Scales - Digital, Weights or Dial?

[HappyHarris]

Hi All,

I would like your votes on which works best for you and why as I am having a dilemma on making a decision for my own scales???

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

Weights cant go wrong.

[Sprout]

Weights cant go wrong.
Unless you drop them on your foot...then it goes very wrong!!:lol:

[Sprout]

I personally use balance weights for larger birds and dial-o-grams for the smaller birds.

[HappyHarris]

Thanks guys, I'm using mine for a Barn Owl - does that influence you one way or the other? I also fly Harris Hawkes.....:)

[FlameHairedFalconer]

No - Id still have balance for the larger birds and digital for the smaller ones.

FHF

[HappyHarris]

Thankyou FHF! (BTW Just voted for you :rolleyes: )

PS Can you tell me what the little green 'eggs' are all about? How do you get them and what do they mean?

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Its not rigged folks onist!

HH - you will find all you need to know about the reputation points here:

http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=13193&highlight=reputation

FHF

[HappyHarris]

Thank you!

No - I just happened to have checked out the new posts :-P

[Matthew Patching]

I use shop digital scales for big and small, took me a while to re-program them though, they kept telling me that my eagle cost £6.99,lol

Seriously the only choice should be the division that they work in.

For any bird below 1lb the division should be 1/16th oz, for birds 1lb-2lb 1/8oz and for anything over 2lb then 1/4oz will suffice.

This has nothing to do with the fact that larger birds need less acurate scales, it is just very hard to get an acurate weight on a large bird on small division scales.

For all my birds at work I use gram scales except for the canaries and finches in which case my scales go down to 1/2gram.
ME:)

[HappyHarris]

ME, Thankyou for that - it helps me understand a lot better why one over the other or not as the case may be, much appreciated :supz:

[Jimmy]

I use digital postal scales. They weigh up to 5 pounds and will weigh in grams or ounces, in 1 gram increments. They are small, light weight,and accurate. Not to mention, inexpensive. About $25.00 US. I've had the same set for almost 5 years and haven't had any problems. A piece of plastic PVC pipe epoxied on with a paint roller for a perch.

[HappyHarris]

Hi Jimmy,

Thankyou for the pic, they're a great idea......my little guy is often 1/4 or 1/8 of an oz up or down though so I may need something a little more er detailed (not quite the right wording but I'm sure you follow :oops: )

[Matthew Patching]

Hi Jimmy,

Thankyou for the pic, they're a great idea......my little guy is often 1/4 or 1/8 of an oz up or down though so I may need something a little more er detailed (not quite the right wording but I'm sure you follow :oops: )

These would be fine for you, If you use garams then you have 28.34 grams to an oz, so if using single gram scales you would be weighing in 1/28 of an oz.

Many thanks
Matt:)

[Wilfred]

One of the best scales available at current times, at least for falcons and spar and so, is the digital scale of Frans Lenders falconry equipment the Netherlands. Same falconer making one of the best falconry gloves available on the market at current times. And his hoods are also good quality.

For hoods i know better suppliers. His gloves are great but rather thick in my own opinion for falcons. In the sense that i prefer thinner gloves for handling falcons. And since i never had a bigger hawk i prefer another glove i have.

But his scales are the best to me!

His website : http://www.falconry-equipment.com/

[Dave G]

ive used both digital and the scales with the weights and for me the digital ones win hands down ;)

[OutFlying]

If going to buy a set of digital scales then two most important features must be consider ------


1) can they be calibrated if they go out of calibration ?

This rules out most of the cheap **** that falconry suppliers stick perches on and suddenly they become falconry scales.

2) are they heavy enough to remain stationary with a bating or moving hawk ?

This again rules out most of the falconry suppliers scales.


If using digital scales why not buy a decent set or a second shop scale.


The ones I prefer to use are battery or mains powered, portable and waterproof. 6000 gram capacity and in 1 gram increments. This type of scale will take a heavy perch that won't move and still weigh any hawk / falcon.

Jim.

[Lurcer]

i use a converted set of digital wholesale scales, they are usely accurate and weigh in lb, ounces, kg or grams, if you cant find a set from your local veg shop, then try http://www.scalemart.co.uk/, they sell a great range of scales, i have a spare pair from here which cust me a little under 130 quid, they are a heavy duty set of scales, that no bird will nock over, and are amazingly accurate...

