fret marks

[BrianM]

ive had the luck recently of observing wild raptors relatively up close,, ( bored with the moult so , donning the realtree cammo and setting up a hide watching the local bird population i just cant stay away from the countryside), watching buzzards spars etc ive noticed that these birds are always totaly imaculate when it comes to their plumage,,, these birds cannot be anywhere near fat weight so why dont the have ant fret marks ,, or is it more of a stress issue

your thoughts please

murf

[DeathFromAbove]

fret marks/hunger traces, whichever you preffer, to do tend to only be seen in captive birds IMO from what i've seen (any other opinions, sightings otherwise welcome), although as summer comes there's plenty of baby quarry and easy targets around to fatten up the wild populus so i can imagine them getting quite fat.

[DeathFromAbove]

fat enough obviously without the stress thet captivity sometimes provides.

[BrianM]

has anybody noticed fret marks on any wild raptors??

[Joey]

we found a dead spar by the side of the road and there was not one on it. and a wild kessy that some ***** had shot had not fret marks on them they were both in super condition


joey

[Yarak1]

ive had the luck recently of observing wild raptors relatively up close,, ( bored with the moult so , donning the realtree cammo and setting up a hide watching the local bird population i just cant stay away from the countryside), watching buzzards spars etc ive noticed that these birds are always totaly imaculate when it comes to their plumage,,, these birds cannot be anywhere near fat weight so why dont the have ant fret marks ,, or is it more of a stress issue

your thoughts please

murf

Hi Brian, i fly all my birds through the moult and never have any fret marks............ stress is definetly a factor for fret marks..........But it can be in my opinion the stress caused by suddenly stopping the flying of the bird and for most birds being moulted in seclusion.............Stress can come from the boredom of not flying as much as anything else...................Imagine yourself being free to come and go for months and then suddenly being locked away for months on end doing nothing.................Just a thought.......

[BrianM]

my thoughts on this post are changing ,,,, if fret maks are caused by stress/ trauma?? then it could be argued that if you bird has them , you havent been treating your bird well ???? ,,, i wonder how long it will take the RSPCA to used that in court ??

[Bones]

Imagine yourself being free to come and go for months and then suddenly being locked away for months on end doing nothing.................Just a thought.......
Been there and got the Tshirt from the HMP in my younger days and grey fret hairs to go with it now
PMSL
PAUL

[Berkut]

my thoughts on this post are changing ,,,, if fret maks are caused by stress/ trauma?? then it could be argued that if you bird has them , you havent been treating your bird well ???? ,,, i wonder how long it will take the RSPCA to used that in court ??
Brian,
That,s probably taking it to extremes.I don,t think they would know the difference between a fret mark and a skid mark.!!

[BrianM]

just a thought berkut ,, (bored oot ma skull LOL) , didnt the rspca take someone with a plucked parrot to court ??????

[Berkut]

just a thought berkut ,, (bored oot ma skull LOL) , didnt the rspca take someone with a plucked parrot to court ??????
Wasn,t slagging off or anything but I have a lot of experience with the organisation and what they know about raptors you could write on the back of a stamp.

[EddieT]

,, these birds cannot be anywhere near fat weight so why dont the have ant fret marks
My thoughts on this are:

Q. Why do wild raptors moult in the spring?
A. Because there is an abundance of easy to catch young prey around = fat raptor.

Any BoP that has shown its mettle by surviving the harsh days of winter will get fat on the easy feeding in spring? So yes, they probably are fat?

Also, a wild bird doesn't have to put up with anything stressful as it just flies away.

I assume that those who fly birds through the moult are flying birds that are very well manned and calm (easy enough with a HH?) and as a consequence of this they are not only relatively unstressed, they are also therefore able to be flown at a relatively high weight?

[As The Falcon Her Bells]

I have come across 2 wild birds with very heavy fret (spelling?) marks on their tail, one was a female kestrel (alive) and one was a female spar (dead) both in immature plumage.

[GosFlyer]

many moons ago i used to do a fair bit of taxidermy, and did quiet a few BOP mainly spars, if killed by flying into patio windows or greenhouses, as a lot are they are far from thin, although not exactly fat the ones i have handled have been very muscled up far more than even the imprints we fly. i remember one in particular in very fit condition, a chest like a christmas turkey and it had the biggest crop of red meat and black feathers, i tried to identify it and was sure it was blackbird but there was too much meat in the crop for it to be one blackie. it could have killed two but even then it met its end going up a lane very low in hunting fashion, and into the front of a friends land rover.:rolleyes:

[Yarak1]

Been there and got the Tshirt from the HMP in my younger days and grey fret hairs to go with it now
PMSL
PAUL

there you go bones..........:wink:

[Yarak1]

Wasn,t slagging off or anything but I have a lot of experience with the organisation and what they know about raptors you could write on the back of a stamp.

I think that would be half a stamp to be fair Neil.....:-P

[Pogger]

I've seen fret marks on wild common buzzards before.

[Berkut]

I think that would be half a stamp to be fair Neil.....:-P
Probably nearer the mark John.

[Tasha55403]

When I trapped Reppa (Passage Male Redtail) he had fretmarks across most of his feathers, not just his flight feathers, either. Here's a few pics-they're not the greatest, but you can sort of see the fretmarks. He had a lovely orange tail as an immy. Some folks thought that meant he was an adult, so I took these pics during the molt last year to prove that he was an immy.

[Ben C]

my thoughts on this post are changing ,,,, if fret maks are caused by stress/ trauma?? then it could be argued that if you bird has them , you havent been treating your bird well ???? ,,, i wonder how long it will take the RSPCA to used that in court ??

I was thinking about this overnight Brian........a comparable case would have to be made between what we do and other 'domesticated' animals..Many dogs, cats, fish, monkey's cows, sheep (sheep definately, born to die those ******s) show signs of stress, disease and other ailments not found in the wild. Why? well the wild ones die off and so we never see them I suppose.

But the RSPCA or whoever would be hard pushed to prosecute I think, particularly as they would have to prove that the marks were stress and not........damage by the raptor itself.

[Merger]

I think you may find fret, and hunger traces in feathering are very different, susspect what we see in wild birds is more like hunger streaks, to to waiting in anticipation of next meal, wether this turns into, adrenalin increase, as worrie sets in I dont know , all I have noticed over the years is that it is if at all at the tips wich was when the feather was bieng formed at the start.

[Hacker]

My thoughts on this are:

Q. Why do wild raptors moult in the spring?
A. Because there is an abundance of easy to catch young prey around = fat raptor.

Any BoP that has shown its mettle by surviving the harsh days of winter will get fat on the easy feeding in spring? So yes, they probably are fat?

Also, a wild bird doesn't have to put up with anything stressful as it just flies away.

I assume that those who fly birds through the moult are flying birds that are very well manned and calm (easy enough with a HH?) and as a consequence of this they are not only relatively unstressed, they are also therefore able to be flown at a relatively high weight?
Wild raptors moult in spring early summer because of the amount of young immature prey species available.
This is because they are flying below max performance due to moulting and need easier prey to catch in order to survive and rear young, so not necesseraly fat as they are also feeding the brood.