So many breeders will birds get cheaper?

[Gozzhawk]

There seems now to be more people than ever involved in breeding birds . There also seems to be a lot of birds getting passed on after only a couple of seasons , will this mean that buying birds will become less expensive and if so will it then inturn lead to more 'back yard breeders' and more inexperienced people being sold birds ??

[PeregrinesUK]

Isnt this already the case?? Mike

[OutFlying]

Will the people who breed hawks / falcons without orders, continue to breed them when they cannot sell them at a good price ?

Jim.

[GoodFooter]

Isnt this already the case?? Mike
yes... certainly seem to be eg Harris Hawk. but common buzzards were once being bred left right & centre....demand dropped off & so did production.

[Peregrine1]

There seems now to be more people than ever involved in breeding birds . There also seems to be a lot of birds getting passed on after only a couple of seasons , will this mean that buying birds will become less expensive and if so will it then inturn lead to more 'back yard breeders' and more inexperienced people being sold birds ??

'back yard breeders' thats a phrase I hate when said in the contex you are trying to insinuate. I am a "Back Yard" breeder hobbyist. I pride myself on the Quality of the small number of falcons I breed. I vet all pontentail falconers who wish to have a falcon from me, as some of the forum can vouch. Some seemed to object but most take it well. Yes there is breeders backyard and commericail that no doubt take advantage breeding and rearing Birds on the Cheap. And sell them with anybody with the dosh. But I do not. BACK YARD BREEDER and proud of it.
Regards
Colin

[MattSpar]

'back yard breeders' thats a phrase I hate when said in the contex you are trying to insinuate. I am a "Back Yard" breeder hobbyist. I pride myself on the Quality of the small number of falcons I breed. I vet all pontentail falconers who wish to have a falcon from me, as some of the forum can vouch. Some seemed to object but most take it well. Yes there is breeders backyard and commericail that no doubt take advantage breeding and rearing Birds on the Cheap. And sell them with anybody with the dosh. But I do not. BACK YARD BREEDER and proud of it.
Regards
Colin

Well said that man. I also am a back yard breeder, to supply myself and my friends with hawks to fly.

[Barbary Boy]

i am really starting to get sick of this kind of post! if it wasnt for the breeders , backyard or otherwise, you ******s out there wouldnt have birds on your fists. so back off and be greatfull that youve got a bird at all?

[ACCIPITER-GENTILIS]

i am really starting to get sick of this kind of post! if it wasnt for the breeders , backyard or otherwise, you ******s out there wouldnt have birds on your fists. so back off and be greatfull that youve got a bird at all?

:supz: :supz: :supz: :supz:

[OutFlying]

Grateful ? are you giving them away :wink: Otherwise your in it for a profit - much like everyone else who works, nothing wrong with that BUT please don't think your providing a service for the love of it.

Breeders provide a service - but without buyers - your f*cked. Vicous circle really :lol:

Jim.

[MitchellBrad]

Grateful ? are you giving them away :wink: Otherwise your in it for a profit - much like everyone else who works, nothing wrong with that BUT please don't think your providing a service for the love of it.

Breeders provide a service - but without buyers - your f*cked. Vicous circle really :lol:

Jim.

Jeesh Jim. Must be Friday Night. Eh!!!

Brad Mitchell
Falconer, breeder and all around good guy

[OutFlying]

Brad,
If I didn't get paid to go to work - I wouldn't go.

Breeders are the same, it's a job with a high degree of uncertainty and I don't envy them but at the end of the day it's just a job.

Jim.

[Barbary Boy]

how much do you ******s out there think birds are worth? and how much do you think they cost to produce? yes i am in it for a profit and you should all be glad i am cos if we breeders werent . then there would be no birds available for you at any price so stop moaning and get your hands in your pockets?

[OutFlying]

:lol:

[MitchellBrad]

Brad,
If I didn't get paid to go to work - I wouldn't go.

Breeders are the same, it's a job with a high degree of uncertainty and I don't envy them but at the end of the day it's just a job.

Jim.

I don't know how to answer you Jim. Seriously. I consider myself a back yard breeder even though I've produced hundreds of peregrines and 40 or 50 hybrids. Maybe the difference, if there is one, I'm a gamehawker first and foremost. If these peregrines of mine weren't what I liked then I'd have something else.

Brad Mitchell

[OutFlying]

Hello Brad,
I think you've misunderstood my post - I ain't anti breeder whether full time or part time, my post was to highlight that they don't do it for charity and it is business driven - so maybe the customer doesn't need to be grateful.

Jim.

[MitchellBrad]

Hello Brad,
I think you've misunderstood my post - I ain't anti breeder whether full time or part time, my post was to highlight that they don't do it for charity and it is business driven - so maybe the customer doesn't need to be grateful.

Jim.

My friend, that adds a whole new light. At least to me. I don't do it for charity either but only to pay for my falconry. Thanks for clarifying your initial statement. I've given away a lot of great breeding falcons because I didn't like what they produced.

I'll eat a little crow and keep my mouth shut for a while.

