New threader/Incubator Question

[Wolf]

Hello from sunny Wales !!!!
Currently using Octagon 40's and 20's for incubating Pere Hybrids and Pure Peres with limited success over 6 yrs AI. What incubators r u using and what humidity are you achieving inside the incubator for correct weight loss for pures ?

[Barbary Boy]

Hello from sunny Wales !!!!
Currently using Octagon 40's and 20's for incubating Pere Hybrids and Pure Peres with limited success over 6 yrs AI. What incubators r u using and what humidity are you achieving inside the incubator for correct weight loss for pures ?
i use rol x incubators and never measure humidity? just run them dry! i have a very good success rate with the few fertile eggs i run?

[Talon]

i use turn x.. there a great little incubater.allso run my dry.
ive hatched .hh. kestrels. american kesrels. spars .ferrugis.with no promblems.
i would recommened them for the small breeder.

[Zam]

I use a Masalles Digital. Personally - I think they're pretty hard to beat. Accurate to within .5/degree. TWO alarms. Two fans. Programmable turning etc.etc.

As you can gather - I am really pleased with mine:D

[Falcon911]

Turn-x for me too and very nearly dry.

[GregMik]

I split the thread and copied it here for Wolf.

Greg

[Goshawks00]

China Praire at about 30% , also two Brinseas 20's one at 25 % the other around 45%. I think we don't have the humidity that you all do so we need to add it. Of course all eggs are weighed and charted so humidity is a living/moving number to maintain correct weight loss.
do any of you use weight loss for your eggs?
Barry

[Wolf]

Many thanks for your assistance Greg splitting the thread, also to all others for their replies.....all good food for thought !!!
Ive artificially hatched Pere Prairies and pere Sakers dry but my Pure Peregrines needed approx 30 % humidity in the incubator to achieve anywhere near the correct weight loss. Depending on how this season goes I may try roll x or grumbach....depending on what I can afford.

Brinsea dont seem to allow enough air circulation and also no full turns.

Cheers,
WOLF

[Jack Merlin]

A bit OT, but does anyone use hens?

This is a serious question as I have Old English Game fowl which are tremendous mothers. I think I would trust them more than I'd trust the Roll-X's. I have four of these incubators and they have done me well, but they do occasionally go wrong.

[Rocky]

I use Octagon 20,s and run them dry but i also manually turn the eggs about 5 times a day as well
Mel

[Peregrine1]

Hello Wolf
I use Brinsea octogen 20's for several years, my hatch rates have always been in the 90%plus region. With Peregrines Gyr/Peres X Peres and the few Gyr X peres I have done all have hatched. And last season I hatched 100% of my perlin eggs even beating mum who had one stop under her. The room is small where I set up the incubators (a bit to small ito be honest) but has a heater controlled by a thermostat which comes in if the room temp drops below 20 c and it also has a number of small fans bringing in cool fresh air in, low down, and fans higher up takking hot warm air out, the fans also only come in if the temp goes above 25 c again controlled by a thermostat. I also use a good wieght loss chart which is very good and very easy to use designed by Paul Mckinder. They is also a humidifier running in the room all incubaters are run dry. except one in another room which is run wet, just incase it is needed. Eggs are drilled if needed. A few years back I brought a " first Class incubator" which developed several faults through out and cost me several eggs. Looking back I don't know why I did this needless to say its gone and back to the brinseas. I know they look cheap and nasty but you can run several, thus not putting all you're eggs in one basket so if one goes down you don't lose all you're eggs if you don't notice it has broke in time. The 2 bad things about the Oct 20's I have noticed the digital read out on the top is as much use as a chocolate fire guard. And they can not cope with temp changes in the incubator room especially as it drops cold in the night. Hence thats why I regulate my room.
Regards
Colin
Ps most eggs are set from day 1

[Paco]

I think the problem in brinsea incubator is that the thermometer fails , and show you a wrong temperature.This is my experience with three of this incubator. When i bought a calibrate thermomether i saw i was incubating at
0.5 c degrees high .
You must buy a calibrate thermometer and check your incubator.

