Emergency First Aid

[Sprout]

I have been asked to start a post on emergency first aid, so if anyone has anything specific to ask or want to know then ask away or PM me.

Firstly - crop tubing. I think this is the most important aspect of first aid, and there shouldn't be any real excuse why someone can't perform this simple procedure. To start with visit your local veterinary surgery and ask if you can have some old syringes (5, 10 and 20ml) and some old drip tubing to use as your crop tube. I'd imagine most would let you have some used ones for nothing but if they are tight as a ducks arse may charge you a few quid. At the same time ask to buy either a sachet of lectade (or similar) and a tin of Hills A/D - both have long shelf lives so should last for a while (again, prob cost a pound or two). For shock I give Lectade only, but longer term mix in Hills A/D to a consistency so that it can be sucked up into the syringe - a dose of 40ml/kg can be given upto 3 times daily but for short term shock only use smaller amounts (10ml/kg) and gradually increase upto the 40ml/kg dose if doing ok. To administer crop tubed fluids have an assistant hold the bird vertically, hold the beak open and slide the tube down the side of the mouth into the crop. The opening to the wind pipe can be seen as a lemon/slit shaped hole at the base of the tongue (avoid this at all costs). The tube can often be felt sliding down the side of the neck and into the crop - administed the fluids slowly. Obviously if the bird shows signs of regurgitation or coughing stop administering imemdiately (or don't attempt if it is unconscious). A good way to practice is on a dead quail or similar, place the tube in and you should feel it in the crop region. This will help save more birds than any other treatment and will hopefully keep them alive until specialist advice can be sought.
Preparation is the key and there is no real excuse for not having the equipment (costs pennies) in your hawking box. An aletrnative would be to mix half a pint of warm water with 2 tablespoons of sugar and use some of this to mix with a meat based babies food.

[Finnish]

Will be watching this thread with interest...:)

[Sprout]

Pitbull has asked about signs of lead poisoning and its treatment. Clinical signs related to this are fitting, lethargy, weaknes, anorexia and an apparent blindness - all pretty non specific and can be attributed to other heavy metals and toxins. One sign that is specific and fairly common with lead poisoning is leg weakness with the birds resting on their hocks and clenching one foot with the other. Green faeces is also quite common. I will not go into treatment as if you are suspicious get the bird to an avian vet asap.

[Hardcore Hawker]

Sprout with alot of begginers getting new birds entered soon especially during this hot weather and the chances of new birds being slightly dehydrated a warning on feeding up too much on first kills etc in relation to sour crop and its prevention please explain any pre vet action that can be taken if any would be benificial.

[Claire]

thanks for this sprout its a great resource to have on the forum :grin:

[DeathFromAbove]

Hiya Karl mate, great Idea for a thread, if it help even one person in a crisis then it's done it's job.

With your reference to crop tubing on the first post, do you or have you used critical care formula to crop tube a bird? and if so is it a better alternative to hills A/D or if available would you choose CCF everytime? What would be the pros and cons in your mind of each?

Cheers - Stu

[GM090158]

This is a great thread please nkeep going sprout.

[Sprout]

Hiya Karl mate, great Idea for a thread, if it help even one person in a crisis then it's done it's job.

With your reference to crop tubing on the first post, do you or have you used critical care formula to crop tube a bird? and if so is it a better alternative to hills A/D or if available would you choose CCF everytime? What would be the pros and cons in your mind of each?

Cheers - Stu
Critical care is fine, our practice stocks Hills so I have most experience with that brand. Different companies produce different "critical care" formulas, I suppose the one with the highest calorific value is the most useful (Hills is fairly high) but remember the fluid is more important than the nutrition in an emergency. Also feed it warmed, tubing cold fluid/solution into the crop can further slow gastric motility and add to the problems.

[Sprout]

Sprout with alot of begginers getting new birds entered soon especially during this hot weather and the chances of new birds being slightly dehydrated a warning on feeding up too much on first kills etc in relation to sour crop and its prevention please explain any pre vet action that can be taken if any would be benificial.
Hopefully a bird shouldn't be dehydrated as all should have regular access to baths. However as you mention a number of newly entered birds do succumb to sour crop. I believe the main reason for this is the bird is relatively low in condition due to manning and trying to enter the bird so has had minimal throughput in terms of food/casting etc. On the first kill people get carried away and allow the bird to gorge as a reward. The bird possibly being over keen will over gorge, affecting the ability of the crop to empty correctly. At the higher body temperature of the bird and in the hotter environmental temperature food will sour very quickly causing sour crop. The solution is to resist the urge to allow the bird to over crop itself on the kill. If the bird has food in the crop 4 hours later then keep a very close eye on it, it should have emptied by that time. If not fully empty a few hours later sour crop may be setting in, smell the breath - sour crop smells like rotten flesh, and the bird will go downhill very quickly. If confident crop tube a small amount of fluid to soften the contents and stimulate the crop again but get the bird to an avian vet asap. Some people recommend milking the crop contents out, which is fine but a big risk of inhalation pneumonia - I prefer to anaesthetise the bird, place an endotracheal tube to protect the airway then remove the contents, either by milking out or if the bird is particularly septic then remove by making an incision in the crop (which can be sutured a few days later). Cover the bird with broad spectrum anti-biotics.

[Harris]

Sprout I know it's difficult to describe a procedure with text only, but using a Harris as an example, how far approximately does a crop tube need to go into the crop, or doesn't it matter as long as it goes in. I'm going on a Neil forbes day course in a few weeks, so will hopefully get some hands on then, but have been wondering about crop tubing for a while, as it seems a very important issue.

Thanks
Simon

[Sprout]

Sprout I know it's difficult to describe a procedure with text only, but using a Harris as an example, how far approximately does a crop tube need to go into the crop, or doesn't it matter as long as it goes in. I'm going on a Neil forbes day course in a few weeks, so will hopefully get some hands on then, but have been wondering about crop tubing for a while, as it seems a very important issue.

Thanks
Simon
You can measure the approx distance from mouth to crop - for a HH about 4 inches of tubing will be sufficient. gnererally you can see and feel it passing down the side of the neck and into the crop. One thing though is lubricate it first (spit) and never force it, especially in cases of sour crop for risk of perforating an already inflammed crop. I've never known too much crop tube be used but potentially the tube can kink and knot if crosses in the crop (has been known when catheterising bladders - if too much catheter is threaded in it can knot and need surgery to un do!!) But you'd need a huge length of crop tubing to do that - be practical and use a length and guage tubing to suit each individual species.

[Harris]

You can measure the approx distance from mouth to crop - for a HH about 4 inches of tubing will be sufficient. gnererally you can see and feel it passing down the side of the neck and into the crop. One thing though is lubricate it first (spit) and never force it, especially in cases of sour crop for risk of perforating an already inflammed crop. I've never known too much crop tube be used but potentially the tube can kink and knot if crosses in the crop (has been known when catheterising bladders - if too much catheter is threaded in it can knot and need surgery to un do!!) But you'd need a huge length of crop tubing to do that - be practical and use a length and guage tubing to suit each individual species.

Cheers mate, hopefully its something that I will never have to do, but I feel I owe it to my birds to get up to speed on the subject, hece the neil forbes course, I will have a practice on a quail tomorrow, as I have the kit here. I would hate it if the first time I had to do it, was for real. Thanks again, and great thread.

Simon

[Talon]

excellant thread this is sprout, and its what ppl need to know.:supz:

[Gram]

they are selling crop tubing kits on ebay for a fiver free p&p dont know if any good

[Hardcore Hawker]

Sprout this is what this forum should be about excellent.

[AndyUK]

great thread :supz:


thanks for taking the time to help your a gent




Andy............

[Sprout]

Parasites.

I have been asked about treatment for both internal and external parasites, not strictly first aid but will cover it anyway.

Worms - many know my views on regular worming already but in essence I do not agree with dosing routinely just incase worms are present. It is far better to check a faecal sample twice yearly and treat IF worms are present. Treating blindly can cause as many problems as it solves and make things more complicated in the future if it doesn't follow accordingly to plan. Any bird not holding weight, reduced appetite, head flicking, diarrhoea etc should be checked first before blindly worming, the delay in waiting to see if the wormer has worked may mean something more sinister is masked and temporarily ignored in whcih case precious time has been lost. It takes only a little fore thought to collect a faecal sample and have it checked by your vet to rule these problems out.

Mites/lice - check the bird at night, red mites generally only feed on the bird at night and live in the housing the rest of the time. Heavy infestations of flat flies and similar can cause significant blood loss especially in young birds so regular checks should be made and treat accordingly. Pyrethrin sprays are effective as most treatments, but also don;t forget to treat the housing in cases of red mite. Frontline spray is fine and can be used in birds of all ages but be care with use on feathers, being alcohol based it can dry and make the feathers brittle if used excessively and chill young birds if used excessively. It is not licensed for birds and as such if you use it your vet may ask you to sign a disclaimer (although it is soon to lose its POM licence). Ivermectin type drugs are also used, but again not licensed so speak to your vet prior to using such drugs.

[StormRider]

Invaluable.
STU

[DeathFromAbove]

Parasites.

I have been asked about treatment for both internal and external parasites, not strictly first aid but will cover it anyway.

Worms - many know my views on regular worming already but in essence I do not agree with dosing routinely just incase worms are present. It is far better to check a faecal sample twice yearly and treat IF worms are present. Treating blindly can cause as many problems as it solves and make things more complicated in the future if it doesn't follow accordingly to plan. Any bird not holding weight, reduced appetite, head flicking, diarrhoea etc should be checked first before blindly worming, the delay in waiting to see if the wormer has worked may mean something more sinister is masked and temporarily ignored in whcih case precious time has been lost. It takes only a little fore thought to collect a faecal sample and have it checked by your vet to rule these problems out.

Mites/lice - check the bird at night, red mites generally only feed on the bird at night and live in the housing the rest of the time. Heavy infestations of flat flies and similar can cause significant blood loss especially in young birds so regular checks should be made and treat accordingly. Pyrethrin sprays are effective as most treatments, but also don;t forget to treat the housing in cases of red mite. Frontline spray is fine and can be used in birds of all ages but be care with use on feathers, being alcohol based it can dry and make the feathers brittle if used excessively and chill young birds if used excessively. It is not licensed for birds and as such if you use it your vet may ask you to sign a disclaimer (although it is soon to lose its POM licence). Ivermectin type drugs are also used, but again not licensed so speak to your vet prior to using such drugs.

How does Johnsons Anti Mite match up to them mate? personally I've been using the johnsons thus far and 'zodiac' in the aviary. Would you suggest I change to frontline or is johnsons adequate?

[Sprout]

How does Johnsons Anti Mite match up to them mate? personally I've been using the johnsons thus far and 'zodiac' in the aviary. Would you suggest I change to frontline or is johnsons adequate?
Johnsons seems to work well enough

[Sprout]

Anyone got anything else specific they want answering (If I can??). If not I'll just add another topic every now and then when I get time??

[Tasha55403]

Howse about what to do about heat stroke and what signs to look for?

[Tasha55403]

It's over 36C with 42% humidity and been like that for the last 3 weeks and no end in sight :rolleyes:

[Sprout]

Howse about what to do about heat stroke and what signs to look for?

Good one. The signs of heat stroke are very vague and non-specific and can resemble any number of other conditions but logic dictates and can be relatively easy to identify and (hopefully) treat/remedy. A bird kept in direct sun, without shade and no access to water etc, especially a bird stressed by manning and probably relatively low in condition (or at least a reducing plane of nutrition) will be at most risk of hyperthermia. So firstly, prevention is better than cure - ensure your housing is adequate to protect your bird not only from cold, rain etc and predators but also consider the sun!! ALWAYS have regular access to bathing, whether you think the bird will use it or not. A hot bird pants, breathing through open mouth - a way to lose excess heat (same as a dog) however panting long term is an inefficient way of cooling and long term the temperature will continue to raise. As hyperthermia sets in the bird can then develop neurological type signs similar to what can be seen in cases of poisoning or heavy metal intoxication eg fits, inco-ordination, collapse, weakness etc etc - if ignored the bird will fall into a coma and probably die. If suspicious of heat stroke, placing the bird somewhere cooler with access to a bath (but keeping a close eye on the bird incase it is so weakened it falls/drowns in the bath) and crop tubing fluid (it will also be dehydrated). If not responding then get it to your avian vet for intravenous fluids.

[Sprout]

If the bird won;t bathe and insists on sunbathing regular spraying with water will help keep cool.

[Tasha55403]

I think my redtail is living in his bathpan-his jesses are wet almost every time I peek in on him, though I've never caught him in the bath:lol:

[Tasha55403]

Thank you Sprout:supz: That was quick!:lol:

[DorsetAde]

Sprout

If a bird is getting too hot, will it "normally" want to use the bath to cool down ? My MRt seems to sit there wings spread panting like a good 'n to lose the heat but doesn't use the bath. He's fine other than that and not showing any signs of distress.

Cheers

Ade

[JayHawk]

excellent thread just what we need on here well done sprout

[BlackHawke]

karl great thread thanks for taking the time to provide us with very useful info.

wot about treatment for wounds? bites? lost talons etc? blood pouring everwhere!:roll: also shock, if a bird flys into a window, tree wotever, best way to facilitate a speedy recovery?