[Kevin Massey]

i use counter balance all the time....tried digi scales which went out by 1 oz....a buddy of mine's went out by 3 oz


at least with counterbalance you always know where you are....well untill you loose the god dame 1/2 and 1/4 oz:roll:

[Kevin Massey]

2) are they heavy enough to remain stationary with a bating or moving hawk ?

good point jim...glued a piece of granite to the bottom of mine

[Finnish]

Bought these at the fair off Ben Long...

[OutFlying]

Take them back next year :rolleyes: at the fair.

[Kevin Massey]

ay up jim i still have them ones i got off ebay aswell.........still aint used them either:roll:

[Finnish]

Don't say that Jim i have been through about five sets in 2 years whats wrong with these have not used them yet...:cry:

[Kevin Massey]

Don't say that Jim i have been through about five sets in the 2 years whats wrong with these have not used them yet...:cry:

were they all like this lee....if so no wonder why:lol:

[OutFlying]

Buy cheap - replace often Lee :lol:

can you alter the calibration if they go out of calibration ? and not the heaviest for stability.

Jim.

ps They are kitchen scales from argos with a bit stuck on :supz:

[Finnish]

I must admit the others were all cheap but these were £70.00. I hope they will be alright..

[OutFlying]

When they break, keep the perch to stick on a decent set. Give me a bell (next time) and I'll source you a decent secondhand set out.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

Lee,
They are worth £38

http://www.ourweigh.co.uk/erol.html#home

[Finnish]

Cheers and you no what i just turn them on and they keep coming up with error..:oops:

[Kevin Massey]

Cheers and you no what i just turn them on and they keep coming up with error..:oops:

sorry lee but....pmsl:lol:

[Kevin Massey]

got these if anyone wants to make an offer....i will convert and ballance them

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/mass2k5/scales9.jpg

[Finnish]

Do you no what i don't care i got loads of money. I'm a Central Heating installer. I just by a new set...:lol: :lol: :lol:

[OutFlying]

Cheers and you no what i just turn them on and they keep coming up with error..:oops:


Priceless - check the battery.

[Natch]

robbing c,,t

[OutFlying]

These are a good option Lee, would work well with your perch stuck on them.


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TANITA-DIGITAL-PRECISION-SCALES-TLC-100-15KG-RP-245_W0QQitemZ7620374581QQcategoryZ112391QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

[Jimmy]

2) are they heavy enough to remain stationary with a bating or moving hawk ?

.

Your bird should be trained enough that it doesn't bate while being weighed.
Your scales look massive and not very portable?

[OutFlying]

Very good Jimmy,
How about weighing a fresh hawk or something similar.
The scales are portable I assure you.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

very similar to these - a spar is on them to gauge the size of them ;)

I used this for 3 seasons before getting a newer version.


Jim.

[Harris]

any digital scales can be checked against a known weight to see if they are gaining or losing, even a £5.00 Argos kitchen scales can be used as a stop gap for a trained bird.

[OutFlying]

And how do the know the error is constant other than at the exact known weight ?

[Harris]

And how do the know the error is constant other than at the exact known weight ?

I appreciate what you say but if they are consistant every day, it doesn't matter how much over or under they are, (to a degree) they would be fine for dropping a birds weight after the moult, as the birds flying weight will probably be different to last seasons anyway. (hope that makes sense)

[OutFlying]

Why not just have an accurate pair of scales to start with ?

Jim.

[Kevin Massey]

jim are you saying that scales could be out by say 1 oz @ 1 lb...and say 1.5 oz @ 2lb?

[OutFlying]

I appreciate what you say but if they are consistant every day, it doesn't matter how much over or under they are, (to a degree) they would be fine for dropping a birds weight after the moult, as the birds flying weight will probably be different to last seasons anyway. (hope that makes sense)

last seasons weight counts for nothing, day to day variables are needed, factors such as type of land, food type, flying in company etc etc.

just get a decent set of scales, it ain't difficult.

[OutFlying]

jim are you saying that scales could be out by say 1 oz @ 1 lb...and say 1.5 oz @ 2lb?

Yes Kev,
They can be accurate at one weight and be off by quite a bit lower down the range.

Jim.

ps I calibrate weighing systems for a living ;)

[Harris]

Why not just have an accurate pair of scales to start with ?

Jim.