[Peregrine1]

I think the problem in brinsea incubator is that the thermometer fails , and show you a wrong temperature.This is my experience with three of this incubator. When i bought a calibrate thermomether i saw i was incubating at
0.5 c degrees high .
You must buy a calibrate thermometer and check your incubator.
Very true I have a calibrated thermometer, which though was not cheap its what every other themometer egg spot ect is calibrated at the beginining of every breeding season.
Regards
Colin

[Onyx25]

A bit OT, but does anyone use hens?

This is a serious question as I have Old English Game fowl which are tremendous mothers. I think I would trust them more than I'd trust the Roll-X's. I have four of these incubators and they have done me well, but they do occasionally go wrong.
Used to use pekin bantams they are very good mothers as long as you don't give them too many eggs and don't allow them off the eggs too often when they are sitting.

[Kentish Falconry]

Hello from sunny Wales !!!!
Currently using Octagon 40's and 20's for incubating Pere Hybrids and Pure Peres with limited success over 6 yrs AI. What incubators r u using and what humidity are you achieving inside the incubator for correct weight loss for pures ?

Hi Wolf.........I have been meaning to get involved in this thread but time is short now with the breeding kicking in.
I have used Brinsea Octagon Incubators in the past and unlike Colin I did not like them may be something to do with where I live. I was offered an X8 to test but declined the offer as I do not trust them after some of the reports I have seen.
I have been using AB Newlife incubators now for 5 years and find them to be just about the best UK Incubator avaiable you can find a link to them in the links page on my website. I have 2 of these now and had one converted by the factory to run just rollers for starting the eggs off. Good value for the money. http://www.abincubators.co.uk/ I have just ordered another AB Newlife hatcher as the results are so good with them £400
Grumbach well what can I say? if ever there was a disaster waiting to happen this is the machine to prove it in the first year just about everything that could go wrong did and ended up cooking 48 fertile eggs, i still have the machine and use it for quail and chicken eggs and worry about them too
I also have 3 Alpha Genisis Machines from China Prairie in the USA these are without doubt the best Incubator on the market www.chinaprairie.com.
I do find that I get a better result from them if I start the eggs off on rollers first but for accuracey and smoothness they can't be beaten. They come complete with battery back up. Not a cheap machine but you get what you pay for.
I have a couple of Certified Thermometers that I use in each incubator each year to test the set up but have not had to adjust anything for the last 2 years as all my Incubators are computer based. I also check that Humidity is set correctly as well both in the Incubator room and the Incubators themselves.
As for what humidity do I use I set all my Incubators at different Humidity levels so I can swop eggs around as needed. I used to use Graphs for my eggs 10 years ago but I discovered the AIMS progam (Avian Incubation Management System) not only does it controll and manage all my breeding stock and chicks it also fills out all the paperwork I need for DEFRA. The most important feature in the program is the egg controll system you just weigh the egg measure it put the ID number on it and no mistake can be made it works out KW value and weight loss/gain in a split second and tells you which of your incubators will run the egg to the set weight loss each time you weigh the egg, I can deal with 60 eggs in 45 mins and this number of eggs would take ages if I had to do it by hand with a calculator at £250 for the program if you save one chick or egg then it has paid for itself all future updates are free of charge as well. I have seen this system grow over the years and it is now used by most Zoos and bird Gardens in the World http://www.avianmanagement.com/
Hope this helps and if you have any further questions please contact me or come on the Incubation Course April 22nd. I promise it will be the best £50 you will ever spend having over 30 years experiance of Incubation condensed into 1 day.
Terry

[Kentish Falconry]

Used to use pekin bantams they are very good mothers as long as you don't give them too many eggs and don't allow them off the eggs too often when they are sitting.

I use Pekin Bantams to start some eggs off and find them to be reliable sitters and I never give them more than 4 eggs at a time. I find they will sit for 45 days with no problem and then I just give them some incubated Pekin eggs close to hatching to keep them happy, I call them my bank cos they look after my money:lol:
If anyone wants any Pekins please PM me and Simon will put some aside for the Sales Weekend for collection
ATB
Terry:supz:

[Altai]

How often do you turn your eggs?
One breeder last year told me that he was turning his eggs every 15 minutes?
Do some of you turn them more frequently in the first day or so and then say every hour or half hour after that?

Also do you stop turning around draw down time? ( many years ago I was talking to a breeder in his living room with a Roll-X going near us and we noticed out of the corner of our eye a falcon chick hatch while the egg was being turned!! He had forgotten the egg was due to hatch. The hatch was perfect!!!!!!)

