jesses!!!(doing my head in)

[Milo]

my male h/h cant stop picking/pulling at his jesses when hes in his mews everytime i go in there the jesses are on the floor any ideas on how i can stop him (if any)thanks lads.:rolleyes:

[OutFlying]

use permanent flying jesses

[Milo]

could you tell me whats the differance as i am quite new to this game

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Permanent flying jesses are attached to the eyelet like a bewit.


FHF

[Harris]

I had exactly the same trouble with my CB, they would stay on for about 3 mins :lol: But I beat him in the end with a set of permenant flying jesses using the method in the pic (sorry its a bit blurred) just feed it through the eyelet instead of around the leg.

HTH

Should add that you won't need the slit in them!!

[MickeyDredd]

Should add that you won't need the slit in them!!

if he's free-lofted for the moult it might actually be advantageous to have the slits, then if you need to bow him out for cleaning etc you can quickly pop the swivel and leash on - effectively a set of permanent mews jesses.

[Milo]

thanks everyone who replied some sound advice thats what this forum is all about:supz: :supz: :supz:

[buzzbee]

All the hunting and several flying birds at are centre have permanant hunting jess. Little lifesavers ;)

[OutFlying]

I wouldn't use them on a hunting hawk.

[AngelJakki]

I wouldn't use them on a hunting hawk.
Can I just ask why you wouldn't use permanent flying jesses on a hunting hawk as we use them all season.

[OutFlying]

Four reasons why I wouldn't use them -

1) I prefer the flying jesses to be hard and non flexible, to prevent tangling with branches etc - this isn't possible if the hawk takes a bath etc. I remove the jesses and placed them on a radiator to make them as stiff as possible.

2) I don't like the look of 4 jesses on a hawk at once whilst at weathering, looks awful.

3) Don't like the big hole left in the eyelet whilst flying with this type of arrangement.

4) And if you lose the hawk in the field, then a greater risk of tangling with a permanent set of jesses - as the hawk can't remove them ever.


Some may like them, but to me it only takes a few seconds to switch from mews to flying and can't see any advantage to using them only disadvantages.


Jim.

[AngelJakki]

thank you for your reply and fair enough will mull it over

[GoodFooter]

normal aylmeri ....jesses as normal....very tight washer ( leather circle with hole in middle ) put on as normal with washer last ...pull jesses through with pliers. Once your hawk has got out of the pulling jess out habit you can put a looser washer on making life easier when you want to swap flying & mews jesses.

[OutFlying]

top tip :supz:

[buzzbee]

I wouldn't use them on a hunting hawk.

When there called back to the fist or need to be picked up of a kill they come in pretty handy. I wouldnt dream of hunting with the normal jesses on.

[OutFlying]

Flying jesses provide this, NO NEED for PERMANENT ones though, i.e ones attached 24/7

Jim.

[buzzbee]

Well i disagree. Just what we both prefer is different big deal :yawinkle:

[OutFlying]

State a valid reason for the need for a permanent flying jess - i'm always willing to learn.

Jim.

[OutFlying]

I ain't flying with mews jesses, using removable flying jesses.

[buzzbee]

Because its better than changing them round, i think the hawk looks better with them on and because i want to. :yawinkle: :D

[OutFlying]

well thought out mature reply :oops:

[Pitbull]

whilst me and my bird are getting too know and understand each other i have permenant flyers on through a seperate hole in the anklet which are 4mm thick
i prefer these rather than having a button through the eyelet

[buzzbee]

well thought out mature reply :oops:

Its my reasons. Personaly its better than putting i want them on my hawk to show them of to people. Anyway differance of opinion again.:D

[Harris]

To be fair the reason I use the permenant Flying Jesses I described above, is that Oak is a display bird, and I use a toggle leash when on the fist. For a hunting bird I would not use them, instead I prefere flying jesses, which block the hole in the anklet and if the bird gets tangled if lost, it at least has half a chance of getting free.

[Pitbull]

what i cant understand about the bird having a chance if tangle, is if 1 end has a button and 1 end is tangled where is the chance. how wide are your flyers and how wide are mews mews

[Kevin Massey]

*edited to get back on track*

[GregMik]

This is still confusing to me. Please post a pic of what you are all talking about.

Greg

[OutFlying]

what i cant understand about the bird having a chance if tangle, is if 1 end has a button and 1 end is tangled where is the chance. how wide are your flyers and how wide are mews mews

These type of flying jesses (permanent) are usually narrower and a lot more flimsy than normal stiff flying jesses, the risk of entanglement is increased due to their lack of stiffness and ability to wrap around an object like a "whip". Fences and small branches especially.

Hope this helps,

Jim.

[FlameHairedFalconer]

These type of flying jesses (permanent) are usually narrower and a lot more flimsy than normal stiff flying jesses, the risk of entanglement is increased due to their lack of stiffness and ability to wrap around an object like a "whip". Fences and small branches especially.

Hope this helps,

Jim.

I dont ever grease my permanent flying jesses, they go on stiff and remain so, thus no problems with them 'whipping' around objects.

FHF

[GoodFooter]

I dont ever grease my permanent flying jesses, they go on stiff and remain so, thus no problems with them 'whipping' around objects.

FHF
wouldnt they go soft & floppy when your bird bathes??? or when it lands in damp cover/grass?

[Yarak1]

I have used permanent flying straps for years in all sorts of different environments and can honestly say I have never had a problem even when the hawk crashes into dense cover.........Each person will experiment and use what they think works best for their bird.......

