moult

[Stewigan]

it may be a stupid question but generally when you put an harris in to moult how long is it until she starts dropping feathers? is it governed by weight temperature or what. thanks in advance.

[BushHawk]

just get her weight up and it wont take too long

[Ben C]

I have found it to be a couple of weeks.

[Saker-Clive]

The moult is brought on by the increasing daylight, that aided with an increase in weight will usually set it off. The last 3 years, I've put my male HH down to moult around mid April at 1lb. 7 1/2oz top hunting weight; with the increased weight because of the higher and quality food intake, he usually throws his first feathers about 2 - 3 weeks later......................

[Dave G]

ive put my males weight up to 1lb 15oz which he still comes to the fist and is well steady still at this weight ,but hes always been a late moulter as the last 3 years hes been moulted out at 2lb plus but this year not letting him get to fat but lots of different food rat,mice,quail,rabbit ,pheasant and duck as this sorts him out nicely also hes still feather perfect so not too worries about how he moults

[Tim Laycock]

Moulting is triggered by daylight hours, weight has very little to do with it.

[Dave G]

hi blackbird yes the moults triggerd by change in weather longer daylight hours ?? warmth ,but if a bird is left at hunting weight the moult is very slow even not at all, as a friend of mine caught a harris last year flying free for months which was caught around late june and it hadnt moulted a single feather from the year previouse as it was in a mess feather wise and no signs of any new feathers ,and is being moulted out at a higher weight this year ??

[Tim Laycock]

The hawk must have been perching in the shade<g>
Wild raptors dont fatten themselves up for the moult

[Jester]

I put jester down for his first moult mid april last year and let his weight up from 3.14 to around 4.4. he didnt drop a feather until early june and only dropped about half of his primaries and secondaries so im hoping its the other half that drop this year.

At one point all the tail he had was 2 deck feather stubs about 3" long and the rest were about 1" he looked really wierd with no tail


(edit oops this is about harrises i never noticed. oh well never mind )

[SmilyScarab]

have this years hh she had lost 3 fethers 3weeks ago and the have grone back do i still have to put her down for moult or can i still fly her

[Stewigan]

Moulting is triggered by daylight hours, weight has very little to do with it.

by this do u mean direct light as my mews has a full roof only other thing to do is to bow her out, when it stops raining.

[OutFlying]

"have this years hh she had lost 3 fethers 3weeks ago and the have grone back do i still have to put her down for moult or can i still fly her"


The moult is optional not compulsary. Most people stop flying when the hunting season finishes and moult the hawk out ready for the following season.

What did you wish to fly your harris at during the summer and quarry breeding season ?

Jim.

[Cobra]

Wild raptors dont fatten themselves up for the moult

It's probably not a conscious effort more of a conditioned response, as the photoperiod and temperatures increase, the quarry species will be breeding and so, although the hawk is / will be slightly handicapped by the reduced amount of feathers there will be or should be a lot more less wise, prey about. So by default the hawk may well be able to increase its body mass
Chris

[OutFlying]

I think most hawks are able to moult out at response weight (not hunting weight) and don't need to be fatten to obesity levels to ensure a clean moult.

Jim.

[Cobra]

I think most hawks are able to moult out at response weight (not hunting weight) and don't need to be fatten to obesity levels to ensure a clean moult.

Jim.

I agree, I made that mistake some years ago, and it took (or seemed to take) "forever" to reclaim her. now I "moult out" at response or slightly above response weight. Never had any problems and the reclaim times are obviously reduced
Chris

[Ben C]

A responce weight will no doubt correspond to the type of weights that the hawks are at when they moult out in the wild.....i.e a few ounces above the hunting weight that we keep them at.

(this is a rough guess)

[Tim Laycock]

by this do u mean direct light as my mews has a full roof only other thing to do is to bow her out, when it stops raining.