[Kentish Falconry]

How often do you turn your eggs?
One breeder last year told me that he was turning his eggs every 15 minutes?
Do some of you turn them more frequently in the first day or so and then say every hour or half hour after that?

Also do you stop turning around draw down time? ( many years ago I was talking to a breeder in his living room with a Roll-X going near us and we noticed out of the corner of our eye a falcon chick hatch while the egg was being turned!! He had forgotten the egg was due to hatch. The hatch was perfect!!!!!!)

I turn my eggs 8 times a day untill day 15 then I go on to 1 turn per hour if you are incubating tip down as you should be from day 15 it helps to turn the egg a 1/4 turn 2 or 3 times a day by hand.
When I see Draw down in the egg I stop turning and place the egg into a dish they are then transfered to the Hatcher when they pip, lay your egg on it's side and slowly let it roll untill it stops 99 out of a 100 times the egg is in a possition where it will pip at the top and be easy to see.
Terry

[Goshawks00]

Thank you Terry for your input to this thread. I got a couple of questions. When you say you turn eggs 8 times a day , is this on top of the "rocking" that you get from the China Praire? I too have the Alpha and it is amazing how acturate they are isn't it.
For too many years I've used the pencil weight lose system, you know the kind where you get the pencil out and have to do the math for each egg<G> How simple ( yea I know "simple" is an arbitrary word) is the AIMS system to set-up and work, as I'm 'puter challenged and would like to find something easier to track egg with.
BTW I see Brinsea also offers a "system" anyone tried it yet.
Thanks for any response,
Barry

[Peregrine1]

Thank you Terry for your input to this thread. I got a couple of questions. When you say you turn eggs 8 times a day , is this on top of the "rocking" that you get from the China Praire? I too have the Alpha and it is amazing how acturate they are isn't it.
For too many years I've used the pencil weight lose system, you know the kind where you get the pencil out and have to do the math for each egg<G> How simple ( yea I know "simple" is an arbitrary word) is the AIMS system to set-up and work, as I'm 'puter challenged and would like to find something easier to track egg with.
BTW I see Brinsea also offers a "system" anyone tried it yet.
Thanks for any response,
Barry
Paul mckinders Is easy to use on the Pc charts weight loss well and even puts all the info on a graph.Works fresh egg weight as well.

falconeggcharts@mkdr.freeserve.co.uk

[Kentish Falconry]

Thank you Terry for your input to this thread. I got a couple of questions. When you say you turn eggs 8 times a day , is this on top of the "rocking" that you get from the China Praire? I too have the Alpha and it is amazing how acturate they are isn't it.
For too many years I've used the pencil weight lose system, you know the kind where you get the pencil out and have to do the math for each egg<G> How simple ( yea I know "simple" is an arbitrary word) is the AIMS system to set-up and work, as I'm 'puter challenged and would like to find something easier to track egg with.
BTW I see Brinsea also offers a "system" anyone tried it yet.
Thanks for any response,
Barry

Hi Barry......Long time no speak how are you?
I don't start my eggs off in the Alpha Genisis, I find we get a better vein spread using rollers but I try as much as possible to start as many eggs as I can under one of the Falcons but if I have run out of space I use the Pekin Bantams to start with for about 8 to 10 days, I then put the egss on rollers untill the 15th day then I put them in the Alpha Genisis once they are in there thats when I start to turn the egg slightly by hand no more than 1/4 turn and only 3 times a day not 8, (8 is the amount of times the rollers turn in a 24 hour period in the AB Newlife) yes this is seperate from the auto turn as I am spinning the egg as well as the auto rocking, speak to Fred or Matt and they will advise you further. Which Alpha Genisis have you got? I am currently running 2 AG2500's and a AG3000C what a machine!!

The AIMS system is easy to set up all you have to do is enter all your stock with ring/ID numbers your chambers, incubators and how they are set up then you are up and running really great and saves you hours with pen and paper and also absolutley accurate. You can pay over the internet and download it as well if you want, you can also visit the site and see the Demo's running.
ATB
Terry

[MattSpar]

I've incubated eggs both artificially, and with bantams, and the best results have been with the latter, who don't monitor weight loss, turn regularly every hour, set the eggs on points at 15 days, nor stop turning at pipping. I know it's a trite aphorism, but does anyone think, as I do, that nature's way can't really be bettered?

