Tawny Eagles

[PaulColley66]

This may have been discussed before but if it has I can't find it. Apparently Tawny Eagles are comparatively cheap to obtain in relation to other Eagles. Why is this? Are they not very good birds for captivity? Do they not hunt well? Would welcome all comments and advice! Thanks guys.:D

[Wingless]

Tawny Eagles were very cheap for a long time as they are so common in africa and are easily trapped, huge numbers were imported into europe. They are not particularly cheap now because one "supposed" tawny eagle was spotted in Italy by some twitcher, leading to their inclusion on the EU bird directive, resulting in the ban of all wild tawny eagle imports. These days you can expect to pay between £1500 - £2500 for a captive bred tawny, considering you can pick up golden eagles for around £3,000 now, they aren't that cheap! They are no good for hunting as a rule but for demonstrations they can be superb and are natural soaring birds, having a low wing loading. They will also stoop like a falcon to the glove (although ive even seen baldys do this), again impressive for displays!

Robbie

[StormRider]

Technical info alright but you need to check out current prices at the moment. Because of the apparent interest in eagles from the Fox hunting fraternity the prices of eagles have recently doubled in some cases. There was a male goldie on the IBR the other week for abot £6500 whereas a couple of montha ago you could pick them up for about £2500-£3000. A mate of mine was offered a job by a local hunt to go over to Germany and get any type of eagle deemed suitable. they were going to pay his airfares, cost of the bird up to £10,000 and a job for six months to train the bird and a handler from the hunt £30,000. He did turn it down.
It is because of this demand that I feel the prices of eagles have gone up. Saying that I also feel that eagles should be ridiculously priced anyway to stop the numpties from owning them.
STU

[AndyYounger]

i dont think fox hunting has affected the price of eagles. i cant think of any breeder or falconer i know that would associate our sport with any hunt. never mind sell them a bird. i would rather give mine away to a good Falconry Home first.

[Barry]

Paul,

Ignoring stuff about prices and hunts etc and back to your question.

I enjoy Tawny eagles immensely, flying exclusively from the soar. They, if worked correctly go up very willingly and will go as high and for as long as your nerve will hold.

It is true that they do not take to hunting as easily and quickly as a golden or many other species of eagle but THEY DO HUNT. It is important to get the rabbit lure into training early and don't expect them to stoop on every prey item around, they are choosey to a fault, but the flights and stoops you get are magnificent. If you keep in mind what they are and don't compare to more rapacious species you will be very very happy.
Once you get them going up well on thermals they will start using orographic (wind/hill) lift. They don't go as high but are just as effective so you can get to go hawking in the season and for white hares.

Oh, one more thing don't even bother with flights off the fist. The bird is not built for it and is not good at it. They fail to kill on most flights off the fist an will soon stop hunting from the soar if they lose their belief in their ability.

Couple of other things. protect them from combination damp/cold/wind, frostbite and oedema are very real risks, especially in males and Indian tawnys. Also my african male was terrified of being carried over snow! If the ground was totally white no problem. If however we are on patchy ground and walk from clear ground to a snowy patch he goes apeshit!

Tawnys are cool, but most people will not stick with them long enough to see the rewards. Shame really as they can be spectacular.

Barry

[Kennelre]

Thanks for that info. I can't imagine ever being good enough to have one, but I have an absolute passion for them. All I've ever been told so far is...You don't want one of them, they can't hunt.

[StormRider]

i dont think fox hunting has affected the price of eagles. i cant think of any breeder or falconer i know that would associate our sport with any hunt. never mind sell them a bird. i would rather give mine away to a good Falconry Home first.
Im glad to hear that you do not support the hunts Andy, but Im sure that your not niaive enough to think that some so called falconers are not helping them out. Every hunt that has a bird, of which there are quite a few, all have a falconer that is helping them.
I personally would love to fly one. I have heard from a number of guys that they are poor in the field, but they have in the past been too easily available due to low prices (sometimes referred to as the Poor mans eagle). You do often see threads on here where people have spoke about Goldies, and someone has told them to go for the cheaper Steppe/Tawny.
Obviously, Andy, you are the eagle guy on here. What advice could u give regarding flying/hunting Tawny's?

STU

[Berkut]

Barry,s post gives an honest opinion and may answer your question.

I have not flown a tawny but I have flown a Steppes eagle.I personally found it inadequate.

