Beginners questions

[BKnight]

I asked these questions last night, I should know the middle of the night is not the best time to get answeres. Just to say again, I have absolutely no experience.

Firstly, where would be a good place to get on a course in the north beds, sout cambs area and/or where is the closest group or club as was suggested last night.

Secondly, do people agree that a Harris Hawk is the right bird for a complete novice.

I did get one answer to should I buy a trained bird or an untrained bird, my concerns are that as a complete novice I know F. all about what I would be doing and dont want to end up damaging the bird physically or psychologically - just wondered waht other people think.

Finally (for now) - what books are good to read, I've been given an very old, tatty version (pages missing :( ) of one by Philip Glasier - is it any good, had it been updated, what are the most recent books that I should look out for.

[Hells99]

The Raptor Foundation near St Ives in Cambs runs both taster days and 5 day courses.

www.raptorfoundation.org.uk

Helen

[Saker-Clive]

..Hi brian, what do you want to do with the bird, hunt? have you got land to fly on and what type of land is it.....wooded, open fields? what quarry are you looking at hunting, rabbit, pheasant,.......... hare?

All these things need to be weighed up before deciding on a bird but in general a Harris is an excellent choice and they get better as they get older.

[BKnight]

..Hi brian, what do you want to do with the bird, hunt? have you got land to fly on and what type of land is it.....wooded, open fields? what quarry are you looking at hunting, rabbit, pheasant,.......... hare?

All these things need to be weighed up before deciding on a bird but in general a Harris is an excellent choice and they get better as they get older.

Answering a question with a question - so I'll do the same, repeating I know nothing other than its something that has interested me since a child.

I guess by have I got land you dont mean my back yard - how do I go about getting land, what type do I need, what type of quarry should I be looking at if I got a Harris Hawk, what quarry do other birds of prey hunt ?

(I think really what I need is to find a group or club and go along and ask in person)

[BKnight]

The Raptor Foundation near St Ives in Cambs runs both taster days and 5 day courses.

www.raptorfoundation.org.uk

Helen

Thanks Helen, I'll check that site out.

[Sandeep]

Hi BK

As you have no clue about falconry, the ideal thing to do would be to meet up with a fellow falconer located close to you. See if this sport is realy meant for you... or is it too much to handle...

Once you have decided that falconry is meant for you... get an idea of what land you are going to hunt the bird in... Is it wooded or is it open land?? And then it would be easy to decide what bird you will fly... After that get your book and go through the finer details...

Attention to detail...is of utmost importance...

Should you need any further detail... please donot hesitate to ask... No matter how foolish the question seems...

None here in the forum was born a falconer...

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Answering a question with a question - so I'll do the same, repeating I know nothing other than its something that has interested me since a child.

I guess by have I got land you dont mean my back yard - how do I go about getting land, what type do I need, what type of quarry should I be looking at if I got a Harris Hawk, what quarry do other birds of prey hunt ?

(I think really what I need is to find a group or club and go along and ask in person)

Yes - attending a club would be a good start, you can then go out with falconers flying different hawks and falcons over the next season and make a more informed choice for your first hawk next year. You will also learn about field craft and getting permission to fly your hawk. You do not state what your hunting experience is so far (shooting etc) but if you have none, it will also give you good experience in relation to what hunting with a bird of prey entails.

In the meantime there are many, many books that you can read. Glasiers (the complete copy!) is a good start, as is Emma Fords, Falconry Art and Practice. In addition Nick Fox's book, Understanding the Bird of Prey is good, although perhaps a bit above beginners level. Martin Hollinsheads books on harris hawks are also excellent if you are interested in harrises. I am sure that others will also advise on book choices.

FHF

[Saker-Clive]

Ok, we now know that you are a total novice........................by land, I mean somewhere to fly a bird on; farm land, private land.

Firstly, you will need to either write loads of letters and send out to farmers, private land owners near to where you wish to fly. 99% of the answers will be knock backs and/or go in person asking if it is possible to be granted permission to fly on their land.

harris' hawks are very versatile and will fly in various landscapes quite happily, providing that there is quarry for them and their flying time is made enjoyable so as not to get bored. The good thing about a HH is that they are like a dog.....in that, they will happily follow on from tree to tree or post and stay 'close by'.
hope this helps for now but definately find out about a club or if someone on here is local to you see if you can get out with them, and have them show you the way.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Or us of course ( excuse the pun) we also run an apprenticeship scheme and specialize in hunting with BOp especially peregrines. wea re not open to the public so we major on almost 121 training. I personally have been involved with BOP since the mid 60's ( over 40 years) but even now still learn something new almost every day. feel free to call/ look at both sites HTH

[BlackShaheen1]

by your post and questions i can see that you are a long way os getting a bird if you want a bird in my honest oppinion you should study for it like anything els that you might want to learn.as you say as in land you mean your back yard that is not what my learned friend was on about .you will need permision to fly and hunt .firstly go and find this sort after land if you can .secondly find a mentor that will show you the ropes and guide you threw your training and lastly decide which bird is for you and the land wich you have .it is not as easy as just getting a harris hawk as so many have done and made the same mistakes as i think you are heading for if you dont take your time .if you say that you have been in tn birds of pray you must firstly grasp the ideals of how to lookafter one

[BKnight]

Thanks for all that - just to add that all of this is a future plan, although just a few years away, the time when I can afford to retire (well, at least semi-retire) is in sight, so I thought now would be the right time to start the learning process.

