"Private" & Commercial Sales

[Hacker]

TAKEN FROM A SPLIT THREAD
Still to many "private" commercial sales going on though.

[Hacker]

I should not have to report them as it is not my job, but i feel in light of the push to finance the forum it amazes me that some of us have to pay to advertise when others peddle their wares with no constraint.
I am not bothered from the business side but feel that the forum members are being cheated out of revenue that could keep the site afloat rather than having to donate cash.

[Dave G]

I should not have to report them as it is not my job, but i feel in light of the push to finance the forum it amazes me that some of us have to pay to advertise when others peddle their wares with no constraint.
I am not bothered from the business side but feel that the forum members are being cheated out of revenue that could keep the site afloat rather than having to donate cash.
well said hacker so if you guys/girls are selling go throu the right channels to sell your stuff ;)

[Hacker]

Let me put it another way, unless equipment or birds sold is either secondhand or old then it is obviously for commercial gain.
If you breed a clutch of birds to sell then that is commercial gain, if you make equipment to sell that is commercial gain.
You do not breed birds and just happen to have a couple left over, or gear.
If this forum wants to survive then i feel it has to come into the real world and charge for advertising.
That is where most forums gain their revenue without having to charge the user , "visitor".
If people wish to make financial gain then why should the majority finance this?
If you advertise you pay, no question?

[Renton]

Let me put it another way, unless equipment or birds sold is either secondhand or old then it is obviously for commercial gain.
If you breed a clutch of birds to sell then that is commercial gain, if you make equipment to sell that is commercial gain.
You do not breed birds and just happen to have a couple left over, or gear.
If this forum wants to survive then i feel it has to come into the real world and charge for advertising.
That is where most forums gain their revenue without having to charge the user , "visitor".
If people wish to make financial gain then why should the majority finance this?
If you advertise you pay, no question?

Hear, hear.

[UKJay's Nursey]

hacker pm'd ya ,re banner

[Sean]

what about nehh thread, what will be you charging, surely tehres a few free plugs, and nobody is paying. so how are you meant to get around this?

[Hacker]

still to many "private" commercial sales going on though.
Well, any views on this little hot potatoe?

[Renton]

Well, any views on this little hot potatoe?

I'm on your side m8!

[Hacker]

Strange, seems the management are not for some reason.
Any other site you have to pay to advertise.
This is how sites make there money and survive.
When i tried to sell something it was pointed out that i should become a sponsor as it was a form of advertising, which i agreed to do.
But it seems i have to pay to sell whilst others do not.
Now i cannot see the logic in that and will probably stop sponsoring this site and just become a member again with the odd bit of gear to sell.
So the Forum will lose yet more revenue.
Definetley a strange situation?

[Renton]

Strange, seems the management are not for some reason.
Any other site you have to pay to advertise.
This is how sites make there money and survive.
When i tried to sell something it was pointed out that i should become a sponsor as it was a form of advertising, which i agreed to do.
But it seems i have to pay to sell whilst others do not.
Now i cannot see the logic in that and will probably stop sponsoring this site and just become a member again with the odd bit of gear to sell.
So the Forum will lose yet more revenue.
Definetley a strange situation?

I'm quite happy to go off on another rant to support you Richard; you have made some very valid points. Just say the word m8 and the forum dissident will spring into action! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[UKJay74]

At the end of the day if ANYONE makes a commercial gain from selling NEW items on a regular basis, even back yard breeders. they should be approached and charged (at the right sort of cost) in relation to the size of business/sales they are making
after edit

what is meant by this is the people that post 1 or two ads up charged such an amount
people that advertise all there wares eevery other day in a week should be charged more
end of the day some people that sell new items infrequently are not in the league of the proper business men

[Renton]

At the end of the day if ANYONE makes a commercial gain from selling NEW items on a regular basis, even back yard breeders. they should be approached and charged (at the right sort of cost) in relation to the size of business/sales they are making


Hacker is up front in being a commercial enterprise. He does not hide that fact and he pays for the privilege on this forum. Why should he be disadvantaged by those who cannot be bothered to pay the forum fees to trade?

