Most intelligent eagle

[Wingless]

In my opinion it's the Golden Eagle, i've flown various fish eagles, odd jobs like bateleurs and others but still nothing seems to beat the brains of a mature, experienced Goldy. What are others opinions? I see a few people on here are flying hawk eagles either in the uk or abroad, do they rate in the brains dept? What about crowned eagles or harpys? Interested to hear your opinions...

Robbie

[HawkEagle]

I doubt hawk eagles are as clever as goldy.

[Berkut]

I am limited to Goldies but can comment on their amazing intelligence compared to other raptors.

[Wingless]

I suppose it's not really a good question as many "eagles" are as different from each other as say a peregrine is from a harris. The Aquilas do seem to have that "i know what you're upto" thing about them, goldies being at the top... probably why they are one of/or THE worlds most successful and wide spread eagle!

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Wedgies are the same.

[Wingless]

You mentioned in another thread about wedge tails K - did you hunt one? I think probably verreaux's and maybe imperials (although havent seen an imperial flown) might be similar as well?

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

A friend who is sadly no longer with us used to send his up to me. Only had her for approximately two months and that was very broken up. But yes she was normally in hunting condition and being flown when she was with me. I'd have liked more time with her and her not to be ancient at the time but there you go. Impirials arent as suited to falconry as they have much smaller feet in comparison to Golden, Wedge, or Black eagles. Dosent mean I wouldnt like to give one a try though. LOL.

[Merger]

Over the years Ive come to the assumption, that intellegence is just enough forward thinking ability, to survive in the enviroment you are in, amongst the realitive competition, therefore, the conclusion for me is the more bleak and hostile the enviroment, the more forward thinking the predator,, harris, gyr etc !! that would make our, birds less inteligent, perhaps, wich would mean their more instinctive, perhaps, in laymens terms just chase it !! if you miss so what! there will be somthing else in twenty mins, wether this eqates to Eagles, I dont know, as I dont know enough about them, as for goldens there found all over the world, in various enviroments, so I would of said they have a good ability to absorb surplus Knowledge dependant on their own individaul surroundings,, hope this lot makes some sense, now Ive written it !!

[Pitbull]

the most intellagent eagle i think are the ones that are no good for falconry thus they dont have us dragging them down and are able to stay a wild species....:lol: :lol:

[Wingless]

Pitbull - Are you saying that eagles shouldnt be used for falconry? im confused.

[Wingless]

[QUOTE=Merger]therefore, the conclusion for me is the more bleak and hostile the enviroment, the more forward thinking the predator,, harris, gyr etc !! QUOTE]

absolutely - striated caracara for instance! then you get something so widespread and abundant as the barn owl and it makes you wonder !

[Miguel]

A friend who is sadly no longer with us used to send his up to me. Only had her for approximately two months and that was very broken up. But yes she was normally in hunting condition and being flown when she was with me. I'd have liked more time with her and her not to be ancient at the time but there you go. Impirials arent as suited to falconry as they have much smaller feet in comparison to Golden, Wedge, or Black eagles. Dosent mean I wouldnt like to give one a try though. LOL.

K, what's your opinion on wedge tails? Do you think they would make good hunters? I know back in Australia they can even catch kangaroo's but they're also scavenger birds... What do you think? Would they be good falconry birds?

As for verreaux's, they must be great, as they're only an "evolution" of the golden eagle. I've seen them hunting in pairs on a dvd and they were awsome! :supz:

[SycoPaff]

In my opinion it's the Golden Eagle, i've flown various fish eagles, odd jobs like bateleurs and others but still nothing seems to beat the brains of a mature, experienced Goldy. What are others opinions? I see a few people on here are flying hawk eagles either in the uk or abroad, do they rate in the brains dept? What about crowned eagles or harpys? Interested to hear your opinions...

Robbie

People probably wont agree with this, but i'm starting to believe that there is hardly any, if any atall, difference between the intellegence of most bop! excluding owls!

i find that the learning ability of a bird is dictated by its wild behavour, its own character, and its intrest in being trained!

eg. some people will say that a buzzard is less intellegent that a harris when a buzzards state of mind is very different to a harris! its wanting to learn and its willingness to learn are quite different!

does anyone see where i'm coming from? i might just drop the whole idea!lol

[Miguel]

I see your opinion, but I also think they're only as smart as they need to be... If a bird more like a scavanger then a hunter, he'll need to have different skills and therefore different learning and adaptation abilities to catch their prey. Maybe a goldie needs to figure out how to get a fox without getting hurt and in order to be sucessfull, and a kite only needs to learn how to look for garbage, carrion or small preys...