[BKnight]

Also to Helen & Julian (or anybody else), do you know the names of any individuals that might be prepared to let me tag along sometime or have a contact number for the nearest group/club in the area.

[GoodFooter]

Yes - attending a club would be a good start, you can then go out with falconers flying different hawks and falcons over the next season and make a more informed choice for your first hawk next year. You will also learn about field craft and getting permission to fly your hawk. You do not state what your hunting experience is so far (shooting etc) but if you have none, it will also give you good experience in relation to what hunting with a bird of prey entails.

In the meantime there are many, many books that you can read. Glasiers (the complete copy!) is a good start, as is Emma Fords, Falconry Art and Practice. In addition Nick Fox's book, Understanding the Bird of Prey is good, although perhaps a bit above beginners level. Martin Hollinsheads books on harris hawks are also excellent if you are interested in harrises. I am sure that others will also advise on book choices.

FHF
Superb choice of books!!!!! when you have finnished them and if you can get it ' A hawk for the bush' not so much a begginers book but an excellent insight into the training/hunting of true hawks and a compulsive read to boot!

[Falconry Equipment International]

Also to Helen & Julian (or anybody else), do you know the names of any individuals that might be prepared to let me tag along sometime or have a contact number for the nearest group/club in the area.
give me a shout closer to the season and Ill see if I can point you in the right direction

[Kennelre]

I've looked at your profile and you clearly have a very demanding profession and so, I would guess that the first thing to realise is how much of your time this will take...it's very much a way of life and the daily input required, in order to do right by your bird just cannot be described until you actually start to do it. If you don't end up in love with the whole thing than it will do your head in and you will end up letting the bird go to someone else. I think that a Harris Hawk is an excellent first bird but I also believe that they have to be hunted..and so you need to ensure that you will have the time to do that and that he/she does not end up having to fit in with weekends only. You also need to ensure that you are able to negotiate ground upon which to hunt appropriate quarry and that you have an effective method of flushing quarry because poking around in ditches with a long stick, and praying for a rabbit, gets tiresome after a bit. Suddenly you will realise that you also need ferrets and you will begin to wonder about a nice dog to complete the outfit. Then you will look over your shoulder and wonder where your life went because now your every moment will be spent either directly involved in hawking, or on this damn site talking about hawking. You will ask, what you feel to be, perfectly straightforward questions and get a multitude of differant answers and that will blow your mind unless you have a personal
philosophy and a foundation of tcehnical knowledge. Thats where the course comes in...but it is my personal belief that you need to feel comfotable with the philosphy of the person teaching you as well as respecting of their experience and knowledge. Hopefully that person will become your mentor and guide you through initial and long term difficulties...you will be wedded to their way of doing things, so how they do things matters. Don't just look for the nearest course because it may not be the best course for you.
Books are essential and, again, you will find that some feel as if they have been written specially for you and some sort of jarr with how you think. Being new is not the same as being stupid and we each bring our existing philosophy of life into what we do. The great classics will become an important part of your library but will not necessarily make the most sense at this stage........ I was weaned on Emma Ford...Martin Hollinshead..Phillip Glasier and absolutely any personal account of life with an Eagle that I could lay my hands on. I also think that Cooper's Veterinary Aspects of Captive Birds of Prey and Nick Fox's Understanding the Bird of Prey are essential. Also get youself a copy of the latest IBR Falconry Directory because that tells you loads of stuff. Coch-Y-Bonddu Books is very good www.anglebooks.com The Falconry site on ebay has also got lots of goodies for sale especially books.
Finally, make sure that the important people in your life support your passion
or you end up with serious problems when you are never where you say you are going to be because you always have far more interesting things to do.
Long, long reply...sorry! Also others advice may be entirely differant to mine, which sort of proves a point really :lol: Good luck to you.

[BKnight]

Rene,
thanks for taking the time for your reply, there's a lot of sound advice in there that I'm sure is applicable to keeping any (working) animals.

By the time I'm able to own a bird, I should have plenty of time, its just the rest that makes me nervous.

Again,
thanks

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hi Brian
if only everyone comming into the sport had the same concerns. By keeping this in mind you will not go too far wrong.