[UKJay74]

Hacker is up front in being a commercial enterprise. He does not hide that fact and he pays for the privilege on this forum. Why should he be disadvantaged by those who cannot be bothered to pay the forum fees to trade?
i know hacker is upfront what i meant to say was that there should be a pay scale in place . you know similar to council tax sort of thing those who earn a mint pay so much to advertise those who earn less from business pay less
in which you have top end breeders paying xxx and back yard breeders paying x so to speak

i do think commercial dealers should pay but a relative cost to advertise should be in place:supz:

[Renton]

I think that if anyone wants to trade, on a regular basis, on this site they should have to pay the regular fees and identify themselves as traders.

[UKJay74]

I think that if anyone wants to trade, on a regular basis, on this site they should have to pay the regular fees and identify themselves as traders.

very true mate if you have to pay for advertising as your commercial then cost of advertising should be there.

IMO if your harrods you pay harrods rates if your joe blow from the corner shop you pay his rate ... only my opinion though:D

[Harris]

i know hacker is upfront what i meant to say was that there should be a pay scale in place . you know similar to council tax sort of thing those who earn a mint pay so much to advertise those who earn less from business pay less
in which you have top end breeders paying xxx and back yard breeders paying x so to speak

i do think commercial dealers should pay but a relative cost to advertise should be in place:supz:


Sorry to sound sceptical but how would that work, would they have to submit their accounts or tax returns? lol :yawinkle: :lol:

[Hacker]

My sentiments, if you sell a bird on the IBR or Falcons.com or wherever you have to pay for the priveledge, or equipment, this is how they survive, by earning revenue.
Everyone is worried about the forum going down the pan, but are they?
Surely, if you feel you get a good deal with the forum then why would people baulk at the thought of paying say a tenner to sell a bird for hundreds!
Some of the birds for sale on here are on the IBR as well, the difference, they had to pay to advertise!

[Renton]

IMO if your harrods you pay harrods rates if your joe blow from the corner shop you pay his rate ... only my opinion though:D

Not quite Harrods here! :lol: I still maintain that if if you want to trade/advertise on this site, fees are due.

[UKJay74]

Sorry to sound sceptical but how would that work, would they have to submit their accounts or tax returns? lol :yawinkle: :lol:
simple logic really if they are known as a few are on here the admin knows the scale of operations
does it take much to figure out your raptor propogation farm from joe blow in such a street??

[HoumaFalconer]

I Agree, Good Job

[Kentish Falconry]

Hacker is up front in being a commercial enterprise. He does not hide that fact and he pays for the privilege on this forum. Why should he be disadvantaged by those who cannot be bothered to pay the forum fees to trade?

This has been my argument for some time now but Admin will not listen to me.
I agree with Richard (Hacker) on this point as I pay as well as a sponsor. Anyone advertising for commercial gain should pay for the advert if you have 1 pair of birds or 20 pairs it makes no difference, you should still pay if it were Cage & Aviary Birds or the IBR would they let you advertise for free? would the Tax man accept that you don't have to pay tax on money coming in?
If you want to advertise a number of bird it is only fair that you should give something back to the Forum and not just look for a free advert
Terry

[Pitbull]

what would it be for those that breed ferrets every year and advertise once every year. Look at a coupla weeks back ferrets for £15 all sold, but it might only be 1 jill 1 year. Another says he has kits no price but may have 4 jills...:?:
Or bloody hell pups. £800 each time that by say 6 would they have to pay for that. that may only happen once a year, but there may be someone that sells gloves for £25 but only sell 20..:?:

[Renton]

Spot on Terry!

[Hacker]

Sorry to sound sceptical but how would that work, would they have to submit their accounts or tax returns? lol :yawinkle: :lol:
Well in business if a person has an item to sell and it is only a one off, then that could be seen as to be seen a private sale.
But , if the same individual had more than one of the same item for sale then that would be seen as commercial.
Commercial advertisers pay to be sponsors that give them the opportunity to advertise to the forum members. This is "Revenue" the lifeblood of sites like this.
Classified advertisements could be banded, ie items up to £50.00 £2.50 per month, up to £100 £5.00 per month etc. etc.
No body is out to "DO" anybody, but we should all be willing to pay our way, after all there is no such thing as a free society.
I am afraid i do not agree with needing donations to keep the site afloat when the advertising could bring in revenue as long as it is controlled.
Why should a member "donate" whilst another mamber does not and also pushes goods for sale on the site for their own financial gain?

