Infirtile hybrids

[BasLouwMan]

Evening all,

Some hybrids falcons are fertile, and some aren't. When are they fertile, and when aren't they?
Is this something in the DNA of the parents?

I would be very pleased with an answer, other documents and articles about AI are welcome as wel.

(Pls excuse me for my bad englise)

[Tr1gger]

i think it is somthing to do with that they birds DNA isnt meant to be put together and this results in infertile hybreds. I dont have a clue when they are fertile or why because im not very sure on hybrids so perhaps sombody more experienced could shed some light on the subject

[Berkut]

My knowledge is limited but I think female gyr/peregrines are infertile,although the males are fertile.I think most of the other hybrids are fertile but it for those breeders on here to correct me if I am wrong or give you a more detailed explanation.
Just thought I would add my tuppence worth.

[MikeGyr]

i dnt know if this is right im probably totally wrong but gyr/sakers cld be fertile because they are so closley related and it doesnt change their dna too much:rolleyes: i just made tht up im not saying its right lol just my thought


mike:)

[Berkut]

i dnt know if this is right im probably totally wrong but gyr/sakers cld be fertile because they are so closley related and it doesnt change their dna too much:rolleyes: i just made tht up im not saying its right lol just my thought


mike:)
Gyr/Sakers are definately fertile.

[TMoritz]

i dnt know if this is right im probably totally wrong but gyr/sakers cld be fertile because they are so closley related and it doesnt change their dna too much:rolleyes: i just made tht up im not saying its right lol just my thought


mike:)


I read a scientific paper a few years ago about gyrXsakers and the facts are that they are MORE fertile than pure gyrs, specifically regarding volume and virility of semen.

The argument of the paper was to prove that the Gyr and Saker are a superspecies and the evidence cited to support this was the increased viability of the "hybrids". Evidently increased viability is a sign that the genetic pool is wider but not beyond the boarders of a single species width.

I'm not taking a position on whether sakers and gyrs are a single superspecies but the point is that gyrXsakers are highly fertile.


Regards,

Troy Moritz

[Falconer1000]

i dnt know if this is right im probably totally wrong but gyr/sakers cld be fertile because they are so closley related and it doesnt change their dna too much:rolleyes: i just made tht up im not saying its right lol just my thought


mike:)


from what i know your right, if two species are closley related they are more likley to be fertile for example gyrxsaker or perexbarbery but it is the weird crosses that tend to be infertile like gyrxmerlins or gyr peregrines.

[Intek Hosting]

I asked this same question of a AI breeder and the explaination I got was that the hybreds are sub fertile or genetically non-viable.

each species has a particular shape and size of their reproductive organs which matches the size, shape and genetics of its natural partner.
When two species are crossed, they will depending on the cross, produce a reproductive organ that is neither one nor the other species. For example a Gyr x pere or Gyr x Merlin, the female would have an oviduct which is different to both the parent birds.

In the case of one of the hybreds (I dont remember which one but I'll ask again) you end up with an oviduct where the semen simply cannot reach the egg to fertilise it, hence the females being considered infertile.

Other hybred are able to fertilize the egg, but the results are not good due to the genetics of the two parents.
In some cases the shape of the oviduct can be a problem as well (something about the folds in the oviduct wall) where the semen does not get held in the walls of the oviduct. The result, you inseminate the bird but the semen doesnt stay in to fertilize the egg. The result being bad fertility of the eggs that are laid.

I'll go back and ask the question again and get him to explain it in more detail.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

it realy depends on how closely related the species are, and this affects the fertility. i dont know much on the subject in bop but i have bred cage birds (including a few hybrids) for 12 years.

Example. i bred a hybrid between a bengalese finch and a mollucan mannikin (very closely related species) and the off spring were totaly fertile.

i also bred a hybrid between bengalese and white headed mannikin (related but not VERY closely) the male hybrids were fertile but the females were not, although they still produced eggs they were never viable.

i have also bred greenfinch mules (greenfinch X canary) these speceies are from the same family but not that closely related, hence the off spring were all infertile.

so you see the degree of fertility depends on how closely the species are related, hence gyrXsaker is always fertile whereas the gyrXpere has a limited degree of fertility as the gyr and the peregrine are not as closely related as the gyr and the saker.
there was a similar post a wjile back asking about the fertility of the perlin, and i imagine this hybrid would be infertile as the parents are not closely related.

[BasLouwMan]

Thanks for all the replies, more people wanna say there word are welcome...

I think I'm getting it, but not sure (will read it another time)....

Thnx a lot..