[BlackShaheen1]

Rene,
thanks for taking the time for your reply, there's a lot of sound advice in there that I'm sure is applicable to keeping any (working) animals.

By the time I'm able to own a bird, I should have plenty of time, its just the rest that makes me nervous.

Again,
thanks
if it makes you nervous why bother .if you dont mind me asking what do you want from falconry .is it just to keep a bird or is it to just fly or is it to hunt once you have decided then it is easer to follow a certain path

[Jackson]

hiya welcome to the mad sport of falconry.

firstly ask yourself these and answer honsestly:

do you have time? at least more than a wekend to spend with the bird, even better would you be able to fly your bird or mann it at least once a day (or 6 days a week) (obviously there are some exceptions)

what kand if any do you have permission to fly on? what quarry do you have? rabbits and pheasants are suitable for a hh

do you have the money to buy thye bird, equipment, aviary, food

how much do you know? silly question? its surprising how many people just go out and but a bop like they would a hamster
make sure you know people around you who can help - local falconers, centres, vets clubs etc
its always worth getting involved in a centre of club cos they can teach you loads in safe envrinomnet for you and the bird!

and what do you want out of the bird: hunting or flying causually?
all the best

[BKnight]

if it makes you nervous why bother.

If most people followed that line of advice then I think people would lead very boring lives. Isn't it natural to be nervous about starting something completely new.


if you dont mind me asking what do you want from falconry .is it just to keep a bird or is it to just fly or is it to hunt once you have decided then it is easer to follow a certain path

Ideally, I would like to hunt with whatever bird I get.

[BKnight]

hiya welcome to the mad sport of falconry.

firstly ask yourself these and answer honsestly:

do you have time? at least more than a wekend to spend with the bird, even better would you be able to fly your bird or mann it at least once a day (or 6 days a week) (obviously there are some exceptions)

what kand if any do you have permission to fly on? what quarry do you have? rabbits and pheasants are suitable for a hh

do you have the money to buy thye bird, equipment, aviary, food

how much do you know? silly question? its surprising how many people just go out and but a bop like they would a hamster
make sure you know people around you who can help - local falconers, centres, vets clubs etc
its always worth getting involved in a centre of club cos they can teach you loads in safe envrinomnet for you and the bird!

and what do you want out of the bird: hunting or flying causually?
all the best

Thanks for taking the time to write Sarah,
as I've said earlier, I dont have the time yet, but in the not too distant future I will have plenty. Money will not be a problem. Ideally I will hunt with the bird.

As for the remaining questions, I think I've already shown my ignorance and am waiting for (and already receiving, I might gratefully add) advice on those very questions.

Thanks for taking the time
Brian

[MattSpar]

By the time I'm able to own a bird, I should have plenty of time, its just the rest that makes me nervous.

If you're going to have plenty of time, then there's really no need to be nervous of anything. To put things into perspective, you're not contemplating stealing the Crown Jewels, nor getting married, nor moving to another country. Falconry is there for anyone with enough time and dedication to enjoy. See if there's someone on this forum that's...
1. Fairly near you, and...
2. Competent in the sport, not another beginner, but someone with a wealth of experience.
Spend as much time with them as you can spare. Ask any question that comes to mind, however daft it may seem to you...
3. Make a decision based on realism, not pipe-dreams...
...and the best of British Luck.

[Nathan]

Hello BKnight

See if there are any local bird of prey centres that you would be able to do volunteer work with. This will introduce you to the day to day aspect of BOP keeping like, cleaning, feeding and general handling. If you can put up with having to gut and prep quail first thing on a Sunday morning then the rest will be plain sailing. I agree with the books that have been recommended, I would add Jemima Parry-Jones' Training Birds of Prey.

[BKnight]

If you're going to have plenty of time, then there's really no need to be nervous of anything. To put things into perspective, you're not contemplating stealing the Crown Jewels, nor getting married, nor moving to another country. Falconry is there for anyone with enough time and dedication to enjoy. See if there's someone on this forum that's...
1. Fairly near you, and...
2. Competent in the sport, not another beginner, but someone with a wealth of experience.
Spend as much time with them as you can spare. Ask any question that comes to mind, however daft it may seem to you...
3. Make a decision based on realism, not pipe-dreams...
...and the best of British Luck.

Thanks Matt, as I said to BlackShaheen1 - the nervousness is just the natural nervousness most people get when they set out on something new, tho when it comes to marriage I think that is closer to terror than nervousness.

As for the rest, sound advice that I will be taking.
Thanks again

[BKnight]

Hello BKnight

See if there are any local bird of prey centres that you would be able to do volunteer work with. This will introduce you to the day to day aspect of BOP keeping like, cleaning, feeding and general handling. If you can put up with having to gut and prep quail first thing on a Sunday morning then the rest will be plain sailing. I agree with the books that have been recommended, I would add Jemima Parry-Jones' Training Birds of Prey.

