to pull or not?

[Onyx25]

Question for those of you with a bit more experience about breeding hawks from natural pairs. My pair of birds have laid for what I believe is the first time, very early for their species which normally lay end of June. The male to my knowledge has not copulated probably because its so early. with the weather being so cold and dark should I pull the eggs and hope for some sunshine to bring him in for the second clutch or being her first time give her a youngster to raise and hope for next year?

[Falcon911]

As a general rule I wouldn't interfere with first timers. Unless you can go through hours of cctv tape you might be surprised!
If they are infertile as you say I'd give her a youngster which should help set them up for next year.
See all you non breeders - possibly another year passing without producing anything........!!!

[Brit-Gos]

Falcon911, exactly what i did last season. Even though i saw the male copulating the eggs where infertile, so after the female had gone well over the hatching date i exchanged the eggs for a harris chick and both birds raised the chick. Got my fingers crossed for this year only trouble is this bloody weather.

[Falcon911]

Fingers crossed then......

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

I'd pull recycle then candle. With this you would still have the option of providing a chick if he dosent copulate. With the added bonus of not wasting a year and having in your mind what ifs.

[Falcon911]

Anyone else on here tried double clutching first timers and what happened?

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

Question for those of you with a bit more experience about breeding hawks from natural pairs. My pair of birds have laid for what I believe is the first time, very early for their species which normally lay end of June. The male to my knowledge has not copulated probably because its so early. with the weather being so cold and dark should I pull the eggs and hope for some sunshine to bring him in for the second clutch or being her first time give her a youngster to raise and hope for next year?

The same here, we never pull from birds if it is their first year, if you want to pull to see if they are fertile or if you want to use incubators I would replace the eggs with dummies.
If you can get hold of a chick or two it would be perfect for bonding the pair, plenty of people are looking for foster parents for their first clutches. Including us!

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Anyone else on here tried double clutching first timers and what happened?
I have one less in second clutch, last two fertile.

[MitchellBrad]

Anyone else on here tried double clutching first timers and what happened?

I have and had excellent results. On the other hand, there always is a qualifier, much of this would depend on the age of the falcon and time of year she laid. Those birds that laid early, for here, were first time layers and 3 yrs or older I have double clutched provided their first clutch was infertile. 2 yr old peregrines that laid aren't double clutched though I have AI'ed them and caught the last egg. They usually lay smaller clutches and rarely recycle, a few do though. In my mind if you have a first time breeder who laid and the eggs were infertile then why not double clutch her again priovided she's not too young and didn't lay too late. It gives her and the tiercel a chance to go through the courtship all over again. I'm wrestling with this right now. I have a pair that has been together about a month. They have a scrape and are doing all the courtship stuff. The tiercel is trying to copulate, he's copulated with her sister in the two previous seasons. They hatched and raised eyeases. The question is, Will this pair do it or will they need to be double clutched? All I need is a falcon to fly if there are fertile eggs to see if the breeding is any good.

Much of this is a judgement call on the breeder. I've noticed with some older breeders I've double clutched often the female will let the tiercel do way too much of the incubating with disasterous results.

Non illigitamus carborundum

[Falcon911]

Hi Brad,

Presumably you think there are some negative effects if you double clutch first timers only if their eggs are infertile? Why not double clutch them even if they are fertile?
I'm not trying to pick fault, just wondering what you think the pitfalls are so that I can reconsider my actions in the future.

Regards
Andy

[MitchellBrad]

Hi Andy,

I'm sorry, I should have explained myself. I don't use incubators anymore. The birds hatch and raise their eyeases without any interference from me. I've double clutched first timers in the past but until I went this route it was often iffy if birds would copulate.

Double clutching is a natural and normal mechanism in the wild so I don't have any problem with it in captivity provided your birds are raised "right" In other words pairs with one or both with behavioral problems might suffer. If they are allowed to go through the courtship, incubation and eyeas rearing this might prevent any unexpected problems in the future.

Brad

[Onyx25]

Thanks for all the advise guys, gonna take them as she has only laid two when there should be 4+ and they are 3 months early.The male has started to wake up and she should have loads of time to lay again my only worry is if she dosen't recycle I can't give her a chick to raise?

[Sprout]

The same here, we never pull from birds if it is their first year, if you want to pull to see if they are fertile or if you want to use incubators I would replace the eggs with dummies.
If you can get hold of a chick or two it would be perfect for bonding the pair, plenty of people are looking for foster parents for their first clutches. Including us!
I'd offer my services to foster any spare Gyrs you may have spare????? Although it would be a human foster parent!!!:oops: :oops: