re-hab

[Wightwings]

ok lets open a sensible debate and potential hornets nest here.

i constantly come across the "re-abilitator" type person that has a fair menagery of BoP with missing legs, wings etc etc.

If actively breeding fine..however i have very strong and direct views on this.......if a BoP cannot hunt then it should be put to sleep......full stop.

views and comments appreciated.

[GregMik]

Moved.....

[GregMik]

What about education?

Greg

[Wightwings]

fair point Greg but surely using a "fully functional" specimen is more appropriate?

[Accipter-Gentilis]

hmmm i want to hear the replies here WW i would say if the quality and care for it is second too none and the bird is happy in such an enviroment then let it be i say,but this is a mine-field and i no others wont agree so come on lets have your views these are mine.

[Kevin Massey]

chris for me it depends on the bird...both the breed and what it was doing before hand...

some factors may include a rarer falcon speices.... or it the bird was in a breeding project anyhow and the injury would not affect that...

However if it was one of my own "hunting birds"... it could be a different matter.

[Accipter-Gentilis]

an accipiter most probaly die with shock so i think that rules them out;-)

[Wightwings]

hmmm i want to hear the replies here WW i would say if the quality and care for it is second too none and the bird is happy in such an enviroment then let it be i say,but this is a mine-field and i no others wont agree so come on lets have your views these are mine.


a complete moral minefield i agree......i have had some surprising conversations in the past and got views from peeps i wouldnt have thought would have the one they did.......

[Wightwings]

agree Kev i have diff views for areas were breeding programmes may be needed......perhaps i should narrow the band a little......i generally see HH's, Kestral's, buzzards, owls etc.....the more common "falconry" type birds

[Liam Hay]

I agree Chris they should be put out of there misery unless 2 conditions come in to play

1, its a sensitive species and captive breeding would be an attribute, and is acheivable

2, a sensitive species that would benefit education

I can't think of a BOP in the Uk this would help except maybe Harriers

Liam

[Finnish]

This is a tough one Chris. I do agree with some of what you say. But I no some one who has breed out of a wild disabled Spar and the young were very good birds.

[Wightwings]

active breeding isnt an issue for me.....its the general palce were they are all kept for the sake of keeping it seems....

[Accipter-Gentilis]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a tough one Chris. I do agree with some of what you say. But I no some one who has breed out of a wild disabled Spar and the young were very good birds.

how bad was it incapacitated finnish?

9 out of ten times i was under the impression that the stress levels occured with the innitial injury they usually pass away.

[Falcon]

I tend to agree with you Chris on this one. It also depends on what the bird has been used to prior. Personally if it's quality of life has gone, then I reckon you need to be cruel to be kind.

[Finnish]

Not realy that sure mate so would not like to comment...:D

[Kevin Massey]

active breeding isnt an issue for me.....its the general palce were they are all kept for the sake of keeping it seems....

in this case i would feel that the quality of life had deminished to the point that it maybe better put down

[MoltenMetal]

i would have said euthanasia was the way to go until i saw the pic of the one legged passage harris on here now i would have to say it would depend on its quality of life

[GregMik]

fair point Greg but surely using a "fully functional" specimen is more appropriate?

The problem over here is the USFWS will very rarely give an Education permit to someone with fully flighted birds. So most of the rehabers use injured birds for there education programs. Oh, these are also two separate permits. You almost have to have an education permit if you are a rehabber as you can't make any money with a rehab permit while you can with an education permit. You can't make money off of your falconry birds either.

Greg

[Hacker]

How do people equate "quality of life ".
Or "put them out of their misery"
Bops are born bop`s and hunt out of necessity in order to survive as dictated by their genes.
It is human nature to tag "emotion" to another beings plight.
Why is a healed, disabled bird in "misery".
If kept under conditions where it is well fed and safe from predators then surely this statement is hard to justify.
Quality of life is another one, most bop`s fly for necessity not pleasure, although i am not saying at times they do not fly for pleasure or courtship, but again this could be classed as a necessity in order to keep the species alive.
I for one feel that if an animal/birds main requirements are met for survival then it will be content in it`s situation.
If this was not the case then why do wild disabled bop`s breed?
Accipiters amongst these?
No, I am sorry but i feel it is down to emotion, a falconer feels it cannot hunt so kill it, whilst a rehabillitator will feel ,i can give it a quality of life so it should survive.

[Hells99]

you're right Wightwings, this is a minefield and the 2 opposing parties will have equally strong views.
My personal opinion is that if they have a large aviary, good food and a fair degree of privacy and company of their own type, then they can have a comfortable life of good quality.
I understand the point of view of people who say 'If it can't live a fully wild life then put it down' but I don't personally subscribe to that view. Helen

[GregMik]

The problem over here is the USFWS will very rarely give an Education permit to someone with fully flighted birds. So most of the rehabers use injured birds for there education programs. Oh, these are also two separate permits. You almost have to have an education permit if you are a rehabber as you can't make any money with a rehab permit while you can with an education permit. You can't make money off of your falconry birds either.

Greg

These are very general statements as there are details for everything.

Greg