good diet

[Paddy1]

hi all just wondering what would you lot class as a good diet for bops
ie when wanting to drop weight for traing purposes and gain weight ?

[Coedhirion]

Kinda depends on the breed of the bird. Chick is a good cheap staple diet, rabbit about the same quality, tho some parts are higher ie lungs and stuff. Increasing or decreasing weight you still require injections of higher food value as in quail, mouse or rat etc. So to decrease weight just decrease the amount slowly etc. Some people use washed meat or beef when decreasing weight. It makes the bird think it is full but hasn't a lot of feed value. Big subject if you go in to it all properly.

[Paddy1]

Kinda depends on the breed of the bird. Chick is a good cheap staple diet, rabbit about the same quality, tho some parts are higher ie lungs and stuff. Increasing or decreasing weight you still require injections of higher food value as in quail, mouse or rat etc. So to decrease weight just decrease the amount slowly etc. Some people use washed meat or beef when decreasing weight. It makes the bird think it is full but hasn't a lot of feed value. Big subject if you go in to it all properly.


its for a f hh hawks just want to know so when im traing hr i can adjust weight without starvation just different types of food (if that makes sense) which part o0f the cow do people feed ?

[Coedhirion]

its for a f hh hawks just want to know so when im traing hr i can adjust weight without starvation just different types of food (if that makes sense) which part o0f the cow do people feed ?

Just the beef mince you buy in shops, then washed. I don't use it. Most of the training and hunting with a HH can be done on chick. It is nice & easy too cut in to about 20 little bits when flying on the creance and a leg or foot makes a good pick up bit :lol: Incase you didn't know, it is best to de-yolk them, less messy for you and one chick a week with yolk is about enough. If I am not hunting the next day or want to push the weight up a little bit, use the rat or quail as it gives that extra zing, but too much "feel good" factor if the bird's weight is high could spell trouble. Feeding to a weight and finding the best weight for a bird is quite hard and very important if you want the best performance you can get
All the best

[Paddy1]

Just the beef mince you buy in shops, then washed. I don't use it. Most of the training and hunting with a HH can be done on chick. It is nice & easy too cut in to about 20 little bits when flying on the creance and a leg or foot makes a good pick up bit :lol: Incase you didn't know, it is best to de-yolk them, less messy for you and one chick a week with yolk is about enough. If I am not hunting the next day or want to push the weight up a little bit, use the rat or quail as it gives that extra zing, but too much "feel good" factor if the bird's weight is high could spell trouble. Feeding to a weight and finding the best weight for a bird is quite hard and very important if you want the best performance you can get
All the best



yeh thanks alot do doubt their will be das when i make a mistake and over feed while ut flying and end up sitting under a tree untill she decides to down (not to many i hopelol) but i tll you what i bet i dont make the same mistake again all part of the learning process i suppose

[Paddy1]

it is best to de-yolk them, less messy for you and one chick a week with yolk is about enough.

no i dont mate do you mean gut them ?

[Sprout]

It is for little things like this ie what/when/how much to feed etc that you need a mentor for - things will be changing daily for you when you first get your hawk, it is a good idea to ask questions to know what you may expect but you really need someone at hand, literally holding your hand for the first few weeks unless you can get some experience prior to getting your own bird.

[Barney]

To be honest if you need to ask these questions then you arnt ready for a bird mate, you should have spent a season hunting and helping feed, check weights and general husbandry for a mentor then get a bird:yawinkle:

[Paddy1]

To be honest if you need to ask these questions then you arnt ready for a bird mate, you should have spent a season hunting and helping feed, check weights and general husbandry for a mentor then get a bird:yawinkle:



iasked for a mentoe when first got on here several times

[Barney]

iasked for a mentoe when first got on here several times

That was only a few weeks ago, we have seen so many on here buy a bird when not ready and totally screw the bird up mate, im not saying you will but because you dont have a montor you are getting a bird regardless, most folks birds are down to moult so you should have waited till the new season started and waited till it was finished lwhilst helping out and learning, THEN think of getting a bird, sorry if i seem a bit blunt but im only thinking of the bird:yawinkle: graham

[Paddy1]

That was only a few weeks ago, we have seen so many on here buy a bird when not ready and totally screw the bird up mate, im not saying you will but because you dont have a montor you are getting a bird regardless, most folks birds are down to moult so you should have waited till the new season started and waited till it was finished lwhilst helping out and learning, THEN think of getting a bird, sorry if i seem a bit blunt but im only thinking of the bird:yawinkle: graham


yeh i understand that mate but if i thought for any reason i wasnt ready then i wouldnt be getting one

