Gull Hawking

[Berkut]

If this is in the wrong section I apologise.It was either here or the longwing section.

Anyway I have been asked a few questions on Gull Hawking and a couple suggested a thread on the subject,so considering I do a lot of it,and now earn a living from it, that is what I have decided on.

My main longwinging used to be gamehawking which I really enjoyed but for a couple of reasons it became lot of effort for a little return.The 2 main reasons were ,firstly,a massive decline locally in the grey partridge population and secondly,the 500 acres of grouse moor close to my home became so overgrazed that it went from a definate 6 to 10 points in an evening to the grouse vanishing completely.
Two other things happened about the same time which converted me to gull hawking.The first was that a female gamehawk took an adult herring gull completely out the blue.In hindsight it was actually quite a good flight,although as it was she never so much as looked at another one, but it gave me a taste for trying some serious gull hawking.
The 2nd thing was I was asked if I would like to do some part time work clearing gulls from the local landfill site.
I needed the cash and was working shifts in my full time job so it tied in nicely.
I had bred 3 pere/saker x sakers that year and took a light coloured female
with the intention of training her to fly at gulls.
As it happened she turned out to be a very good gull hawk.She taught me a lot about gull hawking in her short life and unfortunately taught me about the extra risks this particular branch of the sport holds.
She took 19 gulls in 3 weeks before killing herself on a wire chasing gull no 20.
I was gutted.At that time I was still trying to keep a gamehawk going as an option.He was a 50/50 white gyr/peregrine and was doing ok, but needs must ,so I worked on converting him to gulls.His first 4 kills were crows but he took such a beating from the flock of crows he never looked at another one and went on to become a very reliable gull hawk.His ability got me all my current landfill contracts and he is the father of my white 3/4 gyr / 1/4 peregrine female featured on another thread of mine.
I will leave this as the initial post and add more later this evening as both my gull hawks of this year took gulls today.My gyr/peregrine male took his 12th and my pere/saker female took her first.I have photographs of both and will post them.
As you can imagine it is a topic which has a great variety to it and could be talked about all day so anyone with gull hawking under their belt( or not ) is more than welcome to add opinions and experiences.
Regards.

[Shaun Byrne]

Looking foreward to this thread Berkut. I'd like to do a lot more Gull Hawking myself as they are abundant on all the flat farmland around me. I've also got permission on a couple of landfills.

[Berkut]

Hawka,
Landfills are great for getting falcons going and as a fallback but you can always head for open ground for traditional gull hawking.A very under-rated branch of the sport in my opinion.

[1ABHawker]

Would love to hear more.... got no expierience of it at all... is it would you say an easier way in to longwings? I mean from a point of view of finding suitable land and enough quarry? Sorry if these are stupid questions , haven't a clue about the subject.

looking forward to your reply & description of sport.

y.i.s james.

[Terry Hanson]

If this is in the wrong section I apologise.It was either here or the longwing section.

Anyway I have been asked a few questions on Gull Hawking and a couple suggested a thread on the subject,so considering I do a lot of it,and now earn a living from it, that is what I have decided on.

My main longwinging used to be gamehawking which I really enjoyed but for a couple of reasons it became lot of effort for a little return.The 2 main reasons were ,firstly,a massive decline locally in the grey partridge population and secondly,the 500 acres of grouse moor close to my home became so overgrazed that it went from a definate 6 to 10 points in an evening to the grouse vanishing completely.
Two other things happened about the same time which converted me to gull hawking.The first was that a female gamehawk took an adult herring gull completely out the blue.In hindsight it was actually quite a good flight,although as it was she never so much as looked at another one, but it gave me a taste for trying some serious gull hawking.
The 2nd thing was I was asked if I would like to do some part time work clearing gulls from the local landfill site.
I needed the cash and was working shifts in my full time job so it tied in nicely.
I had bred 3 pere/saker x sakers that year and took a light coloured female
with the intention of training her to fly at gulls.
As it happened she turned out to be a very good gull hawk.She taught me a lot about gull hawking in her short life and unfortunately taught me about the extra risks this particular branch of the sport holds.
She took 19 gulls in 3 weeks before killing herself on a wire chasing gull no 20.
I was gutted.At that time I was still trying to keep a gamehawk going as an option.He was a 50/50 white gyr/peregrine and was doing ok, but needs must ,so I worked on converting him to gulls.His first 4 kills were crows but he took such a beating from the flock of crows he never looked at another one and went on to become a very reliable gull hawk.His ability got me all my current landfill contracts and he is the father of my white 3/4 gyr / 1/4 peregrine female featured on another thread of mine.
I will leave this as the initial post and add more later this evening as both my gull hawks of this year took gulls today.My gyr/peregrine male took his 12th and my pere/saker female took her first.I have photographs of both and will post them.
As you can imagine it is a topic which has a great variety to it and could be talked about all day so anyone with gull hawking under their belt( or not ) is more than welcome to add opinions and experiences.
Regards.
Neil, interesting. Which species do you find gives the most exciting filght. In Mavro's book Falcon in the field, he states that the Common Gull provide the ideal size for good flights.
Terry

[Crow Buster]

Neil

How far do flights at gulls travel in relation to flights at rooks and crows.

[Shaun Byrne]

I've had some cracking flights on Gulls over fields that are being ploughed. The Gulls are that intent on following the tractor they dont see the falcon until quite late. This tends to keep the action quite close.

[Berkut]

Would love to hear more.... got no expierience of it at all... is it would you say an easier way in to longwings? I mean from a point of view of finding suitable land and enough quarry? Sorry if these are stupid questions , haven't a clue about the subject.

looking forward to your reply & description of sport.

y.i.s james.
James,
Not a stupid question at all.You,ve hit the nail on the head.

[Berkut]

Neil

How far do flights at gulls travel in relation to flights at rooks and crows.
A crow flight very often ends as soon as the crow reaches the first tree or bush.Inland and away from water, gull flights can go on a long time,especially with a fit falcon and need to be observed through binoculars.

[Berkut]

Neil, interesting. Which species do you find gives the most exciting filght. In Mavro's book Falcon in the field, he states that the Common Gull provide the ideal size for good flights.
Terry
Terry,
A lot depends on the species of gulls.For common and black headed.with the appropriate quarry licence, you,ll not go far wrong with a good tiercel peregrine or possibly a male pere/saker.
I tend to fly mainly herring gulls with the odd great black back in the mix so bigger tends to be better,however my male gyr/peregrine this year is turning into a real prize.He flies at 1lb 10 oz and took his 12th gull today.He has caught 5 gulls in the last 5 days since being injured by a buzzard ( but we won,t mention that again please ) and is showing real style.

[BlackShaheen1]

i remember years ago the fun i had working the landfills .would go on one for a holliday now no problem .mypere xsaker would stoop after stoop in the pit till the gull was in the bag .thanks for starting this thred i know it will bring back loads of good times and even better flights

[Berkut]

i remember years ago the fun i had working the landfills .would go on one for a holliday now no problem .mypere xsaker would stoop after stoop in the pit till the gull was in the bag .thanks for starting this thred i know it will bring back loads of good times and even better flights
Already the thread has been worth while.:D

[Berkut]

Todays efforts.
Female pere/saker on her 1st gull .Male gyr/peregrine on his 12th.

[Eggy]

Terry,
A lot depends on the species of gulls.For common and black headed.with the appropriate quarry licence, you,ll not go far wrong with a good tiercel peregrine or possibly a male pere/saker.
I tend to fly mainly herring gulls with the odd great black back in the mix so bigger tends to be better,however my male gyr/peregrine this year is turning into a real prize.He flies at 1lb 10 oz and took his 12th gull today.He has caught 5 gulls in the last 5 days since being injured by a buzzard ( but we won,t mention that again please ) and is showing real style.
glad he is on the wing again mate . colin:yawinkle:

[Berkut]

And yesterday male gyr/peregrine on his 11th.He bound to that one miles up and I was really worried where he was going to land.

[KiteTrainer]

How do you get round the fact that the gulls eventually recognise your vehicle. I have heard that that can be a problem

[Berkut]

How do you get round the fact that the gulls eventually recognise your vehicle. I have heard that that can be a problem
I end up hiding the jeep and making my way for the slip on foot or on my hands and knees if I have to.

[BlueHawk]

Neil,

Do you take any precautions working on landfill with you birds? Apart from the obvious hazards of sharp stuff sticking out of the ground, do you disinfect them after visits?

Regards

Gareth

[Berkut]

Neil,

Do you take any precautions working on landfill with you birds? Apart from the obvious hazards of sharp stuff sticking out of the ground, do you disinfect them after visits?

Regards

Gareth
Gareth,
I carry quite a powerfull water spray in the car and always spray any dirt from the feathers and clean their feet.Nothing apart from that,although if they land with the gull near anything dirty or noxious I will move the kill to a better location before I let them feed up.

One other thing,I train them to take the lure on the fist or simply hide the lure at the last minute and have them land on the fist rather than land on the **** you get on a landfill.

[SteveL]

This is my male 3/4 gyr 1/4 saker on his second kill in two days.Can't thank you enough Neil for your advice on gull hawking as you can see it's helped me out.19418

[Berkut]

This is my male 3/4 gyr 1/4 saker on his second kill in two days.Can't thank you enough Neil for your advice on gull hawking as you can see it's helped me out.19418
Good stuff Steven and it gets the job done to boot.Leaps and bounds from now on.:lol: :D :wink:

[Big JoeJoe]

Great thread Neil :supz: My Pere Saker seems to prefer Game is there a way that I could get her to take gulls now or is it to late??

Cheers Joe

[SteveL]

Good stuff Steven and it gets the job done to boot.Leaps and bounds from now on.:lol: :D :wink:


Your not wrong thier after that kill the gulls were gone the rest of the afternoon job done.Hopfully get a flight tomorow on some local land that's been ploughed,providing that he's at flighing weight and i'v assesed the layout first.Now that he's on gulls theirs no looking back.:supz:

[Chris S]

good stuff keep it going would like to try it myself as i have load on my land

[Berkut]

Great thread Neil :supz: My Pere Saker seems to prefer Game is there a way that I could get her to take gulls now or is it to late??

Cheers Joe
Joe,
If you were able to feed her on fresh juvenile gull carcasses and ambush some juvenile gulls it would be a good start.Pere/sakers are versatile and could easy switch.My mate had a male pere/saker that he gamehawked,in its third season he started crow hawking with it and in it,s fourth he started landfill and it took gulls with ease.

[andy-mu]

I notice you talking about various hybrid varieties for gull hawking, would a pure female peregrine not just be as good for gulls or is there a particular reason you use the hybrids?

[Berkut]

Great thread Neil :supz: My Pere Saker seems to prefer Game is there a way that I could get her to take gulls now or is it to late??

Cheers Joe
Joe,
My male gyr/peregrine showed great potential as a natural high flying gamehawk.I was pulling my hair out,but with carefull weight management and carefully selected slips he has turned into the best gull hawk so far for his age and length of time flying.
Also in early flights it is important to avoid adult gulls as one bite is enough to put off a potential gull hawk for good.Young gulls have soft beaks and generally after half a dozen juveniles the falcon will realise that priority number one is to immobilise the head and beak and break the neck.

[Berkut]

I notice you talking about various hybrid varieties for gull hawking, would a pure female peregrine not just be as good for gulls or is there a particular reason you use the hybrids?
I have had good female peregrines for gulls but they tend to lack the perseverance of hybrids as a general rule .
When you do get a good one it is usually a very good one.
My 3rd year female took 51 gulls in 51 days flying last season before breaking her wing striking gull 52 in a strong wind.
She is now in a breeding chamber.

[andy-mu]

Thanks for the advice Berkut. I see the Gyr/Peregrine's coming up a lot as offering the best of both worlds, i.e the stoop and the pursuit in one. But the pere/saker's I wouldn't have considered as effective as they appear to be

[GyrXPeales]

Neil, I'm so glad you decided to make this into a thread! I knew it would be good but you've out done yourself on this one. Sounds like you've got quite a few people fired up over there. Good thread & good advise based on experience, as it should be. Well done mate!
Keep the stories commin', this is good stuff.:supz:
Best Regards,
Jeff

[Berkut]

Thanks for the advice Berkut. I see the Gyr/Peregrine's coming up a lot as offering the best of both worlds, i.e the stoop and the pursuit in one. But the pere/saker's I wouldn't have considered as effective as they appear to be
I would say you are right.Over-all gyr/peregrine.Once wedded to gulls they have no interest in anything else which for me is what I want.Pere/sakers seem possibly better all rounders and less likely to specialise.