I only really bought the bird because I couldn,t afford a Goldie at the time. For what I wanted it for it was a waste of money.I now fly 2 male Goldies with good success from the waiting on position and off the fist.
The other eagles can,t compete as far as I am concerned,although that is not to say I wouldn,t try another species in the future.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Booger the desginer hawk eagles, get a wedgie. I flew a nasty food imprint to hare and fox, absolutely the equal of a Golden, better on the enclosed stuff (Longer train). Thats saying something coming from a Goldie addict!

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Tawny & Steppes are carrion eagles. That sums it up.

[Zam]

Tawnys are cool, but most people will not stick with them long enough to see the rewards. Shame really as they can be spectacular.

Barry[/QUOTE]

I enjoyed reading your post. Your last sentence summed it up. I always got the impression that Tawnys are NOT considered to be "cool" by eagle flyers. Not impressive enough - basically, not a Golden.

It is a beautiful bird and, as you have proven, if you have the skill and patience, can be hunted effectively. Maybe they don't hunt with the natural enthusiasm of a Golden, but it does seem a shame to dismiss them so quickly as purely a carrion bird.

You are very lucky - and obviously very skilled with eagles - to have flown/trained/hunted the different species of eagle you have posted about.

Have you had any experience with the Golden/Steppes? What are they like?
I have heard they can be quite aggressive.

[PaulColley66]

Thanks for these views. I am new to this forum and do seem to find that there is an element of division regarding falcons / hawks / eagles etc. and further sub-divisions within each of those groups. I must be particularly niaive or is it inexperience that, whilst I have a deep passion for eagles, I find all of these birds fantastic and would be grateful of any interaction with any of them.

[AndyYounger]

I have never flow a tawny. i have seen a few fly and they do fly very well. of the ones i have seen fly i have never seen one chase anything let alone catch anything. i have no doubt that there are tawnys out there that hunt and with reasonable success. i just havnt seen any.

[Barry]

Thanks guys especially for all the PM's they are much more useful and don't get interrupted by the comments of those who speak from limited or no experience. For example I have never seen a bald eagle or chilean catch anything, but of course in the right hands they do, so as such I will not make comment or assumption as my experince is limited.

I am happy to help or advise where I can but will send you to others if you ask about a species specific that I am not experienced with.

Barry.

[Berkut]

Tawnys are cool, but most people will not stick with them long enough to see the rewards. Shame really as they can be spectacular.

Barry

I enjoyed reading your post. Your last sentence summed it up. I always got the impression that Tawnys are NOT considered to be "cool" by eagle flyers. Not impressive enough - basically, not a Golden.

It is a beautiful bird and, as you have proven, if you have the skill and patience, can be hunted effectively. Maybe they don't hunt with the natural enthusiasm of a Golden, but it does seem a shame to dismiss them so quickly as purely a carrion bird.

You are very lucky - and obviously very skilled with eagles - to have flown/trained/hunted the different species of eagle you have posted about.

Have you had any experience with the Golden/Steppes? What are they like?
I have heard they can be quite aggressive.[/QUOTE]




Zam,
I would say Tawny,s and Steppes are well worth having if you can use them for other purposes for example displays etc. and they do fly very well ,particularly when there are good conditions giving natural lift,however when effort is required, this is when I found the steppes to be very disappointing. I could have the bird up for a couple of hours and there was a great deal of pleasure in watching it fly,but when you flush large numbers of quarry under it and it doesn,t even show any inclination to chase,then enough is enough. There was careful weight control also, but it got to the point I just could not take any more weight of the bird. As for off the fist ,as Barry already said, that was a waste of time. At least with a Goldie off the fist flights are worth while and can be spectacular.
As for steppe/goldies I have been involved with 2. The female was a phsycopath.The male would wait on very well but was nearly as lazy as the steppes.Again off the fist was a waste of time.In fairness to the birds they had both been through a few owners which is unfortunate and they may have been ok if trained well from scratch,but as far as I am concerned they were just inferior goldies.
For me falconry is about catching quarry and with the experiences I have had I wouldn,t touch one with a barge pole.

[Barry]

Hi all,

The cross section of input here about Tawnys has been very interesting. Although I have never flown or trained a Steppe Eagle, I am not suprised that success has been limited. They are very different from Tawnys, with bigger heavier bodies and a higher wing loading. The body strength will help them in their migratory habits and make them perhaps better off the fist (but still far from good). However they have proportionately smaller feet and bigger gapes, predisposing them to an even more piratical lifestyle. When foraging they are equally happy ripping up termite mounds as hunting rodent size prey. The big mouth well suits a bird that wants to swallow small prey whole, or take the largest possible amount when scavenging. As I said though I have not tried one so can say little more. I'd be interested to hear from anyone doing well with one, how they do it and what style of flight works etc.