[Kentish Falconry]

I've incubated eggs both artificially, and with bantams, and the best results have been with the latter, who don't monitor weight loss, turn regularly every hour, set the eggs on points at 15 days, nor stop turning at pipping. I know it's a trite aphorism, but does anyone think, as I do, that nature's way can't really be bettered?

Ok Matt I'll go with that shall I sell all my incubators and equipment and go for the hit and miss method you advocate? Chickens are fine for early incubation but when you are dealing with Gyr eggs you have to try and hatch as many of your eggs as possible. I do know someone who hatches under his Bantams but I would not do it here. I am only offering help and advice to others on this Forum
ATB
Terry

[MattSpar]

I have a question actually, for Terry please. D'you think merlin eggs are too small for a pekin to sit?

[Kentish Falconry]

I have a question actually, for Terry please. D'you think merlin eggs are too small for a pekin to sit?

Hi Matt if you are stuck and want to incubate them under the Bantams then I see no reason why it is not possible, Do you have any Doves? they might do a better job with less risk. I seem to remember someone in Wales incubating Merlin and Spar eggs under a Bantam and removeing them at pip to the hatcher. If you do it let me know how you get on please. Also please remember to count the eggs before you let the hen loose on the floor because the biggest problem will be with eggs tucked up in the feathers
ATB
Terry

[MattSpar]

Hi Matt if you are stuck and want to incubate them under the Bantams then I see no reason why it is not possible, Do you have any Doves? they might do a better job with less risk. I seem to remember someone in Wales incubating Merlin and Spar eggs under a Bantam and removeing them at pip to the hatcher. If you do it let me know how you get on please
ATB
Terry

No Terry, I'm not stuck as such. I'm as prepared as I can be actually, but I have both options open to me. Reliable, proven pekin - Octagon 20 'bator. I've hatched raptor eggs in the past, but I'm particularly keen to to the best with these merlins. Obviously I bow to your vastly superior knowledge on this subject. Any advice gratefully received...

[Falcon911]

I used to put 'problem' Spar eggs under my mates racing pigeons. No matter how far off the graph they went, a few days under his pigeons and they were back on track.
Went to collect some one day and one of them was hatching........
Rgds
Andy

[MattSpar]

I used to put 'problem' Spar eggs under my mates racing pigeons. No matter how far off the graph they went, a few days under his pigeons and they were back on track.
Went to collect some one day and one of them was hatching........
Rgds
Andy

That's very interesting.

[Wolf]

Hi Wolf.........I have been meaning to get involved in this thread but time is short now with the breeding kicking in.
I have used Brinsea Octagon Incubators in the past and unlike Colin I did not like them may be something to do with where I live. I was offered an X8 to test but declined the offer as I do not trust them after some of the reports I have seen.
I have been using AB Newlife incubators now for 5 years and find them to be just about the best UK Incubator avaiable you can find a link to them in the links page on my website. I have 2 of these now and had one converted by the factory to run just rollers for starting the eggs off. Good value for the money. http://www.abincubators.co.uk/ I have just ordered another AB Newlife hatcher as the results are so good with them £400
Grumbach well what can I say? if ever there was a disaster waiting to happen this is the machine to prove it in the first year just about everything that could go wrong did and ended up cooking 48 fertile eggs, i still have the machine and use it for quail and chicken eggs and worry about them too
I also have 3 Alpha Genisis Machines from China Prairie in the USA these are without doubt the best Incubator on the market www.chinaprairie.com.
I do find that I get a better result from them if I start the eggs off on rollers first but for accuracey and smoothness they can't be beaten. They come complete with battery back up. Not a cheap machine but you get what you pay for.
I have a couple of Certified Thermometers that I use in each incubator each year to test the set up but have not had to adjust anything for the last 2 years as all my Incubators are computer based. I also check that Humidity is set correctly as well both in the Incubator room and the Incubators themselves.
As for what humidity do I use I set all my Incubators at different Humidity levels so I can swop eggs around as needed. I used to use Graphs for my eggs 10 years ago but I discovered the AIMS progam (Avian Incubation Management System) not only does it controll and manage all my breeding stock and chicks it also fills out all the paperwork I need for DEFRA. The most important feature in the program is the egg controll system you just weigh the egg measure it put the ID number on it and no mistake can be made it works out KW value and weight loss/gain in a split second and tells you which of your incubators will run the egg to the set weight loss each time you weigh the egg, I can deal with 60 eggs in 45 mins and this number of eggs would take ages if I had to do it by hand with a calculator at £250 for the program if you save one chick or egg then it has paid for itself all future updates are free of charge as well. I have seen this system grow over the years and it is now used by most Zoos and bird Gardens in the World http://www.avianmanagement.com/
Hope this helps and if you have any further questions please contact me or come on the Incubation Course April 22nd. I promise it will be the best £50 you will ever spend having over 30 years experiance of Incubation condensed into 1 day.
Terry