As I said "a stop gap"

[OutFlying]

Just for you Finnish,

Weighed 2 different female goshawks tonight on the scales, you can see the perch is tall enough and wide enough to accomodate them easily.

First 2 photographs of Jeremy Edwards imprint female, last 2 photographs of Cliff Bramhall imprint female.

Yours Jim.

ps Did your kitchen scales come to life again :rolleyes:

[Finnish]

Cheers Jim is the last one Annie.. Scales i need to get some new batters this weekend..:twisted:

[OutFlying]

Yes Lee, that's Annie.

Jim.

[Pink_Eagle]

i use sum kitchen scales thy are the upright type where the bowl is ment to sit on the top and i have tied a bit a roled up tea towel on top, wouldnt use thm for a bigger bird but work fine for a barny

[DeathFromAbove]

Personally I use balance scales myself as they can always be relyed upon to be right (if it's a good set).

Sorry that you'r leccy ones are on the blink finnish. I saw the same one next to set of balance ones ben long had at the fair and have to say I thought the balance ones he was selling looked pretty good, thinking of upgrading to them. Maybe you should have got them em bud.

Anyone got a set of ben longs balance scales? do they work well?

[Matthew Patching]

i use sum kitchen scales thy are the upright type where the bowl is ment to sit on the top and i have tied a bit a roled up tea towel on top, wouldnt use thm for a bigger bird but work fine for a barny

I wouldnt advise using this type of scale for anything other than weighing ingedients out as over time the spring becomes weak and then this leads to you getting inacurate weights.

I know this cuz I thought that they were alright aswell, about 15 years ago, but I killed a musket with my ignorance and have punished myself ever since.
ME:cry:

[Pink_Eagle]

I wouldnt advise using this type of scale for anything other than weighing ingedients out as over time the spring becomes weak and then this leads to you getting inacurate weights.

I know this cuz I thought that they were alright aswell, about 15 years ago, but I killed a musket with my ignorance and have punished myself ever since.
ME


i understand wot u are saying and check thn reguly against known weight as wel as keepin check on her keel,
but i dont think i wud use thm on a bird tht is goin through training
the same could be said for digital scales, how will you know if thy arnt reading the weight correctly?

[OutFlying]

Pink eagle - the scales you describe are the worst kind for accuracy and calibration. Not advised for falconry.

If you want to check the accuracy of a digital scale - buy a set of weights to check them with. But a decent set will not go out of calibration easily and if treated correctly will last a lifetime. Look at the scales in a supermarket - 1000's of weighing per day without affecting calibration, you don't see the balance ones in use much these days AND YOU WILL NEVER have seen your type of scales used to weigh anything to sell due to the fact they wouldn't pass the tests of accuracy needed.


I didn't think it was that hard, difficult or expensive to buy quality scales but now reading this thread I was wrong.

Jim.

[Pegasus]

I use digital for my barn owl and weights for the harris. It is a lot easier with digital for smaller adjustments in weight.:)

[Falconry Equipment International]

stick with the balance scales deb, eventually the digital will fail, its worth getting to know those balance scales , the WILL last a life time! and you don't need any more batteries!

[Sprout]

Scales aren't as important as most suggest - although if you rigidly stick to weighing then accuracy of your scales is fundamental. What I think is more important is to realise weighing is only a tool in helping you judge the condition of your hawk in preparation for flying - not the only thing as some suggest in their posts. I weigh my hawks but also pinch the keel daily, when you get to know your hawk you should be able to second guess the weight and how she will fly purely by how she responds/acts and how she feels. Stating a bird will fly at a given weight is dangerous game for a number of reasons - 1) peoples scales will have some degree of difference, for a large bird that may be minimal but a big change for a smaller raptor 2) a a bird can be at a similar weight at different ends of the scale ie fat and unfit or lean and fit (muscle weighs heavier than fat), pinching up will help determine this.
I whole hearted agree with the thread in that if you use scales get the most accurate you can, but don;t loose out on other skills such as pinching up!!! Otherwise if you have probs and ask advice on here how can people help?? How many threads do you read saying my bird does this or that, HH doesn;t hunt etc??? Stating the HH is on weight at 2lb or whatever means nothing unless you also state the keel is keen and well muscled?? 2lb for some peoples birds will be well fat, others over lean???