[LongVVing]

Great thread sprout!

Would you recommend any routine preventative treatment for bumblefoot.
I just keep all perching clean and routinley disinfected.I clean the bird feet of any debris or animal matter after feeding. I prefer not to use leg mounted transmitters or bells.

In 15 years have only had bumblefoot once in a tiercel peregrine which had broken a leg and used the other foot for perching. A small lump appeared on the used foot which my vet treated using baytril. The lump worked its way to the surface then dropped off. Everything was good after that.

Would you recommend any creams eg prep H as a routine treatnment?

Thanks in advance,

Mark.

[Mr_Colin]

karl great thread thanks for taking the time to provide us with very useful info.

wot about treatment for wounds? bites? lost talons etc? blood pouring everwhere!:roll: also shock, if a bird flys into a window, tree wotever, best way to facilitate a speedy recovery?

Dont forget fences, Happened to me twice in 2 seasons, not good odds :roll:

[Sprout]

Great thread sprout!

Would you recommend any routine preventative treatment for bumblefoot.
I just keep all perching clean and routinley disinfected.I clean the bird feet of any debris or animal matter after feeding. I prefer not to use leg mounted transmitters or bells.

In 15 years have only had bumblefoot once in a tiercel peregrine which had broken a leg and used the other foot for perching. A small lump appeared on the used foot which my vet treated using baytril. The lump worked its way to the surface then dropped off. Everything was good after that.

Would you recommend any creams eg prep H as a routine treatnment?

Thanks in advance,



Mark.
Good clean perching - I personally only use astro-turf, something that evens the pressure points out on the foot. Creams and ointments can be used (I use F10) although within reason I believe the actual massaging of the ointment in does as much if not more benefit to the foot than the ingredients of the ointment. Most importantly check the feet every day - the first signs of bumblefoot can be reversed easily - changing perching, cutting down to flying weight and flying etc BUT only if caught early.

[Sprout]

karl great thread thanks for taking the time to provide us with very useful info.

wot about treatment for wounds? bites? lost talons etc? blood pouring everwhere!:roll: also shock, if a bird flys into a window, tree wotever, best way to facilitate a speedy recovery?

For bites I would always seek further advice, depending on where the bite is (near joint/tendon etc) it can have far reaching implications if not treated correctly. In the field clean it as best as possible, using something like povidone-iodine etc (cheaply purchased from most chemists). Once clean visit your vets for further assessment/anti-biotics.
Broken talons should also be treated similarly, clean the wound and keep it clean and again generally cover with anti-biotics to prevent the quick becoming infected. Once the nail has been removed it taken time for the new talon to re-grow, and the quick will be exposed until this happens. There is no guarantee the talon will re-grow as normal either, time will tell. Ideally the bird will not be flown in this time until the nail has re-covered the exposed quick for risk of damaging it further. I have used a product called new kin before from the chemists that works well and helps initially protect the exposed quick.
For haemorrhage, application of pressue to the site for a few minutes should stop most venous bleeds, hooding the hawk to keep it still and preventing bates will also help. If not using caustic pencils or potassium permanganate crystals will stem the flow of blood. IF you feel the need to apply a bandage, especially with elasticated material such as vetwrap be very careful it is not too tight, a tourniquet effect applied for more than 20 minutes can lead to irreversible vascular compromise.

[BlackShaheen1]

there is a book called homoeopathic treatment for birds by beryl m chapman. witch ma be helpfull to have in your libary

[Lyn Birds]

For bites I would always seek further advice, depending on where the bite is (near joint/tendon etc) it can have far reaching implications if not treated correctly. In the field clean it as best as possible, using something like povidone-iodine etc (cheaply purchased from most chemists). Once clean visit your vets for further assessment/anti-biotics.
Broken talons should also be treated similarly, clean the wound and keep it clean and again generally cover with anti-biotics to prevent the quick becoming infected. Once the nail has been removed it taken time for the new talon to re-grow, and the quick will be exposed until this happens. There is no guarantee the talon will re-grow as normal either, time will tell. Ideally the bird will not be flown in this time until the nail has re-covered the exposed quick for risk of damaging it further. I have used a product called new kin before from the chemists that works well and helps initially protect the exposed quick.
For haemorrhage, application of pressue to the site for a few minutes should stop most venous bleeds, hooding the hawk to keep it still and preventing bates will also help. If not using caustic pencils or potassium permanganate crystals will stem the flow of blood. IF you feel the need to apply a bandage, especially with elasticated material such as vetwrap be very careful it is not too tight, a tourniquet effect applied for more than 20 minutes can lead to irreversible vascular compromise.

excellent thread well done interesting reading

[shortwingn]

Hello Sprout,
Here is one for you that no one can seem to give me any direction on. I have a 16 times intermewed Harris Hawk that over the last five years freezes up when the tempter drops below 28 degrees. This only happens while out flying. In the mew he dose fine in much colder weather. The episode seems to come on without warning and only when flying and only when it is 28 degrees or lower. When this has happened in the past I have crop tubed him with warm fluids and he perked up and is fine in about fifteen minutes The last vet I spoke to told me the joke about Q. Doc, it hurts when I do this." A. "Well don't do that." Needless to say I wasn't amused. Any ideas
The worst thing about this all is he is a fantastic game hawk when it is above 28 degrees.
Erik Swanson

[Tasha55403]

Hello Sprout,
Here is one for you that no one can seem to give me any direction on. I have a 16 times intermewed Harris Hawk that over the last five years freezes up when the tempter drops below 28 degrees. This only happens while out flying. In the mew he dose fine in much colder weather. The episode seems to come on without warning and only when flying and only when it is 28 degrees or lower. When this has happened in the past I have crop tubed him with warm fluids and he perked up and is fine in about fifteen minutes The last vet I spoke to told me the joke about Q. Doc, it hurts when I do this." A. "Well don't do that." Needless to say I wasn't amused. Any ideas
The worst thing about this all is he is a fantastic game hawk when it is above 28 degrees.
Erik Swanson

If you're talking 28 degrees F...it's a Harris Hawk. They are desert birds and NOT meant for the cold weather. It's fine in your mews because it's out of the wind, which makes a big difference. This is why Greg doesn't fly our Harris all winter here in MN-he's mostly limited to crows in the summer and rabbits early fall. The last couple years have been warm so some folks around here have been able to fly their harrises, sortof, through the winter, but that's fairly unusual.

[DeathFromAbove]

If you're talking 28 degrees F...it's a Harris Hawk. They are desert birds and NOT meant for the cold weather. It's fine in your mews because it's out of the wind, which makes a big difference. This is why Greg doesn't fly our Harris all winter here in MN-he's mostly limited to crows in the summer and rabbits early fall. The last couple years have been warm so some folks around here have been able to fly their harrises, sortof, through the winter, but that's fairly unusual.

How cold does it get there Tash? I've flown my harris right thru winters here and it's been really really cold here, seems to sharpen her up if anything.

[Tasha55403]

It frequently gets down to -5F (less than -20C) in the nights (and occasionally we have that for the HIGH for the day as well)-Minnesota gets a bit chilly in the winter:lol: Harrises around here either need heated mews, live in the house, or are brought in when it gets below a certain temp depending on the mews setup.

[DeathFromAbove]

It frequently gets down to -5F (less than -20C) in the nights (and occasionally we have that for the HIGH for the day as well)-Minnesota gets a bit chilly in the winter:lol: Harrises around here either need heated mews, live in the house, or are brought in when it gets below a certain temp depending on the mews setup.

That's interesting. that's bloody cold there tash. I think we have had some nights that are as cold as that but generally if the harris is high enough above frost level and at a good weight they're fine here, and fly well and at a high weight so most look forward to the cold weather. Mind you having a daytime temp of -5F is a hell of a fresh one! colder than a penguins fridge brrrrrrrrr lol

[Fires59]

really good reading and invaluable knowledge gained many thanks sprout:)

[Gozzhawk]

First off , good on ye Sprout , reliable factual info .All good.
But with regards to temperatures , I speak from personal experience here, i come from Scotland , If there is a heavy ground frost ( maybe -3) and you could be up 500ft your bird another 500ft and a wind of even 10mph I reckon roughly ( -1 every 100ft, windchill) about -12ish or so , I have flown hawks and falcons to no ill effects , my birds were not kept heated , were fit and flown regularly.
Obviously like us some folk are fair weather fliers and some are more hardy.
being a desert species(HH ref) to me means it is more tolerant of variances in temp , ie high dat temp and low night.

[Puzo]

What can be done [if anything] for bee & wasp stings. Wasps in particular tend to land on kills or food, especially in the warm muggy days of autumn. In the event of a bird being stung, is their anything that can be administered to reduce any swelling that may occur esp in the mouth & throat?

[DeathFromAbove]

What can be done [if anything] for bee & wasp stings. Wasps in particular tend to land on kills or food, especially in the warm muggy days of autumn. In the event of a bird being stung, is their anything that can be administered to reduce any swelling that may occur esp in the mouth & throat?

Hiya mate - My bird got a wasp sting on the side of her face at the end of last season, gave her her food one afternoon, went out, checked on her the following morning to see her face swollen up with her eyes nearly closed from it, I nearly sh*t myself, had no idea what had happened to her and was worried sick, she was breathing ok and was ok in herself (actually she wanted more food) but had her straight birch heath vet surgery, told me it was a sting there, they gave her an anti histamine injection and sent me off with metacam to add to her food for a few days. the swelling went down within hours of the injection and she was fine.

[falconryismylife]

sprout,
can you tell me what a basic first-aid kit would contain,
and where abouts i could buy it all from,
as i fly where there is lots of barbed wire fences and im getting scared that one of my MHH's will fly into some, as did a friends gyr x peregrine, (not nice)
and also, one of my male harris's has a few of his leg scales gone brown, is it serious? or maybe just brusing?
another thing, a friend has a EEO that has bad jess sores,
his legs are just red skin, hes lost all the feathers under his anklets, he was tethered, but is now in a big enclosure, can you suggest some treatment
thankyou very much for your time.

[LongVVing]

Good clean perching - I personally only use astro-turf, something that evens the pressure points out on the foot. Creams and ointments can be used (I use F10) although within reason I believe the actual massaging of the ointment in does as much if not more benefit to the foot than the ingredients of the ointment. Most importantly check the feet every day - the first signs of bumblefoot can be reversed easily - changing perching, cutting down to flying weight and flying etc BUT only if caught early.

Thanks Sprout,

I myself like to use astroturf perching and on my blocks. I think provided it is routinely cleaned and disinfected it one of the best perching materials around.
I think that as well as evening out the pressure points to the foot it allows good airflow around the feet.

I do also have stone/rock perching for my falcons in their mews which again is regularly scrubbed.

All the best,

Mark.

[Sprout]

Hello Sprout,
Here is one for you that no one can seem to give me any direction on. I have a 16 times intermewed Harris Hawk that over the last five years freezes up when the tempter drops below 28 degrees. This only happens while out flying. In the mew he dose fine in much colder weather. The episode seems to come on without warning and only when flying and only when it is 28 degrees or lower. When this has happened in the past I have crop tubed him with warm fluids and he perked up and is fine in about fifteen minutes The last vet I spoke to told me the joke about Q. Doc, it hurts when I do this." A. "Well don't do that." Needless to say I wasn't amused. Any ideas
The worst thing about this all is he is a fantastic game hawk when it is above 28 degrees.
Erik Swanson
What do you mean he freezes up? Just reluctant to fly or something more sinister? More info would be useful, certainly sounds odd. But I am a firm believer in if you know how to avoid a problem, then avoid it, and don;t push it. IE, if flying your bird in such low temperatures is putting it at risk for whatever reason then don;t do it??

[Sprout]

What can be done [if anything] for bee & wasp stings. Wasps in particular tend to land on kills or food, especially in the warm muggy days of autumn. In the event of a bird being stung, is their anything that can be administered to reduce any swelling that may occur esp in the mouth & throat?
Similar to people, if you get stung by a wasp you will get a localised reaction, some may be allergic and have an anaphylactic reaction and to be honest if this happens and you are any distance from your vets the chance of being able to do anything practical to save the bird is minimal. If the bird is stung in the mouth then veterinary advice should eb sought to prevent swelling occluding the airway, drugs such as steroids will be given and probably anti-histamines. I'm not going to quote doses because if this happens and you are concerned then it is better to seek the advice of your avian vet rather than try empirical drugs and "see" if they help. Oral medications don;t work anywhere near as quick as injectible meds do,a nd if stung in the mouth, the difference in time could be the difference between a live and dead hawk. Saying that, the majority of stings etc will not have such dramatic consequences.

