds that get lost.
Terry:)

Part of the object of hacking is to teach eyasses how to use air currents, and to at least begin learning how to foot quarry as they begin chasing various birds. Also, hacked birds learn the geography of the area and are less likely, if flown in that area, to be lost.
I've never pen hacked birds, so this is a genuine question - An unhacked eyass can be going loose within a couple of weeks of being hard penned, and soon be fit. What real advantage is there in driving untrained birds round and round in an enclosure, apart from stressing them?
No, I'm not having a dig. If I'm missing something, I'd really like to know.

[Afshimo]

Shiro was hacked, he just has more of the know-how, (good for teaching me lol) and was much fitter then a bird bought at the same age non hacked. Also they do fly at higher weights? More muscle then fat. As the falcon her bell's will tell you more lol. If she wants too!

Shiro has only sat once, he got scared by the cars and went on the roof, but was quick to come back and soon flying round me again. But yeah, hacked birds sure do know whats what and for beginner's like me teach u loads!

[Jack Merlin]

Has anyone had any personal experience of wild hacked (captive bred) spars?

HH

I can only answer half of your question! Captive bred? No.

I took two eyas spars from the wild just before they became protected (1962?). As a student, I did harvest work that summer and lived in a tent under a large beech tree where I had placed the hack basket. When the musket disappeared, I trapped up the female.

I trained her in London in my parent's home when the rest of the family was on holiday. Later, took her to Ireland, got her entered, etc. She took all the usual quarry including several Little Owls, a stoat, partridge, blackbirds, thrushes, sparrows, etc. She also featured in a TV series as a wild bird.

[Sean]

rodger upton made a book i got a while ago from the library, really really old, but does into hacking in deep detail, dammit i wish i could remember the name of it lol. also half teh book was patterns

[Falconry Equipment International]

I think you will find its called FALCONRY PRINCIPLES & PRACTICE HTH J

[UKJay74]

I think you will find its called FALCONRY PRINCIPLES & PRACTICE HTH J

looks like a book to hunt down for the library :D

cheers again for the replies guys and gals:supz:

[Kentish Falconry]

Part of the object of hacking is to teach eyasses how to use air currents, and to at least begin learning how to foot quarry as they begin chasing various birds. Also, hacked birds learn the geography of the area and are less likely, if flown in that area, to be lost.
I've never pen hacked birds, so this is a genuine question - An unhacked eyass can be going loose within a couple of weeks of being hard penned, and soon be fit. What real advantage is there in driving untrained birds round and round in an enclosure, apart from stressing them?
No, I'm not having a dig. If I'm missing something, I'd really like to know.

In answer to your question I am not sugesting that you start to drive the birds as soon as you put them into the chamber, we put the birds in and leave them to learn to fly first by the time we start to push them they are used to our presence in the chamber as we feed them 3 times a day they never appear to be stressed and some birds see the routine flying exercises we give them as fun and turn it into a race, we acheive a fitness in the birds that even I find hard to believe, one of the main advantages of how we train our birds is that you can get them fit at fat weight and turn the fat into muscle. If Miguel Gomeze sees this he will tell you that a bird he bought from us performed really well after the moult he found he had to fly his bird 1 1/2 ozs lower than the year before.
So we do not allow the birds to become stressed or to start blowing you can tell when a bird has had enough another advantage is that once one group of birds are flying stongly we put in more youngsters and they train the next batch to fly in their own time, the system works really well and if you have the time to spare, once we have grown on chicks you are welcome to come and see just what I mean.
We give almost all our birds 3 weeks of free flight in the Hack Pen sometimes this is extended to 4,5 or even 6 weeks.
Someone, I think Hannah, mentioned ATFHB regarding wild hack which she and Mark do with their birds, whilst in Abu Dhabi they saw one of my birds being trained in the Desert and I am sure she will tell you just how well this bird flew and how much power the bird had.
The other part of your question was what are the advantages over a bird just removed from a breeding chamber. IMHO because these birds are fully muscled and ready to fly you have to remove very little weight from them to get them to hunting weight training is therefore much quicker and once flying free after initial manning the bird capabilities are enormous if you want to kite train it is just a case of getting the bird used to the kite and you are quickly up to 1000 ft and more. It is pretty pointless my going on about this just come and see for yourself.
Terry:supz: :supz:

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Well, I dont want to fall in to an argument with Terry on this point, if anyone is interessted in why we wild hack our falcons and how we do it just read on http://www.gyrfalcons.co.uk/hacking.htm
Its written by me, and I recon its quite interessting reading even tough its a bit adversing our falcons, but thats because it on our website, so just ignore that bit.
I dont care what anyone says, (and I am NOT saying this to make customers or try to sound that we are in any way or form better then others) wild hacked birds are FIT, they do not spend all day sitting, they love to play with the winds and play with eachother in the sky, just like they would do in the wild.
But I think you can achive the same fitness in a good built flying chamber, there is two main advantages that in my opinion you can not reach by chamber hacking; the falcons know how to fly with the wind and use thermals. etc. and the falcons brain being more mentaly "developed" and "exercised" as it becomes during hack. So many impressions make them more matured in their head, more like a wild falcon, as they watch things all day long,
In the 3 years we done hacking, we lost more falcons during the process of falconry then we done on hack, still we hacked 100 times more falcons then we have practiced falconry with.

[UKJay74]

atfhb very interesting read gave me a better insight into the wild hack side of things:supz:

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Well, I dont want to fall in to an argument with Terry on this point, if anyone is interessted in why we wild hack our falcons and how we do it just read on http://www.gyrfalcons.co.uk/hacking.htm
Its written by me, and I recon its quite interessting reading even tough its a bit adversing our falcons, but thats because it on our website, so just ignore that bit.
I dont care what anyone says, (and I am NOT saying this to make customers or try to sound that we are in any way or form better then others) wild hacked birds are FIT, they do not spend all day sitting, they love to play with the winds and play with eachother in the sky, just like they would do in the wild.
But I think you can achive the same fitness in a good built flying chamber, there is two main advantages that in my opinion you can not reach by chamber hacking; the falcons know how to fly with the wind and use thermals. etc. and the falcons brain being more mentaly "developed" and "exercised" as it becomes during hack. So many impressions make them more matured in their head, more like a wild falcon, as they watch things all day long,
In the 3 years we done hacking, we lost more falcons during the process of falconry then we done on hack, still we hacked 100 times more falcons then we have practiced falconry with.

I've just turned green with jealousy Sara!! :mrgreen: Want to do a job swap? Fancy a summer spent sitting in a tiny stifling office dealing with idiots while I hack falcons? No?.......******.....well it was worth a try :wink: :lol:

FHF

[FlameHairedFalconer]

You'll get full use of my motorbike too! :lol:

FHF

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

hmmmm Im tempted................... the bike almost swung it.....
I tell you what, why dont you take your bike and come up to see me there, its fantastic to see it live, worth to have a look (as long as there is no flu problems offcourse)

Anyway, Im happy you enjoyed the reading to you wo read it.

[Bird_Dog]

Any opinions on wild hacking imprints verses parent reared falcons?? I missed a chance to fly a wild hacked imprint female peregrine. An eagle got her. If wild hacking resembles the process that a passage falcon goes through, then who wouldn't prefer to fly a passage peregrine?

-- BIRD_DOG

[Sean]

yup thats the one jay, cheers :)

[Dave G]

firstly you have got totaly the wrong end of the stick as far as wild hack is concerned.firstly it has nothing to do with wild birds it is for captive bread birds .secondly the wild or traditional hack is defenatly not for so called newbies as it takes alot of expirence to do this corectly .or you could loose or even kill your birds. the advantages to a hacked eyas is thatit has developedthe physical condition and mental outlook of a wild falcon .bifor you give out any more advice .try to read a book called the hunting falcon by bruce A Haak .and i wont even go into the releasing of birds into the wild as i am sure your aware it is illigal.
well think your the one thats wrong as if you read the threads ,thanx terry for putting the wild hacking post up

[BlackShaheen1]

well think your the one thats wrong as if you read the threads ,thanx terry for putting the wild hacking post up
where im i wrong point it out and i will appolagise