Maybe my opinion is wrong, and there's someone out there that did any research on this or has a bit more info on this issue!

Anyway, they're great bird!! :supz:

[Jester]

I see your opinion, but I also think they're only as smart as they need to be... If a bird more like a scavanger then a hunter, he'll need to have different skills and therefore different learning and adaptation abilities to catch their prey. Maybe a goldie needs to figure out how to get a fox without getting hurt and in order to be sucessfull, and a kite only needs to learn how to look for garbage, carrion or small preys...

Maybe my opinion is wrong, and there's someone out there that did any research on this or has a bit more info on this issue!

Anyway, they're great bird!! :supz:

makes a lot of sense to me :supz:


i mean how much intelligence does an owl need to swoop down silently on prey at night compared to an eagle catching a fox

[Berkut]

I see your opinion, but I also think they're only as smart as they need to be... If a bird more like a scavanger then a hunter, he'll need to have different skills and therefore different learning and adaptation abilities to catch their prey. Maybe a goldie needs to figure out how to get a fox without getting hurt and in order to be sucessfull, and a kite only needs to learn how to look for garbage, carrion or small preys...

Maybe my opinion is wrong, and there's someone out there that did any research on this or has a bit more info on this issue!

Anyway, they're great bird!! :supz:
Sounds good to me also Atomik.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

K, what's your opinion on wedge tails? Do you think they would make good hunters? I know back in Australia they can even catch kangaroo's but they're also scavenger birds... What do you think? Would they be good falconry birds?

As for verreaux's, they must be great, as they're only an "evolution" of the golden eagle. I've seen them hunting in pairs on a dvd and they were awsome! :supz:
The main difference to a Golden is the lack of being thrown off buy last ditch attempt jinks when closing on agile prey. They steer better.

[Miguel]

makes a lot of sense to me :supz:
i mean how much intelligence does an owl need to swoop down silently on prey at night compared to an eagle catching a fox

Like I said they're inteligent as they need to be... They have such good adaptations: silent flight, excelent nightvision and the best hearing of all creatures. They whole body is designed for a purpose. Also with such good adaptation they "had to give up something" and that was they're brain... Owl's eyes are so big, they take most of the skull's space so there's not much room for a brain.
It's a matter of having the best tools for the job!!

[Parahawker]

K, what's your opinion on wedge tails? Do you think they would make good hunters? I know back in Australia they can even catch kangaroo's but they're also scavenger birds... What do you think? Would they be good falconry birds?

As for verreaux's, they must be great, as they're only an "evolution" of the golden eagle. I've seen them hunting in pairs on a dvd and they were awsome! :supz:

They make great hunters
Here in Australia we dont have any Vultures, so the wedgetail takes that role
But with the absense of dead food, live food is a viable option
Seeing them take wallaby is quite something

[Parahawker]

Like I said they're inteligent as they need to be... They have such good adaptations: silent flight, excelent nightvision and the best hearing of all creatures. They whole body is designed for a purpose. Also with such good adaptation they "had to give up something" and that was they're brain... Owl's eyes are so big, they take most of the skull's space so there's not much room for a brain.
It's a matter of having the best tools for the job!!


An Owl, with stealth, night vision, and radar..
Give that brains & your asking for trouble lol

[Miguel]

They make great hunters
Here in Australia we dont have any Vultures, so the wedgetail takes that role
But with the absense of dead food, live food is a viable option
Seeing them take wallaby is quite something

Yeah, that's why I was wondering if they would make good hunters, since they have that scavaging side... Anyway if they have a go on kangaroos they must be something! Marcus you're lucky to be able to see them! Hope I'll visit Australia in the future!!

[Parahawker]

Yeah, that's why I was wondering if they would make good hunters, since they have that scavaging side... Anyway if they have a go on kangaroos they must be something! Marcus you're lucky to be able to see them! Hope I'll visit Australia in the future!!