Hi Terry,
Thanks for taking the time to reply in so much detail, I appreciate the value of your experience.
In my backyard programme I tend to produce 18 fertile eggs per season but only achieve approx 60% hatch rates which have dropped off in the last 2 yrs mainly down to incubation conditions, ie moving house, kids and the wife would nt be happy if I did nt give her a mention !
So far this season I have candalled a couple of Peregrine Saker eggs and they appear fertile so I will have to continue for this season, but it would be nice to plan for a purpose built room and new incubators for next yr............also a lottery win would be nice !
I did use an old roll x (green base) and AB without turning gear for hatching a couple of years ago with reasonable good results so I intend investigating further via AB and roll x.
The ideal world would be for one third natural incubation which I managed with 4 Spars and they hatched sweet as a nut.
Apart from reading as much info as I could on AI in the last 10yrs and training my semen donors I am more or less self taught with advice from a few local breeders.
Sounds like a cracking course and sharing techniques can only help in developing healthy well balanced raptors...can you book me in?
If spaces are available Ill check out your website to obtain full address etc..........

Thanks again,:supz:
Wolf

[GregMik]

Sorry Barry,
I tried to just copy your question into a new thread and lost it here. You may want to repost your reply to Terry without the Gos question.

Sorry

Greg

[Goshawks00]

nay to much to rewrite it now.
Barry

[Wolf]

Hello Wolf
I use Brinsea octogen 20's for several years, my hatch rates have always been in the 90%plus region. With Peregrines Gyr/Peres X Peres and the few Gyr X peres I have done all have hatched. And last season I hatched 100% of my perlin eggs even beating mum who had one stop under her. The room is small where I set up the incubators (a bit to small ito be honest) but has a heater controlled by a thermostat which comes in if the room temp drops below 20 c and it also has a number of small fans bringing in cool fresh air in, low down, and fans higher up takking hot warm air out, the fans also only come in if the temp goes above 25 c again controlled by a thermostat. I also use a good wieght loss chart which is very good and very easy to use designed by Paul Mckinder. They is also a humidifier running in the room all incubaters are run dry. except one in another room which is run wet, just incase it is needed. Eggs are drilled if needed. A few years back I brought a " first Class incubator" which developed several faults through out and cost me several eggs. Looking back I don't know why I did this needless to say its gone and back to the brinseas. I know they look cheap and nasty but you can run several, thus not putting all you're eggs in one basket so if one goes down you don't lose all you're eggs if you don't notice it has broke in time. The 2 bad things about the Oct 20's I have noticed the digital read out on the top is as much use as a chocolate fire guard. And they can not cope with temp changes in the incubator room especially as it drops cold in the night. Hence thats why I regulate my room.
Regards
Colin
Ps most eggs are set from day 1
Falconquester,
Many thanks for your reply,good to get feedback on other breeders experiences!
I have spot testers and noticed the octagons run .1 degree higher than the calibrated reading. My breeding quarters are not ideal, I hope to make some changes for next yr.
All the best,

Wolf

[Goshawks00]

Wolf neither of my Oct 20s match the setting on which they read 99.5 . One runs .2 high,one runs .3 high. I too have a calibrating thermometer which cost $145.00 american 3 years ago so I feel comfortable with the reading it says. You just have to compensate for the known difference.
Barry

[Kentish Falconry]

Wolf neither of my Oct 20s match the setting on which they read 99.5 . One runs .2 high,one runs .3 high. I too have a calibrating thermometer which cost $145.00 american 3 years ago so I feel comfortable with the reading it says. You just have to compensate for the known difference.
Barry

Absolutley Barry as long as you know what temperature reading you need on your incubator thermometer then you can run your Incubator at the correct temperature
Terry

[Afshimo]

just got to say this is a really interesting thread! I thought u just heat the egg and a few days later a chick! (My budgies did the job alright!)