Thanks Nathan, Helen (Hells99) has suggested 1 that is within reasonable travelling distance from me, I may try and get over there and check it out. Thanks for the mention of the book, another to add to my list.

[GoodFooter]

there have been a few suggestions that you'll be too busy because of your job??????? I thought your profile said your a solicitor......... mine charges £200 per hour....... you'll have plenty of time !!!!!!!!might have to give up the lunch hours and golf on friday and hey you could always start early and finish early say 11am and finish at 1pm...... only joking of course !!!!!!!!! good luck and dont be put off..... falconry is a drug once hooked career takes second place!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MattSpar]

Regarding books, at the top of the list, I'd put Phillip Glazier's "Falconry and Hawking" without a shadow of a doubt. It's the best one written for a very long time. Yes, it's a little dated now, but the basic aspects of falconry never date. The chapter on "Condition" is the best explanation of this issue I've ever read. It's clear, concise, readable and informative, as is the whole book.
There are other good ones, and also some I'd never recommend and these include anything by Humphrey ap Evans, and particularly Emma Ford. No, I've nothing against the lady personally but reading her books I've come to the conclusion that the whole essence of the sport, namely flying at quarry, is either something very largely outside her experience, or an area she considers unimportant.

[Jack Merlin]

......when it comes to marriage I think that is closer to terror than nervousness.



If that is under consideration, a falconer would be wise to follow Mr Punch's advice: "Don't".

[Jack Merlin]

.....I thought your profile said your a solicitor.........

Damn it! You're right! He is!!

Just what we need here, some authoritative legal advice. Free, of course. Or exchanged in lieu.<vbg>

[GoodFooter]

Damn it! You're right! He is!!

Just what we need here, some authoritative legal advice. Free, of course. Or exchanged in lieu.<vbg>
well on that basis any hookers on the forum?:)

[Intek Hosting]

Just what we need here, some authoritative legal advice. Free, of course. Or exchanged in lieu.<vbg>

I was wondering how long it would take some yorkshire or scotsman to say that :-)
I will just second what everyone has said about time, and if youre looking at scaling down your work time remember the bird will need to be fed even during those long holidays you probably have planned for later in life.

I didnt do a course, but I was lucky enough to find a really good mentor in the guy who bred my hawk. Couldnt possibly thank Dave enough.
If youre thinking if a young hawk, I wouldnt fault you at all, but try and at least see a young untrained bird and if possible watch someone training a young bird before you buy one.

As for scaling down your work hours, good luck round here, this lot will keep you more busy than you've ever been.

Know anything about cat law??

[MattSpar]

I was wondering how long it would take some yorkshire or scotsman to say that :-)
I will just second what everyone has said about time, and if youre looking at scaling down your work time remember the bird will need to be fed even during those long holidays you probably have planned for later in life.

I didnt do a course, but I was lucky enough to find a really good mentor in the guy who bred my hawk. Couldnt possibly thank Dave enough.
If youre thinking if a young hawk, I wouldnt fault you at all, but try and at least see a young untrained bird and if possible watch someone training a young bird before you buy one.

As for scaling down your work hours, good luck round here, this lot will keep you more busy than you've ever been.

Know anything about cat law??

If I may, I'd just like to add to this that if you practice falconry there's no reason why you should not still go off on holiday and do all the things "normal" people do. Friends board their hawks with each other during family holidays just as people do with cats and dogs. Falconry will and should be a major part of life, but it needn't rule it to the exclusion of all else.

[BKnight]

there have been a few suggestions that you'll be too busy because of your job??????? I thought your profile said your a solicitor......... mine charges £200 per hour....... you'll have plenty of time !!!!!!!!might have to give up the lunch hours and golf on friday and hey you could always start early and finish early say 11am and finish at 1pm...... only joking of course !!!!!!!!! good luck and dont be put off..... falconry is a drug once hooked career takes second place!!!!!!!!!!!!

You missed the bit where I said that (semi)retirement is in site - thats when I get the plenty of time, but not for a couple of years or so yet - but thought I would start learning so I'm ready.

[BKnight]

Know anything about cat law??

Note my normal area of work, but I had a quick look for online copies of the appropriate Act for you, note that not only is it illegal to hurt and scare pussy cats, it's also a crime to infuriate them - so dont go telling them jokes about blonde cats, you could end up in court !!

DEFRA has a brief version
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/index.htm#1911

The full act + amendments can be found here
http://www.veggieglobal.com/protection-of-animals-act-uk.htm

[BKnight]

PS - thats the only freebie you get - Scotsmen & Yorkshiremen are beginners compared to the legal profession.