[Sprout]

sprout,
can you tell me what a basic first-aid kit would contain,
and where abouts i could buy it all from,
as i fly where there is lots of barbed wire fences and im getting scared that one of my MHH's will fly into some, as did a friends gyr x peregrine, (not nice)
and also, one of my male harris's has a few of his leg scales gone brown, is it serious? or maybe just brusing?
another thing, a friend has a EEO that has bad jess sores,
his legs are just red skin, hes lost all the feathers under his anklets, he was tethered, but is now in a big enclosure, can you suggest some treatment
thankyou very much for your time.
There are a few people selling first aid kits ( a lot made up by Neil Forbes) and all are relatively good. For emergency all you need are a crop tube/tubes, electrolyte solution from your vets eg lectade and caustic pencils/potassium permanganate to stem haemorrhage. A pot of povidone iodine is also useful for bites/cuts.
The brown scales and probably damaged scales that may slough off due to bruising. Find out if there is a reason the bird is bating too much/leash too long and remedy the cause. Ifs cales become displaced then potentially infection can sit in underneath so just keep a close eye of the leg.
For the EEO free lofting will help but is a common problem with birds with feathered legs, especially if thr anklets don;t fit quite right or the bird bates a lot. Using dermisol will help to lift any scabs and help the new granulation tissue, you may find that new feathers may not re-grow if damage has been caused to the germinal cells but so long as the skin isn't infected it shouldn't cause a problem

[shortwingn]

What do you mean he freezes up? Just reluctant to fly or something more sinister? More info would be useful, certainly sounds odd. But I am a firm believer in if you know how to avoid a problem, then avoid it, and don;t push it. IE, if flying your bird in such low temperatures is putting it at risk for whatever reason then don;t do it??

By freezes up I mean fall out of the sky and have a seizure. Most of the time he has made it to me and then had the seizure. I have quite flying him during the winter as a few days we went out and the temperature dropped. It seems to have something with the cold air and him breathing hard. Like a little child sucking down a cold slurpie on a hot day. But so long as the temperature stays above 28 degrees he is fine. In the past he has flown in -20 degree weather with out any problems. I just wish I could find the reason for this? Like I said he is a fantastic game hawk.
Erik

[Matty]

what an excellant thread
top man sprout :supz:

[madbirdlady]

Brilliant thread, thanks Sprout :)

[Gozzhawk]

would check on the legality of keepeing an owl tethered , many 'centres' should look at this... but hey , I aint the polis.

[freefly]

Hi, I am new to this forum, so Hello to you all! We have a young FHH, she went on the bow perch fine, very steady. After five days she is now not weight bearing on one leg although she does have movement . Any ideas? no sign of bumblefoot, not sure if it's a foot or leg problem. Thanks in advance for any help.

[Puzo]

without at least a few more details it would be impossible even to hazard a guess. It may just be lifting it's leg quite naturaly to sleep! Has she bated excessively? Is there any area of the leg which is obviously producing heat? What kind of surface does the bow-perch have? How long has she spent tied to the bow, not 5 days? I'm not extracting the micturation, but with this little to go on, What can anyone say, take her to a good avian vet!

[freefly]

Hi, to answer your questions, no she is not lifting her leg to sleep:rolleyes: there isn't any heat in the leg or foot. She has not baited excessively, and her bow has a *****ly rubber grip on it. She can lift her leg and can open and close her foot but without any pressure behind it and prefers not to put any weight on the foot/leg.

[Sprout]

Hi, to answer your questions, no she is not lifting her leg to sleep:rolleyes: there isn't any heat in the leg or foot. She has not baited excessively, and her bow has a *****ly rubber grip on it. She can lift her leg and can open and close her foot but without any pressure behind it and prefers not to put any weight on the foot/leg.

Impossible to say without seeing the bird but young HH put out on the bow are very prone to fracturing the tibio-tarsal bone as the bone structure changes shape from a triangular cross section to an oval cross section, causing a weak point. If it is not happy using the leg it needs examining by an avian vet asap and probably xrays taken to ensure no fracture. Tethering with too long a leash is a big contributing factor.

[Mal Mason]

top thread sprout, I havnt been on for a while and reading this thread has got me thinking.
I have been useing (virkon s) disingfectant for my houseing and also a very thin dilute (virkon s ) for the birds feathers for around 4 yrs, and i have had very healthy birds. I was told this is very effective? have i just been very lucky or, DO YOU THINK I SHOULD CARRY ON DOING WHAT IM DOING.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Hi Sprout

Would you be able to tell me what the long term prospects are with a bird who has suffered a broken collar bone.
Is it going to be a long term risk?

Would this affect the way the wings are beaten in balance with each other.

Regards

[Sprout]

The long term prognosis depends on how close the fracture was to the joint. If it involves the joint or is very close then the long term prognosis would always be guarded. If the fracture was away from the joint then so long as it has healed with good alignment and no shortening of the bone then the prognosis should be relatively good.

[Sprout]

top thread sprout, I havnt been on for a while and reading this thread has got me thinking.
I have been useing (virkon s) disingfectant for my houseing and also a very thin dilute (virkon s ) for the birds feathers for around 4 yrs, and i have had very healthy birds. I was told this is very effective? have i just been very lucky or, DO YOU THINK I SHOULD CARRY ON DOING WHAT IM DOING.

Not sure why you would want to spray your bird with dilute virkon. Virkon can be quite caustic so I'd be careful applying it to the feathers. It is great for housing and can even be used diluted in baths, but I personally would not spray a bird with it.

[Fly The Snipe]

Hi,

Which care for pneumonia? Nebulisation of antibiotics... Is the bird able to recover its capacities of breathing? Does this disease begin again régularly?

Thanks,

Vincent.

[Sprout]

Hi,

Which care for pneumonia? Nebulisation of antibiotics... Is the bird able to recover its capacities of breathing? Does this disease begin again régularly?

Thanks,

Vincent.

Depends on the reason for pneumonia, ie is it a primary lung problem, air sac problem or secondary to aspergillosis or gape worm etc??? Nebulisation helps but you must use a nebuliser that produces particles small enough to penetrate the alveoli of the lungs. Nebulised drugs cannot penetrate granulomas/large areas of infection so syetemic anti-biotics will also be required (unless asper). Recovery depends on what is causing the problem and how long it has been present, some birds may never recover.

[Mary Quite Contrary]

The long term prognosis depends on how close the fracture was to the joint. If it involves the joint or is very close then the long term prognosis would always be guarded. If the fracture was away from the joint then so long as it has healed with good alignment and no shortening of the bone then the prognosis should be relatively good.


Tar chuck

[Puzo]

I have been useing (virkon s) disingfectant for my houseing and also a very thin dilute (virkon s ) for the birds feathers for around 4 yrs, and i have had very healthy birds. I was told this is very effective? have i just been very lucky or, DO YOU THINK I SHOULD CARRY ON DOING WHAT IM DOING.

Johnsons make a "Plume Spray" [It's supposed to "Enhance natural sheen of plumage & "deter"? insects]

[Fly The Snipe]

Depends on the reason for pneumonia, ie is it a primary lung problem, air sac problem or secondary to aspergillosis or gape worm etc??? Nebulisation helps but you must use a nebuliser that produces particles small enough to penetrate the alveoli of the lungs. Nebulised drugs cannot penetrate granulomas/large areas of infection so syetemic anti-biotics will also be required (unless asper). Recovery depends on what is causing the problem and how long it has been present, some birds may never recover.

Hi,
More informations from the x-ray pictures: looks like a pneumonia because there is a increasment of parabronchic dentities; general opaqueness of air sacs, white zones on air sacs being thickened, big vessels in lungs and heart, endocardy, granules on lungs.
I have a nebuliser and give Gomenol, chloramphénicol, gentamycin twice a day.
Don't know the cause of the problem. I live in frensh Guiana, a hot and very wet country, all the year. Had a kestrel that developed the same problem I think, and he stayed tired several years before he died. Broadwings seems more resistant. Peregrine migrates until frensh Guiana.
Thank you,
Vincent.

[Sprout]

White zones in air sac's could be asper, would be worth endoscoping the airsac's for a diagnosis. Antibiotics potentially can make asper worse although nebulising will help. I use a dilute solution of F10, works well with mild asper and other infections.

[Fly The Snipe]

White zones in air sac's could be asper, would be worth endoscoping the airsac's for a diagnosis. Antibiotics potentially can make asper worse although nebulising will help. I use a dilute solution of F10, works well with mild asper and other infections.

Hi,
What active principle is contained in F10. I am not sure we can find F10 in French Guiana. Is it taken under nebulisation?
I have to finish the medication begun against Pneumonia, and I will try something against asper.
Thanks,
Vincent.

[Sprout]

F10 contains quaternary ammonium and biguanidine compounds. You should be order to order it on-line, plenty of places selling it. Might be worth e-mailing them see if they will post to you.

[Fly The Snipe]

Thank you Sprout!
Vincent.

[Misty]

to sprout:supz:
I am sooo slow. i have only just found this thread. what a breath of fresh air. absolutely brill!!! many many thanks for taking the time and trouble with this. It will be my main reading from now on.
great - really great:supz: :supz: :supz:

[Skeld]

Excellent thread Sprout!!! I would like to publicly thank you for the prompt advice you gave my wife and I when we took in a rescue merlin earlier this year. THANKS

[Blondie]

I too would like to say what a brilliant thread.
Shame not so many members have read it - from some of the discussions in other areas of the forum they might just learn a thing or too - certainly the benefits of early diagnosis and treatment. I for one would always see the best vet available at the earliest possible time - it sure does make the difference between life and death as these raptors can go 'off' damn quick!

[Sprout]

cheers guys, anything I can do to help

[BrianM]

any thoughts on , "vet wound powder" karl ,pros ,cons??

[Sprout]

any thoughts on , "vet wound powder" karl ,pros ,cons??

Don't like it personally. Find it jyst makes a mess of any wound, clogs up blood, skin and feathers. If there is a large open wound it is better keeping it clean and open and using something that stimulates granulation, covering with systemic antibiotics rather than using wound powders

[Fly The Snipe]

Hi Sprout,

I found F10 on the website "Vet Products Online Product Info": a container of 5 liters! Is it this kind of product?

My tiercel goes better but I fear he can bear a weight cut.

Thanks,

Vincent.

[Sprout]

Hi Sprout,

I found F10 on the website "Vet Products Online Product Info": a container of 5 liters! Is it this kind of product?

My tiercel goes better but I fear he can bear a weight cut.

Thanks,

Vincent.

PM me your link and I'll have a look on it for the right stuff. I think they do a specialised nebulisation solution, but you can still use the normal stuff diluted correctly. Its not cheap so 5L will cost you a pretty penny, sure they do it in smaller amounts

[OutFlying]

Don't like it personally. Find it jyst makes a mess of any wound, clogs up blood, skin and feathers. If there is a large open wound it is better keeping it clean and open and using something that stimulates granulation, covering with systemic antibiotics rather than using wound powders

What brand name would you recommend that is readily obtainable.

Thanks Jim.

[Kentish Falconry]

PM me your link and I'll have a look on it for the right stuff. I think they do a specialised nebulisation solution, but you can still use the normal stuff diluted correctly. Its not cheap so 5L will cost you a pretty penny, sure they do it in smaller amounts

Quite right Carl they do a 500 Ml and 1 litre bottles as well. For nebulising we use F10SC at a 2% Solution for 15 mins about 3 or 4 times a day, works for us but if in doubt contact John at Health and Hygene SA they manufacture it and have all the tests carried out.
PM me for futher details or I can paste a link for you in the morning.
Terry

[Fly The Snipe]

[QUOTE=Sprout;411096]PM me your link and I'll have a look on it for the right stuff.

http://vetproductsonline.com/productinfo.asp?productcode=1577

[Sprout]

http://www.f10biocare.co.uk/shop1.html

F10sc is what you want for the nebuliser.

[Fly The Snipe]

http://www.f10biocare.co.uk/shop1.html

F10sc is what you want for the nebuliser.

Thank you Sprout. I already sent a mail to them.
Vincent.

[Fly The Snipe]

X Ray picture.

[LadyHawk2006]

Sprout I know it's difficult to describe a procedure with text only, but using a Harris as an example, how far approximately does a crop tube need to go into the crop, or doesn't it matter as long as it goes in. I'm going on a Neil forbes day course in a few weeks, so will hopefully get some hands on then, but have been wondering about crop tubing for a while, as it seems a very important issue.

Thanks
Simon

HI I was wondering if you had any more information about the courses run by Neil Forbes and how i go about getting on one. Thankyou

[Sprout]

HI I was wondering if you had any more information about the courses run by Neil Forbes and how i go about getting on one. Thankyou

Sorry no, you are better phoning Great Western Referrals and asking them directly.

[1720Chick]

From the outside of the bird, roughly measure from the beak, down to where you feel the crop, with the tube,mark the tube if you prefer.
You will probably get to practice on dead birds at the Forbes lecture. It's a life saving proceedure and one that you will quickly get a feel for.

[Harris]

HI I was wondering if you had any more information about the courses run by Neil Forbes and how i go about getting on one. Thankyou

Hi, as Sprout said contact Great western refferals direct.

http://www.gwreferrals.com/index.asp

[DrNorm]

Just a line in support of using a crop tube. As a falconer, I work with various council park education organisations, and local vets often ask me to find release sites for rescued birds of prey and owls. Up to a few days ago it was a very successful year (2006) for my first-aid for injured birds, of which all but one were released after crop-tubing and a rest in a warm dark place. The one, a blind owl is now in a breeding program after getting an A10. I went on a Niel Forbes’ course some time ago, where I crop-tubed and splinted many fractures on dead pigeons (non recovered).
Last week I was called to a torpid buzzard that from the look of the beak had been digging for worms. From its feet, I think it was a male, but it only weighed 490gm (less than 1lb 1oz in falconry language). Despite crop-feeding with warm glucose saline it died after a few hours.
On the happier note, from my 2006 statistics, crop-tubing is great first-aid when you can’t get straight to your vet.