The speed of a gyr/peregrine on the level ,after a gull is awesome.

[andy-mu]

You could be talking me in to a Gyr/Pere here, where I had really fancied a peregrine. I've noticed on other threads that the females are good for herrings or blackbacks because of there size, and that is perhaps the only decent type of prey for them. Do you think maybe the males are a more suitable all round alternative with a more varied type of quarry it would be prepared to dispose of. Thinking more of quarry vesatility as it were.

[Kevin Massey]

Good thread Neil thanks:supz:

just out of interest what sort of range are you slipping the hawk at the Gulls?

[Berkut]

Good thread Neil thanks:supz:

just out of interest what sort of range are you slipping the hawk at the Gulls?
Kev,
Initially quite close,within 50yds,but if the falcon takes to it well the length of slip has to be increased very soon.In the two weeks my male gyr/peregrine has been flying gulls the length of slip has increased to a minimum of 300yds and before long I will be taking on slips of half a mile or more.Once you get a good gull hawk flying it is definately quality hawking and you are sometimes rooted to the spot watching a classic ringing flight for 10 minutes or so or a hard tail chase consisting of multiple stoops.

[Kevin Massey]

Kev,
Initially quite close,within 50yds,but if the falcon takes to it well the length of slip has to be increased very soon.In the two weeks my male gyr/peregrine has been flying gulls the length of slip has increased to a minimum of 300yds and before long I will be taking on slips of half a mile or more.Once you get a good gull hawk flying it is definately quality hawking and you are sometimes rooted to the spot watching a classic ringing flight for 10 minutes or so or a hard tail chase consisting of multiple stoops.

what you need is a good camera man to get the footage down and make a dvd bud...

[Berkut]

You could be talking me in to a Gyr/Pere here, where I had really fancied a peregrine. I've noticed on other threads that the females are good for herrings or blackbacks because of there size, and that is perhaps the only decent type of prey for them. Do you think maybe the males are a more suitable all round alternative with a more varied type of quarry it would be prepared to dispose of. Thinking more of quarry vesatility as it were.
Andy,
You are spot on, although an adult herring gull is a match for any female gyr/peregrine. If a male gyr/peregrine learns to quickly immobilise the head of juvenile herring gulls it will be able to do the same with an adult but the adults struggle more and that is when the feather damage can become an issue. The fourth gull my male caught this year was an adult and I rushed to get there and when I arrived he had it well trussed up and it was going nowhere.

A female gyr/peregrine won,t be beaten for the way it flies down and intimidates even the largest gulls but it always boils down to cost at the end of the day.My last female caught 29 gulls in 35 days.An idiot chased her off gull 29,she landed on a power line and was electrocuted while he took the gull to the vet !!!

[Berkut]

what you need is a good camera man to get the footage down and make a dvd bud...
Kev,
I have said that many times as the vast majority of flights develope right in front of you.

[Dagi]

good thread mate just started my male gyr/saker after his moult back on the landfill plenty of daft young brown birds to get him back in the swing of things had plenty of top flights last season lets hope for more to come

[Berkut]

good thread mate just started my male gyr/saker after his moult back on the landfill plenty of daft young brown birds to get him back in the swing of things had plenty of top flights last season lets hope for more to come
Good stuff mate.You,ll know exactly where I am coming from.Hope you have some cracking flights.
I know every day as time approaches for the flight I get butterflies in my stomach.Much the same as when I was a boy and I knew Santa was on his way.:supz:

[Kanati]

Sorry if this has been asked already (i have only scanned the other posts)

i have always been told that gull flesh is nasty looking yellow colour and not a good food source, so do you feed your falcons much of gulls you catch or is the bulk of it thrown away?

[Berkut]

Sorry if this has been asked already (i have only scanned the other posts)

i have always been told that gull flesh is nasty looking yellow colour and not a good food source, so do you feed your falcons much of gulls you catch or is the bulk of it thrown away?
Kanati,
Gull flesh is a rich red meat and the falcons love it.In the winter the adults breast meat often has a covering of yellow fat.This is best avoided for no other reason that it can hold the falcons weight a bit high for a few days if a decent amount is eaten.
All my gull hawks are fed both sides of the breast and removed from the kill using one of the legs.
I know gulls are scavengers, but as a general rule they are extremely healthy and good feeds from a"hot" carcass are definately a positive step towards encouraging continued perseverance at gulls.
Regards.

[Kanati]

Kanati,
Gull flesh is a rich red meat and the falcons love it.In the winter the adults breast meat often has a covering of yellow fat.This is best avoided for no other reason that it can hold the falcons weight a bit high for a few days if a decent amount is eaten.
All my gull hawks are fed both sides of the breast and removed from the kill using one of the legs.
I know gulls are scavengers, but as a general rule they are extremely healthy and good feeds from a"hot" carcass are definately a positive step towards encouraging continued perseverance at gulls.
Regards.


thats good to hear, as i am hoping to have a go at gulls next year and was being put off by the "yellow flesh that should be avoided" rumor, as i always like to feed the birds from the kill for the very reason you jsut stated.

[Kevin Massey]

.the adults breast meat often has a covering of yellow fat..

as are pheasants....but birds still luv the mucky horrid stuff:lol:

[KevGem1]

excellent thread very intresting read keep it coming KEV ;-)

[1ABHawker]

Cracking read, so these are flights off the fist then? does the falcon try to get above the gulls before going in of are theses direct pursuits or both? either way sounds like allot a fun.

[Berkut]

Cracking read, so these are flights off the fist then? does the falcon try to get above the gulls before going in of are theses direct pursuits or both? either way sounds like allot a fun.
Initial flights are close slips off the fist,not unlike goshawk flights but as the falcon gains experience it always goes for the height advantage and the distance of the slips increases dramatically.

[Berkut]

Good flight today with the male gyr/peregrine.Slip of 300yds at my local landfill. Wind not perfect but the falcon can now adjust himself by taking his own route to the gulls.
Looks like a juvenile black back.It was certainly a lot bigger then the rest.
He bounced it into a small pool of water and carried on for a mile gaining height and then turned climbing all the way.The rest of the gulls noticed this and began exiting the site.The juvenile black back decided it was time to make a sharp exit also ( big mistake ) and left the pool of water,following the rest. The falcon was around 600ft and dropped a gear and powered after the gull,flipping over and binding to it as it made its best efforts to get away.

[Berkut]

Sorry if this has been asked already (i have only scanned the other posts)

i have always been told that gull flesh is nasty looking yellow colour and not a good food source, so do you feed your falcons much of gulls you catch or is the bulk of it thrown away?
Kanati,
Just for you mate. :D :D

[1ABHawker]

thanks for explaing that, if used in a direct fashion like that are they then wedded to that style or will they still wait on? brilliant either way...wish i could have been there to see that.

[Berkut]

thanks for explaing that, if used in a direct fashion like that are they then wedded to that style or will they still wait on? brilliant either way...wish i could have been there to see that.
What I have found is that a lot of falcons will "home" to the landfill site and if they miss a gull they will wait on in a fashion over the site until an opportunity presents itself.The gyr/peregrine did that last Monday.I would guesstimate the height at around 3000ft as he was a dot even through the binoculars.He put in a breathtaking stoop but ironically did not kill one of the gulls,although he did catch one later that day.

[Ben C]

With regard the meat of the gull and the location: Does the food they eat not transfer into the flesh, much like lead from exhaust going into pigeons?? I ask as someone with no experience of these types of flights and with a genuine interest?

[Berkut]

Ben,
Good question,but I don,t really have the answer.I have never had any problems so far
I work on the theory that if I were to constantly trade the gull for any other meat,which would be cold, it may discourage the bird,and I am of the opinion
that one of the reasons I can make good gull hawks is because they are permitted to eat a decent crop of piping hot meat everytime they kill a gull.
Even if I was aware of any possible risks I would probably carry on with fingers crossed.

[GyrXPeales]

I think you're safe feeding the breast Neil. I would think most of the toxins would be stored in the fat layer. Not unlike feeding pigeons, with all the nasty things that they carry, the breast meat and legs are hard to beat for hawk food, just don't feed the head, neck, crop, and internal organs IMHO.
You need sprout to answer that one for sure.
Great thread Niel.
Best Regards,
Jeff

[Berkut]

I think you're safe feeding the breast Neil. I would think most of the toxins would be stored in the fat layer. Not unlike feeding pigeons, with all the nasty things that they carry, the breast meat and legs are hard to beat for hawk food, just don't feed the head, neck, crop, and internal organs IMHO.
You need sprout to answer that one for sure.
Great thread Niel.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Cheers Jeff.Pretty much how I work it.I think you are spot on with that summary.I always think gull meat looks really rich.The smaller species of gull have even richer meat.

[Ben C]

Thanks fellas...........very interesting

[SakerYZF]

Great thread a subject close to my heart!

Flying a sakerett that’s great on gulls crows and pigeons he's taken 70 + head now , and training a young pere/saker female who has just started chasing them, she'l take them more seriously now I’ve dropped her weight a little im sure.

Flew a friends Imprint female peregrine yesterday whist he’s away on holiday , she took a gull in a cracking flight , after a reflush from a pond ( throw them rocks!) She’s ultra quick and really impressive to watch. She’s also very focused on gulls and ignores crows.


I've posted these pics before but whateva , close your eyes if you've seen them before.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/Rossi-HerringGull0402061.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00089.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/Rossiabouttoslamagull.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00092.jpg

[SakerYZF]

And a few more , including a male Pere/Saker who takes gulls , hes a little terror flying at 1lb 6oz quite happy to kill gulls or crows.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/DSC00290.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/RossiKill55.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Peregull4.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/DSC00223.jpg

[Kanati]

Kanati,
Just for you mate. :D :D


cheers. Are all gulls fair game, or are there rules and regs with gull hawking? (again sorry if this has been mentioned already) also..to get them started, so you make a big white gull lure?

[Berkut]

cheers. Are all gulls fair game, or are there rules and regs with gull hawking? (again sorry if this has been mentioned already) also..to get them started, so you make a big white gull lure?
A quarry licence is required for black headed and common gulls.As for the lure,
gull wings initially then I dispense with them as the falcons seem to enjoy a real wresting match with them.Early training I shoot gulls in the head with the .22 and feed from the breast and simulate a bit rough and tumble and then early August ambush juvenile herring gulls at close range with the falcon.

[Saker-Clive]

Here is the basic pest species from DEFRA......................

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/vertebrates/gen-licence.htm

[Mark Collins]

Hi berkut, good thread on gull hawking, ive been gull hawking for about 6, seasons , my 1st hawk was a peter gill black gyr, peregrine, flying a 1,10 he had caught about 15 crows and rooks when ,for some reason he switched mid flight and took a immature herring gull it was a long flight and i was made up with his performance, he took about 18 gulls and 50 crows ,rooks before he was killed on a gull on the road, i then flew a gyr, saker , peregrine female flying at 2, 7, she killed about 17, before she caught a virus and died i spent a 1000, pd at neil forbes but still lost her , i now have a peregrine , gyr, saker female , small but very good on gulls she has had over 30, i have just started her again now after the moult, it is a very challenging flight, as you well no, they will not put into cover like crows, but its very exiting to watch , on windy days they can be very difficult to catch , light winds are best, the first gyr, pergrine also took 2 common, and 2 black headed, but nufortunatly both were trackdowns and i missed the flights, i am surprised more falcons are not flown at gulls, if i can work out how to post pictures i will post them, mark.

[Berkut]

Hi berkut, good thread on gull hawking, ive been gull hawking for about 6, seasons , my 1st hawk was a peter gill black gyr, peregrine, flying a 1,10 he had caught about 15 crows and rooks when ,for some reason he switched mid flight and took a immature herring gull it was a long flight and i was made up with his performance, he took about 18 gulls and 50 crows ,rooks before he was killed on a gull on the road, i then flew a gyr, saker , peregrine female flying at 2, 7, she killed about 17, before she caught a virus and died i spent a 1000, pd at neil forbes but still lost her , i now have a peregrine , gyr, saker female , small but very good on gulls she has had over 30, i have just started her again now after the moult, it is a very challenging flight, as you well no, they will not put into cover like crows, but its very exiting to watch , on windy days they can be very difficult to catch , light winds are best, the first gyr, pergrine also took 2 common, and 2 black headed, but nufortunatly both were trackdowns and i missed the flights, i am surprised more falcons are not flown at gulls, if i can work out how to post pictures i will post them, mark.
Good to hear others are trying hard at gull hawking.It will be good to see the photos.
PS,
I did answer your post on the pest control thread.
Regards,
Neil.

