Tame hacking

[ColdZero]

How common is it to tame hack birds? How many of you on here have tried it and do you think the results were worth the risk and effort? Its definitely something i want to try oneday if i live in a suitable area. But that also makes me wonder why i shouldn't be able to tame hack a kes in my village, as i doubt it would stray too far out of the surrounding gardens for quite some time. But anyway if you have tried it what considerations should you make before attempting it, ie any problems encountered you can avoid next time.

[Berkut]

I tame hacked a male and female peregrine 11 years ago.It was great to watch the birds out there, but at the time they were much more expensive and I was in bits.I lost my bottle after 5 or 6 days and caught them up.

[SnakeHuts]

Considering imprinting and tame hacking two peregrine chicks this season purchased from different breeders.

If chicks raised together and dual imprinted with a view to flying/hunting first two seasons then breeding later, will they be confused and be neither good for AI or natural breeding.

Any comments of experience of this.

[MitchellBrad]

I tame hacked a male and female peregrine 11 years ago.It was great to watch the birds out there, but at the time they were much more expensive and I was in bits.I lost my bottle after 5 or 6 days and caught them up.

I've tame hacked a bunch of hybrids and one very dark gyr. It was a lot of fun since the birds were hacked off the house. My son taught the gyr to fly, honest. He was standing next to her and said, " You run, flap your wings and pretty soon you'll be flying" Both ran down the yard flapping their wings when Livvy suddenly lifted up and made a complete lap around the property landing on the house. Would I ever do it again. NOpe, birds get too many bad habits I'd rather not have to cure. It was fun though. I once had a hybrid tiercel I'd turn loose around the house to condition him. By the time he was catching the pigeons it was time to go hawking. Nice bird with a lot of bad habits<G>

[Sprout]

I tame hacked a pere-prairie a few years ago as it started screaming and mantling. The tame hacking nipped that in the bud but did teach him how to pitch in trees which took some ironing out!! Didn't really do anything for fitness either as he spent most of his time on the window ledge or in trees.

[Hawkmaster]

I have done it with a Spar, Saker, Gos and Gyr/Saker.
Almost lost the Spar. Saker benefited in a huge way and became a better bird as it was a lawn mowing sitter. The Gos never learnt to catch crow or gulls, but got some fitness not worth mentioning, but was a real challenge to get back as she would be on the move all the time. Being an imprint I think it may have improved her recall to my voice, but who knows it may only have seemed that way?

The Gyr/Saker got stolen, four times and eventually never to be seen again! But several things became very interesting, her homing ability and improvement in height as well as an awesome recall to the lure from what seemed miles away without even being able to see her.

Would I do it again, yes maybe, why? Who knows the thrill I suppose.

[ColdZero]

what sort of bad habits did you experience MitchellBrad?

Was there any point in tame hacking your spar HM as its something i would like to do. More for the fun of doing it than anything else to be honest.

Also what else should you consider, will the bird come back every time its hungry? Do they learn the feeding scheudle? Also about hacking time, do you catch your bird up as soon as it misses meals and if it always returns do you just continue the hack for X amount of time? I would be really interested to know if there are any books or webistes that go through the process in more detail.

thanks

[Hawkmaster]

Was there any point in tame hacking your spar HM as its something i would like to do. More for the fun of doing it than anything else to be honest.No point and would not do a Spar again. Done mainly because it was an imprint and that was just a natural progression from learning to fly to flying around to flying away and getting a call from the IBR she was found 15 miles away.

The rest is all hit and miss unfortunately, going with my gut instinct.:oops:

[SnakeHuts]

I've tame hacked a bunch of hybrids and one very dark gyr. It was a lot of fun since the birds were hacked off the house. My son taught the gyr to fly, honest. He was standing next to her and said, " You run, flap your wings and pretty soon you'll be flying" Both ran down the yard flapping their wings when Livvy suddenly lifted up and made a complete lap around the property landing on the house. Would I ever do it again. NOpe, birds get too many bad habits I'd rather not have to cure. It was fun though. I once had a hybrid tiercel I'd turn loose around the house to condition him. By the time he was catching the pigeons it was time to go hawking. Nice bird with a lot of bad habits<G>

I do know several falconers who will specifically not buy a "hacked" bird as they feel that its already learned bad habits, ie will put down , say sit on a post, perch etc, and logically this seems true.....................at least when its imprinted then manned and flown it will hopefully learn only good lessons.