[Leo 1]

Quite right Carl they do a 500 Ml and 1 litre bottles as well. For nebulising we use F10SC at a 2% Solution for 15 mins about 3 or 4 times a day, works for us but if in doubt contact John at Health and Hygene SA they manufacture it and have all the tests carried out.
PM me for futher details or I can paste a link for you in the morning.
Terry

hi can u help me my mhh as lost a tallon and he is bleding i have cleand it and put wuand pawder on but it is still bleding what con i do i carnt get 2 a vets till 2moz
pm me ple

[Harris]

hi can u help me my mhh as lost a tallon and he is bleding i have cleand it and put wuand pawder on but it is still bleding what con i do i carnt get 2 a vets till 2moz
pm me ple


I have heard you can use clear nail varnish to seal it, but check with some one first!!!

[Sprout]

BROKEN NAILS

First of all you need to assess what is broken, has the nail come off entirely or is it split?? If split then measures should be taken to prevent the split enlarging (eg taping across the split etc?? or covering with a substance called newskin which can be got from a pharmacy). If the nail has been removed or needs removing as it is too loose then it wille xpose the quick and potentially be painful and haemorrhage quite a bit. Everyone should carry a caustic pencil or potassium permanganate in their first aid kit to stem such haemorrhage. The underlying quick is very sensitive and needs protecting, either by dressing with granuflex or again coating with new skin (better than nail varnish as not alcohol based) to prevent it drying out. Either way the bird should probably be rested and not flown to prevent aggravation of the wound. Ideally antibiotics should be used to prevent secondary infection.
Depending on what damage to the germinal epithelium has occured will affect how/if the nail re-grows - they may not necessarily re-grow normally but even if they don;t doesn't always affect the birds performance (depends on species/use/which toe). It can take months for the new nail to re-grow, feeding a good diet and possibly supplementing with biotin will help nail re-growth.

[Leo 1]

BROKEN NAILS

First of all you need to assess what is broken, has the nail come off entirely or is it split?? If split then measures should be taken to prevent the split enlarging (eg taping across the split etc?? or covering with a substance called newskin which can be got from a pharmacy). If the nail has been removed or needs removing as it is too loose then it wille xpose the quick and potentially be painful and haemorrhage quite a bit. Everyone should carry a caustic pencil or potassium permanganate in their first aid kit to stem such haemorrhage. The underlying quick is very sensitive and needs protecting, either by dressing with granuflex or again coating with new skin (better than nail varnish as not alcohol based) to prevent it drying out. Either way the bird should probably be rested and not flown to prevent aggravation of the wound. Ideally antibiotics should be used to prevent secondary infection.
Depending on what damage to the germinal epithelium has occured will affect how/if the nail re-grows - they may not necessarily re-grow normally but even if they don;t doesn't always affect the birds performance (depends on species/use/which toe). It can take months for the new nail to re-grow, feeding a good diet and possibly supplementing with biotin will help nail re-growth.
ok thanx will do

[dgiarde1@nycap.rr.com]

thank you for the info

[dgiarde1@nycap.rr.com]

thanks again for your help. she died on this morning, her breathing was short and fast, i believe that asper was the main problem.

[Leo 1]

thanks again for your help. she died on this morning, her breathing was short and fast, i believe that asper was the main problem.

i am sorry two hear that

[Taowolf]

Sprout you are a good man i wish you well for 2007. Take care and keep up the good work.:supz:

[Fly The Snipe]

Hi Sprout,
Some news of my pere tiercel, that developped a pneumonia.
He is cured but has still difficulties to breath when he makes an extra (air sacs are thick?).
He eats a lot and alone. I still make him nebulisation every 2 days with essencial oils and give stamina every day.
No F10, the seller did not find interesting to send the product to South America, I think.
Best whishes,
Vincent.

[Sprout]

Hi Sprout,
Some news of my pere tiercel, that developped a pneumonia.
He is cured but has still difficulties to breath when he makes an extra (air sacs are thick?).
He eats a lot and alone. I still make him nebulisation every 2 days with essencial oils and give stamina every day.
No F10, the seller did not find interesting to send the product to South America, I think.
Best whishes,
Vincent.

Do you have any frinds in Europe who could buy it and post it to you???

[Fly The Snipe]

I am looking for...
Please don't forget your thread on snipe hunting.
Vincent.

[Sprout]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??

[Pendleside]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??

very useful . when can i order a copy ?:supz: :supz:

[Sarah J]

very useful . when can i order a copy ?:supz: :supz:

I concur!! :yawinkle:

[Pendleside]

I concur!! :yawinkle:

WHAT ? ? ?

you mean you will have to order a copy too ?

vets.....they dont miss a trick where their wallets concerned !!! :lol: :lol:

[Sarah J]

WHAT ? ? ?

you mean you will have to order a copy too ?

vets.....they dont miss a trick where their wallets concerned !!! :lol: :lol:


God no!! Being the wife means i get my copy for free lol. The cost of publishing will probably come out of my bank account :lol:

[Pendleside]

God no!! Being the wife means i get my copy for free lol. The cost of publishing will probably come out of my bank account :lol:

if you are funding the publication fees then insist on doing the proof reading .
then YOU can charge HIM a consultation fee . :supz:
see how he likes it . :lol:
that would certainly be a first . :lol:

[Sarah J]

if you are funding the publication fees then insist on doing the proof reading .
then YOU can charge HIM a consultation fee . :supz:
see how he likes it . :lol:
that would certainly be a first . :lol:

pmsl

[Sprout]

if you are funding the publication fees then insist on doing the proof reading .
then YOU can charge HIM a consultation fee . :supz:
see how he likes it . :lol:
that would certainly be a first . :lol:

Read the dumb blond thread!!!
Her speak and spell hasn't arrived yet

[Pendleside]

Read the dumb blond thread!!!
Her speak and spell hasn't arrived yet

looks like tiggs got the job then .:supz: :supz:

[Misty]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??

back on thread, I would certainly like a copy (signed first edition, obviously)

[Claire]

I'd buy it :D

[Hound]

looks like tiggs got the job then .:supz: :supz:

pmsl:supz:

[TimDog80]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??
would definatly but a copy!!!... be handy to have a nice section (with photos)on first aid in the field as im sure we will all benefit by it in some way:D

[Stealth]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??

One copy for me please, signed:lol:

Surely there are many on here that could contribute to material:yawinkle:

[Sprout]

OK, will start wheels moving, but suspect it will take a while, especially to get the photos. Thanks.
Please, no more posts on this thread - leave it for the first aid so it doesn't get clogged up with this. Many thanks. Keep you posted. If any of you are local and have medical conditions of your hawks I may PM you if ok to come and take photos????

[Newbie FHH]

Can you tell me what to look out for with electrocution? our FHH got electrocuted she fell to the ground, was very confused and disorientated. By the time we got her home she was calm and feeding but her wing was drooping. The next morning her wing was still down but she was back to her normal self. By the end of the day the wing looked back to normal.

We can't see any marks on the wing and all the feathers are still where they should be. Is she just a very lucky bird or do we need to keep an eye on her feather wise ie durin the moult??

Thank you

[Sprout]

Can you tell me what to look out for with electrocution? our FHH got electrocuted she fell to the ground, was very confused and disorientated. By the time we got her home she was calm and feeding but her wing was drooping. The next morning her wing was still down but she was back to her normal self. By the end of the day the wing looked back to normal.

We can't see any marks on the wing and all the feathers are still where they should be. Is she just a very lucky bird or do we need to keep an eye on her feather wise ie durin the moult??

Thank you

If the bird survives the electric shock, its a case of treating symptomatically - keeping the bird warm, quiet. If conscious then crop tube a glucose/electrolyte solution. Potentially you can get electrical burns, possibly resulting in loss of extremities ie wing tips/digits etc if severe enough, however, there is little you can do - just treat symptomatically for whatever wounds are there.

[Fly The Snipe]

Hi Sprout,
Are there secondary effects with F10 nebulisations?
My tiercel stopped to eat after such a nebulisation but I don't know if there is a consequence. It seems the food can't join the stomach.
According to you?
Thanks,
Vincent.

Proportions: 2 drops of F10 for one centimeter of water.

[Sprout]

Hi Sprout,
Are there secondary effects with F10 nebulisations?
My tiercel stopped to eat after such a nebulisation but I don't know if there is a consequence. It seems the food can't join the stomach.
According to you?
Thanks,
Vincent.

Proportions: 2 drops of F10 for one centimeter of water.

I've never encountered a problem and know no one else who has. Have you used the correct dilution for the formulation you have?

[Fly The Snipe]

I think Sprout. 1 for 500, as written on the notice.
Regards,

[Rob999]

i was unable to attend Neil Forbes course last Oct due to illness, but had to take an injurred wild Buzzard there on sunday, went through alot of crucial first aid eg, crop feeding with vet on call on the day. will def be signing up for a day course asap and bought a 1st aid kit from them for approx 24 pound. this had lectade, glucose, splint, bandage, space blanket, potassium for open wounds(to stop bleeding, but this does get messy) nu-gel for wounds, tweezers, tubing, syringe, and more (including instructions.) can't fault them............and lucky that fairly close to home. you can find 1st aid kits from almost anywhere, IBR, and equipment suppliers and vets, also added Aloe Vera gel for those little nicks occasionally encountered.
for us though supermarkets do the alcohol gel that kills 99% of germs for a couple of quid, perfect for stoping infections.

if you do administer 1st aid........keep a record so life is def easier at the vets, quicker treament for your bird. hope this helps:yawinkle:

[Ben C]

What about liquid skin??

[Sprout]

What about liquid skin??

I've used it a few times to cover abrasions that keep getting knocked and also to cover the quick when talons have been damaged - provides some protection. But must insure it is clean and not contaminated prior to applying otherwise infection is sealed in too.

[Ben C]

I suppose (as GAZ wrote) the same goes for the silver nitrate as well.

[Fly The Snipe]

Hi Sprout,

Some news:
Now the bird is higher in weight (from 535 gr three days ago to 575 gr this morning).
No breathe difficulties at all (thank you F10?).
But he sleeps all the day.
I gave Spartrix, Daktarin.
The only vet we have in F.Guiana was busy when I went.

Vincent,

[Sprout]

Hi Sprout,

Some news:
Now the bird is higher in weight (from 535 gr three days ago to 575 gr this morning).
No breathe difficulties at all (thank you F10?).
But he sleeps all the day.
I gave Spartrix, Daktarin.
The only vet we have in F.Guiana was busy when I went.

Vincent,

Still very weakened then to be sleeping. Have any blood tests been done??

[Rob999]

Karl............absolutely EXCELENT:supz:

thank you for all your info on son many threads.........and please count me in for a book when it's done. :supz:
highest regards Rob:-D

[Hound]

i was unable to attend Neil Forbes course last Oct due to illness, but had to take an injurred wild Buzzard there on sunday, went through alot of crucial first aid eg, crop feeding with vet on call on the day. will def be signing up for a day course asap and bought a 1st aid kit from them for approx 24 pound. this had lectade, glucose, splint, bandage, space blanket, potassium for open wounds(to stop bleeding, but this does get messy) nu-gel for wounds, tweezers, tubing, syringe, and more (including instructions.) can't fault them............and lucky that fairly close to home. you can find 1st aid kits from almost anywhere, IBR, and equipment suppliers and vets, also added Aloe Vera gel for those little nicks occasionally encountered.
for us though supermarkets do the alcohol gel that kills 99% of germs for a couple of quid, perfect for stoping infections.

if you do administer 1st aid........keep a record so life is def easier at the vets, quicker treament for your bird. hope this helps:yawinkle:

i went on that course. my boss sent me there as through work i have to go on so many courses a year, i have been doing falconry for years and i learnt alot its well worth going

[Stu Bailey]

Attented a BOP welfare and first aid course ran by Neil Forbes...

Invaluble,learned so much.

Good thread mate.....

[Dave G]

:supz: great thread and some very good injuries and infections covered and answered by our vet sprout

[Fly The Snipe]

Still very weakened then to be sleeping. Have any blood tests been done??

I contacted my vet, who is ready to do a blood test, but which test and analysis?
We are not able to do all the tests in French Guiana.
regards,

[Sprout]

I contacted my vet, who is ready to do a blood test, but which test and analysis?
We are not able to do all the tests in French Guiana.
regards,

Just basic health profile tests - check liver, kidneys, proteins etc and haemotology.

[Fly The Snipe]

Thank you,
Which quantity of blood taken?
Regards,

[Lucas]

here is a link to crop tubing ... hope it helps :)

http://www.pigeoncote.com/images/feeding.jpg



thanks


Kurt

[figs]

emergancy- vet needed in this area as my dird has broken his humerus. please help. 07890653456

[Harris]

emergancy- vet needed in this area as my dird has broken his humerus. please help. 07890653456


Have you tried your local vet, they should have 24hr cover. most vets should be able to deal with a broken wing.

Have you strapped the wing up?

[Sprout]

emergancy- vet needed in this area as my dird has broken his humerus. please help. 07890653456

Probably Birch Heath vets in Tarporley, Cheshire are your closest that I know of and would trust.
Just a reminder to everyone though - find a vet and build a relationship with them before an emergency arises, saves a hell of a lot of hassle and stress!!