[andy-mu]

I've read this article with interest, and one of the things I seem to notice with this and other gull threads are how quickly some of these falcons are killed. Quite a few I've seen at 50-80 gulls. Is this the norm, since with some of berkuts hit rates, this could be quite a young bird. Is there an average life expectancy tackling large prey like gulls or are there seasoned gull hawks who just keep on doing it time and again with style and ease?

[Berkut]

I've read this article with interest, and one of the things I seem to notice with this and other gull threads are how quickly some of these falcons are killed. Quite a few I've seen at 50-80 gulls. Is this the norm, since with some of berkuts hit rates, this could be quite a young bird. Is there an average life expectancy tackling large prey like gulls or are there seasoned gull hawks who just keep on doing it time and again with style and ease?
Andy,
The style of flights seems to add extra risks possibly due to location of flights and the regularity of them.At times you fly the falcon in situations where for example a game hawk would not be flown.
I have unfortunately had several falcons meet untimely ends.Examples have been electrocution and I had a falcon strike a wire at full tilt also.
It only ever seems to happen to the good ones.

[Gozzhawk]

Best flight of my career .... Pere/saker off fist pumped right up to take lBB about 300ft , stunning, wouldn't have believed it unless i saw it with my own eyes.
One thing I would mention about landfill ... Mid summer on some vegetation you get loadsa wee mite/bug things , had a cast covered in them , nothing Johnsons anti mite didnt solve tho!

[Dagi]

i find one thing a bit risky when the gulls are at the heading and the compactors are crushing the rubbish you hope he doesn't get ran over if he kills a gull around the tipping site

[Berkut]

i find one thing a bit risky when the gulls are at the heading and the compactors are crushing the rubbish you hope he doesn't get ran over if he kills a gull around the tipping site
Dagi,
A very good point .My mate had a topping female peregrine catch a gull and it was killed by the compactor.To rub salt in the wound the gull got up and flew away.

[BlackShaheen1]

i had a bird chase a gull straight threw a flair stack and came out the other side totaly singed poor sod never got over the shock always i found it a good idea to keep in radio contact with the compactor driver even if i had to bye a little walki talki and give it to him

[BlueHawk]

What I have found is that a lot of falcons will "home" to the landfill site and if they miss a gull they will wait on in a fashion over the site until an opportunity presents itself.The gyr/peregrine did that last Monday.I would guesstimate the height at around 3000ft as he was a dot even through the binoculars.He put in a breathtaking stoop but ironically did not kill one of the gulls,although he did catch one later that day.


Neil
Do all gyr/sakers pump all the way through the stoop? I've only seen one flown at game. Can't decide what's more awesome to watch, peregrine just folding up and dropping like a bullet from the sky or a gyr hybrid pumping all the way down?!:rolleyes:

[Gozzhawk]

Forgot to add , fpere/skaer ..... weirdest kill from stoop, you wont believe this
.....a RAT , gull was taking rat into air , as bird stooped in gull dropped rat and bird took rat , Marx Brothers or what!!!

[Berkut]

Neil
Do all gyr/sakers pump all the way through the stoop? I've only seen one flown at game. Can't decide what's more awesome to watch, peregrine just folding up and dropping like a bullet from the sky or a gyr hybrid pumping all the way down?!:rolleyes:
The gyr hybrids I have flown have folded like a peregrine but on the level when they mean business they are awesome.

[Berkut]

Another good gull today.Taken in much the same style as yesterday and he landed within 50 yds of yesterdays kill.

[Berkut]

I have now had 7 gulls in 7 days since serious flying began after the buzzard attack.

[BushHawk]

I have now had 7 gulls in 7 days since serious flying began after the buzzard attack.
nice to hear your back on track,good luck

[Turumti]

Berkut,

Im really impressed with all your birds and your pics. However, I was wondering what telemetry set up do you use?

[Berkut]

Berkut,

Im really impressed with all your birds and your pics. However, I was wondering what telemetry set up do you use?
Turumti,
I use a Marshalls system.15 channels.I have a powermax transmitter tailmounted with either a micro or RT-Plus as a back up.I recently purchased one of the extra distance powermax as used in the gulf but it does not have the magnetic switch like the others so I am waiting on a replacement.
I have found it to be a very reliable system whether tracking falcons and eagles over longer distances or goshawks in dense forestry.

[KiteTrainer]

Had the chance to go out with Berkut today,needless to sat another gull bites the dust.Fine flight with excellent manners on the kill, must be one of those lucky guys

[KiteTrainer]

or just good at what he does

[SakerYZF]

Young female pere/saker on gull kill.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/DSC00499.jpg

[Alf]

I have been out with Neil on his landfill and it’s a great days sport, seen some excellent flying and a few kills from a great falconer.
He’s got the gull hawking job sown right up. Alf.



or just good at what he does

[Berkut]

Another gull today.Wind wrong for the slip but the bird can adjust and turn the flight round to suit. Struck the gull a dull one in the stoop and came in behind for the bind.
Witnessed by Kitetrainer.Makes a change someone else being there.

[andy-mu]

How many birds do you keep available for your landfill work Neil?

That's quite a sizeable bird in your last photo. No wonder the seagulls **** themselves. It is in the bag.

Also, due to the nature of landfills for bacteria etc, do you clean your birds feet or feathers after working the landfill

[Turumti]

Berkut,

I tried hawking aroud some grabage dumps and landfills last year, but the filth there soon made me change my mind. IMHO, the risk of one's bird falling ill after in such a toxin and bacteria rich zone is that can be taken lightly?

Furthermore, peices of broken glass, rusted steel bars, discarded rolls of barbed wire and burning trash are all disaster waiting to happen.

What has been your experience? (To me it seems that the landfills in UK are more sterile and safer than the ones here).

[Berkut]

Berkut,

I tried hawking aroud some grabage dumps and landfills last year, but the filth there soon made me change my mind. IMHO, the risk of one's bird falling ill after in such a toxin and bacteria rich zone is that can be taken lightly?

Furthermore, peices of broken glass, rusted steel bars, discarded rolls of barbed wire and burning trash are all disaster waiting to happen.

What has been your experience? (To me it seems that the landfills in UK are more sterile and safer than the ones here).
Turumti,
There are many hazards on a landfill but they are inspected by a government agency on a weekly basis and are punished on a point system for such hazards.Also the staff lose out on bonuses if they fail inspections so they are probably as clean as they can be.Another week and the gulls will rarely be seen there because of the effect a killing falcon has and most of my gullhawking will be round the local farms. In an ideal world I would rather not fly on landfills but they provide regular easy slips progessing to difficult as the falcon gains in ability and this now forms the mainstay of my business and puts food on the table.

[Berkut]

How many birds do you keep available for your landfill work Neil?

That's quite a sizeable bird in your last photo. No wonder the seagulls **** themselves. It is in the bag.

Also, due to the nature of landfills for bacteria etc, do you clean your birds feet or feathers after working the landfill
Andy,
When I started landfill work I used to have 3 or 4 killing falcons,but as time goes on the gulls are scared shitless and do not return to the landfill for days on end and you have to drive round for your slips and it is sometimes difficult to find enough slips for more than one falcon. The gulls in the fields also recognise your vehicle. Now,I make 2 gull hawks and have a semi serious pursuit falcon/lure bird.Once the 2 falcons are killing well ,I push up the second ones weight and it is held in reserve incase something happens to the first one,or till the spring when the first one is rested.
The lure bird is flown before the killing falcon is on weight or after it has killed a gull.In the these circumstances the gulls do not know the difference.
I always clean the falcons feet after a kill and spray down the feathers.

[andy-mu]

What do you clean them with? and do you think cleaning is probably a good practice to adopt in general even if you don't do landfill. After all you never know where all these dirty little creatures have been before your bird wrings it's neck. I would welcome your opinion, and would like to further re-iterate that the content quality of this thread has been excellent

[Berkut]

Cheers for the positive comments Andy.
I wash all my birds feet on a regular basis.I use a toothbrush or a nail brush with soapy water and then I rinse them. When I can get a hold of it I use the alcohol-based handwash used in hospitals.
If they are not dirty I rub hand cream into them or Savlon ,particularly the eagles and it brings the feet up a treat.

[Berkut]

A fantastic flight today,if not unusual.
Strong wind and a slip of around 250 yds.He selected an adult herring gull for some reason,even though there were plenty juveniles.He climbed all the way way towards the flock and had a great height advantage by the time he had picked his target.He struck it in the initial stoop and at that point I thought that was flight over but it gave itself a shake and off it went. He must have had around 15 - 20 stoops at the gull with some tail chasing as well, and in total struck it 3 times.
The gull ultimately had him beaten and as it straight lined it away, climbing all the time ,to a point where they were possibly around 700 - 800 ft, with him on its tail,he flipped over into a vertical stoop and clobbered a juvenile that seemed to be tagging along for the view a couple of hundred feet below.
It spiralled down like a helicopter and he bound to it. I ended up with my first major trackdown of the season as I had under-estimated the distance due to watching the whole flight through the binoculars.
I started tracking on foot and by the time I realised the distance there was no turning back.About an hour later ( most of the time I was negotiating heavy undergrowth ) I found him in the middle of a wooded area of Roslin Glen
with his gull and he had fully plucked the breast but had not started eating.

[Hacker]

Neil,
makes for a nicer picture though, with a picturesqe wood as a backdrop.

[Berkut]

Lifes full of highs and lows.I had one of the heftiest kicks in the knackers today I have ever had.
I have had a few of these in the past but always give myself a shake and crack on.
Today was no different.
I went to the landfill at 1400hrs.There were no gulls in so I had an hours kip to get rid of the migraine this mornings events had given me.When I woke up at 1500hrs it was blowing a gale and there were around 20 gulls winging about the site.I thought I would just fire a couple of shots to clear the gulls and give the falcon a miss today as I wasn,t really in the mood.
However me being me,30 seconds later the falcon left the glove and I ended up rooted to the spot for a full 25 minutes while I watched the best gull flight I have seen in my life. 3 or 4 times the falcon and gull plummeted literally from the clouds.I lost sight of both,until the telemetry told me he was airborne and then I picked them up again in the binoculars competing for height.In the final stoop the falcon waited for a few seconds before following the gull and as the gull levelled out the falcon struck it hard and turned and bound to it. What amazes me is that some of the flights can last 30 seconds ,but this one lasted a full 25 minutes and it was blowing a gale.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

are there any dvds on gull hawking as it sees rather interesting and certianly sounds exciting!

[Berkut]

are there any dvds on gull hawking as it sees rather interesting and certianly sounds exciting!
I keep threatening to make one, but I think I would need someone independant to do the filming.Most of this years flights have developed right in front of me.
I don,t know of any dvd,s but there may be some out there.
Gull hawking in my book is one of the most under-rated branches of the art but certainly is very exciting.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

I keep threatening to make one, but I think I would need someone independant to do the filming.Most of this years flights have developed right in front of me.
I don,t know of any dvd,s but there may be some out there.
Gull hawking in my book is one of the most under-rated branches of the art but certainly is very exciting.
perhaps you could approach the BBC and ask to borrow one of their wildlife photographers to do a documentary on falconry, follow a year in the life of a falconry bird and mabey track and film a wild counterpart for comparison. could be a good PR stunt for falconry.

[Berkut]

perhaps you could approach the BBC and ask to borrow one of their wildlife photographers to do a documentary on falconry, follow a year in the life of a falconry bird and mabey track and film a wild counterpart for comparison. could be a good PR stunt for falconry.
Have been approached to do this with the eagles,may well suggest this as part 2.

[Hacker]

I used to do video film production years ago blasting around the deserts filming rallies, any one interested give me a pm, could be easily sorted.