[DeathFromAbove]

Scales aren't as important as most suggest - although if you rigidly stick to weighing then accuracy of your scales is fundamental. What I think is more important is to realise weighing is only a tool in helping you judge the condition of your hawk in preparation for flying - not the only thing as some suggest in their posts. I weigh my hawks but also pinch the keel daily, when you get to know your hawk you should be able to second guess the weight and how she will fly purely by how she responds/acts and how she feels. Stating a bird will fly at a given weight is dangerous game for a number of reasons - 1) peoples scales will have some degree of difference, for a large bird that may be minimal but a big change for a smaller raptor 2) a a bird can be at a similar weight at different ends of the scale ie fat and unfit or lean and fit (muscle weighs heavier than fat), pinching up will help determine this.
I whole hearted agree with the thread in that if you use scales get the most accurate you can, but don;t loose out on other skills such as pinching up!!! Otherwise if you have probs and ask advice on here how can people help?? How many threads do you read saying my bird does this or that, HH doesn;t hunt etc??? Stating the HH is on weight at 2lb or whatever means nothing unless you also state the keel is keen and well muscled?? 2lb for some peoples birds will be well fat, others over lean???

Totally agree mate, good post, as you know there is also the internal fat that a hawk will need to loose if being flown in the weeks from taking up from the moult which will also have a bearing on her response as well as what you've mentioned.

[Falconry Equipment International]

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Scales aren't as important as most suggest - although if you rigidly stick to weighing then accuracy of your scales is fundamental. What I think is more important is to realise weighing is only a tool in helping you judge the condition of your hawk in preparation for flying - not the only thing as some suggest in their posts. I weigh my hawks but also pinch the keel daily, when you get to know your hawk you should be able to second guess the weight and how she will fly purely by how she responds/acts and how she feels. Stating a bird will fly at a given weight is dangerous game for a number of reasons - 1) peoples scales will have some degree of difference, for a large bird that may be minimal but a big change for a smaller raptor 2) a a bird can be at a similar weight at different ends of the scale ie fat and unfit or lean and fit (muscle weighs heavier than fat), pinching up will help determine this.
I whole hearted agree with the thread in that if you use scales get the most accurate you can, but don;t loose out on other skills such as pinching up!!! Otherwise if you have probs and ask advice on here how can people help?? How many threads do you read saying my bird does this or that, HH doesn;t hunt etc??? Stating the HH is on weight at 2lb or whatever means nothing unless you also state the keel is keen and well muscled?? 2lb for some peoples birds will be well fat, others over lean???
Hi karl, as You know I quite agree , ( & think you may have read I hav eflown 2 gosses fro at least a a season without weighing them onc edue to losing scales etc in a house fire, scales are an important tool to help with the weight/ condition management balance ) HTH

[Sprout]

I almost never weigh my HH but if I do can normally guesstimate her weight to within 1/4 ounce from pinching her up and seeing how she responds. However I weighed the minor tiercel, the very gradual loss in weight picked up by the dial-o-grams ultimately saved his life.

[OutFlying]

Weight on the scales doesn't make the hawk fly - the weight recorded on the scales is the result of everything else you do to the hawk, so if your going to weigh it at least make sure the equipment your using provides ACCURATE and CONSISTENT readings.

Jim.

[Sprout]

Weight on the scales doesn't make the hawk fly - the weight recorded on the scales is the result of everything else you do to the hawk, so if your going to weigh it at least make sure the equipment your using provides ACCURATE and CONSISTENT readings.

Jim.

BANG ON

[OutFlying]

Cheers Sprout :supz:

[Falconry Equipment International]

Hmm Karl & Jim , just reread my previous posting and realised that I left the importanmt part out ie worked 2 gosses for a whole season without weighing them once, ie on pure maintenance/ condition/ body language and have had some astounding flights too boote! ( ie 100-300yds slips at pheasantr/ partridge , great arcing flights that I never saw, HOWEVER I do not suggets this for a falconer / austringer tat is fully competent and and confident in weight and condintion maintenance. Hope this makes sense .

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Hmm Karl & Jim , just reread my previous posting and realised that I left the importanmt part out ie worked 2 gosses for a whole season without weighing them once, ie on pure maintenance/ condition/ body language and have had some astounding flights too boote! ( ie 100-300yds slips at pheasantr/ partridge , great arcing flights that I never saw, HOWEVER I do not suggets this for a falconer / austringer tat is fully competent and and confident in weight and condintion maintenance. Hope this makes sense .