[Pitbull]

since we have a DONOR logo can there not be a SPONSOR logo for you chaps i think that would say it nice and clear for all to see.

[Pitbull]

Well in business if a person has an item to sell and it is only a one off, then that could be seen as to be seen a private sale.
But , if the same individual had more than one of the same item for sale then that would be seen as commercial.
Commercial advertisers pay to be sponsors that give them the opportunity to advertise to the forum members. This is "Revenue" the lifeblood of sites like this.
Classified advertisements could be banded, ie items up to £50.00 £2.50 per month, up to £100 £5.00 per month etc. etc.
No body is out to "DO" anybody, but we should all be willing to pay our way, after all there is no such thing as a free society.
I am afraid i do not agree with needing donations to keep the site afloat when the advertising could bring in revenue as long as it is controlled.
Why should a member "donate" whilst another mamber does not and also pushes goods for sale on the site for their own financial gain?


well said. i have too agree with you there.

[Hacker]

what would it be for those that breed ferrets every year and advertise once every year. Look at a coupla weeks back ferrets for £15 all sold, but it might only be 1 jill 1 year. Another says he has kits no price but may have 4 jills...:?:
Or bloody hell pups. £800 each time that by say 6 would they have to pay for that. that may only happen once a year, but there may be someone that sells gloves for £25 but only sell 20..:?:
But can`t you see, this is commercial gain irrespective of the size of the operation?
Can i sell 20 gloves before i have to pay my sponsor fees, do you think that is fair?

[UKJay's Nursey]

totaly agree with you hacker

[UKJay74]

Well in business if a person has an item to sell and it is only a one off, then that could be seen as to be seen a private sale.
But , if the same individual had more than one of the same item for sale then that would be seen as commercial.
Commercial advertisers pay to be sponsors that give them the opportunity to advertise to the forum members. This is "Revenue" the lifeblood of sites like this.
Classified advertisements could be banded, ie items up to £50.00 £2.50 per month, up to £100 £5.00 per month etc. etc.
No body is out to "DO" anybody, but we should all be willing to pay our way, after all there is no such thing as a free society.
I am afraid i do not agree with needing donations to keep the site afloat when the advertising could bring in revenue as long as it is controlled.
Why should a member "donate" whilst another mamber does not and also pushes goods for sale on the site for their own financial gain?
Spot on mate upto a certain amount to advertise commercially so much beyond that another amount basically if you only sell the odd thing even comercial the cost to advertise should be minimal if your selling thousands of pounds of gear then you pay the price to advertise. that it, its not rocket science:supz:

[Pitbull]

But can`t you see, this is commercial gain irrespective of the size of the operation?
Can i sell 20 gloves before i have to pay my sponsor fees, do you think that is fair?


i agree with you. a sale is a sale. the free mags make money from the seller not the buyer.

[Hacker]

My sentiments exactley, advertising is the blood of the forum, it should be controlled, to many people selling to many goods without supporting the site that feeds them!

[Kentish Falconry]

what would it be for those that breed ferrets every year and advertise once every year. Look at a coupla weeks back ferrets for £15 all sold, but it might only be 1 jill 1 year. Another says he has kits no price but may have 4 jills...:?:
Or bloody hell pups. £800 each time that by say 6 would they have to pay for that. that may only happen once a year, but there may be someone that sells gloves for £25 but only sell 20..:?:

I can see what you are saying but there has to be a line drawn, lets say you advertise a clutch of Peregrine chicks 4 birds sell for £2500 the lot is it fair that the breeder should advertise for free and make a profit and the Forum gets not 1p from the advert. All we are asking is lets be fair at the end of the day if you are making £2500 profit what is £10 out of that to the Forum?
We understand that if you have a litter of Ferrets and sell them at £5.00 each then you are not making a profit but if you sell a litter of 6 pups for £500 each that is £3000 how hard is it to pay the Forum £10 for the advert. Sorry I feel stongly about this matter and that is why I paid to be a Sponsor or I could have just advertised by stealth methods and still sold my birds
Terry:supz:

[Hacker]

Terry,
I agree with you, my thoughts the same.