[Berkut]

I used to do video film production years ago blasting around the deserts filming rallies, any one interested give me a pm, could be easily sorted.
Richard,
I will call you over the weekend to discuss.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

i think it would be fantastic if the BBC done a whole series of this, following the "adventures" of a falconry bird, from the bird hatching to it being put up to moult at the end of its first season, and film a wild counterpart doing much the same. it would be fantastic PR, and may help to prevent folk buying a bird they cant look after if it was done in a way that showed how much work is raly involved in training birds.

[Berkut]

i think it would be fantastic if the BBC done a whole series of this, following the "adventures" of a falconry bird, from the bird hatching to it being put up to moult at the end of its first season, and film a wild counterpart doing much the same. it would be fantastic PR, and may help to prevent folk buying a bird they cant look after if it was done in a way that showed how much work is raly involved in training birds.
I agree,the only problem I have found in these circumstances is that the cameramen/women think the bird is a circus animal and don,t seem to see it from our angle.They always want one more take and it can be infuriating.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

I agree,the only problem I have found in these circumstances is that the cameramen/women think the bird is a circus animal and don,t seem to see it from our angle.They always want one more take and it can be infuriating.

surely though a professional wildlife photographer would understand that the birds are still esentialy wild creatures, and if you were to explain to what the bird is likely to do but to try and film it as they would a wild falcon, they would get the picture!

[Hacker]

You have to realise that making a film is expensive, i always had this problem when filming motor racing through the deserts, it cost money.
Maybe the forum would like to commision a falconry welfare dvd that could be bought by newbies? Could also supply full on hunting dvd`s, what do people want?

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

perhaps this should be moved to a new tread before one of the moderatoers shouts at us:rolleyes:
if the BBC were to do it, it would cost pittace to them, i mean it cost millions for them to do that planet earth thing, and they are still filming it are they not?!

[Falcon]

perhaps this should be moved to a new tread before one of the moderatoers shouts at us:rolleyes:
if the BBC were to do it, it would cost pittace to them, i mean it cost millions for them to do that planet earth thing, and they are still filming it are they not?!


don't worry one of them will split the thread and start it in a new section for ya

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

lol, done it before i get shouted at!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Berkut]

We have digressed a bit.

[Hacker]

I do not think you realise the cost of filming and editing a production for tv.
I have produced films for the BBC on a couple of occasions and you would not believe the cost.
This is why most secondary hobbies never get covered to be shown on terrestial tv stations.
You have to remember that we are a minority and do you want to put up the funds>?

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

lol, sorry!
do black headed gulls make good quarry? what falcon would suit them best?
im aware they need a seperate licence, is it an easy licence to obtain or is it quite strict?

[Berkut]

lol, sorry!
do black headed gulls make good quarry? what falcon would suit them best?
im aware they need a seperate licence, is it an easy licence to obtain or is it quite strict?
They do make good good quarry,although the ones I have taken have been incidental.A good tiercel peregrine,pere/saker or smaller gyr/pere male would do the trick.The licenses are not difficult to obtain and cost the price of a stamp.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

hmm got me thinkin now.....8-)

[Berkut]

hmm got me thinkin now.....8-)
You are not far from me.We can catch up some time to discuss.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

that would be grand! id certainly love to see some birds in action, or even just to hear more about them! ive been watching this thread for some time and been very interested! plenty gulls round me!
lol, go vissions of slipping something out the kitchen window now, a neighbour buts a load of bread out every morning and a group af blackbacks are usualy first on the scene!:lol:

[Berkut]

Adult herring gull today.Contrast to yesterdays flight.Between leaving the fist and binding to the gull was 20-30 seconds.
We have digressed a bit on the thread and you can only look at so many pictures of a falcon on a gull,so unless its something out the ordinary I,ll forget photos for now.
Might be worth talking about what falcons are best for the job, depending on
species to be taken.I,ll talk about what I know from personal experience which includes falcons flown not only by me, but those who work for, or with me.
Most of my flights are at herring gulls, and although I fly on landfill sites I do equally as much traditional gull hawking around fields of stubble,pasture or plough.These type of slips can be carefully planned.
Peregrines - Overall I have found peregrines to be disappointing.They seem to lack perseverance and will give up when a hybrid may have tried even harder,however when you get a good one it tends to be a very good one and if flown correctly, and if the slips are planned well, a good female peregrine will take gulls to the exclusion of other quarry.Tiercels are good if flown in a cast at herring gulls and would probably be excellent either in a cast or flown singularly at the smaller species.
Pere/Sakers - I have found these hybrids seem to take longer to mature mentally.They are more likely to home to the area where they are flown and less likely to specialise in gulls.The females and males I have flown have been happy to wait on ,in a fashion, and take whatever happens to fly beneath them,be it crow,gull, pigeon or whatever.
Gyr/sakers - Again they can be disappointing but if you get a good one, it is a very good one.The problem I have found is that often when they have done all the hard work and are in a commanding position over the gull they give up when the gull was actually beaten.They are great in high winds.
Good ones seem happy to specialise after a while if thought is put into the slips in the early stages.
Pere/Prairie - The one I saw flown regularly was a real aggressive hunter,a good flyer and would not specialise on gulls but would take anything with wings.I classed it as being similar to a lurcher with wings.I would like to try a female from scratch.
Gyr/Peregrines - I have found these to be consistently good at gulls.Males as well as females are really good and put huge amounts of effort into the flights.Females are better only from the the point of view of extra size but the down side is the cost.If I had to decide on a falcon,taking into account the likelihood of it taking gulls ,it would be a gyr/peregrine, male or female every day of the week.The good thing about the males if thay catch a few juveniles initially they are less likely to get severe punishment from the beaks as they are soft.By the time they end up taking an adult gull they have learned to immobilise the head and beak.My male has taken 2 adults including one today and it has had them well trussed before I arrived on the scene.
Today was his 19th gull of the season.
Sakers - I have seen sakers take gulls but not to any degree that I could comment on consistency.

[SeagulBasher]

hi there guys
been reading the threads on gull hawking very interesting i too work a landfill slte in wales and have seen some awsome flights over the years its difficult to film them on your own but i have managed to get some footage from last year and the bigining of this year with my female pere been watching it this morning it certainly gives you the erge to grab the bird and go!!!!!

[Berkut]

hi there guys
been reading the threads on gull hawking very interesting i too work a landfill slte in wales and have seen some awsome flights over the years its difficult to film them on your own but i have managed to get some footage from last year and the bigining of this year with my female pere been watching it this morning it certainly gives you the erge to grab the bird and go!!!!!
Cheers for the input.How does your peregrine do.I would be interested to hear about your experiences and views.
All the best,
Neil

[Austringer84]

I love the content of this. Any chance "saegulbasher" could/would put your footage on here for general access? Neil andall other people inputting this thread keepit comming...

(and Neil I have to admit I love all the fotos and havent got "Bored" of your falcons on gulls!)

[Berkut]

I love the content of this. Any chance "saegulbasher" could/would put your footage on here for general access? Neil andall other people inputting this thread keepit comming...

(and Neil I have to admit I love all the fotos and havent got "Bored" of your falcons on gulls!)
Cheers for that I,ll keep the photos coming. :supz:

[Hound]

Berkut you have made this topic bloody brill keep the photos coming i for one aint bored you them

[GyrXPeales]

Neil looks like you have a hit on your hands. The bird comparison earlier today was brilliant. Good information and insight.
It confirms something I've known for a while. It was a happy day when the Arab falconry market mainly needed female gyrXperegrines. That left us with an affordable, intelligent, tractable, absolutely devastating bird in the male. They might not be good for everything, but they seem to be good at everything they do.
Keep the posts commin' Neil!
Regards,
Jeff

[Saker Mad]

exellent thread im amazed at your knolage keep it up mate you got me hooked :goodman: :supz:

[Kevin Massey]

Cheers for that I,ll keep the photos coming. :supz:


:supz: :supz: :supz:

[Sandeep]

Adult herring gull today.Contrast to yesterdays flight.Between leaving the fist and binding to the gull was 20-30 seconds.
We have digressed a bit on the thread and you can only look at so many pictures of a falcon on a gull,so unless its something out the ordinary I,ll forget photos for now.
Might be worth talking about what falcons are best for the job, depending on
species to be taken.I,ll talk about what I know from personal experience which includes falcons flown not only by me, but those who work for, or with me.
Most of my flights are at herring gulls, and although I fly on landfill sites I do equally as much traditional gull hawking around fields of stubble,pasture or plough.These type of slips can be carefully planned.
Peregrines - Overall I have found peregrines to be disappointing.They seem to lack perseverance and will give up when a hybrid may have tried even harder,however when you get a good one it tends to be a very good one and if flown correctly, and if the slips are planned well, a good female peregrine will take gulls to the exclusion of other quarry.Tiercels are good if flown in a cast at herring gulls and would probably be excellent either in a cast or flown singularly at the smaller species.
Pere/Sakers - I have found these hybrids seem to take longer to mature mentally.They are more likely to home to the area where they are flown and less likely to specialise in gulls.The females and males I have flown have been happy to wait on ,in a fashion, and take whatever happens to fly beneath them,be it crow,gull, pigeon or whatever.
Gyr/sakers - Again they can be disappointing but if you get a good one, it is a very good one.The problem I have found is that often when they have done all the hard work and are in a commanding position over the gull they give up when the gull was actually beaten.They are great in high winds.
Good ones seem happy to specialise after a while if thought is put into the slips in the early stages.
Pere/Prairie - The one I saw flown regularly was a real aggressive hunter,a good flyer and would not specialise on gulls but would take anything with wings.I classed it as being similar to a lurcher with wings.I would like to try a female from scratch.
Gyr/Peregrines - I have found these to be consistently good at gulls.Males as well as females are really good and put huge amounts of effort into the flights.Females are better only from the the point of view of extra size but the down side is the cost.If I had to decide on a falcon,taking into account the likelihood of it taking gulls ,it would be a gyr/peregrine, male or female every day of the week.The good thing about the males if thay catch a few juveniles initially they are less likely to get severe punishment from the beaks as they are soft.By the time they end up taking an adult gull they have learned to immobilise the head and beak.My male has taken 2 adults including one today and it has had them well trussed before I arrived on the scene.
Today was his 19th gull of the season.
Sakers - I have seen sakers take gulls but not to any degree that I could comment on consistency.

Brilliant piece of info for the guys looking to buy falcons for gull hawking...
Like I said earlier your threads are very informative.... Cheers to you Niel..
:supz: :supz: :supz:

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

im another that has yet to bore of the pics of falcons on gulls, keep em comming!:supz:

[SakerYZF]

Hes my Sakeret on his 71st Kill , taken on friday so he got a good feeding up:-D

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00550.jpg

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

nice one! are sakerettes good on gulls? or is he more a one off?

[SakerYZF]

One off IMO, hes a real special bird, imprinted and tame hacked at the tip , he just started taking gulls and never really stopped , he has become more selective now though and has a preferance for the younger gulls.

[SakerYZF]

Infact sod it thought i'd upload a few more.....

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/Gullno15.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/Gull10-1.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00391.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00372.jpg

[SakerYZF]

And some more

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00341.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00106.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/DSC00057.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c292/Sakeryzf/Rossi/45-DuskKilling-1.jpg

[Turumti]

Thats an awesome skret you got there. In my opinion, such good sakrets are hard to come by, and how well the bird ultimately turns out, depends a lot more on the falconer than on the bird.

Having said that, good sakrets are any day better than average sakers, they will do everything their bigger sisters can, but they just do it with more style.

[SeagulBasher]

i will see wat i can do i`me not very good on here at the moment

[SakerYZF]

Flew Rossi for the last time this year, I plan to use him in the future for a breeding project ... all i need now is a female peregrine, think i might imprint one next year and fly that exclusively at gulls.

I have a few pics of his last kill , I’ll upload once i figure out where I’ve misplaced the camera:-P.

[Berkut]

I know things are upside down on this forum at the moment but I put a couple of posts on the other day and they have gone.

Anyway, gull number 25 today.25 gulls in 28 days.The 3 days he failed to catch was when he was recovering from injury.
He has become a very accomplished yet when conditions allow a very stylish gull hawk.When I flew him today he cut his gull out from the flock and stuck to it,binding on the 9th stoop and during the chase always worked hard to maintain his height advantage.