[GoodFooter]

I have used permanent flying straps for years in all sorts of different environments and can honestly say I have never had a problem even when the hawk crashes into dense cover.........Each person will experiment and use what they think works best for their bird.......
your right in that you may want to use what works for you.....but if only on in a hundred people had problems then I for one wouldnt want to risk my bird.
That is where this forum really help....a wise man learns not only from his own experience but from the experience of other wise men!

[FlameHairedFalconer]

wouldnt they go soft & floppy when your bird bathes??? or when it lands in damp cover/grass?

I wouldnt fly my hawks just after bathing - because they are....wet! By the time the bird is dry, so are the jesses. If anything they are stiffer because they have been wet.

or when it lands in damp cover/grass?

You could say the same about removable flying jesses, unless you go out with a pocketful and replace them everytime the hawk lands on the ground/in cover...Equally if the jesses get that wet after going into cover/grass, the hawk will be too, flying ability will be impaired and potentially the day is over.

FHF

[Yarak1]

your right in that you may want to use what works for you.....but if only on in a hundred people had problems then I for one wouldnt want to risk my bird.
That is where this forum really help....a wise man learns not only from his own experience but from the experience of other wise men!

But nothing is foolproof is it?...............The old saying " if it aint broken don't fix it " springs to mind...........

Everything in daily life has some risk to it........you can't fly a bird risk free for ever.........not just because of what jesses or straps you use but flying a bird generally has it's own risks............

Like I say everybody will use what works for their bird.....one day it might not work and then they will look for another alternative........thats how new things are discovered by past incidents and not wanting the same thing to happen again.

[GoodFooter]

I wouldnt fly my hawks just after bathing - because they are....wet! By the time the bird is dry, so are the jesses. If anything they are stiffer because they have been wet.



You could say the same about removable flying jesses, unless you go out with a pocketful and replace them everytime the hawk lands on the ground/in cover...Equally if the jesses get that wet after going into cover/grass, the hawk will be too, flying ability will be impaired and potentially the day is over.

FHF
when my hawks land on wet grass their feet get wet and maybe the tip of the tail.....the day is far from over!!!! & feathers dry far faster than leather.
If the jesses are stiff then fine I dont like flying birds with floppy things protruding from their body....for the same reason I tail mount telemetry with fairly short antenae.
I admit to not knowing anyone have a bird killed through permenant flying jesses but personally know a falconer who had one killed at a display through exactly the same principle via telemetry antenae.For that reason I chose not to attach floppy,thin things to my birds. Stiff thin jesses would be OK one system was described on here with plastic wire/cable jesses which would be pretty unlikely to catch.
I still chose not to use them as I believe there are better alternatives and options

[GoodFooter]

But nothing is foolproof is it?...............The old saying " if it aint broken don't fix it " springs to mind...........

Everything in daily life has some risk to it........you can't fly a bird risk free for ever.........not just because of what jesses or straps you use but flying a bird generally has it's own risks............

Like I say everybody will use what works for their bird.....one day it might not work and then they will look for another alternative........thats how new things are discovered by past incidents and not wanting the same thing to happen again.
totally agree.....and just sharing my opinion & experience.:D

[FlameHairedFalconer]

when my hawks land on wet grass their feet get wet and maybe the tip of the tail.....the day is far from over!!!! & feathers dry far faster than leather.
If the jesses are stiff then fine I dont like flying birds with floppy things protruding from their body....for the same reason I tail mount telemetry with fairly short antenae.
I admit to not knowing anyone have a bird killed through permenant flying jesses but personally know a falconer who had one killed at a display through exactly the same principle via telemetry antenae.For that reason I chose not to attach floppy,thin things to my birds. Stiff thin jesses would be OK one system was described on here with plastic wire/cable jesses which would be pretty unlikely to catch.
I still chose not to use them as I believe there are better alternatives and options

I have also heard of accidents when telemetry transmitters had long and trailing antenna and completely understand your reasoning behind not wanting anything 'floppy' on your hawks. I am the same and have not yet found that the permanent flying jesses I use go excessively floppy when damp or wet. As far as I am concerned the same would happen with removable ones in the field in any event.

I should say I have seen some extremely long permanents on hawks, much longer than I would even consider using, IMO the permanent jesses should be either the same length as the mews or shorter. I guess I can go shorter as I have smaller hands!

FHF

[Dave G]

my harris hawk has permanent field jesses on him 24/7 and are changed once hes finished the moult ??? and the mews jesses just slide into the eyelet holes when i want to bow him out or fit his swivel and leash on job done . it is not wise to leave mews jesses on if free lofted as the slit could get tangles on something or get stuck on a talon and break a toe ??

[GoodFooter]

I have also heard of accidents when telemetry transmitters had long and trailing antenna and completely understand your reasoning behind not wanting anything 'floppy' on your hawks. I am the same and have not yet found that the permanent flying jesses I use go excessively floppy when damp or wet. As far as I am concerned the same would happen with removable ones in the field in any event.

I should say I have seen some extremely long permanents on hawks, much longer than I would even consider using, IMO the permanent jesses should be either the same length as the mews or shorter. I guess I can go shorter as I have smaller hands!

FHF
Totally agree......I think the leather type has a hell of a lot to do with it...I use flexible kangeroo for mews jesses so the swivel goes on easily , but thick stiff cowhide for flying jesses . Your right in that generally flying jesses a better short....well in my opinion.