Have you noticed in the "currently active Users Viewing This Thread" all sorts of names pop up when there is something controversial going on. Just an observation cause I do it too.

brad mitchell

[Barbary Boy]

i just get sick of newbies mostlly moaning about breeders, if there were no breeders they wouldnt have a bird? what do they expect free birds? for gods sake! birds cost money to produce never mind time and stress! most birds in the uk these days are acctually increadably cheap compared to the acctual cost of producing them? some of my birds make me a reasonable return others are barely worth producing! needless to say these are the popular ones as falconers all want stuff cheap, if money is an issue ! get out of falconry! because its the bargain basement falconers who are doing our sport in!

[Onyx25]

Quaility birds are very rarely cheap and nearly always sold quickly fact!

[GoodFooter]

I think that there are as many people who are genuinely concerned how cheap many birds are as there are people wanting cheaper birds!

[OutFlying]

amen

[TheZuffler]

i just get sick of newbies mostlly moaning about breeders, if there were no breeders they wouldnt have a bird? what do they expect free birds? for gods sake! birds cost money to produce never mind time and stress! most birds in the uk these days are acctually increadably cheap compared to the acctual cost of producing them? some of my birds make me a reasonable return others are barely worth producing! needless to say these are the popular ones as falconers all want stuff cheap, if money is an issue ! get out of falconry! because its the bargain basement falconers who are doing our sport in!

I totally agree (as a non breeder)!!! People should just think what breeders have done for falconry and wild population a like before having a go.

[OutFlying]

Who "has had a go" ?

[TheZuffler]

Who "has had a go" ?

No one, and I don't think they should. The thread is will birds get cheaper, I hope they don't! INMHO :wink:

[Barbary Boy]

unfortunatly birds will get cheaper! its all about supply and demand, certain birds are "fashionable" at the moment so they fetch a good price. when everyone has had a go at one they will want to move on to the next fad!its a sign of the times when male peregrines are available for less than the price of a harris hawk?

[Barbary Boy]

the real problem is there are just to many falconers in the uk today!

[Big JoeJoe]

the real problem is there are just to many falconers in the uk today!

well only sell to falconers you know if t hats how you feel:D

[Talon]

the real problem is there are just to many falconers in the uk today


falconers.o i thought you said foreigners.lol was going to agree:yawinkle:

[Nemesis]

unfortunatly birds will get cheaper! its all about supply and demand, certain birds are "fashionable" at the moment so they fetch a good price. when everyone has had a go at one they will want to move on to the next fad!its a sign of the times when male peregrines are available for less than the price of a harris hawk?

is this due to overbreading or people think that a harris is easy to look after or that most people dont have land sutable for a peregrin or a combination of all I went for a bird that suted the land I could fly on ext what was avalableat the time of looking then the cost .if the cost comes down it,s bad for the breader good for the buyer and in some cases bad for the bird what is needed is a sensable price for all and then we will all be happy all the best dave

[Barbary Boy]

yes... certainly seem to be eg Harris Hawk. but common buzzards were once being bred left right & centre....demand dropped off & so did production.
a lot of birds suddenly fell in numbers of production? it co-insided with dna evidence? funny that?

[Hacker]

I still feel that a lot of "back yard breeders" are in the game to try to provide themselves with the best posible hawks/falcons for the job in hand and obviously the surplus will become for sale, but the breeders have to cover their costs so why not sell at a premium, after all, if they asked you to work for ****** all at work, what would you say?

[Big JoeJoe]

I still feel that a lot of "back yard breeders" are in the game to try to provide themselves with the best posible hawks/falcons for the job in hand and obviously the surplus will become for sale, but the breeders have to cover their costs so why not sell at a premium, after all, if they asked you to work for ****** all at work, what would you say?

I would tell them to **** off Richard lol

[Hacker]

Exactley,
so many people moan about the cost of keeping one bird let alone three or more.
One to fly, two to breed but then they might not be compatible so you need more than three birds, plus they all need housing feding etc for 12 months not just the breeding season.
Then the young need feeding etc, oh it is obviously so cheap to rear bops!

[Gary F]

Well said that man. I also am a back yard breeder, to supply myself and my friends with hawks to fly.
i bought mine from a back yard dealer,was shown what he feeds them on,chick,rat,quail,sa37 suppliment,was at end of phone line with any probs,and also ringing to see hows it was going,now a good friend,
if any one in east midlands wants his number,i glady give it to you,,,

[HawkMan69UK]

i dont a have a back yard i have a falconry inspired garden with breeding pens:wink: :lol:

[GosFlyer]

a lot of so called back yard breeders, do so because breeding birds is as much a part of this hobby as flying them. there is nothing better than to fly a bird you have bred yourself. just like working a good dog off your own line. the only problem comes when a certain species is over produced,(sometimes off inferior stock or too closely related birds). there's no doubt that at the moment in the uk there are more BOP keepers than ever, this will not always be the case and some bird prices will crash further if they are still produced in big numbers. but if the export market dropped do you think that profesional breeders(thats those that do it for part or all of their income)will still breed as many birds, no they would only breed what they know they could sell, otherwise they would lose money and have expences higher than income. in common language go bust. i would rather breed six good birds than a shed full of ****, have some ppl not heard off single clutches. its HH bred all year round that fu-k up our hobby, the best thing all round would be to put all BOP back into registration the cost off registering one clutch will make them thing twice. have a nice day i'm off to kill something big and furry see ya tomoz.

[AndyYounger]

i just get sick of newbies mostlly moaning about breeders, if there were no breeders they wouldnt have a bird? what do they expect free birds? for gods sake! birds cost money to produce never mind time and stress! most birds in the uk these days are acctually increadably cheap compared to the acctual cost of producing them? some of my birds make me a reasonable return others are barely worth producing! needless to say these are the popular ones as falconers all want stuff cheap, if money is an issue ! get out of falconry! because its the bargain basement falconers who are doing our sport in!


I dont think most people realise the time and effort that goes into producing quality birds reared on a quality diet.especially some of the newbies! if you took all the man hours. the years before, planning what birds to get and from what lines, the gambles involved and the disasters along the way.
take barbary falcons for example after getting them and shelling out the best part of 2K, i will have to wait 3 yars just to be in with a chance of producing. then there is the risks of injury, incompatabilityand infertility. the list is huge. the husbandry, observation(especially in goses) and patience required are an unbilievable ammount of work. i think the food bill alone would make most people s**t themselves. in terms of profit. a job on minimum wage would pay more per hour.
anybody puting a breeding project together with good quality bird deserves a reasonable return. its the ones who dont care about breeding relatives and quality that shoud be stamped out. they produce inferior birds at cheap prices and dont bother who gets them as long as they come up with the money.

tell me if i am wrong. thats wright you cant!
regards
andy

[GoodFooter]

a lot of birds suddenly fell in numbers of production? it co-insided with dna evidence? funny that?
gos hawk production has more than recovered.....the drop also coinsided with the mass production of harrises..... and RT production dropped not many of them in the wild here to take. No it is simply supply and demand in my mind

[Gozzhawk]

I fully understand how close to the profit margin some folks operate to supply good quality falcons . registered breeders maybe is the way to go for ALL species , I KNOW most of you are resposible that is why you care enough to respond to this thread .
There are also those out there who are trying for 4 clutches , the folk (and i have seen it) who are breeding in squalid conditions , like all walks of life there are peaks and troughs!
We already know that self regulation is not working for the sport so what is to be done for breeding ??
Also will i get a falcon Cheaper ..........?????????????

[GoodFooter]

gos hawk production has more than recovered.....the drop also coinsided with the mass production of harrises..... and RT production dropped not many of them in the wild here to take. No it is simply supply and demand in my mind
the supply of Gosses has been considerably lower than HH the demand is high especially for quality birds... price is high. ( well reasonable in my mind) £200 per year for the highest prices female finish if you fly her for 10 yrs!!! seems very cheap to me!
There are a few birds which the price seems to exceed their potential eg african hawk eagle , bonellis eagle possibly albidus gos..... prices £5000 upward because of rarity....... again supply and demand dictates the price. These are the birds I would like to see a committed enthusiast breeding. Each having a good potential market ( probably world market) and forefilling a role in british falconry which is far from saturated.

[Matthew Patching]

Anyone who slags off hobby breeders should be shot at birth IMHO, All my birds come from selected hobby breeders (much nicer term than Backyard). except the eagle who came from my boss.

I dont buy from large breeding establishments due to the way that most of them operate.

Prices will come down, some will go up, You used to be able to pick up a young common for 50-70 quid, I doubt you could do it now, kestrels used to go for 35-45 quid, I saw some advertised the other day for 100. good for them.

If everyone wasnt trying to undercut everyone else because we as a country is over producing a particular species then prices wouldnt fall.

When I first started in falconry a FHH would set you back the best part of 2 grand, and 5 years ago you could pick them up for £250, what a change a dozen years can make.

Would we have so many BOP keepers that claim to be falconers if you still had to shell out 2 grand for a HH, would we have so many spoilt kids 'flying' HH if there parents had to shell out 2000. The answer is NO!, so it is undercutting that is the real problem, If everyone agreed on the prices and stuck to them we would soon see a change in the trend. but that will never happen.

I have bred a fair number of birds over the years, but not being commercialy minded in this respect I have always bred for quality rather than quality, personaly I would rather give one of my youngsters away than sell for a profit.

I am lucky in this respect I have a good job that means that I am not counting my pulled eggs before they hatch.

In the past I have pulled HH eggs from a second clutch and replaced them with pot eggs and binned the whole clutch. some of you will no doubt find this disgusting, but Im not in this sport to prostitute my birds for anyone.

There are enough breeders on here (hobby & commercial alike) surely you could all come to some sort of agreement on how to price your birds, and a minimum husbandry standard, surely this is the way forward.

Personaly I would not supply a HH to a novice, Even if he asked the right questions and showed aptitude for the sport, this is not that I dislike novices but because I deeply care for my birds, and would require the novice to come out with me learning for a season. This year I put a 2nd season fHH in with my 10th season male so that they will bond for next year, I will be putting them in earlier next year as I would like a female to fly with my male, and the females owner would like a male, any young that are left will be handed to freinds that I know can do them justice and wont be selling them on after 2 seasons.