[Barney]

yeh i understand that mate but if i thought for any reason i wasnt ready then i wouldnt be getting one

well the question at the start off this thread makes me think you arnt ready, i think you really need a rethink mate..graham

[Paddy1]

well the question at the start off this thread makes me think you arnt ready, i think you really need a rethink mate..graham



with all due respect thats your opinion mate and were all intitled to them

[Paddy1]

well the question at the start off this thread makes me think you arnt ready, i think you really need a rethink mate..graham



then also instead of critism may some of your knowledge would help so can learn
thanks jay

[Matthew Patching]

You have asked alot of questions on here over the last few weeks all to do with getting a new bird, All the questions that you have asked have been obviously thought about, but could easily be found out from a book or by visiting a falconry centre and doing a course. I am presuming that you have a falconry centre near you as there are so many around these days, I would suggest looking for a mentor there, as noone has come forward on here, From what I can see you are definatly not ready to own a hawk, Or are you hoping to train it by posting threads on here everytime you run into trouble and just pray that people will respond.

[Barney]

You have asked alot of questions on here over the last few weeks all to do with getting a new bird, All the questions that you have asked have been obviously thought about, but could easily be found out from a book or by visiting a falconry centre and doing a course. I am presuming that you have a falconry centre near you as there are so many around these days, I would suggest looking for a mentor there, as noone has come forward on here, From what I can see you are definatly not ready to own a hawk, Or are you hoping to train it by posting threads on here everytime you run into trouble and just pray that people will respond.

my sentiments exactly:yawinkle:

[Paddy1]

You have asked alot of questions on here over the last few weeks all to do with getting a new bird, All the questions that you have asked have been obviously thought about, but could easily be found out from a book or by visiting a falconry centre and doing a course. I am presuming that you have a falconry centre near you as there are so many around these days, I would suggest looking for a mentor there, as noone has come forward on here, From what I can see you are definatly not ready to own a hawk, Or are you hoping to train it by posting threads on here everytime you run into trouble and just pray that people will respond.


like ive said before you can only learn so much from books and yes i have localkfalconry centres nearby and like i also said before good people to help out everyboby gotta start sometime

[Barney]

like ive said before you can only learn so much from books and yes i have localkfalconry centres nearby and like i also said before good people to help out everyboby gotta start sometime

but at what cost...graham

[Paddy1]

but at what cost...graham



i take it by that comment ou mean the life of the bop an like ive said before instead of critism which helps nobdy give some practical advice

[Sprout]

Sorry Paddy but I agree with Matt Eagle and Barney. You are asking the right questions and showing keeness, but as I said earlier, there is a big difference between asking and expecting answers over a forum with no practical experience so far to fall back on? You are 100% right in tat you will only learn properly with a bird of your own but you need at least some experience with someone else to at least get the gist of what MIGHT happen and how to pre-empt situations and how to react. If something new happens unexpected because you have no prior experince what do you do?? By the time you've aske don the forum or phoned a friend it will be too late,damage could already have been done. If you still want your bird this year I wish you all the luck in the world, but at least try asking at a falconry centre locally if you can help out/tag along - or at the very least go on an experience day so you get an insight into it.

[Takajo]

I think what set these folks off Pad, was the question about the yolk, as it's one of the more basic bits of falconry common sense, but this forum IS FOR BEGINNERS TOO, so I'm gonna dispense with the putting you down and help you:
The yolk, although high in some nutrients, is very unhealthy for your bird. It's sort of like injecting your bird with colesterol. Chick in general is not a good food for your bird (but it is delicious) in the end.When wanting to feed the bird without putting on pounds, leave some quail in a pot of water overnight (in the frigde in summer). Morning comes, the water'll be all red as alot of the fattening bits (but also many nutrients) have 'washed' away. Rabbit is much less fattening, but how often does a beginner know how to skin and gut rabbit?? DON'T use chicken from the supermarket. The bird will have diarrhea....Beef should be fatless but soft (shin is best)
BTW, the above lads are correct about going to get hands on first..