[Berkut]

Another topping gull today.Cut it out ,followed its every move while remaining well above it. Single stoop when he struck the gull hard and it fell like a lead balloon. When I tracked him in a deep gorge of dense woodland I let him have a good feed and discovered he had shattered the gulls wing in the stoop.

[KevGem1]

hi burkut, iv been following this thread from the begining and have found it very interesting and informative. keep it coming as i am in the process of training my new falcon for rook,crow and gull hopefully.iv just flew her free for the first time today and iam very pleased with her progress.so some more info on the fitness regime and how you go about entering your birds would be very helpfull? cheers KEV

[Taffwall]

what a brilliant thread berkut. something in it for newbies(like myself) and the experienced falconer. ive been engrosed.what an advert for gull hawking. something i will have to consider in the future:supz:

[Berkut]

hi burkut, iv been following this thread from the begining and have found it very interesting and informative. keep it coming as i am in the process of training my new falcon for rook,crow and gull hopefully.iv just flew her free for the first time today and iam very pleased with her progress.so some more info on the fitness regime and how you go about entering your birds would be very helpfull? cheers KEV

Kev,
Gull hawking is a very under-rated branch of the sport. Out of interest which species of falcon are you flying.? The reason I ask is that some birds tend not to want to specialise in gulls and are more of an all rounder which sounds what you need. I personally prefer a gull specialist and to get one I enter it on the juvenile herring gulls as they start coming to the landfill,usually around the second week in August. If the falcon happens to catch a crow I NEVER let it feed from it.If it persists in catching crows I put a couple of drops of Tabasco on the breast meat and that usually does the trick,however I always let them have a good crop of gull if they catch one and I single kill for the first 30 gulls.After that I will double kill if circumstances allow. I have already said it on the thread but this years gyr/peregrine male is the best gull hawk I have had for its stage in the game.
Regardless, if you make a good gull hawk it tends to be a very good one and the flights can be spectacular.

[KevGem1]

hi berkut,the young bird i am training this year is a female pere/prairie,as you may or may not know i had a hell of a lot of trouble getting a female pere/saker entered on crow, i tried everything to get her going on crow to no avail,and i do mean everything, an old mate has took her now and is going to try and make a game hawk out of her as he has access to alot of pheasant and duck where as i didnt i hope she shows her potential on game if she doesnt want to take the crow.i hope to get the pere/prairie to take rook/crow and gulls if possible as i do have access to a landfil,so any info i can get on good methods on entering etc would be gratefully received cheers KEV

[Berkut]

hi berkut,the young bird i am training this year is a female pere/prairie,as you may or may not know i had a hell of a lot of trouble getting a female pere/saker entered on crow, i tried everything to get her going on crow to no avail,and i do mean everything, an old mate has took her now and is going to try and make a game hawk out of her as he has access to alot of pheasant and duck where as i didnt i hope she shows her potential on game if she doesnt want to take the crow.i hope to get the pere/prairie to take rook/crow and gulls if possible as i do have access to a landfil,so any info i can get on good methods on entering etc would be gratefully received cheers KEV

Kev,
You will have a good chance with a pere/prairie.Pere/sakers seem to take a bit longer to mature mentally for some reason.We should probably speak on the phone.Pm me your number and a convenient time to call and I will give you a bell over the next day or so.
Neil.

[Berkut]

I already mentioned Mondays flight but forgot to mention that the last 3 juvenile gulls have had a thick coating of fat on the breast.This has to be avoided as it holds the bird high and takes the edge of its appetite,from a hunting perspective.Mondays gull had this layer of fat but due to the precarious position the falcon and gull landed my mind was on other things and I inadvertantly allowed it the fat from one side of the breast.As a result I should have known better and not flown the falcon yesterday. The final quarter ounce would not shift, even although I waited and flew him 2hrs later than normal. He did chase a number of gulls during his 1 hr 20 minutes of continuous flight but he was only playing with them. He would circle and gain height a couple of miles from the landfill and hurtle back to stoop at a gull half heartedly before repeating the process 4 or 5 times,eventually returning to the lure for a single chick.
I was very happy with his fitness, as there was a stiff breeze blowing and he never looked like pitching at any point.Also he kept returning to the landfill.
Today was a different kettle of fish.He was down an eighth of an ounce on his normal weight and there was no messing about.He quickly gained a height advantage on the flock of around 40 gulls ( 300 yard slip ),singled out the one and only juvenile black back,walloped it in the stoop,flicked over and bound to it after a decent throw up.

[Berkut]

Gull number 30 today. Had a few problems levelling his weigh since he ate the fat from a gull breast last Monday but seems to be sorted now.
Two flights yesterday but no kill although still entertaining to watch.Problem was that there was no wind.
Today was a very good flight.35 minutes of flying time at 5 seperate gulls.
He bound to the first one,a juvenile black back but lost it on the ground. Made height and struck an adult herring gull but couldn,t gain a height advantage again due to lack of wind.Circled and slowly gained height again and had 2 excellent ringing flights with juvenile herring gulls but was beaten on both occasions because of lack of wind.
Finally, he spent around 20 minutes circling the landfill gaining height and seemed to be waiting for a gull to show.He wasn,t disappointed.I hadn,t seen the gull as I was too busy trying to keep him in view in the binoculars,but he suddenly folded from around 1500ft and struck the gull,killing it in the stoop,landing in the stubble field 200yds behind the landfill.
He seems to genuinely home to the landfill. I am sure from the height he is attaining he will be able to see gulls elsewhere but seems content to circle the landfill and wait for his chance. It makes things easier for me and means I see most of the flights and I have enjoyed one or two lengthy ones over the last month or so.
Problems with photos for some reason but will post some soon.

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

sounds like the birds are doing well! keep the storries (and pics) coming:supz:

[Alf]

Neil its sounds like your job is money for nothing and your chicks for free <g> and your getting paid for this!
Great stuff mate Alf.


Gull number 30 today. Had a few problems levelling his weigh since he ate the fat from a gull breast last Monday but seems to be sorted now.
Two flights yesterday but no kill although still entertaining to watch.Problem was that there was no wind.
Today was a very good flight.35 minutes of flying time at 5 seperate gulls.
He bound to the first one,a juvenile black back but lost it on the ground. Made height and struck an adult herring gull but couldn,t gain a height advantage again due to lack of wind.Circled and slowly gained height again and had 2 excellent ringing flights with juvenile herring gulls but was beaten on both occasions because of lack of wind.
Finally, he spent around 20 minutes circling the landfill gaining height and seemed to be waiting for a gull to show.He wasn,t disappointed.I hadn,t seen the gull as I was too busy trying to keep him in view in the binoculars,but he suddenly folded from around 1500ft and struck the gull,killing it in the stoop,landing in the stubble field 200yds behind the landfill.
He seems to genuinely home to the landfill. I am sure from the height he is attaining he will be able to see gulls elsewhere but seems content to circle the landfill and wait for his chance. It makes things easier for me and means I see most of the flights and I have enjoyed one or two lengthy ones over the last month or so.
Problems with photos for some reason but will post some soon.

[Berkut]

Neil its sounds like your job is money for nothing and your chicks for free <g> and your getting paid for this!
Great stuff mate Alf.

Something like that Alf.:supz:
PS, I,ll give you a bell this coming week.

[Berkut]

After yesterdays flight I was all wound up ,looking forward to flying the falcon today. I went into the landfill around 2pm and there were about 50 gulls in.
Decent wind blowing, slipped the falcon from around 300yds.He quickly made height,selected his gull and bound to it about 300 - 400 ft up,coming down in the same stubble field as yesterday. I drove round and instead of seeing him in the field on the gull, he was circling around 30ft up and at the same time was being mobbed by an adult herring gull. I also thought he had something unusual hanging below him. I called him to a bare lure pad and up to the fist and was horrified to see his leg swinging freely. I got him to the vet and initial examination revealed a fracture above the first main joint of the leg.
A splint has been fitted in the meantime and I will know better what the prognosis is tomorrow. I don,t know how it has happened.He may have landed awkwardly with the gull or landed on a fence.I suppose I will never know. You just need to read yesterdays post and you will see what he meant to me.Hopefully he will come through it all ,but suffice to say I am gutted and could throw the towel in.

[Falcon]

Totally gutted for you Neil, hope the prognosis is good, really don't know what to say to help pick you up when your down.

[Alf]

Neil you are bigger than that mate! I am real sorry to hear this but you know the score flying landfill and gulls?
Hope you hawk turns out alright mate, just got to keep punching on! Alf.



but suffice to say I am gutted and could throw the towel in.

[Berkut]

Neil you are bigger than that mate! I am real sorry to hear this but you know the score flying landfill and gulls?
Hope you hawk turns out alright mate, just got to keep punching on! Alf.

Cheers Alf. It,s amazing nothing ever happens to the ****,always to the good ones.

[GyrXPeales]

Really gutted for you Neil, but Alf is right, just gotta keep goin'. I've got a mate that had the same thing happened 3 years ago. His silver gyrkin hit a chicken wrong and snapped his leg like a toothpick in the same spot yours did with the bone protruding. Eight weeks later he was up and flying again, and better than he ever was before. Better a leg than a wing mate.
We'll be prayin' for you and your bird, It'll work out you'll see.
Keep us posted.
Best Regards As Always,
Jeff

[Berkut]

Really gutted for you Neil, but Alf is right, just gotta keep goin'. I've got a mate that had the same thing happened 3 years ago. His silver gyrkin hit a chicken wrong and snapped his leg like a toothpick in the same spot yours did with the bone protruding. Eight weeks later he was up and flying again, and better than he ever was before. Better a leg than a wing mate.
We'll be prayin' for you and your bird, It'll work out you'll see.
Keep us posted.
Best Regards As Always,
Jeff

Cheers Jeff.From what you are describing it is exactly the same injury.I could feel the break myself before I got to the vet.Here,s hoping.
Regards,
Neil.

[GyrXPeales]

Cheers Mate, chin up!:supz: :supz:
Jeff

[Saker Mad]

GUTTED FOR YOU MATE hope the bird makes a quick recovery and the tales of the landfill start again soon

[TiercelJim]

sorry to hear of this niel,hope he pulls thru allright.
all the best,jim

[Accipter-Gentilis]

what a KICK IN THE NACKERS M8:twisted:

[Berkut]

what a KICK IN THE NACKERS M8:twisted:

Exactly how I feel mate. The pleasure I had from that bird was incredible.
After yesterdays flight I never slept a wink looking forward to todays flight and this happens.Hopefully a clean break which will heal well, providing he comes through the the anaesthetic tomorrow.

[Accipter-Gentilis]

providing he comes through the the anaesthetic tomorrow.

i hope so m8 just think positive and let us no plz.

chin up m8:yawinkle:

[LongVVing]

A quarry licence is required for black headed and common gulls.As for the lure,
gull wings initially then I dispense with them as the falcons seem to enjoy a real wresting match with them.Early training I shoot gulls in the head with the .22 and feed from the breast and simulate a bit rough and tumble and then early August ambush juvenile herring gulls at close range with the falcon.

Neil,
When completing your application for a quarry licence I would be interested to know how you complete the quarry species section. Do you have to estimate the number of bird species you intend to kill.
EG black headed and common gulls.

Great thread by the way,

Mark.

[OutFlying]

Neil,
When completing your application for a quarry licence I would be interested to know how you complete the quarry species section. Do you have to estimate the number of bird species you intend to kill.
EG black headed and common gulls.

Great thread by the way,

Mark.

Just ring Defra and ask how many you are permitted to take, makes filling the form in easier.

Jim.

[KevGem1]

hi neil,just caught up on the tread very sad to hear about your bird.what an absolute bummer hope every thing goes well with him mate.when we have had a chat on the phone he sounds like a real top bird and like you said it only seems to happen to the good ones.fingers crossed for you mate that things turn out ok.with a bit of luck he will be knocking **** out of them gulls in the not so distant future. all the very best KEV

[Berkut]

Just ring Defra and ask how many you are permitted to take, makes filling the form in easier.

Jim.

I agree with the above but tend to estimate 20-25 of each.

[Berkut]

The falcon was x-rayed today and has a clean fracture of the tibea.
Unfortunately as it is very near the joint it cannot be pinned normally but can be repaired. A complication is that as it is near the joint, there is a concern that the joint may fuse.The op had to be cancelled today but is scheduled for tomorrow,so my fingers are crossed.
The vet says the fracture is consistant with a twist, due to a bad landing with the gull or possibly on the ground ,holding the gull with one foot, while trying to gain some leverage from the ground with the other foot.