[Misty]

How is the bird?

[CopperBarn]

hope your bird is ok figs.

a question for sprout:

I have 2 european barns, 11 and 12 years old. one of them has the worst feather condition ever, the other one is feather perfect.

Just thought I would ask incase there is something i have missed, or maybe something more serious.

They are both hens, and are aviary birds. They always have access to clean bathing and drinking water. Their avairy is a converted shed with a 12 ft flight attached so they always have appropriate shelter when the weather turns bad ( good old england). I feed them DOC, rat pups, and mice, with a tiny dash of vitamin supplement as they are gettin on a bit.

I seem to be doing everything correctly, so why does one have such awful feathers? And its not just the season, shes had it since i got her last year. Ive checked for mites and fleas and after a frontline on them and their accomodation, all was well.

Everything else about her is fine, good feet, nice colour inside her mouth, bright eyes and good weight.
Is it maybe because she just isnt a big preener?

[Sprout]

hope your bird is ok figs.

a question for sprout:

I have 2 european barns, 11 and 12 years old. one of them has the worst feather condition ever, the other one is feather perfect.

Just thought I would ask incase there is something i have missed, or maybe something more serious.

They are both hens, and are aviary birds. They always have access to clean bathing and drinking water. Their avairy is a converted shed with a 12 ft flight attached so they always have appropriate shelter when the weather turns bad ( good old england). I feed them DOC, rat pups, and mice, with a tiny dash of vitamin supplement as they are gettin on a bit.

I seem to be doing everything correctly, so why does one have such awful feathers? And its not just the season, shes had it since i got her last year. Ive checked for mites and fleas and after a frontline on them and their accomodation, all was well.

Everything else about her is fine, good feet, nice colour inside her mouth, bright eyes and good weight.
Is it maybe because she just isnt a big preener?

To check for mites you need to check at night with a torch - red mites tend to come out then. Also, there is no point just treating the bird for this, the housing needs treatment too. Although mites don;t cause anywhere enar as many problems as people think (or as commonly). Have you any pics of the feather damage?? MIght help narrow it down - as there are dozens of causes!!

[Jiff]

on this point i spray my kennel the ferret accomodation and the aivery about once a month with duramitex at this time of year, not only kills what you cant see but deters them from setting up camp!

[CopperBarn]

where can u get duramitex from?

[Misty]

http://www.hyperdrug.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DUR140&gclid=CJyx-KP5xowCFQrnQgod7Xzcag

[Kevin Massey]

Just a reminder to everyone though - find a vet and build a relationship with them before an emergency arises, saves a hell of a lot of hassle and stress!!

As always some of the best advice given on the forum...

How many times do we see that people are un-prepared ...and dont sorce out the relevent information untill we are desperate and in need of it.

[Rob999]

didn't see this until i sent in thread ref: 1st aid course. with N Forbes.
just saying how good it was, but likewise brilliant idea to get info on here aswell.
hope not offended. and respect also to you:-)

[GrimsbyDragon]

[QUOTE=Sprout;354817]I have been asked to start a post on emergency first aid, so if anyone has anything specific to ask or want to know then ask away or PM me.

Just the job! lol, I posted the following earlier in a different forum

Hello everyone, I am new to falconry, and in the process of setting everything up before i get my first bird, i am looking to get a Harris Hawk, I have just about everything i need now, except for the medicine cupboard, but the amount and choice of mite powders, de-wormer's etc seems over whelming, so i need to ask
as to which is the "must have's" for the first aid cupboard, and which is the best brands, what to avoid ie what not to have in you cupboard and finally anything easily overlooked that should rearly be in there too.

Well so far i have been recommended the following:-

Johnson's mite spray
Panicure de-wormer
neats foot oil

also from what i have read so far i think i should have:-

files for beak and talons
feather straighteners
scisors
scalpel
curved sail needle

And the apprentice site says:-


Medicines Topicals
Antacid preparation (TUMS) Aloe Vera
Benadryl Allergy Antiseptic towelettes or wash
Pepto-Bismol Artificial tears
Band-aids
Cornstarch
Neosporin Ointment
Rubbing alcohol and alcohol swabs
Tissue glue
KY Jelly


Tools Dressings Other
Penlight Cotton balls Favorite food
Nail clippers Gauze pads Pedialyte (or
generic equivalent)
Nail file Hot/cold pack Paper towels
Needle-nose pliers Popsicle sticks or tongue depressors Sterile water
Rubber gloves Q-Tips Squirt bottle filled with
water
Scissors Vet Wrap or Paper Tape Water and cup
Stockinette or sock
Syringes
Towel
Tweezers
Wire cutters
Pill cutter and crusher
Betadine or Hibitane (chlorhexidine) - A disinfectant. Do NOT use hydrogen peroxide since it can cause tissue injury.

Clotisol - Blood clotting gel, when applied to a minor wound, feather follicle, bleeding talon or beak, will quickly and safely stop bleeding. It is safer and less caustic than clotting powders or sticks, and may be applied with cotton-tipped applicators. Avoid getting on mucus membranes (eye or lid, mouth or cloaca).

Eye dropper

Goo Gone - Used to cut through grease or any substance that may be stuck to the bird's skin or feathers.

Kaopectate

Lactated Ringer's solution - Used for IV rehydrating of dehydrated avians and flushing wounds. Can give subcutaneous Lacated Ringer's solution if a bird is dehydrated or in shock. (Available from your Veterinarian)

Latex tubing - To be used as directed by your avian veterinarian, to insert into the crop to administer medication, fluids, hand-feeding formula, to flush out a crop that won't empty, to flush cool water into a crop immediately after a crop burn is discovered. If you are not familiar with these procedures, discuss them with your avian vet before you have an emergency so that you may learn the proper techniques.

Neck brace - Gray foam in a circle, to be used to keep a bird from chewing feathers or mutilating flesh, cut to length to prevent a bird from bending neck down to bite skin or feathers, then tape, make sure bird can access food and water with neck brace in place.

Ophthalmic ointment - For scratched eyes, minor conjunctivitis.

Povidone iodine swab - May be used to clean and treat a wound, as directed by your avian veterinarian.

Tegaderm - Excellent for covering certain types of open wounds. Helps healing for burns and certain open wounds. Encourages granulation (healing/scabbing).

Sterile lubricant - To be used as directed by your vet to cover an open wound (to keep it moist and prevent infection).

Sterile surgical blade - To be used as directed by your avian vet, can cut fibers tied around toes, etc.

Suturing materials (surgical needles and thread) - Use only if you know what you are doing, or to save a bird's life. Take to veterinarian ASAP.

Is this a conclusive list or is there more to add?

Thanks in advance
Andy

[Sprout]

[QUOTE=Sprout;354817]I have been asked to start a post on emergency first aid, so if anyone has anything specific to ask or want to know then ask away or PM me.

Just the job! lol, I posted the following earlier in a different forum

Hello everyone, I am new to falconry, and in the process of setting everything up before i get my first bird, i am looking to get a Harris Hawk, I have just about everything i need now, except for the medicine cupboard, but the amount and choice of mite powders, de-wormer's etc seems over whelming, so i need to ask
as to which is the "must have's" for the first aid cupboard, and which is the best brands, what to avoid ie what not to have in you cupboard and finally anything easily overlooked that should rearly be in there too.

Well so far i have been recommended the following:-

Johnson's mite spray
Panicure de-wormer
neats foot oil

also from what i have read so far i think i should have:-

files for beak and talons
feather straighteners
scisors
scalpel
curved sail needle

And the apprentice site says:-


Medicines Topicals
Antacid preparation (TUMS) Aloe Vera
Benadryl Allergy Antiseptic towelettes or wash
Pepto-Bismol Artificial tears
Band-aids
Cornstarch
Neosporin Ointment
Rubbing alcohol and alcohol swabs
Tissue glue
KY Jelly


Tools Dressings Other
Penlight Cotton balls Favorite food
Nail clippers Gauze pads Pedialyte (or
generic equivalent)
Nail file Hot/cold pack Paper towels
Needle-nose pliers Popsicle sticks or tongue depressors Sterile water
Rubber gloves Q-Tips Squirt bottle filled with
water
Scissors Vet Wrap or Paper Tape Water and cup
Stockinette or sock
Syringes
Towel
Tweezers
Wire cutters
Pill cutter and crusher
Betadine or Hibitane (chlorhexidine) - A disinfectant. Do NOT use hydrogen peroxide since it can cause tissue injury.

Clotisol - Blood clotting gel, when applied to a minor wound, feather follicle, bleeding talon or beak, will quickly and safely stop bleeding. It is safer and less caustic than clotting powders or sticks, and may be applied with cotton-tipped applicators. Avoid getting on mucus membranes (eye or lid, mouth or cloaca).

Eye dropper

Goo Gone - Used to cut through grease or any substance that may be stuck to the bird's skin or feathers.

Kaopectate

Lactated Ringer's solution - Used for IV rehydrating of dehydrated avians and flushing wounds. Can give subcutaneous Lacated Ringer's solution if a bird is dehydrated or in shock. (Available from your Veterinarian)

Latex tubing - To be used as directed by your avian veterinarian, to insert into the crop to administer medication, fluids, hand-feeding formula, to flush out a crop that won't empty, to flush cool water into a crop immediately after a crop burn is discovered. If you are not familiar with these procedures, discuss them with your avian vet before you have an emergency so that you may learn the proper techniques.

Neck brace - Gray foam in a circle, to be used to keep a bird from chewing feathers or mutilating flesh, cut to length to prevent a bird from bending neck down to bite skin or feathers, then tape, make sure bird can access food and water with neck brace in place.

Ophthalmic ointment - For scratched eyes, minor conjunctivitis.

Povidone iodine swab - May be used to clean and treat a wound, as directed by your avian veterinarian.

Tegaderm - Excellent for covering certain types of open wounds. Helps healing for burns and certain open wounds. Encourages granulation (healing/scabbing).

Sterile lubricant - To be used as directed by your vet to cover an open wound (to keep it moist and prevent infection).

Sterile surgical blade - To be used as directed by your avian vet, can cut fibers tied around toes, etc.

Suturing materials (surgical needles and thread) - Use only if you know what you are doing, or to save a bird's life. Take to veterinarian ASAP.

Is this a conclusive list or is there more to add?

Thanks in advance
Andy

Christ!!!! Starting your own surgery???? Forget 99% of it. All you need is a crop tube (and know how to use it), an electrolyte/glucose solution, an antiseptic eg povidone-iodine and a cautery pencil or potassium permanganate.The rest is superfluous and a waste of money. Have what you need for emergencies, the rest can be bought as/when/if required based on advice from someone more qualified.

[Gaz]

:mrgreen: :finga: ..MARKUS WELBY...M.D. :finga: :mrgreen:

[Sirius]

Is this a conclusive list or is there more to add?

Thanks in advance
Andy

Andy, top stuff, and a credit to you for the detail you've gone into but, after researching all of that and listing it out, I love the irony in your last sentence!

:supz:
Cheers, Adi

[Graham C]

you can pick yourself up a good first aid kit at www.gallowayfalconry.co.uk amongst other things.

[judy]

Thankyou, this is a very interesting thread. I think I will get some syringes and tubing from work (dont ask!) in case we ever need to use them :-)

[Hawk-Witch]

brilliant thread, have enjoyed reading it. I would buy the book too:supz:

[ParaButeo78]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??

Put me down for a book, too.
I don't think it would be a waste of time, quite the opposite. Enough books on health out there, but first aid and disease prevention are usually not as well covered as they could be.
I'm sure people on here can help with getting the pics?

[Golden Hayabusa]

That's a great set of kit!:supz: :goodman:
is it possible to have retail sales over at United states too ? or is it already out there...:yawinkle: if so, plz post the site adress for u.s. costomers.

[Pascoe]

Put me down for a book, too.
I don't think it would be a waste of time, quite the opposite. Enough books on health out there, but first aid and disease prevention are usually not as well covered as they could be.
I'm sure people on here can help with getting the pics?

I totally agree with ParaButeo... If you do compile one, put me down for one also =]... I should say a lot of the information will be universal to a degree through long wings, short wings and owls...
As I look after 19 of the things this book would be a god send...LoL...

Cheers...

[Harris]

I think the book is an excellent idea and will buy one my self. But I would strongly reccomend doing the Neil Forbes Raptor Health and Management day course. It covers everything from Emergency First Aid right through to disease and prevention, and just about everything else in between. You also get a 51 page hand out or (PDF file) covering everything from the day. An invaluable course and a great source of info.. Saved my birds life!! :yawinkle:

[Stoke@Rugby]

Cracking thread, great read.