[Paddy1]

I think what set these folks off Pad, was the question about the yolk, as it's one of the more basic bits of falconry common sense, but this forum IS FOR BEGINNERS TOO, so I'm gonna dispense with the putting you down and help you:
The yolk, although high in some nutrients, is very unhealthy for your bird. It's sort of like injecting your bird with colesterol. Chick in general is not a good food for your bird (but it is delicious) in the end.When wanting to feed the bird without putting on pounds, leave some quail in a pot of water overnight (in the frigde in summer). Morning comes, the water'll be all red as alot of the fattening bits (but also many nutrients) have 'washed' away. Rabbit is much less fattening, but how often does a beginner know how to skin and gut rabbit?? DON'T use chicken from the supermarket. The bird will have diarrhea....Beef should be fatless but soft (shin is best)


at least some advice thaks alot and yes i do no how to skin and gut a rabbit

[Barney]

I think what set these folks off Pad, was the question about the yolk, as it's one of the more basic bits of falconry common sense, but this forum IS FOR BEGINNERS TOO, so I'm gonna dispense with the putting you down and help you:
The yolk, although high in some nutrients, is very unhealthy for your bird. It's sort of like injecting your bird with colesterol. Chick in general is not a good food for your bird (but it is delicious) in the end.When wanting to feed the bird without putting on pounds, leave some quail in a pot of water overnight (in the frigde in summer). Morning comes, the water'll be all red as alot of the fattening bits (but also many nutrients) have 'washed' away. Rabbit is much less fattening, but how often does a beginner know how to skin and gut rabbit?? DON'T use chicken from the supermarket. The bird will have diarrhea....Beef should be fatless but soft (shin is best)

you misinterprate me mate i wanst putting anyone down but simply stating that asking such basic questions is fine, but not asking them when you plan to buy a bird a few weks later..graham

[Paddy1]

[QUOTE=matt eagle]You have asked alot of questions on here over the last few weeks all to do with getting a new bird, All the questions that you have asked have been obviously thought about, but could easily be found out from a book or by visiting a falconry centre and doing a course.


so how come so many people ask questions on here then i thought that s what a forum is for ?
also its different asking questions on here than face to face with a person you hae never met

[Barney]

at least some advice thaks alot and yes i do no how to skin and gut a rabbit

yo are totally missing the point paddy by asking such questions do you not see that you arnt ready to have a bird, you should know these things well before you are thinking of a bird mate...

[Paddy1]

yo are totally missing the point paddy by asking such questions do you not see that you arnt ready to have a bird, you should know these things well before you are thinking of a bird mate...



yes but if you dont ask then how are you going to learn (apart from readng books )

[OutFlying]

paddy1,
Please learn the basics from a decent book and local practical knowledge before expecting this forum to provide all answers.

I've no doubt the members could provide all the answers but maybe they would also expect you to do the basics for yourself, not so long ago you said " I will learn most things before obtaing a hawk" but next thing a harrishawk is arriving very soon.
Not quite the same story.

Jim.

[Takajo]

Noone was putting Paddy down, but that is the way beginners will interpret what has been said. 'Well, sorry Paddy, I think your knowledge isn't up to par, so get thee to a falconry centre'. Maybe Pad knows more than you think. But, as I said, I AGREE with you lads. Please don't burn me at the stake too for the sakes of your all-knowing falconer egos.....
Good, light food that doesn't need washing:
rabbit
wiener rats (lab mice)
pheasant
Chix are actually high calorie as the pound goes

[Barney]

yes but if you dont ask then how are you going to learn (apart from readng books )

From spending time with someone who does know and can teach you mate, simple as that....join a falconry club and im sure someone will be able to help you out, im sure you think im picking on you but i can asure you imnot mate, im only trying to help :yawinkle:

[OutFlying]

Barney, I give you a green square but I not allowed too :oops:



Jim.

[Barney]

Barney, I give you a green square but I not allowed too :oops:



Jim.

lol youve got one more than me, not fair, same here mate but im allowed to give you one, ooooooeeeeeeeerrrrrrrr:yawinkle:

[Paddy1]

paddy1,
Please learn the basics from a decent book and local practical knowledge before expecting this forum to provide all answers.