[Pitbull]

i would have too say terry If you are selling ferrets you are making a profit as i have ferrets but use a hoblet i still have to pay to feed them and the op so there making more money than me.
an ad is an ad

[UKJay74]

simple fact if you earn less than a couple of hundred a year WHY should you pay the same costs as a top end breeder for advertising??? Once again the advertising costs need to be placed on an earnings scale so to speak

also mods this is way off the topic of improved moderating how about a split???

[Pitbull]

cool

[Harris]

I do agree, although it would be difficult to do it on a sliding scale basis, it would be better to base advert costs on a pay per week basis, that way joe bloggs with his ferrets once a year would take out a weeks advert etc, but commercial sales who sell year round would take out adverts over much longer periods, therefore in my opinion it is a much fairer system, what do you think? would it work?

[Hacker]

I do not feel it is down to size of business as we all have to work to profit margins, ie more sales mean more overheads , mean equal margins.
Besides the large breeder should be a sponsor, trade should not be allowed to
advertise in classifieds.
Follow the leads of all the local newspapers.

[UKJay74]

I do not feel it is down to size of business as we all have to work to profit margins, ie more sales mean more overheads , mean equal margins.
Besides the large breeder should be a sponsor, trade should not be allowed to
advertise in classifieds.
Follow the leads of all the local newspapers.

what about commercial pay to sponsor and trade pay for week by week access??
this could put a hold on a lot of problems

[Harris]

Ultimately it isn't down to us how its done, I suppose HM has tha last say as it's his site. Would be interesting to hear his take on it tho!

[Pitbull]

most business ad are done by the size i thought but on here unless you are actually advertising on a page how can you split it fairly,
full page
1/2 page
1/4 page etc, etc,

value is a hard one also, based on selling different items.
you may sell an item for £1000 but only be making £50 on it
someone else sells an item for £500 but makes £100,
Ok it all depends on what profit you are wanting to take

[Hacker]

Commercial means to make, sell, barter or trade for profit,
private sale means to sell, for private gain only.
Ie a one off, old book, rare stamp, old falconry glove, etc ie not for monetary commercial gain.
Not having a puppy farm or hawk farm.
If you wish to sell a litter of pups fine, but pay the classified rate for private sellers, i am not in business to support the free loaders.

[Pitbull]

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12959#post293229

[Harris]

Heres an idea, Most commercial sales people will have a website, so that seperates them from the private sales people, could that not be used as a basis for a split in sellers?

[Pitbull]

what about the wanted adds

should these pay

[UKJay74]

most business ad are done by the size i thought but on here unless you are actually advertising on a page how can you split it fairly,
full page
1/2 page
1/4 page etc, etc,

value is a hard one also, based on selling different items.
you may sell an item for £1000 but only be making £50 on it
someone else sells an item for £500 but makes £100,
Ok it all depends on what profit you are wanting to take

i used to work in advertising freelance on a graphics side but got to talk to a few sales people and agreed
full
1/2
1/4
pages or boards and i have to say they weren't cheap specially compared to the likes of advertising in a newspaper and the likes but being the p.c geek i saw the reports coming in as to which advert did the most papers were well down ....


10000's of people saw the billboard as they do the iff so who is in charge of advertising on the iff do they have experience and can they capture custom???

[Hacker]

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12959#post293229
Exactly, so if Chris wishes to s=advertises the pups for sale then pay a classified fee.

[Kentish Falconry]

i would have too say terry If you are selling ferrets you are making a profit as i have ferrets but use a hoblet i still have to pay to feed them and the op so there making more money than me.
an ad is an ad

Hi again M8 you are missing my point. If you are making a big profit then how hard is it to give the Forum a few quid from that profit if you are breaking even then this is not commercial.
I am talking about breeders that earn £1000's a year from their birds not someone who is selling a few Ferets for at best £50 when they have paid £25 to rear them and keep the adults for a year.
A clutch of Harris Hawks can bring in some good money if you double clutch then you can earn even more, all we ask is be fair if you have made some good sales from advertising on the IFF then pleaae give a litle to help fund the work done by the Forum
As you know the Forum needs money to run that money has to come from somewhere so why not help the Forum we all use it and we all try to help each other out with tips and hints so why not give a little from a profit to help us all
Terry:supz:

[Hacker]

Maybe paying advertisers, either trade or private could be given a mark so people know they are dealing with a reputibale member that is paying their dues to the overall running and survival of the forum?