I mean exposure to light but direct sunlight is an important source of vitamins

[Johnny Abbott]

have this years hh she had lost 3 fethers 3weeks ago and the have grone back do i still have to put her down for moult or can i still fly herwhat feathers has she lost three weeks ago that have fully grown back:confused:

[Renton]

what feathers has she lost three weeks ago that have fully grown back:confused:

Exactly!

[Adam Barrett]

Female harris fed up last week and sitting fat at around 3 and a half pound just dropped her first few secondarys. :-)

[MattSpar]

The moult is trigged by the increase in photoperiod (lengthening hours of daylight), as is breeding condition. A hawk's weight (with the exception of one kept at starvation level) has no bearing on whether it moults or not, though a hawk kept at flying weight during this period may well take longer to complete the process, but, demonstration birds apart, I can see no real reason to keep a bird at flying weight during this time.

[Ben C]

From what I have read about the moult it is a huge physiological change of blood cappilleries, muscle and sometimes bone, not just the 'simple concept' of dropping of feathers.......So it does pay to have your hawk up in weight and on a good diet (vitamins and mineral etc etc) as this will help facillitate these huge changes ALONG with the photoperiod etc etc.

But I am no expert so take what I say with a pinch of salt.

[Puzo]

Really it's just a matter of common sense. The bird will begin to moult as the photo-period increases,as we approach the equinox. To produce a good moult the bird needs adequate nutrition. If they don't have this the moult will be protracted & may result in irregular feather growth. you don't need to stuff the bird to foie gras proportions, But an increase in the quality of the food & a good vitamin supplement can only be beneficial.

[MattSpar]

From what I have read about the moult it is a huge physiological change of blood cappilleries, muscle and sometimes bone, not just the 'simple concept' of dropping of feathers.......So it does pay to have your hawk up in weight and on a good diet (vitamins and mineral etc etc) as this will help facillitate these huge changes ALONG with the photoperiod etc etc.

But I am no expert so take what I say with a pinch of salt.


Yes, you're quite right, of course. My point was that a hawk will still moult, fat or not, but it certainly does make good sense to at least put her weight up and administer vitamins and the like. As I say, I see no reason for keeping a hawk at flying weight at this time.

[MattSpar]

Really it's just a matter of common sense. The bird will begin to moult as the photo-period increases,as we approach the equinox. To produce a good moult the bird needs adequate nutrition. If they don't have this the moult will be protracted & may result in irregular feather growth. you don't need to stuff the bird to foie gras proportions, But an increase in the quality of the food & a good vitamin supplement can only be beneficial.


Ah, commonsense........ An endangered species these days. It's good to see some still have it.

[Dave Johnson]

it may be a stupid question but generally when you put an harris in to moult how long is it until she starts dropping feathers? is it governed by weight temperature or what. thanks in advance.


Hi,has anyone {in England}got any peregrine feathers they dont want and are willing to send to me?Dave

[Puzo]

Hi,has anyone {in England}got any peregrine feathers they dont want and are willing to send to me?Dave
PM me your address I've got 2 sets I'le send you one

[Defender]

Moulting is triggered by daylight hours, weight has very little to do with it.you talk a load of s--t blackbird weight is a lot to do with it,i will tell you why my fhh went down for her moult in january with in two weeks after i fed her up she started her moult so it is as much to do with daylight as it to do with weight

[Dave G]

well looks like most put the weight up on their birds to help them moult out quicker and in better condition ,so if it was just down to weather i.e why does every up the weight too ???

[Tim Laycock]

you talk a load of s--t blackbird weight is a lot to do with it,i will tell you why my fhh went down for her moult in january with in two weeks after i fed her up she started her moult so it is as much to do with daylight as it to do with weight

Weight does not trigger the moult, it speeds it up!

What would you know about it, what makes you the expert :lol:

I bow to your obviously vast experience of your female Harris hawk and others :rolleyes:

I have left you positive reputation as your experience of Hawks and hawking clearly outweighs my 20 years practical experience with shortwings! PMSL!!!

