Forced/Induced Moult

[Harrisii]

has anyone got any good ideas to share which you reckon speeds up the moult??

i use suppliments and a good quality diet. same as most i guess.
ive been told that fresh warm carcases are the best and will speed things up no end. i read recently that those who breed their own rats for example, their birds tend to moult out quicker. ie: warm carcases etc.

i dont go shooting anymore so dont have a supply of warm carcasses to feed.
all their food is either bulk bought or from someone who shoots.

whats your ideas on speeding things up cos global warming aint bringing the autumn any quicker. and i am so desperate to get out hawking.

its just a general question for all to share their experiences and thoughts.
i aint too far away and hope to be out again come august rather than september.

[Fires59]

interesting question that harrisii, be great if there was a qucihker way have heard of people using lights on early on to start the moult earlier by increasing the hours of daylight which is said to trigger the moult. But would have thought the moult has to take a certain amount of time due to thelenrth of time a bird needs to grow the feathers. It would be great if someone can come up with a quicker way as cant wait to get out myself.:)

[Intek Hosting]

Only suggestion I can make is try using Arcadia full spectrum lamps early on when the days are still very short. Helps start the moult that bit sooner.

I use them in the winter with my parrots and, by increasing the hours of light I find the birds moult out over the winter and are ready for the breeding season.
Having said that I cant see them doing one little bit of good this time of year.

My Mentor breeds rats and feeds freshly killed (skull crushed) rats to his birds and the difference in chick growth is impressive. Certainly gets the youngsters off to the best possible start.

[Parabuteo.de]

Hi there,

my favourite for speeding up the molt is feeding hamsters.
The male gold hamsters are ideal for this.
My MHH is nearly ready now. Only two tail feathers need to grow
1-1,5 cm then he has completed his moult.

Some freinds of mine tried the same and they had nearly the same
effect!

All the best,

Claas :)

[IAmTheWeasel]

I have heard of several methods...Some proven and some not.....I have tried the lights and it did seem to speed the moult up a bit. I have a friend in Cali that gives his bird a small amount of honey with the birds food. He said this has worked wonders with his falcons to speed up the moult.
Last but not least that I know of is Thyroid. I have heard that giving a bird thyroid in the proper amounts can speed up the moult dramaticly..

[Parabuteo.de]

I have heard of several methods...Some proven and some not.....I have tried the lights and it did seem to speed the moult up a bit. I have a friend in Cali that gives his bird a small amount of honey with the birds food. He said this has worked wonders with his falcons to speed up the moult.
Last but not least that I know of is Thyroid. I have heard that giving a bird thyroid in the proper amounts can speed up the moult dramaticly..
There seems to be a good ammount of Thyroid in the hamsters, this is what
a bop specialised vet said!

Claas :o))

[Simon]

I heared that feeding your bird cod liver oil and vitamin c,
Ive tryed the cod liver, while its been a little cold her feathers are growing as quick as when it has been warm.

Simon

[Onyx25]

I have heard of several methods...Some proven and some not.....I have tried the lights and it did seem to speed the moult up a bit. I have a friend in Cali that gives his bird a small amount of honey with the birds food. He said this has worked wonders with his falcons to speed up the moult.
Last but not least that I know of is Thyroid. I have heard that giving a bird thyroid in the proper amounts can speed up the moult dramaticly..
I know people that swear by honey for growth and condition but you MUST use natural solid honey with no additives (ie tescos ***** ) apparently its the glucose??

[Hawk74]

i just feed my female harris what ever she has caught the season previously with the odd quail and rat and she will be ready to be pulled out the aviary in 2 weeks

[Miguel]

Thyroid works great, but you have to br REALLY careful using it! It can cause a bird to loose a lot of feathers, in a short period of time, with all the problem that that kind of situation brings. I use it has a last resort only (rehab birds, heavily damaged birds)...

[Turumti]

My regimen for a speedy moult is to feed my birds a varied diet of pigeons, desert rats, sparrows, quails and doves. The fatter the food birds are, the better do my birds moult out.

[TinyLoc UK]

I have done some experiments with different lights and diet over the years.

I have found that the following works well.

I installed a single four foot weatherproof anti-corrosive fluorescent light fitting with a 36W colour 840 lamp in an
10' X 8' X 8' mews the falcon was free lofted.