[Harris]

Heres another issue, EBAY how do you moderate items sold on ebay but advertised here?

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12976

[Pitbull]

oh i understand tery, but if i was advertising on the forum i would be expecting to pay no matter what.

hence why we dont mind donating me and the wife..same computer ...same house...different members but still pay under different member names, and hopefully this would compensate as such if anyone from the forum had the wife make a glove for them.

but alot of people have the beleif that the internet should be a place to get free info, and the likes

[UKJay's Nursey]

at the end of the day then in that theory shouldnt you pay more than you have from the sales you made earlier this in Jan ie £25 donation for at least over £1000 if sales, before you were a sponsor as when you posted your ad (which kept getting bumped by people buying birds)quite a few sales were made.

[Kevin Massey]

A clutch of Harris Hawks can bring in some good money

on other threads this statement is argued... seeing that a clutch of say 4 females @ £350 would generate £1400 then you take away the costs of housing parents, feeding ,vets (insurance even)...then time etc....

with not being interested in breeding whatsoever....nor making / selling anything ...i am un-bias as to speek.

what i would worry about is say tims thread on roz....that great thread could end up with young gosses... yep tim would'nt be selling them here anyhow.... but im sure someone will raise the question.
Also ben's excelent thread on making bells....very informative on how he is doing...how to make them etc...once again i feel some one will raise questions ...expecialy if some one says "can i buy some" for instance.

this is a tough dilemma for the admin and i know they do monitor it....and im sure no questions raised are "ignored" maybe you have not had the reply you were wanting...or no dissisions have been made.

maybe the route as far as clasified ad's should go down the path of... £5.00 per single advert...containing no more than 500 words..for 1 month run...this advert would be locked off .. after one month woule expire and removed...done
maybe also any goods under say £25 would come under "free ad's".... other than the fee.... same rule applies with selling only item per ad...500 words...and only run for 1 week say

just suggestions thats all and also a few concerns about threads that may get effected aswell..... not saying i am against the issue that is being raised.

[Shannor]

That's exactly how my local 'classifieds' work. Anything under $25 sale value is advertised free, anything over is charged according to the sale price of the item, regardless of how many. You can put many items in your free advertisement, but it has to be within the word limit of the free-add (which I think is two hundred words).

So, just to clarify, if you're selling four items for $3000 a piece, you only pay for the ad, not the number of things in the ad, as long as those items are all the same item (not different items).

Meanwhile, with the free ad, you can sell five different items for under $25 value, but not have to pay to advertise.

I hope that made sense.

[Hawkmaster]

Well this has given me loads to think about and I think the plans I am going to go along may scare most people, but everyone will need to bare with me when it happens.

I am however open to MORE suggestions and I will take in and absorb all the input as I do with everything said by the members.

[Matthew Symons]

I feel that any person who is selling an item (commercially) must be prepaired to make a donation of somekind. The advertiser selling the product will reflect the cost of advertising (and his/her overheads) in the price of that product item.
Hence this is a standard form of business transaction and any commrcial venture will be used to paying for a unique form of advertising. ie falconry related products on iff !

[Yarak1]

I can see what you are saying but there has to be a line drawn, lets say you advertise a clutch of Peregrine chicks 4 birds sell for £2500 the lot is it fair that the breeder should advertise for free and make a profit and the Forum gets not 1p from the advert. All we are asking is lets be fair at the end of the day if you are making £2500 profit what is £10 out of that to the Forum?
We understand that if you have a litter of Ferrets and sell them at £5.00 each then you are not making a profit but if you sell a litter of 6 pups for £500 each that is £3000 how hard is it to pay the Forum £10 for the advert. Sorry I feel stongly about this matter and that is why I paid to be a Sponsor or I could have just advertised by stealth methods and still sold my birds
Terry:supz:


Terry, why don't all the people with centres, breeders and commercial equipment makers on here donate say £100 as a one off per year!! That's less than £2 per week....After all we all get good free advertising..... Then there would be no argument over who is doing what...........Those that don't want to pay don't sell or advertise, simple as that.........Cheers, John.