Jim.


i dont expet any one to answer all my quesions even on here as for the books their has been so mant arguments about the right reading material its hard for the beginer o even know what to choose as for the food question i was just curios what everybody was feeding their bops intead of advive all igot was dont do this dont do that

[Paddy1]

From spending time with someone who does know and can teach you mate, simple as that....join a falconry club and im sure someone will be able to help you out, im sure you think im picking on you but i can asure you imnot mate, im only trying to help :yawinkle:


everybody goes on about joining a club but have you looked at most peeps profile (ihave )and how many of them are members of a club not alot

[Takajo]

Stop worrying about yer stupid green squares and give the man advice:-x

[OutFlying]

Paddy1,
I don't mind helping anyone (who least makes an effort and does the basics) but some appear to expect the forum to provide or are oblidge to provide all answers.

I suggested to you going to the Cheshire Hawking Club for more personnal advice but since your initial posting of willing to learn detailed knowledge before obtaining a hawk - now it seems a hawk is close to arrival, without the basics being acquired.

Jim.

[Barney]

hi all just wondering what would you lot class as a good diet for bops
ie when wanting to drop weight for traing purposes and gain weight ?

general feeding of doc, rat, quail, rabbit

to drop weight you need to know your own bird and what intake they require to keep them at the weigt they are at currently so you can reduce their food intake to drop their weight slowly not harming them, too mant people say if the bird aint responding drop their weight but this isnt always the answer:yawinkle: graham

[OutFlying]

Here's a quick answer without providing the facts behind it - YOU CAN NOT STARVE A HAWK INTO SUBMISSION.

Jim.

[Paddy1]

Paddy1,
I don't mind helping anyone (who least makes an effort and does the basics) but some appear to expect the forum to provide or are oblidge to provide all answers.

I suggested to you going to the Cheshire Hawking Club for more personnal advice but since your initial posting of willing to learn detailed knowledge before obtaining a hawk - now it seems a hawk is close to arrival, without the basics being acquired.

Jim.


yes i know you did and i certanly dont remember posting willing to learn detailed knowledge i was merely stating would learn and TRY and find a mentore like i said everybody gotta start somewhere without endangering any animal yeh people make mistake thats like but you larn from them and move on not making that same mistake again

[Paddy1]

Here's a quick answer without providing the facts behind it - YOU CAN NOT STARVE A HAWK INTO SUBMISSION.

Jim.


thats why i asked wat food to feed that will drop weight gradually and got aload of critisim

[Barney]

thats why i asked wat food to feed that will drop weight gradually and got aload of critisim

feed less food then the bird will drop in weight:yawinkle: if you weight the food and you know how much substains their weght then a little less will gradually drop weight, also depends how active the bird is and how hot or cold the weather is...graham

[Paddy1]

feed less food then the bird will drop in weight:yawinkle: if you weight the food and you know how much substains their weght then a little less will gradually drop weight, also depends how active the bird is and how hot or cold the weather is...graham


thatis also why i wanted to get a bop in the summer months when its not so cold due to the fact it will be my first bop and didnt want to risk the birds health in the winter whe weighing is critical for her to keep warm

[Barney]

thatis also why i wanted to get a bop in the summer months when its not so cold due to the fact it will be my first bop and didnt want to risk the birds health in the winter whe weighing is critical for her to keep warm

i will pm you my phone no. and email addy mate and you can give me a call and discuss some things if you aint sure, as i said earlier i am only trying to help i know everone needs to learn and start somewhere, i aint an expert by any means but if i can help then i will mate, i will send you them in the mornng bud...graham:yawinkle:

[Paddy1]

i will pm you my phone no. and email addy mate and you can give me a call and discuss some things if you aint sure, as i said earlier i am only trying to help i know everone needs to learn and start somewhere, i aint an expert by any means but if i can help then i will mate, i will send you them in the mornng bud...graham:yawinkle:


ok graham no worries will do thanks again:supz:

[Matthew Patching]

[QUOTE=matt eagle]You have asked alot of questions on here over the last few weeks all to do with getting a new bird, All the questions that you have asked have been obviously thought about, but could easily be found out from a book or by visiting a falconry centre and doing a course.


so how come so many people ask questions on here then i thought that s what a forum is for ?
also its different asking questions on here than face to face with a person you hae never met

My post wasnt telling you to stop asking. Just telling you to go and get some hands on experience, Volunteer at your local centre they wont turn you down. You say that you have no mentor one minute, then the next you have loads of peeps that you can get help off, so which is it?