[Mark]

Hi there. I am new to the whole falconry and hawking thing, kinda been dropped into it all of a sudden.
I am working in Darfur, Sudan, where i run a group of clinics. About 3 1/2 weeks ago i was brought, by one of my colleagues, a Yellow-billed kite with an injured wing. The bird was quite bedraggled and weak. I managed to sneak a few x-rays and found that the bird appeared to have been shot, with a badly comminuted fracture of the left ulna, and a 'bullet' (possibly 9mm calibre) sitting in its left breast. I was unable to find the breast wound on closer physiacl examination and the bullet did not appear to have hit anything vital so we elected to leave it in place for the time being.
I contacted an animal rehabilitation centre back in South Africa, and they have been giving me some advice which has helped a lot, but i think it's time to pick the brains of people that live with these wonderful birds.
I strapped the wing (figure 8 dressing) and started about feeding the bird. I also put it on a course of antibiotics (cephalexin 25mg tds). There was a guy up here who had soem experience with falconry and he fashioned me some jesses and elmaries out of leather, unfortunatley he has left the region now.
The bird is definatley an older adult, and most likely female, and very amicable once on the glove (with very little manning being done), although still a bit nervous. It lets me fiddle amongst its feathers and under its wings with hardly a nip. Now, my objective is not to get the bird to a level where i can do hawking with it, but rather to get it strong enough to release back into one of the huge wild flocks (100-300 birds) we have here.
I am a bit concerned about two things:
1- I have re-xrayed the wing after being strapped for three weeks, and i am not too sure whether the bones have knitted sufficiently for me to allow the bird to start extending the wing. The fracture has healed pretty well, but i am more of a people-vet so not too sure how stable the site needs to be (if any of you are vets or good at bird x-rays i will gladly email you the pictures)
2- i saw an earlier post about lead poisoning, this bird is putting out a lot of really green stools. almost like the 'hundred year old' chinese eggs... should i remove the bullet, which seems to have moved anteriorly and feels like it is lying reasonably subcutaneously? i do have several drugs at my disposal which might be safe to use on birds (lignocaine, propofyl, fentanyl, diazepam, midazolam etc) and i do not think it would be a hugely technical procedure from looking closer at the site. Unfortunately there is not even a semblance of veterinary care here so the only drugs i have are human-use ones.
Its a really beautiful bird, and i am really hoping that it will be fully rehabilitated, otherwise i might be faced with the terrible prospect of euthanasia.
If any of you have any advice i would really appreciate it
thanks

[PenelopeP]

Hi there. I am new to the whole falconry and hawking thing, kinda been dropped into it all of a sudden.
I am working in Darfur, Sudan, where i run a group of clinics. About 3 1/2 weeks ago i was brought, by one of my colleagues, a Yellow-billed kite with an injured wing. The bird was quite bedraggled and weak. I managed to sneak a few x-rays and found that the bird appeared to have been shot, with a badly comminuted fracture of the left ulna, and a 'bullet' (possibly 9mm calibre) sitting in its left breast. I was unable to find the breast wound on closer physiacl examination and the bullet did not appear to have hit anything vital so we elected to leave it in place for the time being.
I contacted an animal rehabilitation centre back in South Africa, and they have been giving me some advice which has helped a lot, but i think it's time to pick the brains of people that live with these wonderful birds.
I strapped the wing (figure 8 dressing) and started about feeding the bird. I also put it on a course of antibiotics (cephalexin 25mg tds). There was a guy up here who had soem experience with falconry and he fashioned me some jesses and elmaries out of leather, unfortunatley he has left the region now.
The bird is definatley an older adult, and most likely female, and very amicable once on the glove (with very little manning being done), although still a bit nervous. It lets me fiddle amongst its feathers and under its wings with hardly a nip. Now, my objective is not to get the bird to a level where i can do hawking with it, but rather to get it strong enough to release back into one of the huge wild flocks (100-300 birds) we have here.
I am a bit concerned about two things:
1- I have re-xrayed the wing after being strapped for three weeks, and i am not too sure whether the bones have knitted sufficiently for me to allow the bird to start extending the wing. The fracture has healed pretty well, but i am more of a people-vet so not too sure how stable the site needs to be (if any of you are vets or good at bird x-rays i will gladly email you the pictures)
2- i saw an earlier post about lead poisoning, this bird is putting out a lot of really green stools. almost like the 'hundred year old' chinese eggs... should i remove the bullet, which seems to have moved anteriorly and feels like it is lying reasonably subcutaneously? i do have several drugs at my disposal which might be safe to use on birds (lignocaine, propofyl, fentanyl, diazepam, midazolam etc) and i do not think it would be a hugely technical procedure from looking closer at the site. Unfortunately there is not even a semblance of veterinary care here so the only drugs i have are human-use ones.
Its a really beautiful bird, and i am really hoping that it will be fully rehabilitated, otherwise i might be faced with the terrible prospect of euthanasia.
If any of you have any advice i would really appreciate it
thanks

I really hope you get the help you're asking for and manage to rehibilitate this bird and release it back into the wild.

Well Done for what you are doing :supz:

[MRodway]

dear mark,

if you can feel a firm fibrous callous over the fracture site it should be strong enough now to come out of the binding. Most birds heal pretty quick. You won't necessarily get radiographic calcification of the fracture this early so don't rely on xrays or you will be strapping the bird up for weeks still. I wouldn't test it too vigorously at this stage either.

As far as lead poisoning from a bullet. i wouldn't worry too much. We tend to leave them alone. Its only lead in the abdomen and gizzard that tends to cause neurological signs.

Good Luck - its great what you are trying to do.

Mike

[Sprout]

Hi there. I am new to the whole falconry and hawking thing, kinda been dropped into it all of a sudden.
I am working in Darfur, Sudan, where i run a group of clinics. About 3 1/2 weeks ago i was brought, by one of my colleagues, a Yellow-billed kite with an injured wing. The bird was quite bedraggled and weak. I managed to sneak a few x-rays and found that the bird appeared to have been shot, with a badly comminuted fracture of the left ulna, and a 'bullet' (possibly 9mm calibre) sitting in its left breast. I was unable to find the breast wound on closer physiacl examination and the bullet did not appear to have hit anything vital so we elected to leave it in place for the time being.
I contacted an animal rehabilitation centre back in South Africa, and they have been giving me some advice which has helped a lot, but i think it's time to pick the brains of people that live with these wonderful birds.
I strapped the wing (figure 8 dressing) and started about feeding the bird. I also put it on a course of antibiotics (cephalexin 25mg tds). There was a guy up here who had soem experience with falconry and he fashioned me some jesses and elmaries out of leather, unfortunatley he has left the region now.
The bird is definatley an older adult, and most likely female, and very amicable once on the glove (with very little manning being done), although still a bit nervous. It lets me fiddle amongst its feathers and under its wings with hardly a nip. Now, my objective is not to get the bird to a level where i can do hawking with it, but rather to get it strong enough to release back into one of the huge wild flocks (100-300 birds) we have here.
I am a bit concerned about two things:
1- I have re-xrayed the wing after being strapped for three weeks, and i am not too sure whether the bones have knitted sufficiently for me to allow the bird to start extending the wing. The fracture has healed pretty well, but i am more of a people-vet so not too sure how stable the site needs to be (if any of you are vets or good at bird x-rays i will gladly email you the pictures)
2- i saw an earlier post about lead poisoning, this bird is putting out a lot of really green stools. almost like the 'hundred year old' chinese eggs... should i remove the bullet, which seems to have moved anteriorly and feels like it is lying reasonably subcutaneously? i do have several drugs at my disposal which might be safe to use on birds (lignocaine, propofyl, fentanyl, diazepam, midazolam etc) and i do not think it would be a hugely technical procedure from looking closer at the site. Unfortunately there is not even a semblance of veterinary care here so the only drugs i have are human-use ones.
Its a really beautiful bird, and i am really hoping that it will be fully rehabilitated, otherwise i might be faced with the terrible prospect of euthanasia.
If any of you have any advice i would really appreciate it
thanks

E-mail me the x-rays if you want, I've PM'd you my e-mail address. Success rate regards release of birds is generally rather poor, even in the hands of world experts like the Raptor Centre at Minnesota - I wish you (and the bird) luck.
As far as lead goes, as already stated, it is only a worry if in the digestive tract - generally outside of this it won't cause problems.

The problem with strapping wings is the joints of birds fuse VERY quickly, so even if the fracture heals they may not be able to fly fully due to constriction of joints. Also, if excessive callus forms, then movement between radius/ulna is also affected and complicates extension of the wing.

[Mark]

HI

just to update if any of you are interested, the bird is doing well. i have made a large outdoor cage for it, and unstrapped the wing for a little over a week now. she is starting to loosen it up and is flying reasonably on a creance, although no great distances, and is still not quite willing to lift herself off the ground more than about a foot or two. i think with a bit more work, she'll be back in the wild with the rest of them. no hurry to get her there though, she's a real pleasure to have around.

Mark

[redtail1967]

good thread

[farmhawker]

hi is cut and heal liquid wound care suitable for bop i use it alot on my dogsand other farm animals that get cuts or rashes and wondered if it was safe for birds its a natural product with no nasty chemicals (fish oil linseed oil tea tree oil and balsam of fir are all it has in it )

mart

[redtail1966]

brill thread their sprout. good info

[Sprout]

hi is cut and heal liquid wound care suitable for bop i use it alot on my dogsand other farm animals that get cuts or rashes and wondered if it was safe for birds its a natural product with no nasty chemicals (fish oil linseed oil tea tree oil and balsam of fir are all it has in it )

mart

I personally don't like putting any wound powders etc on cuts - clean then using povidone iodine or similar and keep then clean, dress them if required (with care). I find creams and ointments tend to attract all sorts of ****,, oily ones also affect feather condition matting feathers - most wounds heal fine ion their own if allowed to ie infection prevented.

[Ninja-Jon]

I personally don't like putting any wound powders etc on cuts - clean then using povidone iodine or similar and keep then clean, dress them if required (with care). I find creams and ointments tend to attract all sorts of ****,, oily ones also affect feather condition matting feathers - most wounds heal fine ion their own if allowed to ie infection prevented.

Do you rate this Vetark Tamodine

[Sprout]

Do you rate this Vetark Tamodine

That is povidone iodine based so is fine for cleaning wounds at the correct dilution

[Dick The Brick]

Hi all hope you can help

my mhh has started loseing between 2.5 an 3 oz every night even when in the house in box
been to two vets
been wormed 2
blood taken all aright
been feeding chicks rat rabbit

have put weight up now to moulting weight 1 10 flying 1 6

any help please

richard

[Sprout]

Hi all hope you can help

my mhh has started loseing between 2.5 an 3 oz every night even when in the house in box
been to two vets
been wormed 2
blood taken all aright
been feeding chicks rat rabbit

have put weight up now to moulting weight 1 10 flying 1 6

any help please

richard

This is a first aid thread for general problems - any specific start your own thread. However, no idea what you mean - how can it be losing weight if you have put its weight up 4oz????

[Dick The Brick]

This is a first aid thread for general problems - any specific start your own thread. However, no idea what you mean - how can it be losing weight if you have put its weight up 4oz????

put weight up becuase it is losing 2 to 3 oz a day ie feed bird 5 o clock in evening weight bird 1.10 or 1.11 next evening bird weight is 1.7 to .1 8
richard

[Tasha55403]

put weight up becuase it is losing 2 to 3 oz a day ie feed bird 5 o clock in evening weight bird 1.10 or 1.11 next evening bird weight is 1.7 to .1 8
richard

Am I missing something here? It sounds like it's metabolism is just going good-feed it enough to keep it on weight and keep flying...

[Sprout]

put weight up becuase it is losing 2 to 3 oz a day ie feed bird 5 o clock in evening weight bird 1.10 or 1.11 next evening bird weight is 1.7 to .1 8
richard

If the bird weighs 1.8 and you feed it 3oz, that will make it 1.11???? Then it will metabolise that so will be back to 1.7 the next day??? Unless I'm being incredibly stupid or missing the point, I think this is normal????????

[Dick The Brick]

If the bird weighs 1.8 and you feed it 3oz, that will make it 1.11???? Then it will metabolise that so will be back to 1.7 the next day??? Unless I'm being incredibly stupid or missing the point, I think this is normal????????

is this normal for a mhh to lose that much weight in 1 day

[redtail1967]

good info mate

[Puffin]

thanks sprout, another post thats worth many times is "weight" in gold!

[Gerry4292]

Hi Sprout, just re-read this thread again and am still picking up great advice and tips thanks mate,by the way hows the book coming along.
Gerry.

[Phoenix1]

sprout, hi interesting thread. have you any suggesting of what to put together as a first aid kit/ travel pack including anti biotics and anti inflamatory for treatment on bites/scratches
mick

[Sprout]

sprout, hi interesting thread. have you any suggesting of what to put together as a first aid kit/ travel pack including anti biotics and anti inflamatory for treatment on bites/scratches
mick

These need dispensing/prescribing by your veterinary surgeon - but ALL bites should be treated with antibiotics. I don't recommend people having these in your hawking box just incase - unfortunately some people use them in the wrong scenarios/wrong doses and cause more harm than good.
For a first aid case - priority is lectade/electrolyte solution and crop tube. Thermal blanket. Caustic pencil/potassium permanganate. Povidone iodine or similar. Anything else can be sourced later - not an emergency situation.

[Phoenix1]

ok thanks what about products like savlon? I can use on parrots for grazes etc but what about bop ? same or different
mick

[Gunter]

Not specific problem at the moment touch wood, just wondering what are the first symptoms of it? I have FHH and have a couple of decent (4 - 10 inch dia) branches of varying widths as perches. Shelf in the corner and small sheltered corner perch covered with astraturf. Just wondering what to look out for.