[Stewigan]

i advertise in the local free paper and it cost me £90 a month wether you get any calls or not,

[Hacker]

All you need is a structured Classified sales section with a tiered charge system.
This way if you want to sell an item you pay the fee.
Fair to everyone.
The forum gets funding, and if you do not want to pay to sell an item then don`t make it or breed it, or expect some other mug to subsidise you!
Down here we call them Freeloaders or Parasites.
So anyone that`s selling anything through this forum stand up and get your hands in your pockets.

[Tim Laycock]

I make hoods, people approach me to buy them though I dont place advertisements on the site.

Do I need to be a sponsor :?:

I make bow perches, people approach me to buy them though I dont place adverisements on the site.

Do I need to be a sponsor :?:

I placed a link to one of my Ebay items once, partly to hilight how dangerous all the tat on Ebay is.

Was I going against site policy :?:

<btw> I have made jack **** all profit :rolleyes:

[Renton]

I make hoods, people approach me to buy them though I dont place advertisements on the site.

Do I need to be a sponsor :?:

I make bow perches, people approach me to buy them though I dont place adverisements on the site.

Do I need to be a sponsor :?:



Probably not, as you are not actually offering anything for sale on this forum.
Although your post could be construed as advertising! :lol: :lol:

[GaryPCO]

dont see why joe public should be charged,all the other hunting sites are free as long as you're a good contributer to the site and not just on line to make money,then it should be free,yes i breed the odd litter,by law i dont breed more than five litters a year so im not classed as commercial,at the moment im trying to build kennels so any extra cash coming in will go towards my animals/birds in fact almost all the cash i make goes into the sport i love,with out id struggle i dont feel we should pay,i advertise here becouse my stock has more chance going to a decent working home,i try not to advertise in the local papers it attracts the wrong people,theres a big difference commercially in a retail store to someone scratching a few quid.......

[Saker-Clive]

I to, like Blackbird, make my own equipment and occaisionally offer them on here or I put a link to the ebay advert up.

I do not make a living on the back of what I do as my 'hobby' so should I pay to show my wares?

I think that this is the main line of concern; IF a person is running a business and making a living or a substantial income from what they are doing, then yes, they should be charged sponsorship.

[StormRider]

There is a simple way to get passed all these so called problems.
The site should have a number of other sections:

There should be a section for business, where they pay to place an overall advert about their business. There could be a monthly charge or a yearly charge.
There should also be an additional private classified section for individuals to sell single or multiple items. If a private individual wants to advertise, then say that and advert costs &#163;5 per item. If a trader wants to advertise on this section then they should pay more for their advertisement and should also identify themselves as a trader. If a trader already has a main business advert in the other section, then tough. They also have to pay to advertise individual items within the classified section aswell.
Site sponsorship should be scrapped completely and businesses can provide money via the cost paid by their business advert.

Based on all of this, the moderators should be scanning all threads to identify if businesses or individuals are selling through their postings on threads. If they are then they should be given three strikes and out.

If moderators can scan all threads for swear words and daft banter then this should prove no problem to them.

A very simple system that is easily policed. Every one benefits and the forum threads are used for what they should be, and that is to talk about falconry and associated matters.

STU

[Hacker]

If someone makes goods and then tells everyone about this and then goes on to sell some then effectively they have advertised the fact that they are making and selling the same.
As has been stated elsewhere "classifieds" if you want to sell something put it on the classified page and make a small payment for the benefit of the forum that has provided you with the oppoertunity to talk about and maybe sell such items.
And as for this oh i do not make anything out of it, i do it for the love of my fellow mankind, get real.
I only do it to pay for my sport, is another one, well thats what i go to work for, i buy things and i sell things by advertising the fact, so i have to pay to advertise in order to pay for my sport!
Forget trade advertisers as they pay for their advertising.
We are talking about the non trade sellers.
Why do people advertise the same things on the likes of the IBR and other sites where they pay and try to sell them on here for nothing?
It boils down to wether people wish the forum to succeed because without some form of revenue there will be a very big plughole waiting.

