Golden Eagle - Imprint or Not

[Berkut]

As you will be aware I fly Golden Eagles.To date I have flown 4 and all have been parent-reared and with the results I have had, and the behaviour of these birds I don,t see any real advantages to imprinting one.
However,I have imprinted Goshawks and Falcons in the past and I have to say I love this process and the endearing characters of these birds, particularly as they develope from balls of fluff to hard penning.
The goshawks I have imprinted ,I have done to McDermotts recipe ( within the confines of the law in the UK ) and find it works very well. I know there will be some food association ,but I never allow hand / food association and have never had any aggression from these birds on kills or around food.
My brother recently took possession of an imprinted male goldie which at fat weight is dog tame and non-aggressive, but at a flying weight is dangerous to alarming degrees.Suffice to say it won,t be flown,however it has shown signs of wanting to donate semen so all is not lost.
I would love to imprint a Golden Eagle ( or any other true eagle ) for the experience and enjoyment of doing it and I am looking for opinions from anyone,but particularly those who have imprinted Goshawks and Eagles on whether or not, if done to the recipe it would be likely to have a non - aggressive killing machine at the end of the process.
If it goes wrong when imprinting a gos then that would be bad enough,but the consequences if it were an eagle could be a lot worse and the money they cost , experimenting is not really something I could justify.

[Tim Laycock]

I think recipies work so well with accipiters because the mature naturaly so quickly.
The recipie rearing process retards this independence/maturity to a degree but with these birds the difference is little.
When a recipie of sorts is applied to the HH, a species with a long dependancy/immature period the result is a face grabber!

Im not saying this will be tha case with an eagle but it is food for thought.

That should get the ball rolling :yawinkle:

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

One thing having had many conversations with your good self that i noticed, and having had the tip off that you were going to be posting this thread. Is that you mentioned that as Bentley has matured and become more confident in his abilities. He has become a little more wayward in his approach and not the 100% reliable sort that Taggart is. I would theorise that an imprint would be less likely to take on this trait and begin killing further away and down wind. Due mainly to the bond that an imprint has to handler. As both yourself and I are aware large eagles bond very effectively to their handlers anyway. Though I would be interested to see if this theory pand out in reality.
The normal flying weight conciderations would have also to be taken into account. In that imprints are known to fly in much higher condition than their P/R counter parts. This may in my opinion also prove to be a significant factor in the way you fly. Imprint falcons are known to be more suited to waiting on flights than pursuit as the reduction of condition is less imperative to acheive these flights. This learning from other more understood species could lend itself well in this situation. As anti aggresion conditioning may despite what the old horror stories say be needed less with an imprint Golden flown from waiting on than a P/R wait reduced and then entered. My mind would lend itself to the theory that as an imprint done correctly you could bypass any food related agression on a large kill. Via steady introduction during the imprinting process. Fitness work could also begin at a much earlier stage in the eyas's life as you wouldnt need to leave the youngster to hard pen or mature with its parents. I'll leave it there for now and see what the more experienced have to offer on this subject.

[Tim Laycock]

I honestly dont think aggression on kills can be totaly avoided and I do think that a few good hidings for the imprinter will be inescapable!

At some point it is going to have to be bloody hungry but not on weight and at that point it isnt going to be keen on having its dinner taken away :yawinkle:

Tell me if Im wrong chaps, Im only summising :rolleyes:

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

I think recipies work so well with accipiters because the mature naturaly so quickly.
The recipie rearing process retards this independence/maturity to a degree but with these birds the difference is little.
When a recipie of sorts is applied to the HH, a species with a long dependancy/immature period the result is a face grabber!

Im not saying this will be tha case with an eagle but it is food for thought.

That should get the ball rolling :yawinkle:
When I was flying a social imprint Harris I didnt find this to be the case BB. The situation was very different than the average austringers set up though as the bird was in constant view of the general public. With twice daily flying. The point being is it time spent?

[Ben C]

Would it not therefore be more feasable to create a social imprint or even a creche reared goldie. That is to all intents and purpose a half way medium between a PR and a full imprint.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

A social imprint to my understanding is a full imprint.

[Ben C]

Ok....would it not be feasable to create a partial imprint then??? Something that has the benefits of the imprinting process but without the danger of full imprinting.

[Berkut]

Would it not therefore be more feasable to create a social imprint or even a creche reared goldie. That is to all intents and purpose a half way medium between a PR and a full imprint.
Ben,
Worth thinking about,but I really think it better to go "the whole hog ".
In between may lead to problems.
A valid point to consider is that eagles bond much more closely to their handler,to the point that from an AI point of view,you do not need to imprint an eagle for it to stand for insemination or donate semen.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Many of the people who are producing Goldens on the continent are doing so from A.I. methods. The birds that are used to produce offspring are however reared themselves in open fronted pens with human interaction with their parent birds. These are then flown and can either be used for A.I. or naturally paired as wished. Thus producing a dual imprint, imprinted on both their own parents and humans. This though takes a great deal of time and understanding of the species.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Ben,
Worth thinking about,but I really think it better to go "the whole hog ".
In between may lead to problems.
A valid point to consider is that eagles bond much more closely to their handler,to the point that from an AI point of view,you do not need to imprint an eagle for it to stand for insemination or donate semen.
Sorry I was still typing! LOL.

[Ben C]

Many of the people who are producing Goldens on the continent are doing so from A.I. methods. The birds that are used to produce offspring are however reared themselves in open fronted pens with human interaction with their parent birds. These are then flown and can either be used for A.I. or naturally paired as wished. Thus producing a dual imprint, imprinted on both their own parents and humans. This though takes a great deal of time and understanding of the species.


Thats the sort of thing I was thinking about!!! This is a very interesting thread for me........I'll step back and see what you fellas come up with.

But I have to ask do you two know anyone who has done it??? If so what were the results??

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Hollinshead indicated that they carried out intentional social imprinting on the continent whilst he was working there. Though these birds were given time with other young Goldens whilst suppervised. Also they carried this out in a very busy centre enviroment.

[Ben C]

Yep read that, but i wish he could have done a whole book on the process/results :supz: :supz: :supz:

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Yep read that, but i wish he could have done a whole book on the process/results :supz: :supz: :supz:
Amen. Maybe Berkut would concider cataloguing his experiences if he carries this through. I for one am going to do this as and when production and time allows. THink of the size of the imprint tank for a start!!!!

[Berkut]

Amen. Maybe Berkut would concider cataloguing his experiences if he carries this through. I for one am going to do this as and when production and time allows. THink of the size of the imprint tank for a start!!!!
The whole concept of rearing one from 10 days or so really appeals to me.
It is a great way of filling time outwith the hunting season.
A good diary and a daily photographs would be essential.

[Ben C]

Berkut...I have an old fencing mask for you........just in case!

[SSL]

Hollinshead indicated that they carried out intentional social imprinting on the continent whilst he was working there. Though these birds were given time with other young Goldens whilst suppervised. Also they carried this out in a very busy centre enviroment.

Martin did a talk at the YFC, sometime ago, being interested in imprints I kept pestering him about aggression with the imprint Eagles, from what he said, they were aggressive as youngsters but they would tire the Eagles out when luring, dragging large carcasses with horses/4x4s/whatever. The large carcass (I can imagine going in to take it off a dummy bunny <g>) plus tiring it with a long flight and fight, took away it wanting to rip your face off. My synopsis of it anyway.

Steve.