[JohnO31]

ok thanks what about products like savlon? I can use on parrots for grazes etc but what about bop ? same or different
mick

i use savlon spray on my birds when needed,i was out one day and my mhh cut his foot it was just a nick it wasnt big at all and 2-3 times a day i gave it a squirt and the cut healed nicely all the spray is,is iodine 1.14% w/w plus povidone,n-pentane,soya lecithin,butane,pl/pa holder

atb ian

[BrightRed]

this has been a fantastic thread,
im a newbie with most of the equipment purchased, however i wont buy a bird until im 100% ready,
this forum has been invaluable
keep up the great work

charlie

ps how do i go about changing my username?

[Saker Mad]

any news on the book yet sprout

[stormcloud96]

I love this thread as well, though I also wish there was recommenders for U.S. costumers including a possible health care course like you guys have a great one! (so jealous)

Anyway I understand Sprout you have already mentioned the best solutions for wounds. However my sponsor recommended Manuka honey for both wounds and bumblefoot. Luckily I have not had any probelms yet, but was wondering what you thought of this stuff if anything. Thanks in advance!

[Sprout]

I love this thread as well, though I also wish there was recommenders for U.S. costumers including a possible health care course like you guys have a great one! (so jealous)

Anyway I understand Sprout you have already mentioned the best solutions for wounds. However my sponsor recommended Manuka honey for both wounds and bumblefoot. Luckily I have not had any probelms yet, but was wondering what you thought of this stuff if anything. Thanks in advance!

No experience with it - but heard good results from it in human medicine.

[M Donnelly]

My MHH had a bit of a crash landing into heavy cover and cut his cere. Wasn't too bad cleaned it up and thought nothing else of it. Problem is everytime the cut seemed to be healing he knocked the scab off. I was worried he was thrashing around in his mews as he has just started hunting. ( has had 2 rabbits)(he is free lofted) So kept him on his perch and with the cold weather had him indoors for a night. During the evening I saw him having a scratch at his beak. - nothing unusual then I realised he was being quite persitant and scratching at the scab which came off and then he settled back down.

Is there anything I can do to stop him scratching his scab off? Is it the same as us when as a scab heals and shrinks it can feel itchy?

Martin

[Sprout]

My MHH had a bit of a crash landing into heavy cover and cut his cere. Wasn't too bad cleaned it up and thought nothing else of it. Problem is everytime the cut seemed to be healing he knocked the scab off. I was worried he was thrashing around in his mews as he has just started hunting. ( has had 2 rabbits)(he is free lofted) So kept him on his perch and with the cold weather had him indoors for a night. During the evening I saw him having a scratch at his beak. - nothing unusual then I realised he was being quite persitant and scratching at the scab which came off and then he settled back down.

Is there anything I can do to stop him scratching his scab off? Is it the same as us when as a scab heals and shrinks it can feel itchy?

Martin

Similar to us - as a scab shrinks and heals, it itches. Try keeping it moist - using F10 barrier cream or similar??

[M Donnelly]

Thanks Sprout,

Anything to make sure and avoid?

[Sprout]

If you have specific problems with your bird please start a new thread and PM me about it - this thread is for FIRST AID - doesn't want cluttering up with specific problems.

Thanks

[Jiff]

i was just reminising of various problems that i panicked over when i was starting out,lime green urates are a sign of a problem, but what if instead of a falcon you have a hawk or eagle that slices, and just to keep things looking spick and span you paint the walls white, you keep em tight for training/manning and you start seeing green stripes on youre walls, very dark mutes and very white urates are pop tarts, but it has to be outlined that a new bird with stress and weight reduction, will often throw a green mute and a wet urate this combined can give the impression to a begginer of a fault, my biggest advice, when you pick the young bird up,and take it into youre care, if it doesnt hate you! it has a problem!:yawinkle:

[Sprout]

i was just reminising of various problems that i panicked over when i was starting out,lime green urates are a sign of a problem, but what if instead of a falcon you have a hawk or eagle that slices, and just to keep things looking spick and span you paint the walls white, you keep em tight for training/manning and you start seeing green stripes on youre walls, very dark mutes and very white urates are pop tarts, but it has to be outlined that a new bird with stress and weight reduction, will often throw a green mute and a wet urate this combined can give the impression to a begginer of a fault, my biggest advice, when you pick the young bird up,and take it into youre care, if it doesnt hate you! it has a problem!:yawinkle:

I ALWAYS faecal sample all new birds within the first 48hrs to rule out obvious probs - somethings esp coccidiosis can be a real nightmare once the ground is contaminated, so better find out from day one if it is there and treat it before other birds are contaminated. Some even go as far as blood testing.

[Jiff]

sprout what i was getting at, you get a new bird from the aviery, it's had the best of everything, now it's stressed, now all the food it ever had is digested, a healthy bird will pass green mutes as the bile from the liver is digested, it's a complicated subject all told, when i seen strange green stripes on my new wall, if it wasnt for the fact that i'd had pigeons before i may have parted with a lump of cash, all i'm saying is if there's a change for no apparent reason then yes! worry! disstinguishing urates from mute is a subject in itself going by the people i've met since getting involved!

[Sprout]

sprout what i was getting at, you get a new bird from the aviery, it's had the best of everything, now it's stressed, now all the food it ever had is digested, a healthy bird will pass green mutes as the bile from the liver is digested, it's a complicated subject all told, when i seen strange green stripes on my new wall, if it wasnt for the fact that i'd had pigeons before i may have parted with a lump of cash, all i'm saying is if there's a change for no apparent reason then yes! worry! disstinguishing urates from mute is a subject in itself going by the people i've met since getting involved!

Agree with you Jiff

[Sean D]

I've heard on here that Sudocrem is good to use on grazes and small cuts to the legs, whats your opinion.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned

[Sprout]

I've heard on here that Sudocrem is good to use on grazes and small cuts to the legs, whats your opinion.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned

Personally hate things like that - all the do is gunge the wound up, attract dirt/food etc and matt the feathers up with oil. Prefer to keep the wounds clean using something like povidone iodine then use a small amount of F10 barrier cream rubbed in well. But if concerned about wounds, see your vet - even the smallest wounds have the potential to cause big problems if not treated correctly/effectively.

[Jiff]

you need to be very carefull with human type cut creams as some contain a local anesthetic which is toxic for the birds.

[Riddick]

first aid kit, please can you provide a list of what you basicly need in them please, as in the books it doesnt say alot about them.

reguards
simon

[SSL]

first aid kit, please can you provide a list of what you basicly need in them please, as in the books it doesnt say alot about them.

reguards
simon

http://falconryoriginals.co.uk/first_aid_kit.htm

[Saker Mad]

i bought mine from the ibr http://www.independentbirdregister.co.uk/webshop/Details.asp?ProductID=116

atb
ian

[Jiff]

i'm in my 4th season, BUT once again have just been fairly well footed, my own fault, i just never learn, and without doubt feed too manny tit-bits on the fist with my right hand, to the bird at weight, the right hand gets just a bit too much attention, bareing in mind the bird eats dead animals and holds them with it's feet, do we all pack self! first aid kits.

[Jonathan Hall]

I have been asked to start a post on emergency first aid, so if anyone has anything specific to ask or want to know then ask away or PM me.

Firstly - crop tubing. I think this is the most important aspect of first aid, and there shouldn't be any real excuse why someone can't perform this simple procedure. To start with visit your local veterinary surgery and ask if you can have some old syringes (5, 10 and 20ml) and some old drip tubing to use as your crop tube. I'd imagine most would let you have some used ones for nothing but if they are tight as a ducks arse may charge you a few quid. At the same time ask to buy either a sachet of lectade (or similar) and a tin of Hills A/D - both have long shelf lives so should last for a while (again, prob cost a pound or two). For shock I give Lectade only, but longer term mix in Hills A/D to a consistency so that it can be sucked up into the syringe - a dose of 40ml/kg can be given upto 3 times daily but for short term shock only use smaller amounts (10ml/kg) and gradually increase upto the 40ml/kg dose if doing ok. To administer crop tubed fluids have an assistant hold the bird vertically, hold the beak open and slide the tube down the side of the mouth into the crop. The opening to the wind pipe can be seen as a lemon/slit shaped hole at the base of the tongue (avoid this at all costs). The tube can often be felt sliding down the side of the neck and into the crop - administed the fluids slowly. Obviously if the bird shows signs of regurgitation or coughing stop administering imemdiately (or don't attempt if it is unconscious). A good way to practice is on a dead quail or similar, place the tube in and you should feel it in the crop region. This will help save more birds than any other treatment and will hopefully keep them alive until specialist advice can be sought.
Preparation is the key and there is no real excuse for not having the equipment (costs pennies) in your hawking box. An aletrnative would be to mix half a pint of warm water with 2 tablespoons of sugar and use some of this to mix with a meat based babies food.do you have any ideas of where i could get hold of boxes/containers suitable for rehab that will not cost the earth for all sized birds???:idea

[SilverLeapers]

As you UK folks say...."CRACKING THREAD" Sprout!
THANKS! MATE:heart:...I mean B'ye....damn I've been reading too much UK speak.

[Sprout]

do you have any ideas of where i could get hold of boxes/containers suitable for rehab that will not cost the earth for all sized birds???:idea

Not sure what you are after????? Carrying boxes??? In which case anything will do short term ie cardboard box??? If you mean for re-hab - then enclosed aviary as big as poss to assess flight???

[jenifre]

i may be jumping on this late.
When you place a crop tube into the esophagus (not the trachael opening at the base of the back of the tongue) you can FEEL it in the crop... you can see it if you move it up and down. It takes skill getting a tube blindly into the trachea - but it is not impossible so avoid it!!! I aim to the side even when i can see where I am going.
I assume we are talking about crop feeding birds in dire straights, right? Like floor bound and unable to lift thier heads...or worse. In my (limited) expereince we have started these birds on water and karo syrup or honey warmed (not too warm!) and mixed together. It gives an instant carb energy source and is well tolerated. (like to hear some feedback on that!). Later, when it is tolerated give a mixture of a/d gruel or skinned mice with the intestines removed and placed in a food processor to the point where they can be pressed thru a feeding tube (more feedback?). Most birds can handle a large French tube making it easier to get to a thicker consistency as needed. What do you all think?

[Jolski]

hi all, i am going to get a beo i know crop tubing doesnt apply to me but is there any first aid techniques any one thinks i should know specifically for owls

[DragonFalcon]

Wow, I just wanted to say after reading all 11 pages, that you have some pretty great info here Sprout! I'm going to get my Veterinary degree with an emphasis in Ornithology so I can be a raptor vet. :D Of course, that's going to be a lot of work, but certainly worth it.

[Sprout]

Wow, I just wanted to say after reading all 11 pages, that you have some pretty great info here Sprout! I'm going to get my Veterinary degree with an emphasis in Ornithology so I can be a raptor vet. :D Of course, that's going to be a lot of work, but certainly worth it.

Thanks - and good luck with your degree

[mark1972]

I have been asked to compile a book, the slant being first aid and preventable problems. There are enough raptor disease manuals out there aimed at treating sick hawks, this will hopefully be a preventable book ie how to prevent certain diseases, what to look for etc and basic field first aid - similar to what is covered in the thread. It will take ages as the most important bit will be the pics, of which I currently have zero!!

Thoughts??? Be useful or a waste of time??

Sorry this is a bit late just reading my way through tread, I think your book idea sounds a really good one. taking the right angle of prevention etc.
Thank you for all your effort and time.
Mark

[DannyBoy1991]

Brilliant idea for the book, should be compulsory for anyone serious about their birds as vet bills or even finding suitable b.o.p. vets can be very difficult for some people . all the beast , kev

[UKFlyer]

For bites I would always seek further advice, depending on where the bite is (near joint/tendon etc) it can have far reaching implications if not treated correctly. In the field clean it as best as possible, using something like povidone-iodine etc (cheaply purchased from most chemists). Once clean visit your vets for further assessment/anti-biotics.
Broken talons should also be treated similarly, clean the wound and keep it clean and again generally cover with anti-biotics to prevent the quick becoming infected. Once the nail has been removed it taken time for the new talon to re-grow, and the quick will be exposed until this happens. There is no guarantee the talon will re-grow as normal either, time will tell. Ideally the bird will not be flown in this time until the nail has re-covered the exposed quick for risk of damaging it further. I have used a product called new kin before from the chemists that works well and helps initially protect the exposed quick.
For haemorrhage, application of pressue to the site for a few minutes should stop most venous bleeds, hooding the hawk to keep it still and preventing bates will also help. If not using caustic pencils or potassium permanganate crystals will stem the flow of blood. IF you feel the need to apply a bandage, especially with elasticated material such as vetwrap be very careful it is not too tight, a tourniquet effect applied for more than 20 minutes can lead to irreversible vascular compromise.


Excelent thread I will purchase some items to make up an emergency kit, cheers keep it coming.

[Saker Mad]

cracking thread sprout its a great refesher ive just had to crop tube a wild kestrel that was handed in and i was great to have a reference point to double check things :supz:
atb
ian

[SteveAstbury]

Hi i just been reading this thread, could you list the items that should be in your first aid kit in English lol. Also i contacted my local bop vet to see if they offer a basic first aid course, so you could preform treatment until i could get him to the vet and they don't do one! any suggestions?
This is a great thread though full of info

[DaveFHH]

Anybody wanting practical experience.