[StormRider]

Hacker - Im sorry mate but why should traders be left alone? Also why should someone be given the opportunity to donate if they sell on the classifieds? If anything is introduced as an option then human nature will dictate that someone will take the easier option and not donate.
It is very easy for the owners of this site to enforce a point of payment prior to advertising. Traders should always pay the premium rate cause thats the nature of owning a business.
Also, traders should be stopped advertising their wares within postings, cause again this is free advertising that they should not be entitled to. As far as site sponsorship is concerned, this should not preclude you from placing a correct advertisement within a correctly named traders section.
STU

[Jack Merlin]

If someone makes goods and then tells everyone about this and then goes on to sell some then effectively they have advertised the fact that they are making and selling the same.
As has been stated elsewhere "classifieds" if you want to sell something put it on the classified page and make a small payment for the benefit of the forum that has provided you with the oppoertunity to talk about and maybe sell such items.
And as for this oh i do not make anything out of it, i do it for the love of my fellow mankind, get real.
I only do it to pay for my sport, is another one, well thats what i go to work for, i buy things and i sell things by advertising the fact, so i have to pay to advertise in order to pay for my sport!
Forget trade advertisers as they pay for their advertising.
We are talking about the non trade sellers.
Why do people advertise the same things on the likes of the IBR and other sites where they pay and try to sell them on here for nothing?
It boils down to wether people wish the forum to succeed because without some form of revenue there will be a very big plughole waiting.

There's another side to this.

I am a professional writer. How about the forum paying ME for my words!!!<g> International Falconer, etc. has in the past!

OK, I'm kidding. But many a true word spoken in jest.

The correct way, in my opinion, for a newsgroup to raise revenue is by way of commecial sponsorship. Like the banner at the top right hand corner of this page.

Maybe Robert Bagley of Marshall Telemetry would like to contribute? He must have got a fair bit of advertising from his thread on telemetry -- and he can well afford it.

Anyone paying money for "advertising" will have to consider the likely return on his money. That is likely to benefit these big guys more than the little guy selling the occasional bow perch. Just another angle.

[Kevin Massey]

Why do people advertise the same things on the likes of the IBR and other sites where they pay and try to sell them on here for nothing?


they can also use www.loot.com (http://www.loot.com)

and pay nothing...the ad will also appear in the printed paper aswell...

what i am saying is...it dont matter what others charge/or dont charge.... what ever is done here will be .

[Hacker]

Sponsors have to pay to be a sponsor, hence pay for their advertising.
Do you really think we are just called sponsors for the hell of it?
Sponsor is another word for site advertiser.
This means that to advertise our goods we have paid to advertise.
Quite simple really.
Now who does not pay to advertise? i will leave that up to you to answer?
this is now starting to get into the realms of unbelievable naivety.

[Kevin Massey]

ok just out of interest....point to one of these said issues/ad's

so i can see where you are coming from

[Hacker]

Ummm! classifieds, now let me see, i am sure people sell things there or maybe i am just stupid, and just have a scour across the threads m8.
I think i will just give up, after all i do not have any gripe of paying to advertise something.
I suppose being in business i realise that to survive the business needs a revenue.
Now it is nice to come home and log on to a friendly forum for a chat about our favourite subjects.
Of course this is free, provided by a muppet that has nothing better to do with his money and time.
WRONG, it is provided by someone that also has to make a living and pay all the overheads and outgoings that such an enterprise entails.
Now you tell me, if people do not wish to sell in a classifieds section how you expect traders to pay for the same priveledge and also how the site will raise any revenue?

[Kevin Massey]

hacker...i personaly removed a post that was not in the interest of a site sponsor...

[MickeyDredd]

dont see why joe public should be charged,all the other hunting sites are free as long as you're a good contributer to the site and not just on line to make money,then it should be free.

