Kestrels

[Shaun]

Had a phonecall today from the local council member who had found an injured Kestrel and asked if I would offer any advice.
Contacted the IBR firstly and let them know that I would go and collect the bird.
My first thought was that it had been taken from the nest from interfering busy body as I was told the bird was so tame. When I turned up to collect the bird the bloke was sat in the living room with the kestrel perched on his hand being stroked.
I realised straight away that it was not infact tame just too weak to move and wanted to lie still, eyes squinted, keal razor sharp, on deaths door. He told me he had fed it some bacon pieces in the morning!

First thought was that the bird was dehydrated as it is and I'm sure that the salty bacon wouldn't have helped either. Seemed to have put the bacon over and I have managed to drip feed 5ml of water to it. Have also offered some liver and rabbit blended with water and it took little.

It has hardly opened it's eyes since I've had it home at 8pm tonight. Bloke has already taken it to a local vet who gave it a clean bill of health and told to return it to where he found it - this bird is quite obviously on deaths door!

It seems to be a female and I was just wondering if anyone has kept or is keeping one at the moment and offer some further advice to nurse it back to health.

Flown harris hawks for a number of years and flown a sparrowhawk for a season but do feel a bit of a novice with little chappie. Hope she's still here in the morning. Any help will be greatfully excepted.

[Claire]

the salt wont do any harm dehydrated birds lack salt and I believe its one of the ingredients of lectade which we gave to wild birds in very weak conditions, please remember that for a wild bird to show weakness it really is at deaths door so don't be too dissapointed if it doesn't make it do you have any experience with crop tubing

[Shaun]

just taken some photo's for you to take a look

[Claire]

with a bird as sick as that its best not to feed it, just give it fluids do you have lectade and a crop tube for your birds? it needs more than water though

[Shaun]

Have a good understanding of the pricipals of crop tubing but have been fortunate enough never to have to do it with any of my own birds.
Do know that I would have to be careful not to put tube down airway (and know how to locate this) but any advice would be great.

managed to feed it approx 4ml of blended rabbit and liver with water and used a suringe, should I now wait until the morning to crop tube?
thanks

[Claire]

If you have lectade I would try crop tubing a small amount, only about 2.5 ml, make sure she is warm and then I would put her in a dark box where she wont go into more shock than she is, If you dont have lectade I'm not sure if there is anything you can use instead. I have nursed a few sick wild birds when I was at a centre but I had someone more experienced at hand

[Claire]

do you know of any raptor hospitals or rehab near you, they will probably be able to give you advice over the phone and possibly even pick it up tonight

[Shaun]

no don't have any lectade unfortunately. will just put it in my hawk box for the night and hope it's still alive in the morning.
Will pop to local vet in morning to get some if she is still here.
Thanks very much for replying so late in the night, will let you know how I get on but don't hold out much hope because she does look very ill.

[Claire]

If she has made it through the night this place is listed for raptor rescue
The Welsh Mountain Zoo, Colwyn Bay Ll28 5UY Tel: 01492 532938

also there is a national number who might be able to give you more advice
RAPTOR RESCUE 0870 241 0609

hope she makes it through the night :(

[Talon]

i hope too that she makes it through the night.
but as you have pointed out thats one very sick looking bird.

[Chester Pride]

Awwww...that's sad. I hope she's ok.

[buzzbee]

Hey hope its doing ok mate.

[Trappa]

Hows the kes m8?

[Goshawker 20]

alright mate,

firstly try giving her something better than rabbit like pigeon quail etc
secondly feed her little and often wen she has put the food over though feeding her a large crop wont help if she is that weak she wont be able to put it over and might get sour crop
also try dipping the bits of pigeon quail etc in water this will get a bit more fluid into her

all the best

and keep us posted

rob speakman

[Claire]

alright mate,

firstly try giving her something better than rabbit like pigeon quail etc
secondly feed her little and often wen she has put the food over though feeding her a large crop wont help if she is that weak she wont be able to put it over and might get sour crop
also try dipping the bits of pigeon quail etc in water this will get a bit more fluid into her

all the best

and keep us posted

rob speakman
sorry mate but I dont agree with this, this bird is too weak to digest solid food, she needs crop tubing and she needs something easy to metabolise lectade has all the glucose and salts etc needed to bring her up enough to be able to manage solid food, right now I'm sure feeding quail or pigeon will kill her, although from the state of her last night I very much doubt she made it.

I have realised though that this site seems to be lacking in emergency first aid advice for dealing with wild birds, maybe sprout can tell us what the best thing to give to a bird if lectade or similar is not available, I searched the web last night and really found very little advice

does anyone have any experience of the birdcare company product poly-aid, it seems to be similar to lectade but with a longer shelf life http://www.birdcareco.com/English/Product_information/All_year_products/Raptor_product_list/raptorlist.html#raptpoly

[BlackShaheen1]

the bird needs electrolites you can get it from a chemists it called dierolite they give it to babys that have diroea to rehrydrate them it comes in saches put half a sache in a small glass of sterile whater from your kettle not hot .and dip your meat in that it will be right as rain after 2 of 3 feeds

[Claire]

anyone else think from the photos that the bird hasn't put its crop over?