Whats a good book to have a read up on with incubating and hatching, rearing etc?

Thanks!

[Wolf]

just got to say this is a really interesting thread! I thought u just heat the egg and a few days later a chick! (My budgies did the job alright!)

Whats a good book to have a read up on with incubating and hatching, rearing etc?

Thanks!
Hannah,
A book I found good was a study carried out by The Peregrine Fund Titled a Manuel of Captive Breeding. I sent a small donation to the centre in USA and they sent me the book. Alternatively book sellers like Martin Jones etc should stock copies.

Wolf

[Goshawks00]

Yes the Peregrine book is good but one i like better is "Practical Incubation" by Rob Harvey.
Barry

[Paco]

Hello again Terry, a few question for you ! :

1.- When you are going to put an egg in the incubator ( after it has been with a falcon in his first days of incubation) and it is with dust or mutes how do you clean or desinfect this.¿what product do you use, an do you do in hot or let the egg to cold.?

2.- What incubator will you choose to incubate an egg between the day 1 to final , if you have to choose only one for the entire incubation?

3.- What was the problem with Grumbach incubator? . I,m checking one and seems very acurate.I don,t recomend brinsea octagon 20 . i have lost some eggs because this incubator go to ambient temperature and it has happened to some friend too.

4.-Is there any distribuitor for Alpha Genesis in Europe?


Thanks a lot Terry!!!!!!!!!!

[Kentish Falconry]

Hello again Terry, a few question for you ! :

1.- When you are going to put an egg in the incubator ( after it has been with a falcon in his first days of incubation) and it is with dust or mutes how do you clean or desinfect this.&#191;what product do you use, an do you do in hot or let the egg to cold.?

I use Amprotect Egg Wash from Vetark 01962-880376 the temperature must always be slightly higher than the egg temperature, normally I would wash at 38 c allow to dry and put into incubator. It will not harm the egg to cool a little for a few mins. The reason for warmer water is that if you use colder water the egg draws inwards thus pulling in bacteria using warmer water takes the Bacteria away from the egg.

2.- What incubator will you choose to incubate an egg between the day 1 to final , if you have to choose only one for the entire incubation?

I would recomend using an AB Newlife 75 Mk6 with turning rollers and turning trays. I would keep the egg on the rollers untill it has had 15 days of incubation to ensure a good spread of veins and then put tip down in the turning trays untill you see draw down then put in a small dish (no turning) untill it pips then into Hatcher.

3.- What was the problem with Grumbach incubator? . I,m checking one and seems very acurate.I don,t recomend brinsea octagon 20 . i have lost some eggs because this incubator go to ambient temperature and it has happened to some friend too.

The grumbach had so many problems that I can't list them all the worst one was a thermostate jam that cooked 48 fertile eggs overnight. Also now the machine is running properly I have found with just using rollers I get a number of inverted pips.

4.-Is there any distribuitor for Alpha Genesis in Europe?

Unfortunatley there is no European Agent for Alpha Genisis (China Prairie) I was going to take this on myself but I would need to ship too many units to make it viable so the idea goy shelved. They will ship by UPS or Fedex at cost to any destination in the world but as I said before they are not cheap in the first place and when you add Freight and Import Duty unless you are Incubating very expensive eggs they are not cost efficient


Thanks a lot Terry!!!!!!!!!!
Hope that helps
Terry:supz:

[Falcon911]

Hello again Terry, a few question for you ! :

1.- When you are going to put an egg in the incubator ( after it has been with a falcon in his first days of incubation) and it is with dust or mutes how do you clean or desinfect this.¿what product do you use, an do you do in hot or let the egg to cold.?

2.- What incubator will you choose to incubate an egg between the day 1 to final , if you have to choose only one for the entire incubation?

3.- What was the problem with Grumbach incubator? . I,m checking one and seems very acurate.I don,t recomend brinsea octagon 20 . i have lost some eggs because this incubator go to ambient temperature and it has happened to some friend too.

4.-Is there any distribuitor for Alpha Genesis in Europe?


Thanks a lot Terry!!!!!!!!!!