I started leaving the light on using a timer for eight hours a day two weeks after the bird was put away for the moult normally around the end of Feb.
I increased this up to 16 hours a day over a couple of weeks and maintained this level of lighting until the days lengthened sufficiently for the light to be switched off.

I fed a varied good quality diet pigeon rat mice quail chick ect.

I found that the falcon had always completed the moult by the 2nd week of July ready for the 12th August

Nick

[HawkEagle]

Wow I did not know that feeding of hamster can speed up moult. I have fed hamster in the past but I gave up cause it was too fatty and tend to put my bird out of condition pretty quickly. The meat is really rich though. I'll try it once again for the moult.

[tawoodee]

has anyone got any good ideas to share which you reckon speeds up the moult??

i use suppliments and a good quality diet. same as most i guess.
ive been told that fresh warm carcases are the best and will speed things up no end. i read recently that those who breed their own rats for example, their birds tend to moult out quicker. ie: warm carcases etc.

i dont go shooting anymore so dont have a supply of warm carcasses to feed.
all their food is either bulk bought or from someone who shoots.

whats your ideas on speeding things up cos global warming aint bringing the autumn any quicker. and i am so desperate to get out hawking.

its just a general question for all to share their experiences and thoughts.
i aint too far away and hope to be out again come august rather than september.

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy the big rush!!!!

It normally takes your average raptor about six months to complete a moult. The number of daylight hours is important along with a good diet and if you have to add things then try Avimix as a good all round supplement. Don't use SA37 because it isn't for birds. Speeding up the moult can be achieved byupping the birds glucose intake in trhe form of honey, or crushed barley sugar (it does work!) carefully chopped into the days meal. You can also use lights and some folks keep them on virtually all of the time especially if the hawk has limited access to natural daylight ie in a mews and not a weathering or moulting chamber. I've had Red-tailed hawks that have moulted very nicely on a bow and just at the point of picking up for reclaiming have dropped their new deck feathers. Now that is frustrating.

Larger birds, ie members of the aquila family can take several years to complete what we would consider to be a full or complete moult. I'm a great believer in letting mother nature do her stuff without interfeering, and don't forget, a wild hawk will drop feathers in pairs, in a relatively strict sequence that enables them to change their old for new without compromising their hunting and flying abilities. Buy a copy of Emma Fords excellent book 'Falconry' (Art and practice), in which with the aid of very good diagrams she explains the moult and it's approx. sequence very neatly.

I would only consider trying to push a hawk through a fast moult if it was in very very poor feather condition, and I consider a young hawks first moult to be the definitive one that sets it up for life if you the falconer/austringer lokks after him or her in the fashion that he or she deserves to be looked after in captivity, ie without any compromise in standards.

Finally why do you feel it is necessary to hunt a bird through the summer months? I flew a female Common buzzrard for seven consecutive years until her untimely death, and after she had completed her first moult, but she wasn't really 'hunted' during the summer. Let's face it there are one or two factors against you. Lot's of leaves on trees if you fly in wooded countryside, and on hedges alongside fields. You stand a greater chance of losing track of where your hawk is or what it is up too if it is being hunted. But the thing that really puts me off is the prey. Think about it for a moment, it's breeding time for most birds and animals so you stand a greater chance of catching a young, inexperienced and possibly half grown (ie rabbit or hare) that isn't really going to know what hit it. Let it grow up and see a bit of the world first and then chase it in the winter with your hawk. It will be more rewarding for you and bird and therefore more of a challenge. I have seen hawks refuse to fly full grown prey in favour of smaller and possibly easier things which I personally don't consider does our sport/art any favours.

If you are having real withdrawal symptoms during the summer months then why not take up a hobby, buy a motorbike or make a pest of yourself at your nearest bird of prey centre so that with their summer flying display birds (providing you are competent enough) you can slake your thirst, feed your hunger or feed your passion. Got the idea? Of course you may have to clean aviaries and do menial things like make tea but it is worth it and a good volunteer is worth his or her weight in gold! Don't however become what a friend calls a 'parachute volunteer' ie somebody who drops in when all the early graft is done (normally just before the days first demo) and then flies off just after the days last demo (just before the end of days graft starts), very clever but generally you won't last v.long!