[Paddy1]

[QUOTE=paddy1]

My post wasnt telling you to stop asking. Just telling you to go and get some hands on experience, Volunteer at your local centre they wont turn you down. You say that you have no mentor one minute, then the next you have loads of peeps that you can get help off, so which is it?


no i dont have a mentore but have verious people i can turn to

[Matthew Patching]

yes i know you did and i certanly dont remember posting willing to learn detailed knowledge i was merely stating would learn and TRY and find a mentore like i said everybody gotta start somewhere without endangering any animal yeh people make mistake thats like but you larn from them and move on not making that same mistake again

What happens if the mistake kills the bird!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matthew Patching]

[QUOTE=matt eagle]


no i dont have a mentore but have verious people i can turn to

Can they get to you or you to them if there is a problem?

[Paddy1]

[QUOTE=paddy1]

Can they get to you or you to them if there is a problem?


yes most live about ten min away if that

[Paddy1]

What happens if the mistake kills the bird!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


it wont come to that

[Matthew Patching]

it wont come to that


Tell you a story paddy.

I mentored a guy few years back, got himself a HH, got her hunting, one evening he rings me up and tells me that she flew into a tree whilst chasing a pheasant, but she seemed ok.

I told him to get her to the vets, she died on the way. It can be that quick.

I had a bird bite its tail bell in the night and get her beak caught in the bell keep, she died.

Had a lad and his dad, that had decided that they didnt want a mentor turn up on my doorstep, there bird (A HH) was a crumpled ball in the lads hand, He had starved her to death, without even realising it.

Had a guy turn up at a centre I was working at with a HH and she was so close to death that it took me 4 days to get her sitting up and taking food for herself, the problem was she had now got damaged kidneys and had to be put down.

The list can go on if you want.

It is not hard to make a mistake about food, I have a female HH here that has not got worms but has such a quick metabolism that it took me weeks to work her out.

I have been doing this for a long time and even now on rare occasions I get caught out, a bird might drop 1/4oz more than I think that it should every time that this happens I spend 3 or 4 days mentaly critisising myself, and thats on a birs that weighs 6lb.

Please for the sake of the bird go and do a course!!!

[Paddy1]

alot of valid pionts matt accidents happen yes i can agree with that inexpeirience kill birds yes but surly their is only so much a course can teach you aswell please believe me when i say i have my training scedule written down for a daily basis , a record of weight moring and night and even noon if need be i have read books spoke to people who bliev in me its hard to get across on here without soundg a prat all the people i have spoke to not only face to face but on the phone aswell have advised me to get a hawk otherwise i wouldnt be doing it ,i know it takes alot of work to look after a bop but i am commited 100 percent and wouldnt want to put any life at risk this is one of the reasons i joined the forum to meet people like yourself and others who do have extensive knowledge with birds
sorry have you read all my other threads on the short weeks i have been on hee i have learnt hell of a lot and i think asked some sensible queston the only reason i started this thread was to find out what people where feeding their bops as a newbie im not up to date with all the falconry jargen either so when people talk abut yokes dont know what they mean ok i have alot to learn but believe i can do this bird justice and people believe in me ,
like i said its hard to express knowledge on here

[Matthew Patching]

Paddy get hold pf a book called understanding the bird of prey by Nick Fox.
Definatly worth the read and read the thread called different opinions, I put a detailed post on HH training on there which would do you some good to read.

Hope it all geos well for you mate.

[Paddy1]

Paddy get hold pf a book called understanding the bird of prey by Nick Fox.
Definatly worth the read and read the thread called different opinions, I put a detailed post on HH training on there which would do you some good to read.

Hope it all geos well for you mate.


yeh will do and ay be one day i will end up hunting with you on a day out with a superb f hh

yeh read post as you where posting it (hope that makes sense ) very indeph instructions ordering a hood of griff s soon as i can get a proper measurement of her alot of helpful advice

[Kennelre]

Also..get the pamphlet...Raptor Nutrition by Neil Forbes and Colin Flint.
Also...make sure you have addressed the issue of emergency medical intervention in the field.

[Sprout]

Te difficulty with answering questons like diet on a forum is there are so many permutations, it is impossible to cover all angles in enough detail. For example, how/when to use tiring, how to hold food proerly in the glove so the bird doesn't learn bad habits/covered in muck - how to work out how much and when to feed, how to judge the condition of the keel (remember a bird may not fly to you because it is fat, but also if it is too low and not enough energy to fly - an important difference). Saying you want the bird in summer so it is easier to control weight due to the temperature, one thing to consider is the higher temperature also predisposes to sour crop, you need to learn how/what/when to feed to help avoid this too. Lots of permutations