See them..!
there like chooks everywhere
You see mum, Dad & baby just cruising about most the day either soaring of sitting down to a bit of tucker on a hill side

There far too cheaky when were flying sometimes
wish they were a little more afraid of humans at times
so they might keep a distance when your flying a bird

not as bad as the peregrines though..
You let your bird go here & its open season as far as there concerned

[Miguel]

There far too cheaky when were flying sometimes
wish they were a little more afraid of humans at times
so they might keep a distance when your flying a bird

not as bad as the peregrines though..
You let your bird go here & its open season as far as there concerned

I remember talking to Antony (Molineaux) about that, I guess he was having some troubles when flying his own wedgetails... Some wild birds were showing up and chased his birds around, maybe thinking that they had food on their talons (jesses hanging...)

Anyway it must be a pretty cool sight!!!

[GDN]

Intelligence is difficult to measure in any type of animal never mind a bird.

The danger is that you mix up what is intelligence and what is instinct.

I suppose 1 way to look at it is how quickly can a species adapt to live along side us.

Goldies while very wide spread around the world seem to keep well away from man. Wedge Tails on the other hand come alot closer because road kill takes on a whole different meaning in Australia. What about Bald Eagles in North America. There are cases of them living in towns and along side people. I believe there is a place in Alaska where they are seen as a problem because there are so many. Somebody put a post on the forum about it a while back.

In this country you could talk about buzzards and road kill, kestrels and motor way verges, sparrow hawks and bird tables or peregrines and pigeon lofts. Are these signs of intelligence or instinct - to go where the food is.

I have heard stories of people working with eagles and the eagle has seen away to get leverage on the falconer because they have watched what the falconer is doing but did the eagle work it out and or did it just learn the routine and anticipate what was goingt to happen next.

Do we teach the birds new things when we train or are we just working with hundreds of thousands of years worth of instinct. I suspect a little bit of both.

[Parahawker]

I remember talking to Antony (Molineaux) about that, I guess he was having some troubles when flying his own wedgetails... Some wild birds were showing up and chased his birds around, maybe thinking that they had food on their talons (jesses hanging...)

Anyway it must be a pretty cool sight!!!


Yeah up at Alice his birds get some serious hassle
He's got a few wild birds that are almost part of the show

[Sandalar]

Intelligence is difficult to measure in any type of animal never mind a bird.

The danger is that you mix up what is intelligence and what is instinct.

I suppose 1 way to look at it is how quickly can a species adapt to live along side us.

In this country you could talk about buzzards and road kill, kestrels and motor way verges, sparrow hawks and bird tables or peregrines and pigeon lofts. Are these signs of intelligence or instinct - to go where the food is.

Do we teach the birds new things when we train or are we just working with hundreds of thousands of years worth of instinct. I suspect a little bit of both.

I too think both come into it after all instinct had to come from somewhere
Personally I think too many people just consider animals and birds to be stupid and solely reliant on instinct.
even the humble Blue tit is quite smart when it comes to finding food.

I think one of the best ways to measure iintelligence is to give the bird, animal, human a totally alien thing to deal with and see what happens.
If birds weren't intelligent they wouldn't get bored when they are too long without flying equally they wouldn't get twitchy and excited at the start of a hunting trip.
As for who is the most intelligent it takes what 3 weeks to train a Harris and upto 4 years to train a Golden Eagle.
I think that says it all really so which eagle takes the longest to train......
Sandalar

[Wingless]

Harris isn't an eagle wouldnt compare them, as i already said its even difficult to compare the different genus of eagle anyway. AND a golden eagle does not take four years to train (if done properly!), a fully parent reared bird should be flying loose in 8 weeks (ill go max 16 weeks if you use a slower approach), maybe longer for a really fat bird in warm weather and after it's first season it should be comfortable with just about any environment. These days alot of people fly imprint goldies anyway. After 4 years of flying, a goldy should be really switched on and quite experienced. Look at it this way, a human isn't really independant until about 16 years of age (or at least that's in british society) if we still lived in a cave somewhere you'd be off on your own at around 14 years old. So it takes us 14 years to develop, you could say that the more intelligent animal takes LONGER to develop and anyway a goldy could live 50 years in captivity, a harris 25-30 at most.