[LongVVing]

Sounds like a very similar injury to what I had with a pere tiercel. He caught the lure and as he was dragging it along the ground his leg was wrenched back. He only had the lure by the one foot so it took the full force of the pull and twist.
After he was fixed up he did get full control back of the foot and leg. The only thing I noticed was that when he flew the leg did hang down slightly instead of being tucked under his tail.

I really hope everything works out well with your bird as reading the adventures you have with him you can tell what he means to you.

Best wishes,

Mark.

[Berkut]

Sounds like a very similar injury to what I had with a pere tiercel. He caught the lure and as he was dragging it along the ground his leg was wrenched back. He only had the lure by the one foot so it took the full force of the pull and twist.
After he was fixed up he did get full control back of the foot and leg. The only thing I noticed was that when he flew the leg did hang down slightly instead of being tucked under his tail.

I really hope everything works out well with your bird as reading the adventures you have with him you can tell what he means to you.

Best wishes,

Mark.

Mark,
Thanks for the comments.Much appreciated.I,ll see what tomorrow brings.
Neil.

[Berkut]

hi neil,just caught up on the tread very sad to hear about your bird.what an absolute bummer hope every thing goes well with him mate.when we have had a chat on the phone he sounds like a real top bird and like you said it only seems to happen to the good ones.fingers crossed for you mate that things turn out ok.with a bit of luck he will be knocking **** out of them gulls in the not so distant future. all the very best KEV

Cheers Kev.

[Berkut]

The falcon has come though the anaesthetic ok.The op was quite complex and took 4 hours. They have managed to leave the joint mobile so hopefully it won,t fuse. They feel there may be some nerve damage,but only time will tell regarding that.I have to pick him up tomorrow afternoon and we will see how it goes.

[Kevin Massey]

Neil i really hope things go well for ya bud

[Accipter-Gentilis]

The falcon has come though the anaesthetic ok

great news;-)

wish you well neil good luck

[Gosman_2]

you"v had enough bad luck lately so your well over due for some good luck :supz:

[Saker Mad]

best of luck with the falcons and your recovery after such a shock hope things get better mate keep us updated :goodman:

[B C]

Fingers crossed for a full and speedy recovery Neil

B C

[Berkut]

Cheers folks.Your good wishes are appreciated.

[SteveL]

It's good to here your falcon is on the mend fingers crossed.This is the thing with gull hawking, we all take on good flights at the landfill but its always a risk factor you never no what the outcome of the flight will be.But what else can you do when it's your job.

[LongVVing]

Neil,

Good to hear the nird has come thru good. Hope it continues to repair well and he will be back to his old self.

All the best,
Mark.

[LongVVing]

my typing is getting worse these days. Bird not nird.
Jeez Im bloody illiterate!

[Berkut]

my typing is getting worse these days. Bird not nird.
Jeez Im bloody illiterate!

I knew what you meant Mark.:lol:

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

just been catching up with the latest on this post, gutted for you mate, i know how you must feel. wishing your falcon the speediest of recovery!

[KevGem1]

fingers crossed for you neil, KEV

[Altai]

I hope he will be ok. Rough game this gull hawking!!

[Berkut]

Got the falcon back from the vet.The leg has obviously had to be completely plucked and with the brace and the fact it is totally black and blue it looks terrible.He can clench the talon but apart from that he cannot move it,or the leg. His feather condition was ok apart from being a bitted shitted up so I sprayed the primaries and tail feathers with warm water. I couldn,t believe it though,he roused and his deck feather fitted with the tail mount came out.It had dried blood on it so I think it must have happened one of the times he was being cast over the last couple of days.
His future gull hawking looks unlikely unless there is drastic improvement in the leg,but as it is early days only time will tell.

Now trying to get my hands on a gyr/peregrine before it is too late to see me through the winter.

[Saker Mad]

give it time mate he is only just back fromthe vet let it heal and you never know you may be suprised :goodman:

[Berkut]

give it time mate he is only just back fromthe vet let it heal and you never know you may be suprised :goodman:

Will do , it,s the initial shock of seeing the poor ****** in that state.

[Saker Mad]

wait till you see me after my op il look like ***** aswell mate (i do anyway but never mind ) allways look on the bright side of life as the monty pytons say

ian

[Puzo]

Sad to hear this. Fate always seems to strike where it hurts the most & you've certaily had more than your fair share of bad luck for this year. But he's survived the accident, the operation & the anaesthetic. so this time next year, with a bit of luck, a lot of care, rest & good feeding, he'll be up & killing like it never happened. I hope so!

[SakerYZF]

Sorry neil just caught up , im feeling so sorry for you and the bird... like you said , never happens to the bad ones ... sods law again:(

Really hope he makes a good recovery for you , never give up and all that:-)

Best wishes , to you and your little star ,
Chris.

[SeagulBasher]

very excited today my young prairie took her second gull
she's starting to get the hang of it now...:supz:

[Saker Mad]

well done m8 keep em comin:supz:

[SeagulBasher]

sorry to here about your bird breaking its leg mate
i too had a pere x saker break its leg on a gull six weeks ago
took her to mark evans in cardiff and can say he did a fantastic job
she had the pin removed last friday and she's allready sitting and looking lik it had never even happend
hes told me too free loft her for two weeks then she can start gentle exercise but i'll leave her until next season now not the best way to spend 700 quid but its looking good now
anyway hope it all goes well for your little lad
all the best
colin.....

[GameHawker]

very excited today my young prairie took her second gull
she's starting to get the hang of it now...:supz:

Nice one never flown seagulls before flown to pere/sakers on rooks and crows. Might have to try it out one day.

Keep it up

Carl

[Puzo]

I couldn,t believe it though,he roused and his deck feather fitted with the tail mount came out.It had dried blood on it so I think it must have happened one of the times he was being cast over the last couple of days.

Could this have been caused by being attacked by gulls on the ground?

[Berkut]

I haven,t had a falcon attacked on the ground before by seagulls.They don,t seem to have the bottle.

[SeagulBasher]

my female prairie took her third gull today
probably her best one yet but still not that exciting but its early days yet
still i'me really pleased with her progress hopefully it wont be long before shes all over the sky after them.

[Goshawker 20]

any news neil:?:

hope all is well mate

[Kevin Massey]

I can see a great opening of permission to hunt off the back of gull and crow falcons:!:

[Berkut]

Falcon at the vets today.The break in the leg is healing a treat but the worry is the long term tendon/nerve damage as the foot remains clenched.I am working it( the foot ) several times a day on the advice of the vet but no progress as yet. X-rays in 2-3 weeks and we will see where we go from there.
The falcon appears in good spirits though, which is half the battle.

[KevGem1]

hi neil,glad to hear the little fella is coming on well fingers crossed for you mate. KEV

[SnakeHuts]

Neil,

glad theres progress, hope the exercise eventually releases the tendons

[Gosman_2]

Dont worry just yet about tendons/nerves damage a hawk can convince you and your vet for months its paralised then all of a suden start useing the damaged limb think positive :supz:

[Hacker]

I have given one of my guys at a landfill site two birds, one is "Bewit" the Pere/Saker i bought from Terry at Kentish.
Now the guy that is working for me has tavelled all around the world flying and working birds since he was young and he says he has not seen a bird like her.
Even when cropped up she is glued to anything that moves.
She should be flying free next week so will keep you posted.
He also has a perexLanner/Pere falcon that is due to go free shortly so will post some piccy`s.
Both birds are just coming down in weight gradually.
Lovelly landfill site, surrounded by game shoots and loads of mature lakes and ponds which shall provide some excellent waterfowl hawking, oh and loads of bunnies, a hawking mecca!!!!!

[Berkut]

Encouraging signs from the falcon today.Taking the weight on his leg now and again,sometimes with the foot open. Hopefully a sign of a better recovery than I expected. Time will tell and thanks for all the positive comments.
Neil.

[Dean]

I have given one of my guys at a landfill site two birds, one is "Bewit" the Pere/Saker i bought from Terry at Kentish.
Now the guy that is working for me has tavelled all around the world flying and working birds since he was young and he says he has not seen a bird like her.
Even when cropped up she is glued to anything that moves.
She should be flying free next week so will keep you posted.
He also has a perexLanner/Pere falcon that is due to go free shortly so will post some piccy`s.
Both birds are just coming down in weight gradually.
Lovelly landfill site, surrounded by game shoots and loads of mature lakes and ponds which shall provide some excellent waterfowl hawking, oh and loads of bunnies, a hawking mecca!!!!!Got any jobs Mate:supz: Then I can **** this contract off!!!!!!:(

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Encouraging signs from the falcon today.Taking the weight on his leg now and again,sometimes with the foot open. Hopefully a sign of a better recovery than I expected. Time will tell and thanks for all the positive comments.
Neil.

Thats good news Neil - best of luck to you both.

FHF

[Saker Mad]

pleased to hear things are getting better

[Kevin Massey]

Agree neil hope progress if good.....

[SakerYZF]

Awsome Neil good to hear, power of possitive thinking n all that , never fails:-)

Chris.

[Puzo]

Falcon at the vets today.The break in the leg is healing a treat but the worry is the long term tendon/nerve damage as the foot remains clenched.I am working it( the foot ) several times a day on the advice of the vet but no progress as yet. X-rays in 2-3 weeks and we will see where we go from there.
The falcon appears in good spirits though, which is half the battle.

Is this exercise to prevent shrinkage of the tendon as it heals? I really hope he recovers for you. He must be a very strong tenacious bird He's been through so much, you both have, he deserves to. In fact you both deserve a change in your luck I sincerely hope he gets better for you.You're right being in good spirits is, as you say, half the battle. His survival after this length of time is in little doubt. I always read this post with interest & crossed fingers!! keep us informed <kev>

[SeagulBasher]

hi mate
glad to here hes making progress
its always hard when you see them obbling around with a splint on but keep your chin up hopefully he be fine
my pere x saker is bouncing around like a gooden now and its only been about 8 weeks now.
all the best
colin

[Falcon]

Some of you will know that I've now started a job in Scotland (landfill clearance work), well I've settled into the job and got to know a few peeps. The gulls also now know who I am, and although I've not had a falcon to fly (boss dropped off one for me last night, thanks Boss!:yawinkle: ), I've been flying my goshawk (Kira) initially at rabbits, but in the 2 weeks that i've been working at the landfill site, Kira has flown with vigour at the gulls and to date has nailed 3! Two of which are pictured below (not great quality as they were taken with my mobile). All the gulls she has bound to are juveniles, although she did attempt a Great black backed the other week, but she pulled off when the gull jinked in the air.
What I tend to do with the gos is stalk the gulls on the landfill, and then as I get to the peak of the mound I slip the gos at the group of gulls. Kira skims low to the floor and then gains height just as the gulls take off, as they do this she selects the gull she's going to take, flies up under it and grabs it and brings it to the ground. Her manners are incredible on the kill and I can dispatch and open the gull for her with bare hands, she is also very well behaved when picking her up off the kill, as i only give her the breast of the gull, and avoid feeding her the layer of fat that sits on the breast meat.
I will post again once I've got ISP sorted and not borrowing someone elses connection.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/birdpz/Kiragull3.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/birdpz/kiragull2.jpg

[FlameHairedFalconer]

Kiras looking good!!! With her and the falcon you will soon be the scourge of all the gulls in Scotland....:axe:

Hope you still have all your fingers :yawinkle:

FHF

[Steve L]

Well done sarah its good to see things working out for you, and good luck in your new career


all the best steve

[Falcon]

Thanks peeps! Hey Neil who needs a falcon?????:lol: :yawinkle:

[SnakeHuts]

Sarah,

Bet its quite a picture, to watch you, gsp and Kira sculking around that tip......:rolleyes:

Any good finds??? Bet you have a mega carboot stall with FHF

[Rex06]

hey berkut how is the legg going on
i just want to know what do think about lanner hybreds for gull hawking
like a female lanner x pere or a gyr, pere X lanner (male or female)
as i need an allround but also good on gulls

[Kevin Massey]

Looking foreward to this thread Berkut. I'd like to do a lot more Gull Hawking myself as they are abundant on all the flat farmland around me. I've also got permission on a couple of landfills.