[Defender]

Weight does not trigger the moult, it speeds it up!

What would you know about it, what makes you the expert :lol:

I bow to your obviously vast experience of your female Harris hawk and others :rolleyes:

I have left you positive reputation as your experience of Hawks and hawking clearly outweighs my 20 years practical experience with shortwings! PMSL!!!
like you i am no expert i am just telling wot i think is right in my 23 years of experience of flying and hunting hawks weight as well as daylight triggers the moult so thankyou and take a bow

[Tim Laycock]

Dont tell me Im talking s--t in future then ;-)

I said weight had very little to do with it, not nothing at all,
Why not put your hawk in a blackout box and feed it until its obese and see how quick it moults.

It makes as much sense as what you imagined you had read when you made the initial statment regarding the validity of my views!

By all means disagree, I still disagree with you! but dont be crude, it smacks of many things and knowledge is not among them.

[HoumaFalconer]

I Don't Beleive In Putting A Bird Up For The Molt, I Hunt My Bird Right Through The Molt And Don't Have Any Problems, I Personally Feel That A Fat Bird Is A Bird In Poor Condition. Falconry Birds Are Not Ment To Be Put In The Mews And Molt, Wild Ones Don't . This Is Just My Thoughts.
Dennis

[Tim Laycock]

I Don't Beleive In Putting A Bird Up For The Molt, I Hunt My Bird Right Through The Molt And Don't Have Any Problems, I Personally Feel That A Fat Bird Is A Bird In Poor Condition. Falconry Birds Are Not Ment To Be Put In The Mews And Molt, Wild Ones Don't . This Is Just My Thoughts.
Dennis

Totaly valid and I know many who would agree with you

[Defender]

Dont tell me Im talking s--t in future then ;-)

I said weight had very little to do with it, not nothing at all,
Why not put your hawk in a blackout box and feed it until its obese and see how quick it moults.

It makes as much sense as what you imagined you had read when you made the initial statment regarding the validity of my views!

By all means disagree, I still disagree with you! but dont be crude, it smacks of many things and knowledge is not among them.i do disagree with you and if you wont to put your bird in a blackout box feel free and feed it up :confused:

[Johnny Abbott]

Dont tell me Im talking s--t in future then ;-)

I said weight had very little to do with it, not nothing at all,
Why not put your hawk in a blackout box and feed it until its obese and see how quick it moults.

It makes as much sense as what you imadined you had read when you made the initial statment regarding the validity of my views!

By all means disagree, I still disagree with you! but dont be crude, it smacks of many things and knowledge is not among them.ok blackbird if going on your theory that weight has very little to do with the moult then please answer me this.if you free loft a bird in an open front aivary all through the summer and kept the bird at flying weight what will be the out come (partial moult ) kept at fat weight and the bird is healthy (clean moult)so to say that weight has very little to do with the moult doesnt add up.ok you will get people that fly there birds through the moult and they say well my birds clean moults always exeptions to the rule but i have seen alot of these birds as i expect you will have seen

[Johnny Abbott]

I Don't Beleive In Putting A Bird Up For The Molt, I Hunt My Bird Right Through The Molt And Don't Have Any Problems, I Personally Feel That A Fat Bird Is A Bird In Poor Condition. Falconry Birds Are Not Ment To Be Put In The Mews And Molt, Wild Ones Don't . This Is Just My Thoughts.
Denniscarnt find in myself to give this person a sensible reply

[Tim Laycock]

i do disagree with you and if you wont to put your bird in a blackout box feel free and feed it up
It was a subtle point I was making, it appears you missed it :lol:

ok blackbird if going on your theory that weight has very little to do with the moult then please answer me this.if you free loft a bird in an open front aivary all through the summer and kept the bird at flying weight what will be the out come (partial moult ) kept at fat weight and the bird is healthy (clean moult)so to say that weight has very little to do with the moult doesnt add up.ok you will get people that fly there birds through the moult and they say well my birds clean moults always exeptions to the rule but i have seen alot of these birds as i expect you will have seen