And to answer your question which eagle takes the longest to train, in my experience parent-reared white tail sea eagles have it. Ive worked with 4, 2 my brother and myself trained which at 2 years old are still VERY hard work and another 2 that im flying at the moment which a friend has trained, similar age and similar experiences. I would stick white tails in the lower range of eagle intellect or maybe they are just very sensitive.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

I too think both come into it after all instinct had to come from somewhere
Personally I think too many people just consider animals and birds to be stupid and solely reliant on instinct.
even the humble Blue tit is quite smart when it comes to finding food.

I think one of the best ways to measure iintelligence is to give the bird, animal, human a totally alien thing to deal with and see what happens.
If birds weren't intelligent they wouldn't get bored when they are too long without flying equally they wouldn't get twitchy and excited at the start of a hunting trip.
As for who is the most intelligent it takes what 3 weeks to train a Harris and upto 4 years to train a Golden Eagle.
I think that says it all really so which eagle takes the longest to train......
Sandalar
Speaking as someone who flys a Golden eagle, four years is no where near accurate. If someone hasnt got it going and flying in the first season there playing at it.

[Berkut]

Speaking as someone who flys a Golden eagle, four years is no where near accurate. If someone hasnt got it going and flying in the first season there playing at it.
K,
I agree. I picked up my young eagle at 19 weeks old last season.It was entered 6 weeks later and went on to take 30 hares and was unlucky not to bag a fox.It remained silent and its manners were impeccable.
That eagle still has a lot to learn ,but nevertheless,it was "trained" by the time it was 25 weeks old and should improve as time goes on.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Sadly Berkut there are too many messers out there. It used to be the case that a few falconers had Eagles in there mews and they were expensive garden ornaments back in the 60's, 70's, and early 80's. During the ninetys things seamed to get better. Then production whent up and the collectors seam to have them again. It aint falconry, it aint big, an it aint clever.

[Merger]

I too think both come into it after all instinct had to come from somewhere
Personally I think too many people just consider animals and birds to be stupid and solely reliant on instinct.
even the humble Blue tit is quite smart when it comes to finding food.

I think one of the best ways to measure iintelligence is to give the bird, animal, human a totally alien thing to deal with and see what happens.
If birds weren't intelligent they wouldn't get bored when they are too long without flying equally they wouldn't get twitchy and excited at the start of a hunting trip.
As for who is the most intelligent it takes what 3 weeks to train a Harris and upto 4 years to train a Golden Eagle.
I think that says it all really so which eagle takes the longest to train......
SandalarInteresting,,I think, its instinctive behaviour ,verses memory, intelligence has to revolve around memory, and the capacity to use it, instinct you have no say in the matter, you need what you need to get buy, what you dont need you have no use for,, when a bird bates he instinctively trys to fly off!! the fact hes teatherd, why do it,,perhaos his memory of failed flight, is not enough to overide his instinctive behaviour, to fly off! at that particular second,, training is that not teaching somthing to behave how we want it to, or thro positive reinforcement, do we enhance whats already there,, the harris and the eagle both have the ability to absorb a certain ammount of surplus knowledge, addapting to there unatural surroundings, they will both store a routine that revolves around there survival,, as for boredom,I believe you need a mammoth brain capacity to even contemplate it.

[Berkut]

Sadly Berkut there are too many messers out there. It used to be the case that a few falconers had Eagles in there mews and they were expensive garden ornaments back in the 60's, 70's, and early 80's. During the ninetys things seamed to get better. Then production whent up and the collectors seam to have them again. It aint falconry, it aint big, an it aint clever.
K,
This is true.I wonder how many there are in the UK that have never seen a hare never mind caught one.
Another thing I have discovered is that a number of people have bought golden eagles without really knowing exactly what is required and never fly the bird to anywhere near its true potential.
Because of the cost involved I know of one or two who are too scared to fly them loose.

[Merger]

K,
This is true.I wonder how many there are in the UK that have never seen a hare never mind caught one.
Another thing I have discovered is that a number of people have bought golden eagles without really knowing exactly what is required and never fly the bird to anywhere near its true potential.
Because of the cost involved I know of one or two who are too scared to fly them loose.You are very correct berkut, but it was not that long ago they were several thousand pounds!! not three, Im afraid things are only going to get worse, as prices decrease,, very sad...

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Yeah met the same types myself. For any reading this, please for the birds well being get rid to someone who will fly it.