The Tawny however is still not getting a good deal here. I am not going to compare them to Goldens in the same way as I will not compare a Peregrine to a Lugger (Lagger if you prefer). However, I feel that much of what is said is not borne of long hard efforts at getting the bird on game. As I said before, the introduction to the dummy bunny, then game must be early. Robbie, how long did you fly Marge before you put her over a live rabbit? With her and the birds at Eagle Heights how many weeks in a row did you put the birds up over game in the open every day without a break? I expect not even one week because after a few days of refusals you got fed up with it because the Martial chased better and a Harris learned quicker. This is not a criticism. Most peoples experience with Tawnys is centre based and with demo's in mind. The birds take to this very well and so we happily fly them this way and then wonder why a bird that will scavenge if it can, is refusing to try at live game. Why work so hard at getting a tawny on game when a golden is so much more the natural?

Well the answer for me is this. They bloody well do it and do it very well when they have to in the wild. My job as a falconer is to have my birds work as close to the way they do in the wild as is possible, so I will persist. I estimate the effort taken to get a Tawny on a rabbit from pitch (that on still days a Golden will only dream about), is about 500% of that required for a golden. However, the reward and satisfaction therefore is 500% of that attained with a golden. This I know as I fly both!
To say a Tawny will not hunt is an excuse for the falconer who does not have the patience and skill to get it hunting, it's an easy excuse.

Neils comments for those with space to fly a Golden Eagle, time to get and maintain their fitness, and measuring success by hares taken are spot on. Not everyone is in that position though. Additionally, not everyone can physically carry these very big eagles around all day when the weather is not right for waiting on flights.

As I said before, this is not the bird for big game bags and a shed load of hares. But also the Golden is no the bird for the eagle dreamer who does not have thousands of acres of hill and moor to fly over. They (Tawnys) are safe (if well reared and handled) and give daily reliable spectacular pleasure in their style and will take rabbits in breathtaking fashion.

All this said, I believe the Indian Tawny, being a little smaller is probably even harder to get onto game, which is why I am starting an Indian Tawny right now to add to the two Africans I have on game already!

Do not take up a Tawny if you want a heap of rabbits and super fast results. Take up a Tawny if you want to stick two fingers up at those who say it is no good for hunting!

Barry.

[Midland hawker]

hi barry very intresting posts the reason i added 2 the thread about my steppe which has been deleted some how is that on my import paper it says mongolian tawny eagle and on her ibr paper work it says steppe eagle and when visiting falconry displays and the falconry fair last year seen a tawny eagle and mine loooks nothing like one she is alot bigger can u shed some light 4 me :rolleyes:

[Wingless]

Midlandhawker - your bird is a steppe eagle, the mongolian tawny eagle bit is just a common name, doesn't mean anything. What's the scientific name, Aquila nipalensis or Aquila rapax nipalensis? Either way its a steppe eagle, when your bird was imported CITES may have regarded your bird as a sub species of the tawny, which it is not, its a distinct species. The scientific name should be A.nipalensis .. possible a sub species of nipalensis as well.. gets beyond me then!

Robbie

{forgot to mention the tawny at the falconers fair was an african female)

[Midland hawker]

thanks wingless the scientific name is uquilla nipalensis it also says shes not a hybrid on her paper work thanks 4 clearing that up 4 me as when i seen how big she was compared too tawny,s i thought she might of been a cross breed

[Barry]

Midland Hawker,

Easy to get them mixed, even Brown & Amadon had them as one species!

You had a post up about your Steppe taking rabbits in flights off the fist. Wanna let on a bit more about that?

Barry.

[Midland hawker]

hi barry the steppe eagle i own has taken hares not rabbits . the bloke who we got her off has a video off her takin hares and then as soon as he takes her off the kill he shows u the ring number2 prove shes the bird .we also seen her at first hand chase a leveret when out training her on the lure she gave chase aand crashed into the hedge right behind the small hare but did not catch it not had her out 4 a while as the land we can go on has changed 2 shoots now and were only aloud on when there over

[PaulColley66]

You mentioned in an earlier post that "protect them from combination damp/cold/wind, frostbite and oedema are very real risks"

What precautions do you suggest should be built into housing the birds to reduce these risks? And also are these a good "starter eagle" (for lack of a better expression)?