Any additions to make to this????

[Talib]

I do know several falconers who will specifically not buy a "hacked" bird as they feel that its already learned bad habits, ie will put down , say sit on a post, perch etc, and logically this seems true.....................at least when its imprinted then manned and flown it will hopefully learn only good lessons.

Any additions to make to this????

The sitting down can be worked out of them. The biggest problem is that they have learned failure by chasing things and not catching them.

Talib

[Sprout]

The sitting down can be worked out of them. The biggest problem is that they have learned failure by chasing things and not catching them.

Talib
Surely that would be good for a gamehawk?? Failure to catch check hopefully prevent them from seeking it out??

[Talib]

Surely that would be good for a gamehawk?? Failure to catch check hopefully prevent them from seeking it out??

Using failure to dissuade the falcon flying check works far better when used after the falcon is killing its intended type of quarry, rather than before.

Talib

[MitchellBrad]

Sitting was the biggest problem I had. I hate a bird that sits!! It can be cured but why spend time curing a problem when you should have been hawking. Plus they were imprinted, not my cup of tea. The female gyr was already pretty fit which worked against me when it came to getting her to wait on. She could catch anything she wanted the first day she wanted to. The gyrkin wasnt' hacked he had some personality issues but would on occasion take very nice pitches. Both caught a lot of game but to be honest if I can't catch game in the manner I like then it isn't all that exciting.

Its' horses for courses. Everyone knows of hacked birds that were exceptional in every way. I've got the time to wait until the unhacked bird catches up.

[SnakeHuts]

At the moment, whilst it seems a fun idea to tame hack, having an imprinted peregrine free flying around and coming in upon demand seems a buzz, I am leaning towards Brads way of thinking and better to teach the falcon positives and get down to hunting rather than having to untrain the habit of sitting from a young bird which as been hacked.

[MitchellBrad]

At the moment, whilst it seems a fun idea to tame hack, having an imprinted peregrine free flying around and coming in upon demand seems a buzz, I am leaning towards Brads way of thinking and better to teach the falcon positives and get down to hunting rather than having to untrain the habit of sitting from a young bird which as been hacked.

I'm certainly no expert at hacking imprints. My own experiences weren't what I would call ideal. Eyeases playing around the house and fields are fun to watch but my hawking with them was borderline disaster. The gyr caught a lot of game but never really took much of a pitch in her first season. She was better the second.

I'm almost sure there have to be those out there who have hacked and are very pleased with the results. I don't happen to be one.

I also rely a lot on my friend's experiences and, to be honest, in my small circle of friends no one seems to think there is an advantage. One guy flys strictly imprinted gyrs. He goes for the kite from day one and goes hawking as soon as he has a pitch he can rely on. He too doesn't think the hack teaches a gyr anything. But he's out hawking from the first day of the season.

I'd like to know if anyone on this list has tame hacked and what their results were. Other than those who have already posted.

Brad

[Merger]

I have tame hacked quite a few falcons over the years, tho these were for my own education, and display birds, not for hunting, I already posted something about tame hacking lanners recently on here on another thread somewere, its a real learning curve for those that have naver tried it. The benifits can somtimes outway the dissadvantages depending on what you are trying to achieve, some when mentioned about a problem of failure while chasing, that should always be the case anyway, if your releasing an imprint for hack the bird will only exert and waste energy, as long as the fuel tank is full, as the birds appetite decreases he will half heartedly pursue avian prey, faling thro two criteria, lack of experience in flying abilty, and lack of aggression thro body weight, thats why after one or two failed attemps my birds would come back to the roofs, screaming for food, at generally quite a high weight in comparison, to there finished flying weight, I cannot give you information concerning channeling effort into hunting because I never hunted a hacked imprint.

[ColdZero]

would you say there is more beneift hacking a hawk than a falcon due to unwanted landing habits learnt?

[Merger]

Personally I would not see much point in hacking a hawk, of true nature , however might well be good for harris, or semi bueteo I assume, if nothing more than two speed up the process of controled flight.

[SakerYZF]

I tame hacked my male saker , worked fine infact it was excelent fun and did him the world of good, as where the other birds at work a Female Peregrine, Male Peales Peregrine And a Female Gyr/saker.
All allowed "play time" around the landfill site , was excelent watching them soar and start chasing things, wouldn't do it any other way.