Most definately Julian. Its very important for a novice to realise that initially the scales are his and the hawks best friend, its only as they both grow in confidence and ability that the scales become a 'check' not the gospel. This is why scales need to be the best quality you can buy, cheap scales are a false economy.

FHF

[Sprout]

Most definately Julian. Its very important for a novice to realise that initially the scales are his and the hawks best friend, its only as they both grow in confidence and ability that the scales become a 'check' not the gospel. This is why scales need to be the best quality you can buy, cheap scales are a false economy.

FHF
Again, well said.

[Pink_Eagle]

Pink eagle - the scales you describe are the worst kind for accuracy and calibration. Not advised for falconry.

If you want to check the accuracy of a digital scale - buy a set of weights to check them with. But a decent set will not go out of calibration easily and if treated correctly will last a lifetime. Look at the scales in a supermarket - 1000's of weighing per day without affecting calibration, you don't see the balance ones in use much these days AND YOU WILL NEVER have seen your type of scales used to weigh anything to sell due to the fact they wouldn't pass the tests of accuracy needed.


they will weigh to a 1/4 of an ounce, and when ever thy are checkd against known weights thy are always correct, so for me thy are acurate enough, in fact dont think i need more acurate thn 1/4 of an ounce

[HappyHarris]

Sprout, thankyou for a very valuable and informative post - I have to agree that yes weighing is important but in the long term it is vital to grow to know your bird and their current state by pinching up as well. It is something I am a bit too new to do or know with any accuracy but which I hope over time I will get a good understanding of so I am currently using a good pair of kitchen type scales adapted and tested prior to each weigh-in with an 8oz weight and they haven't faltered as yet but I heed the warnings given and will not risk my bird for the sake of a few more pounds :) I am also pinching up daily to get a feel for what he's like as fat and what I am currently working on as 'normal' for him, though he's pretty easy to tell with because of being quite little to start with - I can tell immediately if he'll be ok or up just by looking at him and it's very obvious to the eye when he's down, even with a drop of 1/4 - 1/2oz bless him.

[Falconry Equipment International]

Again, well said.
Why thank you Karl & Hattie:rolleyes: :wink:

[Falconry Equipment International]

they will weigh to a 1/4 of an ounce, and when ever thy are checkd against known weights thy are always correct, so for me thy are acurate enough, in fact dont think i need more acurate thn 1/4 of an ounce
sophie please do take this on board. I dont know what Bop you fly , but I fly my ~Peregrines to either 1/4 or even 1/8 oz and these are avery govenement stamped weights. HTH

[GregMik]

they will weigh to a 1/4 of an ounce, and when ever thy are checkd against known weights thy are always correct, so for me thy are acurate enough, in fact dont think i need more acurate thn 1/4 of an ounce

PE,
I am sorry but this is not good advice. If you are just flying a Barn Owl it may be ok. But for Falconry, better weight management is key to flying. I use a scale that weighs to with in a gram. When and if you ever start to fly smaller hawks or falcons at game you will need even more accuracy. Tasha has a .1g scale for her Sharpshinned hawks. When you are flying a 75g Male sharpie 1 gram can make a difference in performance.

Greg

[TheZuffler]

Just moved over from digital to these, I won't be going back to digital!!:wink:

[Sprout]

Why astro on both sides?? Or is that just to counter balance?? I use Ohaus dial-o-grams, good bit of kit.

[TheZuffler]

Why astro on both sides?? Or is that just to counter balance?? I use Ohaus dial-o-grams, good bit of kit.

Just to counter balance. They are so finely balanced I found I was unscrewing the setting to max, and therefore would have no adjustment if required. I was originally after the triple beam but got these (with magnetic dampening) and agree they make a good bit of kit.

[Ned]

Personally I use balance scales myself as they can always be relyed upon to be right (if it's a good set).

Sorry that you'r leccy ones are on the blink finnish. I saw the same one next to set of balance ones ben long had at the fair and have to say I thought the balance ones he was selling looked pretty good, thinking of upgrading to them. Maybe you should have got them em bud.

Anyone got a set of ben longs balance scales? do they work well?
d.f.a.,i`ve used the heavy ben long balance scales for a good no. of years good sturdy peice of kit.atb ned.