[Barry]

Hey Paul,

When I build mews for single eagle of this size it would be:

8' wide, 8' long and only 4'6" to 5' high. The low height is to make sure that any latent warmth in the building is held down near the bird, not floating around 8' up and the bird shivering below.

I build using 6" wide overlapping boards pinned to a solid frame that I concrete into the ground. To better explain, I concrete in the corner posts, then attach the roof frame and spars, then a centre upright on the three sides with no door and another set of horizontal supports just above the ground. I then pin on the boards (tricky at the top when you are angle cutting each board to follow the slope of the roof) leaving the top line until I have fitted my plywood roof and felted it.

Inside you now have a three sided room with the frame showing. Before you fit the outside boards to the frame you will have used the frame to mark the plywood liner. With the sides now on and the building firm, you can fit the liner. This gives great insulation (you could lag it I suppose but I never have) and a smooth inner surface to ensure no damage is done to feathers if your bird bates as you put her in/take her out.

The door:

I use to double skinned two piece door the full width of the mews. It is south facing. I make it so the doors will open completely so I can keep the bird inside with protection on days where it is too cold or frosty to put her out on the lawn, but I want her in the sun and fresh air while keeping her protected from wind and rain etc. Also I make a pair of large steel hooks at the bottom of the frame and fit a hasp and staple at the top. I then make a framed wire mesh door cover, so if I want to go out and keep the bird in fresh air/sun etc, but secure I can leave the doors wide open and fit/lock the wire front for security from all risks whether human or animal.

The floor I suppose is personal choice, but whatever you put down I would lay an under liner of wire mesh to keep out digging rodents.

Before I took on my barn for a big mews I used this design in various sizes to accomodate everything from a Golden eagle and gyr falcons to redtail and coopers hawk with never a single broken feather or incident.

What is also handy is that with the wire front door option, you have a great small building in which to house a recuperating bird that needs to have restricted flight but does need to be kept without tethering. It worked well for me for a vulture that I bought with a broken wing and that Neil Forbes cut and fixed, and also for a Harris that broke her leg.

Do I think it is a good starter bird? Well I have to say I hate the idea of starter birds. I'd like to think that you'd have a Tawny because you want a Tawny and plan to develop and keep it for a long long time. Do I think it is a good bird for an eagle falconer with limited eagle experience who wants to develop his/her skill and enjoy magnificent soaring/flying/waiting on with fairly light game bags? Well as long as it's not a raging mal-imprint (which will be a noisey biting ******, believe me, I've had one!) then without a doubt, yes.

Hope this helps.

Barry.

[PaulColley66]

Barry - believe me it is for the love of the bird that I want a Tawny. The more you tell me about them, the more they appeal to me and my circumstances.

Never could anybody receive a more full yet concise answer to a couple of questions. Barry - thanks for your time m8!!

[Barry]

My pleasure Paul,

Now let me think, Bradford to Dumfries? 3 1/2 hours? If you can make it up on a warm day, we're opening a second centre down there (I'm in Fife at the moment) in April and you can come along and see one of our Tawnys speck out on a thermal and stoop back in, it's just so cool! You can fly it if you want.

Barry.

[Barry]

Midland Hawker,

Have you ever tried your eagle on thermals or in strong wind in the hills? If you want to some time, give me a call. We all say that Steppes are poor hunters, and for me that's just a red rag to a bull (that's why I have worked so hard with the Tawnys). So if you have a bird that wants to chase and take game, then it seems a shame not to fly it in a way that will give it the best possible chance. Many Steppe eagles are very migratory and on the route they thermal and soar on updraught a great deal, so a good warm day to see how he does on thermals or a windy day in the right location could just get him/her fired up.

Barry.

[PaulColley66]

My pleasure Paul,

Now let me think, Bradford to Dumfries? 3 1/2 hours? If you can make it up on a warm day, we're opening a second centre down there (I'm in Fife at the moment) in April and you can come along and see one of our Tawnys speck out on a thermal and stoop back in, it's just so cool! You can fly it if you want.

Barry.

Now stop it Barry - I just got so excited a little bit of pee came out!
I will keep in touch via pm if that's ok. Dumfries is easily accessible to, I used to visit my grandparents for the day in Annan. I take it you're going to be too busy to be going to the Falconry Fair then?

Cheers - Paul.

[Barry]

While we are talking about Tawny Eagles, has anybody on here ever flown them, or any of the smaller Aquila Eagles, as a cast? Barry

[Merger]

I have a female tawny here indian I got from mima several years ago, great steady eagle, oppurtunist, she has taken a mallard and a squirrel, both in the wrong place at the wrong time, great begginers eagle before moving on to something more aggresive with bigger feet!