[BlackShaheen1]

its hard to tell from only one photo it mighrt have been full who knows if its a blockage or if it has just been fed up bifor the photo was taken

[BlackShaheen1]

from the photos the bird is not laying down or gapeing so its not to late its just shoked and needs strength ening back up

[Claire]

just to point out that if it is too weak to put its crop over feeding it solids is a bad move, electrolites yes but dipping food in it isn't good enough if it cant put it over, really think we are too late on this one though :(
found some info here zoovet.eusa.ed.ac.uk/birds%20of%20prey%202.doc
this is the important part

A sick bird requires basic supportive medication and nursing to assist it to maintain its body processes and prevent further complications to its primary disease condition.

The basic requirements are :-

Fluids. The majority of captive raptors drink infrequently. They obtain the bulk of their fluid requirements directly from their prey or from water produced during normal metabolic processes. Fluid losses increase in a bird with impaired renal function, impaired gastro-intestinal function or with an increased respiratory rate caused by disease or hyperthermia. Anorexia and excessive fluid loss leads to dehydration, in itself a potentially fatal condition. The degree of dehydration cannot be easily assessed in a bird without measuring the packed cell volume but it is safe to assume that any anorexic or debilitated raptor has lost at least 10-15% of its body fluids. It is also safe to assume that a raptor has a daily maintenance requirement for fluid of 5% of its body weight. Hence, a debilitated raptor weighing approximately 1000gms will need at least 100ml of fluid to make up the deficit, given over the first 24-48 hours, plus a daily 50ml for maintenance requirements. This fluid can be given in small amounts orally or subcutaneously, by intravenous boluses [1% body weight] or by continuous intravenous or intraosseous infusion. Isotonic fluids [Hartmann’s lactated Ringer’s solution] are suitable for parenteral administration and a variety of rehydration fluids with additional glucose [up to 5%] are suitable for oral administration.
Energy. A debilitated bird will need a readily utilisable energy source to maintain normal metabolism. This is most easily achieved by incorporating glucose in the rehydration fluid.
Heat. A sick bird will be expending its energy reserves to maintain its body temperature. The energy reserves will be spared by increasing the environmental temperature to within the bird’s normal thermo-neutral range [the temperatures above and below which no energy expenditure, beyond normal maintenance, is required for homeothermy]
At this point it is worth emphasising the fact that severely debilitated and dehydrated raptors are often incapable of dealing with solid food. They develop a crop stasis and forced feeding will run the serious risk of food material decomposing within the crop and the bird absorbing the toxins produced.

[DeathFromAbove]

the salt wont do any harm dehydrated birds lack salt and I believe its one of the ingredients of lectade which we gave to wild birds in very weak conditions, please remember that for a wild bird to show weakness it really is at deaths door so don't be too dissapointed if it doesn't make it do you have any experience with crop tubing

Have to differ a bit from this advice Claire hun, salt in bacon does do harm to BOP and know of a few that have met their ends due to saly bacon fed by unknowing public finding lost birds. To my knowledge the salts in lectade are combined with electrolytes and glycose etc... and this is why as a combination it helps. Agree that the bird does indeed look on deaths door, and will be very surprised if it made it thru the night judging by the photo. But stranger things have happened and kessys can have a real strong will. Hope the little one made it thru the night.

I buy products from the birdcare company but not had poly-aid - would critical care formula mixed to the correct dosage help do you think?

[DeathFromAbove]

mind you saying that I also know of a harris that was fed KFC and survived just fine...altho apparenty she didn't like the barbeque beans tho :lol:

[BlackShaheen1]

has any body said that its not putting its crop over i have only seen this about 20 times this year in kestrals but stick to your books and let some one who dose not know how to crop tube have a go .its good to practise on a bird thats not yours i suppose

[Claire]

I think anything that rehydrates would help. just found this page on the modern apprentice http://www.themodernapprentice.com/firstaid.htm
it says something about orange or cherry juice being used to rehydrate birds? thats a new one on me but if it works could be good advice when people have nothing to hand.

[Claire]

has any body said that its not putting its crop over i have only seen this about 20 times this year in kestrals but stick to your books and let some one who dose not know how to crop tube have a go .its good to practise on a bird thats not yours i suppose
my point was that I didn't think it should be fed solids, If he didn't feel confident crop tubing or didn't have the equipment then the fluids can be dripped into the birds mouth, he did post that he knows to avoid the windpipe and knows where it is, My last post last night was to give him the number of a local raptor rehab and the number for raptor rescue, but he hasn't posted since although he was on this morning

[DeathFromAbove]

I'm not too far from prestatyn and have a little lectade and some critical care formula. If needs be I could take it over or meet him to help out.