Gary

I believe the forum has changed from being an open forum where falconers can meet other falconers, make contacts for the purpose of sourcing birds etc and exchange ideas to one that is now a commercial forum, due to its success (in terms of member and hit numbers).

it cant therefore be compared to other "free" sites.

Rgds
MD

[Hacker]

Just bill them for it, any one can produce cheap if you do not have any overheads.
Personally i will probably just use my advertising budget in a more controlled enviroment and just stay on as a private member.

[Kevin Massey]

what about something like this?

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=291043#post291043

[BrianM]

cant we go down the ebay route and charge a percentage of the sale .. to go towards the upkeep of the site

[MickeyDredd]

cant we go down the ebay route and charge a percentage of the sale .. to go towards the upkeep of the site

The simplest way is to charge a set fee to be honest, if you go down the scale charges route it will be an administrative nightmare - and you will need many more mods!! :lol:

[Kevin Massey]

The simplest way is to charge a set fee to be honest, if you go down the scale charges route it will be an administrative nightmare -

i agree....

[BrianM]

other sites charge £10 for a months advertisement,, why not here

[MickeyDredd]

What about this one - he's only asking a tenner?!!

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12972

[Kevin Massey]

maybe the route as far as clasified ad's should go down the path of... &#163;5.00 per single advert...containing no more than 500 words..for 1 month run...this advert would be locked off .. after one month woule expire and removed...

f-a-o
brian

[Kevin Massey]

maybe also any goods under say £25 would come under "free ad's".... other than the fee.... same rule applies with selling only item per ad...500 words...and only run for 1 week say

f-a-o

mr dredd:lol:

[BrianM]

sorry kev ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,smart arse. lol

[MickeyDredd]

f-a-o

mr dredd:lol:

Same response as Brian!! :lol: :lol:

[Kevin Massey]

:butthead: X2 :lol:

[Hacker]

what about something like this?

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=291043#post291043
what are you trying to say?

[Kevin Massey]

what are you trying to say?

would this thread...be against terrys interests? plus both ray turner and natch could be selling? (nothing intended guys)

[Renton]

The simplest way is to charge a set fee to be honest, if you go down the scale charges route it will be an administrative nightmare - and you will need many more mods!! :lol:

More mods? Heavens forbid! :rolleyes: Just stick with a set fee for any non-commercial ad on this site and make the traders identify themselves as such and pay whatever is due to advertise their enterprises on this forum. Some people are prepared to be upfront, i.e. Hacker. A little coercion might help some of the others.

[Hawkmaster]

OK guys before this gets out of hand we will make the best decision for the site and as everyone can see there are many views and opinions to satisfy, so watch this space . . . :lol:

[Hacker]

I am withdrawing from this thread as i feel i have exhausted my opinion.

[Barbary Boy]

just made a donation to the site! but gutted to see someone has given more? wait till the end of the season! come on you guys pay up! its worth a tenner each, surely?

[Renton]

just made a donation to the site! but gutted to see someone has given more? wait till the end of the season! come on you guys pay up! its worth a tenner each, surely?

Indeed it is Keith. A lot more donations, I'm sure, would make a big difference in helping to keep this site going.

[MickeyDredd]

come on you guys pay up! its worth a tenner each, surely?

No!! :lol: :lol:

[Renton]

All we ask is that if you spot an unauthorized commercial post that hasnt been moderated, please help the team by reporting it, for the good of everyone. We do not have a huge team of moderators, so we can't guarantee that every posts will be read by us, but we CAN guarantee that reported posts are treated seriously and will be dealt with.

Very glad to hear it.

[Kentish Falconry]

would this thread...be against terrys interests? plus both ray turner and natch could be selling? (nothing intended guys)

Kev, why would this thread be against my interests? I have paid my Sponsorship money so I can advertise as I have paid up front the same as Richard (Hacker).
If others want to advertise on the Forum then they should pay, if it is a bigger commercial company then they should pay an annual fee to cover continued advertising, if it is for just one advert then just pay for that advert.
I have nothing against Members selling the odd item of equipment or a no longer required bird etc etc but if you are selling for commercial gain then you should pay.
Terry

[Kevin Massey]

terry i think you have missed the point