[Barry]

Hey Merger,If I had a Tawny taking game like that just because it was opportune I would really be trying to develop her. I'm chuffed someone else is taking some game with one though. I'd like to think people would want to take one up because of the flights they can provide from incredible pitch and not move on and either shuffle the Tawny around or leave it unflown. What do you do with yours now? If you are not flying her and don't plan to I'd be happy to buy her from you. I have two African Tawnys here and one Indian. I have another African on order for this year. I'm addicted to those huge pitches and amazing stoops, and am just so pleased when they take game because it's harder and takes more work than with other eagles to achieve and so is so rewarding when you do.Do you know anyone with an Indian male?Barry

[Merger]

Hi barry, yes I understand what you are saying, but here in gloucestershire its not really eagle country, although If I could get on the duke of beauforts estate up the hill, fine, this is why mima flew tawnys a bit more practical here because of there bouyancy, and the temperment,mine is a real darling to handle, I am assuming that most tawnys are like this, I am also very chuffed to see how unlike most birds they have gone up in value,I bought mine off mima when her rangerover blew up!!! and she needed a new engine, thank god I was just ten miles up the road! I will pm you with some more info.cheers kev riach.

[Barry]

Hey Karl,

If your still watching this thread, this is just an update about your old bird.

The mature Tawny I took from you has just worked out what her wings are for and yesterday took her highest pitch yet at around 400' and stayed up for around five minutes. A real step forward considering she has been at 20' for months! Sadly though she got a real slap from a wild buzzard and ended up on the floor. She eventually got up again by which time I'd walked off to the bottom of the hill about 1/3 mile away and 100' below her. She got up again and made about 150' more then came in but tried to snatch the food, however she made a turn without landing and tried again but still over flew, but another full turn at about 50' by the end of the turn and she came in. Not an ideal day, but many lessons learned. She is now finally flying with her wings fully outstretched instead of the slightly pulled in nervous position. I just hope she is not too worried about the buzzard attention.

Thought you'd be pleased to hear that she is finally going up and I will introduce the rabbit lure within a week as long as the height thing remains constant.

Barry.

[Merger]

Glad to see theres still a few tawny fans here,, I think a lot of my tawny and for what I do ,she fits the bill perfect, if its of any interest to anyone she flies at about 4lb 6 oz, is this norm as I have little exp, with other tawnys, I will get some batt, for the camera and take a couple of pics tommorow if you like, perhaps barry could do the same, sounds like some people may like to see them .

[Cyclone]

tawnys are stunning birds!
cyclone

[Matthew Patching]

i dont think fox hunting has affected the price of eagles. i cant think of any breeder or falconer i know that would associate our sport with any hunt. never mind sell them a bird. i would rather give mine away to a good Falconry Home first.

Id rather give mine to the antis!!!
ME:)

[Matthew Patching]

Tawnys are cool, but most people will not stick with them long enough to see the rewards. Shame really as they can be spectacular.

Barry

I feel th same about common buzzards people just dont know how to get into their heads.
ME:)

[Matthew Patching]

Do not take up a Tawny if you want a heap of rabbits and super fast results. Take up a Tawny if you want to stick two fingers up at those who say it is no good for hunting!

Barry.

I feel this way about my goldie steppes.
ME:)

[Matthew Patching]

You mentioned in an earlier post that "protect them from combination damp/cold/wind, frostbite and oedema are very real risks"

What precautions do you suggest should be built into housing the birds to reduce these risks? And also are these a good "starter eagle" (for lack of a better expression)?


Free loft them and use heat tubes.
ME:)

[Isis]

Tawny eagles are immense in the right hands, same as any BOP, depends on the falconer:yawinkle:

[Merger]

Heres ,,wittle,, not brilliant pics but you can see her, there was no flash on, she must of blinked at that second,!!!

[Matthew Patching]

Heres ,,wittle,, not brilliant pics but you can see her, there was no flash on, she must of blinked at that second,!!!

She is butiful, mate what year was she bred.
ME:)

[Merger]

She was bred in 1999, out of mimas old pair, she is as pleasant to handle as she looks!

[Matthew Patching]

She was bred in 1999, out of mimas old pair, she is as pleasant to handle as she looks!

deos she display to you?
ME:)

[Merger]

She is completely parent reared, spends a lot of time, wandering around her perches with sticks in her mouth.!! I think shes gagging to breed!

[Dougie Mc]

barry did you get any results back from the tests done on your eagle