I never wash eggs, I just carefully scrape mutes off with a sharp knife. Never had a problem doing this....
Rgds
Andy

[Paco]

Terry, i have some doubts:

Why don,t continue the eggs in the rollers after day 15? ¿ what,s the trays advantage?.

¿the position in "ab incubator" trays and alpha genesis is vertical turning 45 º left and right, like in poultry industrial incubators?.

¿when you put the eggs in trays after day 15 , how many turns does the incubator ? ¿ one per hour the machine and three more you by hand ?.

¿At what temperature do you incubate? ¿ do you maintain this stable all the time or do you go down at final incubation period ?

And what,s your prefer hatcher?

Sorry again for so many question and thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HawkMan69UK]

does any one leave theres under the birds and let them do it... or are we talking double clutching.....

[Goshawks00]

I do leave eggs under some birds I have confidnece in, and some I take in and run through the incubator.
Barry

[Goshawks00]

Terry , I'm sorry you ask me what Alpha I use and I didn't get back to you. It too, is an Alpha 2500.
Barry

[Paco]

Hello, Terry ¿ And what temperature and humidity do you prefer in the hatcher?

Thanks !

[Paco]

And ¿do you think the vertical position in trays turning 45º , is better than octagon horizontal position turning 45º, and what is the advantage?

Thanks!!

[RobCole66]

i use 3 brinsea oct 20"s , & 1 novatol for hatching (i can get the rh as i as i need with the novatol ) . I have been running paul mackinders weightloss charts for 3years or so , and would not be without it EXELLENT , last year we bred just under sixty youngsters , so it works :D

rob cole........

[Falcons7]

I use contax for 14 or so days then into Grumbach for he rest.Humitity is as is what it is and I drill holes into the eggs if to high in weight and into a small wet curfew if needed but very few go down this rout.

[Hawkmaster]

Gosh reading all that makes me dis-heartened at the amount to learn:( But very interesting guys, thanks.

[Gosman_2]

I use the same incubator from start to finnish ;-) its called the imprint f/male gos :supz: oh it feeds the the chicks aswell:roll:

[Altai]

I've incubated eggs both artificially, and with bantams, and the best results have been with the latter, who don't monitor weight loss, turn regularly every hour, set the eggs on points at 15 days, nor stop turning at pipping. I know it's a trite aphorism, but does anyone think, as I do, that nature's way can't really be bettered?

What bedding do you use with the bantams while they are sitting?

[MattSpar]

What bedding do you use with the bantams while they are sitting?

In view of the fact I have just had a 100% hatch rate of merlin eggs using a broody, some details may be of interest.

I have had a lot of experience using broodies (see the thread "Merlins anyone?"), having hatched thousands of eggs, though these were the first raptor eggs.

My broodies are my own strain of small, delicate pekin bantams, delicate enough to sit starling eggs and successfully hatch them. I have incubators, both still air and fan assisted, but frankly I've always had better results using hens (much, much better).

I treated the broody and the merlin eggs as I would any other sitting of eggs. The sitting box, a square plywood box 12"X12"X12" with a hinged drop front, a felted roof, and no bottom (made in adjoining pairs) was sited outside, directly on the ground, on the north side of a building, thus avoiding the heat of the midday sun. Though in a sheltered spot, they are not covered in any way.
A depression is scraped in the soil and soft hay used to form a rough nest. The broody is placed quietly in the box in the evening, on a couple of ordinary bantam eggs, and will usually walk straight on and sit of her own accord. The following afternoon she is let out for half an hour to feed, stretch, and defecate, during which time the dummies are replaced with the real McCoy. After the allotted time, the broody is carried back to the box, placed on the ground and allowed to walk onto the eggs. Initially, she would be confined to a small run during her time off the eggs. Later she would be left at liberty to indulge in a broody's favourite off-the-nest passtime of dust bathing.
This is all that is required, every day at the same time, till the eggs pip. There's no need to turn the eggs yourself, monitor the weight loss, or anything else except candle them to check fertility. The broody does it all.

[Altai]

In view of the fact I have just had a 100% hatch rate of merlin eggs using a broody, some details may be of interest.

I have had a lot of experience using broodies (see the thread "Merlins anyone?"), having hatched thousands of eggs, though these were the first raptor eggs.