Ta Ta.

[Scooter]

i was once told 2 use sheeps thyroyd (dont no where it keeps it but i have never used one may be a old wife,s tail) put them down feed them well and sit back all good things come to he/she who waits

[Jiff]

the two most things exagerated about on the forum is size and speed,100% male input,so no change in falconry from the real world L.O.L i know the moult at this time of year is the most interesting thing going on, and at times makes for some interesting reading, there is no real hurry unless you want to spend a couple of months walking the fields with you're bird on the fist,it's rare for game to show itself when there's danger at this time of year fur and feather will stick to cover like glue, however, the only gauranteed way of speeding the moult is messing with the daylight hours, trick the bird into thinking spring is here when it aint, but be warned, when i raced pigeons we used to darken the young hens off,as the birds fledge they're put into a section of the loft,once settled the loft is darkened off at 4.30ish pm and given light at 9.30ish am the birds think winters approaching(which it aint)they cast there juvenile plumage and don theire adult plumage this is aided with suppliments, ths end result, when the you'ng bird racing starts our birds flew with adult plumage, why only the hens? because the second year theire moult is usualy f***ed up, the cock birds fly much better than hens when older so thats why they're allowed to moult naturaly. i.m.h.o leave them to moult naturaly.

[Moses]

has anyone got any good ideas to share which you reckon speeds up the moult??

i use suppliments and a good quality diet. same as most i guess.
ive been told that fresh warm carcases are the best and will speed things up no end. i read recently that those who breed their own rats for example, their birds tend to moult out quicker. ie: warm carcases etc.

i dont go shooting anymore so dont have a supply of warm carcasses to feed.
all their food is either bulk bought or from someone who shoots.

whats your ideas on speeding things up cos global warming aint bringing the autumn any quicker. and i am so desperate to get out hawking.

its just a general question for all to share their experiences and thoughts.
i aint too far away and hope to be out again come august rather than september.


u can always microwave them :D, will keep em warm colin lol

[Tyto]

Hi ,I breed canaries for showing and it is important to get the birds through a clean fast moult so that they are in the best possible condition.I use broard spectrum flouresent lights in the bird room with timers and when my last chick is weaned from the perents the lights are then dropped one hour every week until the moult is finished ,so I think that lighting is the key with all birds as the lighting mimics the seasons thus darker nights comming in will make the birds think that winter is on the way and they must get the new plumage quickly after breeding .A good probiotic also helps in the absorbsion of any newtrients in the food and helps fight desise.

[Kentish Falconry]

I have tried many ways of speeding up the moult most do nothing to help. The only things that do seem to help and this falls into line with what others are saying is Honey. I do not use Honey it's self but I use capsuals from Health Food Shops of Royal Jelly I give this for 5 Days on 5 Days off not only does this increase the rate of moult but it gives a nice shine to the new feathers and I find the feathers are less likely to break as they seem more pliable. This method in conjunction with good lighting (Arcadia full spectrum, or Bird Lights) increasing the ammount of daylight hours seems to work well.
I do not really have to worry too much about the moult these days as I can pick up a fresh bird each year that I want to fly but we are not all in that possition
Terry

[Matthew Patching]

my mhh moults out in 6 weeks flat, all i do is continue flying until the beginning of july, then wack his weight up, and he geos into over-drive, dropping nearly all his flight feathers in a fortnight, you have to be carefull when handling though because of all the feathers that are in blood.

I tried it with the eagle this year as well and he nearly complete moulted his tail, and primaries, sometimes droping 2 or 3 primaries in 24 hours, he looks realy nice at the moment, as he hasnt had a proper moult in 3 years.

Just somthing for you all to chew over.

[Harrisii]

my mhh moults out in 6 weeks flat, all i do is continue flying until the beginning of july, then wack his weight up, and he geos into over-drive, dropping nearly all his flight feathers in a fortnight, you have to be carefull when handling though because of all the feathers that are in blood.

Just somthing for you all to chew over.

a six week moult does sound great Mat, but ive never heard this method being promoted before.
aint quite sure how this would sit.

[Harrisii]

Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy the big rush!!!!