Shame he's not been on to post how the kes has got on this morning. :confused: Would like to know what's going on with the little one.

[BlackShaheen1]

thats what the bird needs

[Goshawker 20]

hey claire

maybe i wasnt clear before my advise on feeding was to be adminastrated after the bird had been given glucose etc wen she had a bit of her strength back ive seen so many times people think the bird has got her anergy back just because they have given her glucose, just to give her a full crop and then wen the glucose wears of she cant put the crop over.

all the best

rob speakman

[Claire]

I see you're online shaun did she make it through the night?

[DeathFromAbove]

It says he's replying to the thread on who's online at min so waiting to see claire

[Shaun]

Hi realise that you are all anxious to find out how she is doing.

The bird has not actually been eating solids I have been feeding her from a suringe a mixture of liver, rabbit, pigeon into a watery solution to be able to drip feed her into her beak (no crop tube available). She has been taking this really well, and as I have kept birds for sometime, I know the importance of putting the crop over for fear of sour crop.

Was up at 5.30 this morning and she has picked up dramatically so mixed some of the above again, about 3ml. But because she was looking a lot perkier I offered her some pigeon to self feed first (see photo's) she's eaten the amount of about two peas on her own so then I gave her the mixture from he suringe again.

Been intouch with local vet to get hold of some lectade, after some discussion his opinion was that she is getting enough fluids from the mixture I am administering and that he was confident I was doing as much if not more than he could anyway so lectade was of no benefit in this case. He is the most experienced in birds locally, but again no expert in raptors. Will probably go and get some lectade anyway just in case she takes a turn for the worst.

She standing on the end of the bowl inside my hawk box (keeping her warm and quiet in a dark place) now and is definately more alert but still a far cry from being better.

Do think that her being very underweight has sent her into shock her keal is razor sharp. Claire I see you fly a female kes, this one weighed 143grams (5oz) this morning empty?

Thanks for all your advice and concern, any more advice is still gratfully received and I will keep you all posted.

(didn't reply to you all first thing as I am a complete novice on the computer - spent 30 years in the fields hunting not typing away on a machine - so had to wait for my heavily pregnant better half to get out of bed to type this in!!!)

thanks to you all again - it's great to see such support.

[Claire]

my kes flys at 6 1/2 to 7 oz and she is a pretty small female, glad to see she has made it through the night, the first 24 hours is usually the critial time, the fact that she is attempting to eat herself is a very good sign, have you thought about getting her to a place with a raptor hospital.

[DeathFromAbove]

Glad to see she's perking up a bit there shaun. Agree it'd be a good idea to get some lectade/critical care formula in just incase she takes a turn for the worse. May be worth a visit to a raptor specialist to get her checked over. Little and often is the best course of action regarding liquids/food with her mate. May also be a good idea to treat her for parasites once she's perked up some more as they may be taking a toll on her recourses too.

[DeathFromAbove]

Now she's improving it'd be a good idea to jess her up too for more control once she has more strength back.

[Goshawker 20]

hey

great news that shaun had 2 like this last year both were fine in the end
keep us posted on how she's doing also i'd leave the jesses of untill she is a lot better dont want be stressing her out any more then you have too

all the best

rob speakman

[Shaun]

Going to make some furniture for her today but don't didn't want to tempt fate! At mo she is still in the dark box as you know with a lot of animal they sometimes show signs of getting better before popping off!!

No raptor specialists that I know of in this area (Prestatyn, North Wales) if anyone does please let me know.

I am calling Neil Forbes this afternoon for some further advice as he was very helpful 12 - 15 years ago with a male harris that I had got which had a kidney problem. A local vet prescribed him vit b12 and to crop tube, can't remember the dosage, but after speaking with Neil he couldn't believe that the bird was still alive after the dosage he had be given!

It would be nice to see what Sprout has to say if he's around, because he has the experience with the raptors. Very good idea that Claire made about having emergency first aid at your fingertips - possibly alongside 'who's online; today's posts' etc, on the forum?

Found a good first aid link earlier - will get the address and post it on.

[DeathFromAbove]

Going to make some furniture for her today but don't didn't want to tempt fate! At mo she is still in the dark box as you know with a lot of animal they sometimes show signs of getting better before popping off!!

No raptor specialists that I know of in this area (Prestatyn, North Wales) if anyone does please let me know.

I am calling Neil Forbes this afternoon for some further advice as he was very helpful 12 - 15 years ago with a male harris that I had got which had a kidney problem. A local vet prescribed him vit b12 and to crop tube, can't remember the dosage, but after speaking with Neil he couldn't believe that the bird was still alive after the dosage he had be given!