My broodies are my own strain of small, delicate pekin bantams, delicate enough to sit starling eggs and successfully hatch them. I have incubators, both still air and fan assisted, but frankly I've always had better results using hens (much, much better).

I treated the broody and the merlin eggs as I would any other sitting of eggs. The sitting box, a square plywood box 12"X12"X12" with a hinged drop front, a felted roof, and no bottom (made in adjoining pairs) was sited outside, directly on the ground, on the north side of a building, thus avoiding the heat of the midday sun. Though in a sheltered spot, they are not covered in any way.
A depression is scraped in the soil and soft hay used to form a rough nest. The broody is placed quietly in the box in the evening, on a couple of ordinary bantam eggs, and will usually walk straight on and sit of her own accord. The following afternoon she is let out for half an hour to feed, stretch, and defecate, during which time the dummies are replaced with the real McCoy. After the allotted time, the broody is carried back to the box, placed on the ground and allowed to walk onto the eggs. Initially, she would be confined to a small run during her time off the eggs. Later she would be left at liberty to indulge in a broody's favourite off-the-nest passtime of dust bathing.
This is all that is required, every day at the same time, till the eggs pip. There's no need to turn the eggs yourself, monitor the weight loss, or anything else except candle them to check fertility. The broody does it all.

Is it important to have the nest direct onto the soil (humidity)?
I have seen an american video where the nest boxs were chest high (perhaps for security against vermin) with a 3 inch layer of corn cob litter as the nest.
What is your opinion.
Thanks.

[MattSpar]

Is it important to have the nest direct onto the soil (humidity)?
I have seen an american video where the nest boxs were chest high (perhaps for security against vermin) with a 3 inch layer of corn cob litter as the nest.
What is your opinion.
Thanks.

I would say yes, directly on the ground. I have read Tom Cade's "Falcon propagation" and they too do as you describe, but this is only for the first ten days or so, before the eggs are transferred to an incubator.
If you read a copy, you'll see it stated that "Seven to ten days of natural incubation is considered beneficial". Ok, so why not the entire incubation period? Is it not beneficial after this time? Of course it is.
I don't claim to be an expert on this, but I've hatched thousands of eggs in both incubators and under broodies. I've also had a pretty good scientific education. More than enough to be able to quantify and evaluate comparative results, and the results are not only better under broodies, but a very great deal so.
In the case of my merlins, I also reasoned that a broody in a sitting box directly on the ground was a pretty good approximation of a wild nest site, merlins being ground nesters on the whole.
The thing with broodies is that in average weather conditions they can just be left to get on with things. In an incubator, different species of egg need different treatment, yet I have successfully hatched game birds (ground nesters), geese, duck, moorhens and coots (waterfowl), tawny owl, jackdaw and starling (hole nesters) using exactly the same technique.

It's something of a trite aphorism (and horribly unscientific), but Nature really does know best.

[MattSpar]

I should add to the above post, one or two people have told me their broody hens would foul the nest with their droppings. This is simply due to mismanagement of the broody. Regularity in all things to do with them is the key. If let off their eggs at the same time each day, they will not do this. Diet is also important. Sitting hens should be fed a diet of mixed poultry corn, not pelleted foods.

[Altai]

I should add to the above post, one or two people have told me their broody hens would foul the nest with their droppings. This is simply due to mismanagement of the broody. Regularity in all things to do with them is the key. If let off their eggs at the same time each day, they will not do this. Diet is also important. Sitting hens should be fed a diet of mixed poultry corn, not pelleted foods.

excellent information,thanks.

[Hawkmaster]

The sitting box, a square plywood box 12"X12"X12" with a hinged drop front, a felted roof, and no bottom (made in adjoining pairs) was sited outside, directly on the ground, on the north side of a building, thus avoiding the heat of the midday sun.
Matt could you show us a picture of it please?
Paul

[MattSpar]

Matt could you show us a picture of it please?
Paul


Yes of course. Just give me a little time. I'm busy feeding a pile of merlins.

[MattSpar]

Ok. These show the sitting boxes I use, with broodies in residence, and showing the simple nest with a clutch of eggs, grey partridge in this case.

[DeadDogs]

Very interesting.Thanks.

[MattSpar]

I should perhaps add, I don't use broodies merely as a second line of defence if an incubator is not available. I tend to use them in preference.