I have arranged for Neil Forbes to come to lancashire to conduct a 1 day first day course but need more people to commit to it to make it worthwhile and cost effective.

I am certain he will be covering crop tubing for example as he asked for some dead pheasant or equivelent to made available on the day.

Sure it will be worthwhile and extremely informative. Just need more people to contact me before booking him.

pm if interested, plenty of spaces left at the moment.

[Petrinja Saker]

What hapened with the book.?

[Rob999]

highly reccommend attending.....however long you've been doing falconry. yes crop tubing wil be covered as bandaging of wings and feet and of splinting of legs. loads more covered and well worth the money. :supz::supz:

[vethelpdirect]

Please check out http://www.vethelpdirect.com (http://www.vethelpdirect.com/) birds of prey section by Neil Forbes avian vet who specialises in birds of prey. Interactive symptom guide gives priority rating and customised first aid advice for your bird.

[HuntersRest69]

not really first aid Sprout, but ive read a couple of posts lately where hawks have been in dangerously low condition. perhaps a few words on what and what not to do for anyone who finds themselves with a low hawk?

[HunterPaul]

just found this thread... it should be up at the top of the forum permanently:confused: probably one of the most important threads on here... and thank you sprout... not read it all yet, but getting through it... Paul

[Sprout]

not really first aid Sprout, but ive read a couple of posts lately where hawks have been in dangerously low condition. perhaps a few words on what and what not to do for anyone who finds themselves with a low hawk?

A lot depends on why it is low in the first place - through illness or stupidity!! A low hawk through poor diet/not enough food will more than likely also be dehydrated, and if collapsed also in a state of shock with risk of organ failure - the priority is fluids, warmth and sgtress free - ideally get to a vet for intra-venous fluids to treat the shock and fluid deficits, but if not, crop tube with a balanced electrolute solution as described before. Any vet should supply you with one of these - such as lectade. If keeps the fluids down, then little/often crop tube with a recovery diet such as Hills A/D or Royal Canin recovery mixed with the electrolyte solution - enough so the crop is easily put over. A bird in low condition will also struggle to put over a normal crop risking sour crop - so little/often is the key.

[HolyWood]

You can measure the approx distance from mouth to crop - for a HH about 4 inches of tubing will be sufficient. gnererally you can see and feel it passing down the side of the neck and into the crop. One thing though is lubricate it first (spit) and never force it, especially in cases of sour crop for risk of perforating an already inflammed crop. I've never known too much crop tube be used but potentially the tube can kink and knot if crosses in the crop (has been known when catheterising bladders - if too much catheter is threaded in it can knot and need surgery to un do!!) But you'd need a huge length of crop tubing to do that - be practical and use a length and guage tubing to suit each individual species.been king to learn more about this which i am.. sprout does most vets not use the metal ones for croping

[Sprout]

been king to learn more about this which i am.. sprout does most vets not use the metal ones for croping

Apart from the very big birds - or parrots, I much prefer a disposable plastic piece of drip tubing - especially for the less experienced there is less risk of causing trauma using the soft tubing as apposed to rigid metal tubing

[HolyWood]

Apart from the very big birds - or parrots, I much prefer a disposable plastic piece of drip tubing - especially for the less experienced there is less risk of causing trauma using the soft tubing as apposed to rigid metal tubingthank you mate why i ask i,m going in the morning to crop tube a dead bird to get the swing of it
but its a metal one we will be using its the only one i could get sorted for tomorrow
thanks again sprout ...see how i get on :yawinkle:

[Troy Kissane]

brilliant thread. like someone said if it helps just one bird its a bonus.ill keep my eye on this one m8 :D

[Fenlands Rescue]

Karl clear your pm's.

[micky]

Hi great thread information.
Over the years helping my local bird of prey rescue center ( The Raptor foundation ).
a couple of years ago i attended one of Neil forbe's talks of birds of prey. At that talk he also suggested first aid kits. and yes he had some with him.
in the kit came cotton buds , felt backed ali strip for breaks and splinting , potassium permanent, glucose powder , pevidine antiseptic , nu-gel ,electrolyte , sample bottles , tweezers and tape. And an instruction leaflet.

the electrolyte is concentrated and diluted 1:11 with water. I now swear by this as it has save numinous wild rescues from death.
I have just emailed them to get some more of this to keep in stock.

[Jiff]

i have said this before, i've probably said it on this thread earlier, if you are going to hunt birds you must learn how to crop tube, you can have the best first aid kit in the world but if you cant get fluids in to combat shock you may aswell have a socket set and a screwdriver with you.

[Sprout]

i have said this before, i've probably said it on this thread earlier, if you are going to hunt birds you must learn how to crop tube, you can have the best first aid kit in the world but if you cant get fluids in to combat shock you may aswell have a socket set and a screwdriver with you.

For once I agree with you Jiff. Fluids save more birds than anything else. Its easy to do - just learn safely BEFORE you have to do it in an emergency situation.

[Jiff]

like it or not! you normaly agree:lol: it's the simplest process in the world! and it beggers belief that people cannot do it.

[Jog3ee]

:supz: Very helpful and informative thread

[Little Joe]

I just discovered this thread now. What a great idea! And we are fortunate to have Karl so generously sharing his knowledge and experience with us.

Question: Karl, I will study the thread in detail when I have more time, so apologies if it's been covered. Could you describe the procedure for "milking" a crop? I mean getting food out when the bird doesnt put the crop over - to prevent sour crop.

Thanks in advance,
Jannes

[Sprout]

I just discovered this thread now. What a great idea! And we are fortunate to have Karl so generously sharing his knowledge and experience with us.

Question: Karl, I will study the thread in detail when I have more time, so apologies if it's been covered. Could you describe the procedure for "milking" a crop? I mean getting food out when the bird doesnt put the crop over - to prevent sour crop.

Thanks in advance,
Jannes

IDEALLY - this should be done under anaesthesia. The fermented crop contents, combined with an already poorly hawk results in a massive risk of inhalational pneumonia. Under anaesthesia the wind pipe can be protected with a tube and the contents milked safely. In very severe situations it is sometimes a case of surgically cutting the crop just to remove the contents quickly and then suturing back together once the bird is more stable (but this is purely a Veterinary intervention and illegal for anyone else to even attempt it!!).
If must do it your self, the best way is to hold the hawk upside down with one finger in the corner of the mouth to keep the beak open (use an assistant). Then gradually milk the crop contents from the base of the crop towards the mouth - it should gradually start coming out. If not, crop tube some warmed electrolyte to loosen the crop contents and then re-attempt.

[TiercelMan]

Hi Karl, I too have just found this thread. As I haven't read every post and don't know if this has been mentioned. In crop tubing, I have found that the purpose made metal crop tubes are much easier to use than plastic tubing. They serve the additional use of prising and holding the beak open without biting down on plastic tube. The rounded end of the metal ones also prevent catching anywhere on the way down. Just thought it useful to mention this,
regards Alistair

[Sprout]

Hi Karl, I too have just found this thread. As I haven't read every post and don't know if this has been mentioned. In crop tubing, I have found that the purpose made metal crop tubes are much easier to use than plastic tubing. They serve the additional use of prising and holding the beak open without biting down on plastic tube. The rounded end of the metal ones also prevent catching anywhere on the way down. Just thought it useful to mention this,
regards Alistair


Cheers Alistair

Think those have been mentioned previously. I personally prefer the plastic tubing as find them easier to handle/use. However its like most things, use/do what you are comfortable using - so long as it does the job!! The technique is probably more important at the end of the day than what equipment you use.

[Little Joe]

IDEALLY - this should be done under anaesthesia. The fermented crop contents, combined with an already poorly hawk results in a massive risk of inhalational pneumonia. Under anaesthesia the wind pipe can be protected with a tube and the contents milked safely. In very severe situations it is sometimes a case of surgically cutting the crop just to remove the contents quickly and then suturing back together once the bird is more stable (but this is purely a Veterinary intervention and illegal for anyone else to even attempt it!!).
If must do it your self, the best way is to hold the hawk upside down with one finger in the corner of the mouth to keep the beak open (use an assistant). Then gradually milk the crop contents from the base of the crop towards the mouth - it should gradually start coming out. If not, crop tube some warmed electrolyte to loosen the crop contents and then re-attempt.

Thank you Karl. I realize the risk of getting food into the tracheal opening! Its not something I will attempt unless it's an absolute emergency.

[Elliott Simpson]

Very useful and informative thread. Only just been shown it, but having a look over the threads I can just say I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this is well worth-while following.

Thanks again,

Elliott

[Toz]

Parasites.

I have been asked about treatment for both internal and external parasites, not strictly first aid but will cover it anyway.

Worms - many know my views on regular worming already but in essence I do not agree with dosing routinely just incase worms are present. It is far better to check a faecal sample twice yearly and treat IF worms are present. Treating blindly can cause as many problems as it solves and make things more complicated in the future if it doesn't follow accordingly to plan. Any bird not holding weight, reduced appetite, head flicking, diarrhoea etc should be checked first before blindly worming, the delay in waiting to see if the wormer has worked may mean something more sinister is masked and temporarily ignored in whcih case precious time has been lost. It takes only a little fore thought to collect a faecal sample and have it checked by your vet to rule these problems out.

Mites/lice - check the bird at night, red mites generally only feed on the bird at night and live in the housing the rest of the time. Heavy infestations of flat flies and similar can cause significant blood loss especially in young birds so regular checks should be made and treat accordingly. Pyrethrin sprays are effective as most treatments, but also don;t forget to treat the housing in cases of red mite. Frontline spray is fine and can be used in birds of all ages but be care with use on feathers, being alcohol based it can dry and make the feathers brittle if used excessively and chill young birds if used excessively. It is not licensed for birds and as such if you use it your vet may ask you to sign a disclaimer (although it is soon to lose its POM licence). Ivermectin type drugs are also used, but again not licensed so speak to your vet prior to using such drugs.
sprout, what is the best way to catch and preserve faceal:rolleyes:

[StoneyLink]

Just found this thread, it's great! A note on crop tubing, I've always found it a good idea to remove the crop tube slowly and in stages, this seems to help to prevent the bird from being sick straight after crop tubing, especially with owls who are renowned for this.
Again great thread :)

[Sprout]

sprout, what is the best way to catch and preserve faceal:rolleyes:

I always place a piece of plastic under the perch and collect the faeces over 2-3 days. What is passed can then be placed in a suitable container for sending to your vet. I keep them in the fridge or other cool place until collected a few days worth. Make sure the pot is not porous or absorbent, the old plastic pots 35mm camera film came in were ideal. I've been sent faeces before through the post just wrapped in tissue paper - by the time arrives with me the wet bit has drained through the envelope and created a big smelly hole leaving no useful faeces to check!! There are even specialist faecal pots that help with the analysis that can be got from your vet - if not contact: www.avianveterinaryservices.co.uk

Richard will check them for you if not know anyone else suitable.

[Toz]

I always place a piece of plastic under the perch and collect the faeces over 2-3 days. What is passed can then be placed in a suitable container for sending to your vet. I keep them in the fridge or other cool place until collected a few days worth. Make sure the pot is not porous or absorbent, the old plastic pots 35mm camera film came in were ideal. I've been sent faeces before through the post just wrapped in tissue paper - by the time arrives with me the wet bit has drained through the envelope and created a big smelly hole leaving no useful faeces to check!! There are even specialist faecal pots that help with the analysis that can be got from your vet - if not contact: www.avianveterinaryservices.co.uk (http://www.avianveterinaryservices.co.uk)

Richard will check them for you if not know anyone else suitable.
thanks sprout, also will richard check for other nasties that you can find in faeces:lol:

[Sprout]

thanks sprout, also will richard check for other nasties that you can find in faeces:lol:

If you ask nicely :yawinkle:

[Little Joe]

Dear Karl,

I'm looking at microscopes to do my own diagnosis of protozoan, bacterial and internal parasitical infections.

What magnification range do you recommend to cover everything from caryospora to the various worm infections?

Regards,
Jannes

[Muggins999]

Hi Karl,

i went to feed my 6 yr old EEO late last nite and found that the tip of her upper beak is after splitting by about 5mil. She is not distressed or look like she's in pain. She ate as usual. Is there any treatment for this to repair\stop it widening?

Any help would be great

Fran.

[Sprout]

Hi Karl,

i went to feed my 6 yr old EEO late last nite and found that the tip of her upper beak is after splitting by about 5mil. She is not distressed or look like she's in pain. She ate as usual. Is there any treatment for this to repair\stop it widening?

Any help would be great

Fran.

Minor cacks i the beak can be fixed by a process called coping - basically filing the split out to prevent it getting worse - then careful management with whole carcass foods and possibly repeat filing. Find someone experienced local to you who can show you how to do - its easily done by yourself if know how.

[Alan G]

Hi Karl, I too have just found this thread. As I haven't read every post and don't know if this has been mentioned. In crop tubing, I have found that the purpose made metal crop tubes are much easier to use than plastic tubing. They serve the additional use of prising and holding the beak open without biting down on plastic tube. The rounded end of the metal ones also prevent catching anywhere on the way down. Just thought it useful to mention this,
regards Alistair


http://www.mah-shop.co.uk/individual-gavage-crop-tubes---prices-from-1005-54-p.asp

Went down the same route Alistair, via my local avain vets, though can be sourced from the above link.