It would be nice to see what Sprout has to say if he's around, because he has the experience with the raptors. Very good idea that Claire made about having emergency first aid at your fingertips - possibly alongside 'who's online; today's posts' etc, on the forum?

Found a good first aid link earlier - will get the address and post it on.

Either Mike or Richard are great raptor specialists here mate - and not too far.
Birch Heath Veterinary Clinic
Birch Heath Rd
Tarporley
Cheshire
CW6 9UU
01829 733777

[DeathFromAbove]

hey

great news that shaun had 2 like this last year both were fine in the end
keep us posted on how she's doing also i'd leave the jesses of untill she is a lot better dont want be stressing her out any more then you have too

all the best

rob speakman

Aye... I did suggest it but only when her strength is back.

[Shaun]

Will give them a ring later thanks mate.

couple of sites with some first aid info on:

http://www.nbpc.co.uk/emergency.htm
http:/www.lansdown-vets.co.uk (Neil Forbes site)

[Shaun]

whilst we are on the subject of first aid and got peoples attention.

I have used this company on a number of occasions for mute and swab tests and the service is outstanding.

They post 98% results of samples they received within 24 hours.

They do anything and everything from vitamins to diseases, disinfectants etc.

These people are extremely helpful. They specialise in pigeons but after speaking to them about hawks they really know their stuff.

email: pigeon.health@virgin.net
Tel: (01206)243767

Pigeon Health
U.K. animal products ltd.
The Brook, Huxtables Lane,
Fordham Heath,
Colchester,
Essex. CO3 9TJ

[GregMik]

Another good substitute for lactade is Pedialite. It is like a sports drink for babies, it is not like gatoraid or anything like that, so don't use any of those. It can be used in an emergency to rehydrate sick birds.

Good idea on the quick guide Claire.


Greg

[DeathFromAbove]

whilst we are on the subject of first aid and got peoples attention.

I have used this company on a number of occasions for mute and swab tests and the service is outstanding.

They post 98% results of samples they received within 24 hours.

They do anything and everything from vitamins to diseases, disinfectants etc.

These people are extremely helpful. They specialise in pigeons but after speaking to them about hawks they really know their stuff.

email: pigeon.health@virgin.net

Tel: (01206)243767

Pigeon Health
U.K. animal products ltd.
The Brook, Huxtables Lane,
Fordham Heath,
Colchester,
Essex. CO3 9TJ

How much do they charge to do a mute sample mate?

usually just send mine to birch heath.

[Goshawker 20]

Now she's improving it'd be a good idea to jess her up too for more control once she has more strength back.

for more control once she has stength back implys doing it before she has all her strength back

not really that botherd was just trying to make it obvious to him not to rush with the jesses

all the best

rob speakman

[Talon]

well done shaun.i know the kessies not out of the woods yet.dut i didnt think it would make it through the night by the pictures you posted.
so good on you m8.and well done again.hope it gets stronger and better,:supz:

[DeathFromAbove]

for more control once she has stength back implys doing it before she has all her strength back

not really that botherd was just trying to make it obvious to him not to rush with the jesses

all the best

rob speakman

Yeah... see that now, should have made it a little clearer to avoid a misunderstanding.

All the best mate.

[Goshawker 20]

alright dfa,

wasnt have a pop mate :supz:

all the best

rob speakman

[jude]

shaun,although the bird is starting to take small amounts for herself it would be better if you could crop feed as well,that way you will be able to ensure adequate nutrition and help recovery,glucose solution and lectade are great to rehydrate but you need to feed her up(slowly,be careful not to overfeed) someone mentioned the vets in chester,am sure they will be happy to advise you on amounts for a bird of this weight( if i remember correctly its approx 1\3 of the birds weight a day-but excuse me if i'm wrong,i'm about ta zip off on holiday an am up to me eyeballs in stuff!) ring yer local vets an ask them for some royal canin convalescence diet,its in powder form and can be made up really sloppy so a doddle to crop feed,most vets carry this sort of thing,and as posted previously dont be tempted to add salt to the fluid you are giving her,if overused it can cause way more harm than good
hope the bird goes on ok,well done for trying,its a good feeling if you manage to get them through
jude

[Shaun]

Just quick one to let you all know that she is doing well. She flew from the hand about 3foot and staight to the food I had on the dish and started eating it!.
same this evening.

Will post some more photo's tomorrow afternoon that I have taken of her feeding tonight (all being well with my better half as it is her due date tomorrow!)
Seems to be some improvement, she definately looks brighter.

[Shaun]

Death from above - sorry mate haven't got a price (lost the receipt I had) Give them a quick call I did find them really cheap and really helpful.

[GyrXPeales]

Really a good thing you're doing Shaun, sounds like she is almost out of the woods. Top job Shaun!!:supz:
Regards,
Jeff