(1)
Larger birds, ie members of the aquila family can take several years to complete what we would consider to be a full or complete moult. I'm a great believer in letting mother nature do her stuff without interfeering, and don't forget, a wild hawk will drop feathers in pairs, in a relatively strict sequence that enables them to change their old for new without compromising their hunting and flying abilities. Buy a copy of Emma Fords excellent book 'Falconry' (Art and practice), in which with the aid of very good diagrams she explains the moult and it's approx. sequence very neatly.
(2)
I would only consider trying to push a hawk through a fast moult if it was in very very poor feather condition, and I consider a young hawks first moult to be the definitive one that sets it up for life if you the falconer/austringer lokks after him or her in the fashion that he or she deserves to be looked after in captivity, ie without any compromise in standards.
(3)
Finally why do you feel it is necessary to hunt a bird through the summer months? I flew a female Common buzzrard for seven consecutive years until her untimely death, and after she had completed her first moult, but she wasn't really 'hunted' during the summer. Let's face it there are one or two factors against you. Lot's of leaves on trees if you fly in wooded countryside, and on hedges alongside fields. You stand a greater chance of losing track of where your hawk is or what it is up too if it is being hunted. But the thing that really puts me off is the prey. Think about it for a moment, it's breeding time for most birds and animals so you stand a greater chance of catching a young, inexperienced and possibly half grown (ie rabbit or hare) that isn't really going to know what hit it. Let it grow up and see a bit of the world first and then chase it in the winter with your hawk. It will be more rewarding for you and bird and therefore more of a challenge. I have seen hawks refuse to fly full grown prey in favour of smaller and possibly easier things which I personally don't consider does our sport/art any favours.
(4)
If you are having real withdrawal symptoms during the summer months then why not take up a hobby, buy a motorbike or make a pest of yourself at your nearest bird of prey centre so that with their summer flying display birds (providing you are competent enough) you can slake your thirst, feed your hunger or feed your passion. Got the idea? Of course you may have to clean aviaries and do menial things like make tea but it is worth it and a good volunteer is worth his or her weight in gold! Don't however become what a friend calls a 'parachute volunteer' ie somebody who drops in when all the early graft is done (normally just before the days first demo) and then flies off just after the days last demo (just before the end of days graft starts), very clever but generally you won't last v.long!

Ta Ta.

firstly i would like to welcome your input mate, a lot of it i really appreciate and agree with. i didnt see this post until now or would have responded sooner.

(1)
firstly i agree with your "natures course" statement. anyone who has read my posts on "austringers ferrets" will adhere to that, lol.
the thread was merely asking of any advise or input as to how to speed it up ie: help things along sweetly. not adversly effect the course of nature.
the emma ford book i've read and refer to an occasions. but i have to disagree that birds moult in sequence or the same sequence which she refers to in her book as ive never had a hawk which moulted out the way or in the sequence she said it would.

(2)
i believe my birds are well looked after and well cherished. i would never compimise on the wellbeing of my birds. (not assuming you are saying so).

(3)
ive never advocated the flying of BOP through the moult period and always advised against. for the very same reasons you mention. i can only assume this as a general statement and not directed at me, although the quote of my original thread opener leads me to believe that its my post you are replying to. however, as mentioned, i agree with your sentiments.

(4)
lol, ive many other hobbies which ive neglected for too long. the biggest and more important being my young family. the moult is a great time for being with them so aint all bad.
i used to be an avid piker and miss it but cannot bear being out without a bird. would seem like something is misssing.
as for volunteering at a centre? not for me i am affraid.
ive enough on my plate with my career and family not to mention my birds and animals without cleaning some other persons mews.
i didnt go and do an honours in animal biology just to make some plamph a cup of tea whilst i eves drop on a far flung falconry fairytale.
i may come accross as a teenager with hopes of a bird some day who would like to fritter the hours away wondering how its done at a centre but even then when i did, i didnt. a lackie i aint.
so many people here advise volunteering at a centre for experience.
i wouldnt do it. i aint above it or snobbish in any way but it aint me.

thanks for your input mate, i appreciate it. this aint a dig just a reply.
anyway, its only now that i am back out again after a very long moult.
so much for August early september?? lol.

best wishes, H.

[Venividevenatio]

I have a male Perigrine/Gyr. He is a a lovely chap, if a little short of courage. He came to me second hand, after he started to have 'away from home weekends'! I took him as he started his first moult. His juvenile tail feathers were as normal, but the new feathers were not. Nos 1 to 4 and 8 to 12 were twisted, and appeared brittle. He bit through these, and then the remaining feathers. He was hunted that season, but with the following moult, his tail was just as bad. The plan was to imp his juvenile set in, but the feathers had frayed down to the follicle, so there was nothing to imp to. As a result he was not hunted last season.
The same has happened this last moult, although he still has the central feathers.

I have had a similar problem with another Gyr hybrid, ( feathers 1 and 12) but he grew out of it, and went on to grow perfect feathers. I think the problem may be associated with the Gyr hybridisation?

With the Perigrine/Gyr, I attempted to prevent the feather biting. I decided to try moulting out on the block, changing the surface types frequently through the day, keeping him entertained as much as possible, and free loft at night. This decision that was not taken lightly, as I did not like the idea of moulting out on the block.
As soon as his decks started to appear, I had him out of the aviary, and manned him down to about 5 ozs above hunting weight. The moult stopped. I persisted through till late August, but it did not restart, so I put him back in the aviary, where it all kicked in again.
He is now biting through the twisted feathers as above.
His diet is about what most people would do during the moult, quality food every 3rd day, stripped chicks in-between, and mineral/vitamin suppliments and cod-liver oil.

My thoughts now are, that if I could get him to drop his feathers in a hurry, I might have a chance of keeping his mind occupied and prevent the feather biting, and so get him hunting again. Then perhaps go for a second moult later in the year.
As it stands at the moment, he is going to be unflown for 2 years, and I would rather avoid that.

What I would like to know is, has anybody tried a forced moult as per the brief guide in Understanding Birds of Prey ((Dr. Nick Fox) ? Has anybody followed the advice from Tumeruti on the forum re stimulating the moult using clover honey? Any guidance on amounts and frequency of honey, and length of artificial light etc would be appreciated. It would be posible to put artificial lighting in his aviary.

Thanks in advance.

[BrianM]

i tried it last year with my gos and harris after moving house ruined my season ,,, put them down just after xmas with dimmers and full spectrum lights . ,,, didnt make a blind bit of difference

[OutFlying]

Pete Smith has a regime for an accelerated moult under lights,

Jim.

[Tim Laycock]

No doubt it will be in the book.

[Matthew Patching]

We used artists daylight bulbs to increase daylight hours for demo falcons that needed moulting (or to complete there moult) durin the winter months,

Lights would be on 18 hours per day, on a timer. this didnt make them drop any faster, but did extend the amount of time that they continued to moult for during the dark winter months.

Just out of interest we flew our 2 female eagles nearly all summer here, and they moulted as if they were on free food. We got nearly a complete tail off of one of them (this deosnt happen that often with eagles).

So maybe you could try gettin her out and flying her to see if she will moult while flying? just a thought.

All the best mate.

Matt.

[Mark Collins]

Hi , once moulted a tiercel prairie, in a imprint chamber , using 2 normal flurecent tubes in the roof of the pen , the reason for this is he was slow to moult in his first year ,so tried it so i could get him out real early, got some good collared dove sites , mainly around farm buldings and the arrangement for permission was to fly these as much as possible, he was put in at the end of january , and was almost finished by mid,may when i got him out , this is parent reared as well , the lights were on 20 hours a day, cheers , mark.

[TinyLoc UK]

I have done some experiments with different lights and diet over the years.

I have found that the following works well.

I installed a single four foot weatherproof anti-corrosive fluorescent light fitting with a 36W colour 840 lamp in an
10' X 8' X 8' mews the falcon was free lofted.

I started leaving the light on using a timer for eight hours a day two weeks after the bird was put away for the moult normally around the end of Feb.
I increased this up to 16 hours a day over a couple of weeks and maintained this level of lighting until the days lengthened sufficiently for the light to be switched off.

I fed a varied good quality diet pigeon rat mice quail chick ect.

I found that the falcon had always completed the moult by the 2nd week of July ready for the 12th August

Nick

[GregMik]

Here is a thread on the use of Thyriod. The pics disapeared in the hacking but the text is still good.


http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16362


Greg

[GregMik]

Merged two threads together as requested......

Gregmik