Johnny,
Im glad you took the time to write the above, it smacks of much common sense and is thought provoking also 8-)
All I can tell you is that none of my accipiters have ever had what I would term to be a partial moult doing things my way and I would have thought that if a problem with moulting was going to be apparent it would be glaringly obvious in an accipiter.
Regarding your question about an open fronted aviary I would not know from my own experiences and never summise what I do not know to be true.
I would rather remain silent than mislead people,

[Tim Laycock]

Are you boys related :rolleyes: :D

[Defender]

no you did:grin:

[Tim Laycock]

Touchet :supz:

[Defender]

Are you boys related :rolleyes: :Dyes :-D

[Tim Laycock]

How did I guess :rolleyes: :lol:

[Defender]

you tell me:idea:

[ColdZero]

I Don't Beleive In Putting A Bird Up For The Molt, I Hunt My Bird Right Through The Molt And Don't Have Any Problems, I Personally Feel That A Fat Bird Is A Bird In Poor Condition. Falconry Birds Are Not Ment To Be Put In The Mews And Molt, Wild Ones Don't . This Is Just My Thoughts.
Dennis


Being in america you would know more than most that a wild bird is heavier than a falconry bird so it is more natural for the bird to be at a 'moulting weight' than hunting weight...so have you experienced any problems moulting a bird at hunting weight? What about finding sporting quarry and the use of ferrets? etc etc.

[MattSpar]

I Don't Beleive In Putting A Bird Up For The Molt, I Hunt My Bird Right Through The Molt And Don't Have Any Problems, I Personally Feel That A Fat Bird Is A Bird In Poor Condition. Falconry Birds Are Not Ment To Be Put In The Mews And Molt, Wild Ones Don't . This Is Just My Thoughts.
Dennis

That may be viable in the USA, but in Great Britain, how on earth do people hunt through the moult? Perhaps I should say, why? There's no-one more dedicated than yours truly, but I have never even considered hunting during the summer. Where, and at what? 1.Game is out of season. 2.Rabbits? where's the sport in catching tiny youngsters (and shouldn't we respect even rabbits as quarry, and let them breed)? 3. Rooks? No farmer will thank you for trampling about in a 100 acre field of waist high barley looking for a rook hawk on a kill, and again, shouldn't they be allowed to rear their young in peace? 4.Lastly, isn't it good to take a break at this, logical, time of year to ruminate on the past season, boast to anyone who'll listen, and look forward to the next one?

[Blaze]

Very well put Mattspar!....

[Pitbull]

well im in the process of thinking about flying my mhh through the moult. Experience is one thing I havent got or very little and the only way i am going to find out is to do. I might find that next year I wont do it again or maybe just keep flying all year round I dont really know. at the moment its all about experimenting. As I already feed my hh the higher valuable foods such as quail guinea pig, etc and the likes i think its gonna be pretty valuable for my own personal experience.

[MattSpar]

well im in the process of thinking about flying my mhh through the moult. Experience is one thing I havent got or very little and the only way i am going to find out is to do. I might find that next year I wont do it again or maybe just keep flying all year round I dont really know. at the moment its all about experimenting. As I already feed my hh the higher valuable foods such as quail guinea pig, etc and the likes i think its gonna be pretty valuable for my own personal experience.

Well it's up to you of course, but if you're after experience, hunting during the summer won't give you the kind of experience you want, I can assure you of that.

[Pitbull]

its not the hunting im doing it for. theres places i take him purely for flying as i know theres no quarry as such just open fields. I had the odd comment of "fly him through the moult" I know of others that have and do, so I am going to give it a blast. For the good or the bad i dont know. and thats what i want too find out.

[MattSpar]

Ah well, I suppose recreational flying is another matter. I simply don't do that sort of thing myself, but each to his own. Personally, I'm too worn out and decrepit at the end of the hunting season to even think of it. Age, I'm afraid.