Nothing like lying on your back in the long grass on a warm summers day watching your "baby" having fun on thermals. :-D

[SeagulBasher]

i've tame hacked imprints on the landfill where i work for the last five years and i've never had a problem with them sitting up once the time comes to getting them hunting, however there is'nt really anywhere for them to sit appart from the roof of the car or the fencing posts, i put them out for a couple of hours every day and they do nothing but fly once they are strong on the wing and i dont start the hunting training until they have killed for themselves, wich normally is around 12 weeks of age, i did a female prairie last year and i fed her on dead gulls from 10 weeks old and she took her first gull from tame hacking 2 weeks later and she weighed 2lb 2oz but her flying weight once i got her going was consistantly was around 1lb 13 1/2oz and she never sat down until she had flown a gull and been out done by it, she was allways instant out of the hood, my best bird is a female peregrine which was done in the same way and doesent take anything appart from gulls and the good thing with tame hacking them on site is that when they go off chasing they are good at finding there way back if they dont kill, i will be hopefully tame hacking two more female peregrines this year, i would recomend it, heres my falcon today with her gull now in her third season and if youre ever down my way come and see her fly
cheers hope this helps
colin

[Mark Collins]

Tame hacking is great, 1st bird i did was a imprinted tiercel prairie, i started off watching him , then nipping off home for an hour then leaving him out for up to 8 hours a day, so tame hack to start , full hack at the end , he had about 3 weeks full hack, sitting up was never a problem he would sky up and stoop anything below him , he was a tad waywood but flushing quarry soon brought him over , he killed about 17 head in 20 days , awsome little predator , he hit a fence full stoop and killed himself in his first year, i cried like a baby , favorite falcon tiercel prairie . I have hacked peregrines and initially they can be a bit unreliable , going off chasing pigeons etc, but flushing game soon brings them round, brad no experience with gyrs, must be a differant ball game, but the peregrines have been a hacked falcon traditionaly since the first british falconry clubs started out ,i personally would rather have a racey falcon thats chasing everthing in sight, than a lazy fat one sat on a fencepost , the former one can be moulded into shape , the latter is by far the one that needs more work,mark.

[Mark Collins]

A few pictures from 06, ,mark.

[Mark Collins]

Some from 07,mark.

[SparkleBee]

Lovely pictures Mark, and stunning falcons!

[ChrisRobbo]

I attempted something similar this year with an imprint female peregrine. The problem i was faced with was that there is a progression in an imprint where it gets to the point it wants to fly. Unfortunately me being me and having fed the bird off the lure since a tot i didnt take enough weight off the bird, this turned out to be a mistake! I was not intending to leave the bird out for a sustained period just give it some freedom in the day and bring her in at night for a week or so. She initially flew and hoped short distances playing then one day she was doing her normal playfull imprint routine and opened the taps! She went up like a bullet on only a modest wind it frightened the **** out of me and i think it did her to she topped out at about 500 feet on her first flight! When i tracked her down she was sat in the top of a tree and called when she saw me. I thought it would be ok but no she was quite happy in the tree and hadn't learnt how to slow down! Although its amusing watching a peregrine fly into a tree and slip down it like in the cartoons it was a real problem.
All day it ****ed it down, but she flew in an area of only a few hundred metres diameter between several very large trees. She attempted to land and take the lure countless times but was totaly bewildered on how to stop and you could see it in her. I tried several methods of getting her out of a tree including a perch put on a 14m high carbon fibre fishing pole while raining and looking ominous like storm clouds (not my brightest idea but i was desperate). She looked at it bewilderingly as it was still about 5m beneath her so i attempted to stand on a step ladder while doing this, she decided it wasn't for her and moved to another tree. She had figured out that if she went vertical before landing she would slow down, so she was always at the top of trees otherwise she was unable to land. She spent one night outside in the rain i was worried sick it really was bad weather. The next day after several attempts and her getting really hungry evident by her calling while she was in the tree for me to come feed her. She ditched it, on soaking wet grass she landed about 20ft before the lure at full speed very undignified and slid on her undercarage to a halt. Then she ran to the lure and absolutely demolished the food. I was soaked and tired as it was summer so i was there at every available hour into dark and pre light in the morning. She was bone dry except for her tail feathers weatherproof or what.

Next time i think i may change tactics :lol:

Here she is anyway tulula the most pleasant imprint you could imagine not once has she drew blood. Not like my goss :rolleyes:

ATB Chris