I have had thoughts myself..... crows/gulls....would open one hell of a lot of land around here..... on the way to work even i pass fields in the morning with 100's on them i kid you not....and the amount of times i get asked about clearance work.... not though i would want to go down that road myself

[Kevin Massey]

Some of you will know that I've now started a job in Scotland (landfill clearance work), well I've settled into the job and got to know a few peeps. The gulls also now know who I am, and although I've not had a falcon to fly (boss dropped off one for me last night, thanks Boss! ), I've been flying my goshawk (Kira) initially at rabbits, but in the 2 weeks that i've been working at the landfill site, Kira has flown with vigour at the gulls and to date has nailed 3! Two of which are pictured below (not great quality as they were taken with my mobile). All the gulls she has bound to are juveniles, although she did attempt a Great black backed the other week, but she pulled off when the gull jinked in the air.
What I tend to do with the gos is stalk the gulls on the landfill, and then as I get to the peak of the mound I slip the gos at the group of gulls. Kira skims low to the floor and then gains height just as the gulls take off, as they do this she selects the gull she's going to take, flies up under it and grabs it and brings it to the ground. Her manners are incredible on the kill and I can dispatch and open the gull for her with bare hands, she is also very well behaved when picking her up off the kill, as i only give her the breast of the gull, and avoid feeding her the layer of fat that sits on the breast meat.
I will post again once I've got ISP sorted and not borrowing someone elses connection.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/birdpz/Kiragull3.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f215/birdpz/kiragull2.jpg


thats not a job:supz:

[Berkut]

hey berkut how is the legg going on
i just want to know what do think about lanner hybreds for gull hawking
like a female lanner x pere or a gyr, pere X lanner (male or female)
as i need an allround but also good on gulls

Leg is coming along fine and starting to get some movement in the foot so I am feeling good about him now. Vet said he made it through the 4-5 hour op.due to his muscle he had built up.

Never flown a lanner hybrid at gulls but would have thought as long as there is peregrine in there it would have potential.

[GyrXPeales]

[QUOTE=Berkut;386797]Leg is coming along fine and starting to get some movement in the foot so I am feeling good about him now. Vet said he made it through the 4-5 hour op.due to his muscle he had built up.

That's really good news Neil. I'm thinkin it's not only the muscle he built up that's pulling him through, it's those big ******** he grew that helped him most of all.:lol: That and a FALCONER that has what it takes to see him through.
Good on you Neil.
Jeff

[Hacker]

hey berkut how is the legg going on
i just want to know what do think about lanner hybreds for gull hawking
like a female lanner x pere or a gyr, pere X lanner (male or female)
as i need an allround but also good on gulls

I have a pere x lanner/ Lanner falcon that has just been flown free on a landfill today so will keep you posted on it`s performance, will try to get some pic`s later in the week.

[SakerYZF]

Friend of mine used to fly gulls with his Female gos, apparently it was easy sport, nice way to fill in between crow flights :-D

Glad the legs looking better Neil :-)

[Berkut]

[QUOTE=Berkut;386797]Leg is coming along fine and starting to get some movement in the foot so I am feeling good about him now. Vet said he made it through the 4-5 hour op.due to his muscle he had built up.

That's really good news Neil. I'm thinkin it's not only the muscle he built up that's pulling him through, it's those big ******** he grew that helped him most of all.:lol: That and a FALCONER that has what it takes to see him through.
Good on you Neil.
Jeff

Cheers Jeff. Up till today his food has been chopped up but his medication is finished so I let him eat a whole quail from the fist.He had his bad leg straight and his foot opened out so I am really pleased with his progress.Only 13 days since his op so I am encouraged by this .Thanks again for the good wishes.
Regards,
Neil

[Berkut]

Leg brace came off today but unfortunately little or no movement in the foot which remains clenched. The break in the leg has healed beautifully though.
Appointment with orthopedic surgeon tomorrow to discuss the way forward.
Not looking too good though.

To think some asshole had the cheek to say via another member of this forum I am only in this game for the money. I have spent £1200 on vets bills already for this bird and if it takes another £1200 I would pay it.

[Shaun Byrne]

Leg brace came off today but unfortunately little or no movement in the foot which remains clenched. The break in the leg has healed beautifully though.
Appointment with orthopedic surgeon tomorrow to discuss the way forward.
Not looking too good though.

To think some asshole had the cheek to say via another member of this forum I am only in this game for the money. I have spent £1200 on vets bills already for this bird and if it takes another £1200 I would pay it.


Respect mate:supz:

Good luck with the bird, hope all goes well.

[Hacker]

Leg brace came off today but unfortunately little or no movement in the foot which remains clenched. The break in the leg has healed beautifully though.
Appointment with orthopedic surgeon tomorrow to discuss the way forward.
Not looking too good though.

To think some asshole had the cheek to say via another member of this forum I am only in this game for the money. I have spent £1200 on vets bills already for this bird and if it takes another £1200 I would pay it.

Neil,
Probably some of the same we had yesterday.
Foot`s bad news, just hope for some good news from the Ortho m8!

[Berkut]

Neil,
Probably some of the same we had yesterday.
Foot`s bad news, just hope for some good news from the Ortho m8!

Cheers Richard.

[StoopDoggyDogg]

I had a barbary x merlin that got nailed off a pere saker and lost the use of his leg and the foot was clenched. i thought he was crippled for life but 16 weeks later he started using it and it repaired completely. i put him on soft material rather than astro turf due to standing on one leg all day, which usually starts off bumble foot. i didn't raise his weight too much and massaged both feet daily.
If its nerve damage it will repair eventually.

steve






Leg brace came off today but unfortunately little or no movement in the foot which remains clenched. The break in the leg has healed beautifully though.
Appointment with orthopedic surgeon tomorrow to discuss the way forward.
Not looking too good though.

To think some asshole had the cheek to say via another member of this forum I am only in this game for the money. I have spent £1200 on vets bills already for this bird and if it takes another £1200 I would pay it.

[LongVVing]

Let us know how things go with the orthopaedic surgeon. He is in very good hands and deserves a decent break after what you both have had to go thru.

Unfortunately the world is full of rsoles who think that people who are successful and make a go of things are just in it for the money!

All the best with him,

Mark.

[Turumti]

I once had a buzzard about ten or so years ago, that suffered a broken femur. He too, seemed to have lost use of his leg. But he regained full use of it with some TLC (tender loving care).

Twice a day I would hood him up cast him and dip his affected leg in a jug filled with warm (not hot water), and would gently massage his leg, foot and toes for about fifteen minutes, in three spells of five minutes each. With each session he improved, and by the grace of God, in about two weeks, he had regained enough use to be able to fully open and close his foot.

Next I start him off with short exercisinjg session by calling him to the fist for his meals, and I once I noticed that he was grippin equally with both his feet, I moved him to baggies, and when he had killed several (progressively difficult), and I was confident that he had regained full use of his affected leg, I released him.

[Berkut]

Cheers for the positive comments. If there is any chance of him coming good I will make sure it happens.

[Hacker]

Neil,
if the therapy involves rubbing it`s leg, just make sure you do not tell people you have been rubbing up your birds leg all day,

Gives the wrong sort of impression:lol:

[Berkut]

Neil,
if the therapy involves rubbing it`s leg, just make sure you do not tell people you have been rubbing up your birds leg all day,

Gives the wrong sort of impression:lol:

Depends who,s listening.Might give the right impression.;-)

[Berkut]

Update on the falcon.X-RAY on Wednesday revealed the break to the leg has healed a treat.Still zero movement in the foot which is clenched 24/7.They have bandaged the foot to keep it open but unfortunately as he is standing on his other foot all the time they have had to bandage that one too,as even although I am varying his perching materials he is suffering some swelling to it.
Another problem since Wednesday is that his wing is now drooping badly and he is muting over the primaries. It may be that when he was cast he was held incorrectly and has strained the wing but will have to be X-rayed again to check this. It is not looking good for the poor guy and if he does make a full recovery I will be very surprised. Anyway we shall plod on and carry on paying the vet bills.:(

[Saker Mad]

ive got me fingers crossed for the little guy stranger things happen at sea you are doing more than most would do neil wish you all the best with him mate

[OutFlying]

Fingers crossed Neil, at least you've given him the best chance of recovery.

Jim.

[SakerYZF]

Ouch , All the best Neil ,sure things will work out in the end , power of positive thinking n all that!
Best wishes

Chris.

[Joey]

good luck with him mate hope he recovers for you
have you tried putting him in a cast my mentor had to do this with his female spar a few seasons ago she broke a wing and a leg chasing a starling through a folk of sheep. he put her in a cast and would sort of excersise it for her hourly when it had nearly recovered.


all the best
joey

[Falcon]

I have no pics presently, but I'm still flying my goshawk at the gulls at work; she had her fifth gull last week, but unfortunately the flight was obscured by a mound and a dumper lorry (the driver saw the flight, and was pretty impressed). Flew her today a few times at the gulls, she was majorly pumped up this afternoon, and this seems to be the best time of the day to fly her at the gulls as they are coming into feed and I can safely move around the landfill without risking being flattened by machinery. Took her down at 3.30 this afternoon as the sun was beginning to drop behind the hill, and i could see the gulls making their way across into the landfill. Walked up where the trucks had made a track with embankments either side of me, there was a swing shovel parked up on top of one of the banks, and Kira left the glove and flew between the arm of the shovel and the cab and was after a gull that was flying the other side of the machine. The gull threw upwards and swung back round towards the sea with Kira in hot pursuit, in the process a flock of crows got up from the bank and she peeled off the gull and dived at one of the crows; but crows being crows then chased Kira down the far side of the landfill. I picked her up at the bottom near the pond. She came to the glove instantly, so i decided i would walk along the edge of the main landfill and towards the new cells where the guys were tipping rubbish. I could see qutie a number of gulls, a mixture of juveniles and adult herring gulls, but was unsure how close i would be able to get to them; as they have become very wise to myself and the hawks. I walked up and over the first bank of one of the cells and walked across that cell and gingerly walked up the next bank, as i approached the top of the mound and put Kira higher up, and she was away. She flew across the next cell to the next bank up over the bank and picked out an adult gull that she then flew parallel along the enbankment. I had stopped on the second bank to watch the outcome, She was gaining on the gull and upped her wing beat, the gull then threw up with Kira doing like wise; the gull then jinked to the left, and Kira peeled off to the right and went after some youngsters on the other side of the cell. She put on an extra spurt, and threw up under one young gull, feet came out to grab the gull but she just narrowly missed it. By this time the gulls were heading out towards the sea and Kira flew to the cell where the guys were tipping and landed on a bank on the far side of a very large pool of water. I made my way across to the bank and called her back to the glove. I decided to call it a day, as the light was beginning to fade and the machinery were getting closer to where we were. Needless to say the gulls stayed away until we were well out of sight.:lol:

[Saker Mad]

sounds like a great flight well done :supz:

ian

[Berkut]

I have no pics presently, but I'm still flying my goshawk at the gulls at work; she had her fifth gull last week, but unfortunately the flight was obscured by a mound and a dumper lorry (the driver saw the flight, and was pretty impressed). Flew her today a few times at the gulls, she was majorly pumped up this afternoon, and this seems to be the best time of the day to fly her at the gulls as they are coming into feed and I can safely move around the landfill without risking being flattened by machinery. Took her down at 3.30 this afternoon as the sun was beginning to drop behind the hill, and i could see the gulls making their way across into the landfill. Walked up where the trucks had made a track with embankments either side of me, there was a swing shovel parked up on top of one of the banks, and Kira left the glove and flew between the arm of the shovel and the cab and was after a gull that was flying the other side of the machine. The gull threw upwards and swung back round towards the sea with Kira in hot pursuit, in the process a flock of crows got up from the bank and she peeled off the gull and dived at one of the crows; but crows being crows then chased Kira down the far side of the landfill. I picked her up at the bottom near the pond. She came to the glove instantly, so i decided i would walk along the edge of the main landfill and towards the new cells where the guys were tipping rubbish. I could see qutie a number of gulls, a mixture of juveniles and adult herring gulls, but was unsure how close i would be able to get to them; as they have become very wise to myself and the hawks. I walked up and over the first bank of one of the cells and walked across that cell and gingerly walked up the next bank, as i approached the top of the mound and put Kira higher up, and she was away. She flew across the next cell to the next bank up over the bank and picked out an adult gull that she then flew parallel along the enbankment. I had stopped on the second bank to watch the outcome, She was gaining on the gull and upped her wing beat, the gull then threw up with Kira doing like wise; the gull then jinked to the left, and Kira peeled off to the right and went after some youngsters on the other side of the cell. She put on an extra spurt, and threw up under one young gull, feet came out to grab the gull but she just narrowly missed it. By this time the gulls were heading out towards the sea and Kira flew to the cell where the guys were tipping and landed on a bank on the far side of a very large pool of water. I made my way across to the bank and called her back to the glove. I decided to call it a day, as the light was beginning to fade and the machinery were getting closer to where we were. Needless to say the gulls stayed away until we were well out of sight.:lol:

Good job done.The gaffer must be pleased.:)

[Kevin Massey]

Good job done.The gaffer must be pleased.:)


That pleased a pay rise would be in order I reacon:supz:

[Berkut]

That pleased a pay rise would be in order I reacon:supz:

Not THAT pleased.:yawinkle:

[Saker Mad]

give em a pay rise you meany:lol: :lol: you are rich enough neil

[Berkut]

give em a pay rise you meany:lol: :lol: you are rich enough neil

I wish.Just a retired old codger trying to earn a crust.:yawinkle:

[Saker Mad]

pmsl all those posh motors mate and jazzy birds you got to be the richest man in scotland neil :goodman: :rolleyes:

ian

ps giz a ring and we will chat sometime

[Falcon]

That pleased a pay rise would be in order I reacon:supz:

give em a pay rise you meany:lol: you are rich enough neil


:lol: I'm keeping my mouth shout
:prayer:

[Berkut]

:lol: I'm keeping my mouth shout
:prayer:

That,ll be a first.:rolleyes:

[Falcon]

:oops: :yawinkle:

[Berkut]

Just to get back on thread:) ,D-day tomorrow with the falcon.Vets appointment to decide what is best for him.Still zero movement in the foot and wing at the droop. X-rays will be taken to establish the all round situation. It doesn,t look too good as he has let himself go a bit and doesn,t look after himself well now. I am still trying my best with him but find it quite gut-wrenching to see him that way,considering his capabilities before the injury.Fingers crossed.

[Ross Ricks]

hope it will be good news

[Saker Mad]

hope the vets trip turns out neil fingers crossed
ian

[Falcon]

Let me know how it goes Neil, got everything crossed.

[MickeyDredd]

Let me know how it goes Neil, got everything crossed.

Another first! :lol: :lol:

[Berkut]

Another first! :lol: :lol:

:supz: :supz:

[Falcon]

Another first! :lol:

:supz:

Jeez what is this Pick on Sarah day:lol: :rolleyes: Revenge will be sweet!!!! hehehhehehe

[Berkut]

Jeez what is this Pick on Sarah day:lol: :rolleyes: Revenge will be sweet!!!! hehehhehehe

You just keep giving us the bullets and we,ll keep on firing them.;-)

[Falcon]

:rolleyes: :roll:

[SnakeHuts]

Let me know how it goes Neil, got everything crossed.

Everythin crossed and still incontinent.......sarwah

[Austringer84]

Hope it goes/went well at the vets Neil.

si

[BrianM]

best of luck neil

[KevGem1]

hope everything works out well with him neil,fingers crossed for you mate KEV. :wink:

[1ABHawker]

how did it go?

[Berkut]

Bird spent the day at the vets.Various tests done.Full power in the hind toe but none in the other 3. Wing appears to be strained not broken but this to be confirmed by x-ray.An operation is planned but I wouldn,t allow it today as he needs some weight gain before he goes under anaesthetic,so it is scheduled for next Tuesday.At that time the wing and leg will be x-rayed.
The op is to check for tendon damage with a view to possible repair , or not as the case may be.Will update on Tuesday.
Thanks again for the good wishes.

[Mark Collins]

Hi niel , been following the progress of your gyr,per, tiercel , hope he improves , its always the good ones that get injured , we spoke a while ago you may remember on identifing a recoved falcon, i have flown gyr,peris at gulls and crows and as you no if you get a good one , its a really good one its a super hybred , i lost mine 2nd season on a crow on a road it was a long flight , a long way from the road but he bound to it over the road and was hit by a car , 2 yrs before his brother was killed on a gull at the side of the road, what a waste , all the hard work , anyway good luck , mark collins.

[Berkut]

Hi niel , been following the progress of your gyr,per, tiercel , hope he improves , its always the good ones that get injured , we spoke a while ago you may remember on identifing a recoved falcon, i have flown gyr,peris at gulls and crows and as you no if you get a good one , its a really good one its a super hybred , i lost mine 2nd season on a crow on a road it was a long flight , a long way from the road but he bound to it over the road and was hit by a car , 2 yrs before his brother was killed on a gull at the side of the road, what a waste , all the hard work , anyway good luck , mark collins.
Mark,
Cheers for that. It is so true that the good ones always seem to get it.
He has been through the mill and there was a suggestion today that we had reached the end of the road but I felt I had to carry on.

[SnakeHuts]

Neil,

take care mate, you have given the boy the best care that he can get and deserves, hope it all comes good in the end. Kev

[Berkut]

Neil,

take care mate, you have given the boy the best care that he can get and deserves, hope it all comes good in the end. Kev

Cheers Kev.

[Saker Mad]

hope it all works out for him if theres one thing to come out of all this you have done your best and have done the wee boy proud a true falconer in my eyes
all the best
ian

[Berkut]

The tiercel gyr/peregrine has been going down hill over the last few days.I,ve been trying to build him up for his op tomorrow. Anyway, I have been feeding him little and often today and had some minced quail warming in my pocket for him before he settled for the night.Unfortunately when I went to feed him just now he was dead so I am a bit gutted.It was Sept 19th he broke his leg.
He did so well at first,preening and looking after himself but he just seemed to have lost the will to live over the last couple of weeks.
Such a shame,as he was turning out to be such a prize and I had seen some of the bests flights at gulls ever with him.

[GyrXPeales]

So very sorry Neil. He was a wonderful bird and friend. I have to think he's soaring high over the plains of heaven now.
Bless him and you!
Best Regards As Always,
Jeff

[Saker Mad]

truely gutted for you mate you did your best for the wee man he couldnt have asked for any more i guess it was just his time he tryed his best but i was just to much for him to handle deepest symathy to you

ian

[Turumti]

I am gutted for you mate. Dont really know what to say, except that may God grant you the fortitude to bear this loss and the strength to carry on. Keep hawking!

[Austringer84]

The tiercel gyr/peregrine has been going down hill over the last few days.I,ve been trying to build him up for his op tomorrow. Anyway, I have been feeding him little and often today and had some minced quail warming in my pocket for him before he settled for the night.Unfortunately when I went to feed him just now he was dead so I am a bit gutted.It was Sept 19th he broke his leg.
He did so well at first,preening and looking after himself but he just seemed to have lost the will to live over the last couple of weeks.
Such a shame,as he was turning out to be such a prize and I had seen some of the bests flights at gulls ever with him.

Neil,

Really sorry to hear your news mate, your such a top bloke, wish he had pulled thro for you, u deserved it. hope your not too down, what ,more can i say. U didnt deserve that blow.

Si

[Laggan]

I'm sure everyone on the Forum feels for you Neil.

Keep your chin up.

Sincerest best wishes.

Iain

[Rufus T]

Neil so sorry to hear about your falcon. You've not had much luck this season mate.

[Hacker]

Neil,
you did everything and if not more than a lot of people would of done for this bird, pity it had to end like this.

[KevGem1]

sorry to hear of your loss mate chin up,i hope it hasn't knocked you down to much. If its any consolation he was doing what he was bred for and not sat on a block doing nothing all the best mate. Cheers KEV

[SeagulBasher]

sorry to here about your loss mate really do feel for you i no wat it feels like to have something thats giving you so much pleasure taken away from you
good luck for the future
all the best
colin

[Grey_Squirrel_Hawker]

gutted for ya mate:cry:

[Cyclone]

gutted for you mate....keep hunting though because i like reading your threads.......
shane

[SnakeHuts]

Neil,

Cant say anything excet you gave him the best to the very end.......I am sure you will remember him with great fondness.

[Pogger]

So sorry for you. You must be gutted.

[Kevin Massey]

Neil i am so gutted mate....ive followed the thread from the off and like others really built a picture of him on a funny personal level ..

Doing so well and all

Kev

[Paddy1]

not alot i can say that hasnt already been said mate sorry for your lose :goodman:

[Berkut]

Cheers for all the replies. I,ll just soldier on as usual. Nothing else for it, as they say.Thanks again.
Neil.

[SakerYZF]

So sorry to hear this Neil ,its really unfair.... You did everything you could for him, at least you can console yourself with that.

Chris.

[Mark Collins]

Cheers for all the replies. I,ll just soldier on as usual. Nothing else for it, as they say.Thanks again.
Neil.

Hi neil , sorry mate for your loss been a bit pre,ocuppied , what a shame , good luck for the future, mark.

[SeagulBasher]

have you got anouther up and coming gullhawk in the pipe line??????

[Berkut]

have you got anouther up and coming gullhawk in the pipe line??????

I have a couple to work on but unfortunately they are problem birds that have
been passed about a bit.Nothing reliable at the moment.

[SakerYZF]

hold on a little while and we should be able to sort that ;-)

Chris

[1ABHawker]

just caught up with the thread niel, sorry to hear the bad news, it's always the good ones. You did all you could.

[Athene]

I'm really sorry for you, but at the same time I admire you. I think you did all what was in your hands for him.

[Sandeep]

The tiercel gyr/peregrine has been going down hill over the last few days.I,ve been trying to build him up for his op tomorrow. Anyway, I have been feeding him little and often today and had some minced quail warming in my pocket for him before he settled for the night.Unfortunately when I went to feed him just now he was dead so I am a bit gutted.It was Sept 19th he broke his leg.
He did so well at first,preening and looking after himself but he just seemed to have lost the will to live over the last couple of weeks.
Such a shame,as he was turning out to be such a prize and I had seen some of the bests flights at gulls ever with him.

My condolonces mate.... Cheerup you tried your best... There is no escape from such accidents...

:goodman:

[Puzo]

Sad to hear this especially after he seemed to be pulling through. You've done your best, you can't do more than that!

[Saker Mad]

would a female pereigrine be any good for gulls im picking one up in a few weeks that hates crows /rooks and the lad wants to fly game so i got her to fly for a few seasons as a favour for him :supz: wich im well pleaesed about she goes at 1 14 7/8
atb
ian

[Kevin Massey]

Neil you doing anything Gull/Crow wise:?:

[Berkut]

Kev,
Not really.I am flying a site bird that turns it on now and again but is nothing special from a gull hawking point of view.My truck was stolen just at the crucial time for making a gull hawk and the falcon that died was turning out to be good gull hawk. I never had it in me at the time to continue and nearly threw the towel in.

ATB,
Neil

[Kevin Massey]

I never had it in me at the time to continue and nearly threw the towel in.

ATB,
Neil

Such a shame :(

this area of falconry I-M-O is a great way of getting involved when you dont have out and out Rabbit or Game land

[Berkut]

Such a shame :(

this area of falconry I-M-O is a great way of getting involved when you dont have out and out Rabbit or Game land


Agreed Kev. Gull hawking is an under-rated branch of the sport and when you have a good falcon it really grips you.

Neil.

[Kevin Massey]

Agreed Kev. Gull hawking is an under-rated branch of the sport

Neil.


Spot on:supz:

[Austringer84]

Its great fun, different to game and rabbit hawking, but equally enjoyable. sometimes wish i had kept doing the landfills. hope Neil is getting over the **** thats happened recently.

si

[Berkut]

Its great fun, different to game and rabbit hawking, but equally enjoyable. sometimes wish i had kept doing the landfills. hope Neil is getting over the **** thats happened recently.

si


Si,
All the **** in the past now thankfully. Eagle season full steam ahead.Bentley and Cinnibar together and looking very promising for the future.Hope all well with you.

All the best,
Neil

[SeagulBasher]

Agreed Kev. Gull hawking is an under-rated branch of the sport and when you have a good falcon it really grips you.

Neil.

gull hawking rules:supz::supz: