Give up or keep trying

[JFSeaman]

Should we as falconers give up the idea that there will ever be an accredited qualifications scheme for the UK (apprentiseship, nvq, what ever).

or

Should those that believe continue trying.

I know I'll get swamped 4 to 1 that we should give up. There are several very vocal on this forum that blame somebody else (breeders, centres) and take no responsability.

[FlameHairedFalconer]

So thats the choice - a voluntary scheme or falconry will be banned?

Quite apart from my own belief that if the Government wanted falconry banned it would happen voluntary scheme or no (look at how perfectly legal handguns were banned in the 1990's) Plus my other belief that any 'banning' is likely to come from the EU in any event and will turn on ownership of birds of prey not the sport of falconry - which again a voluntary scheme will not go any way towards stopping.....


I do believe that there is a place for a uniform standard of course or apprenticeship. If the LANTRA scheme can kick this process off more the better.

After all it would be good if every centre that offered courses, every club apprenticeship scheme offered the same standard of experience and skill at the end of it.

So I wont be voting on this poll as I feel it is too simplistic and fails to take into account the huge amount of variables that may or could affect falconry outside any voluntary apprenticeship scheme.

FHF

[JFSeaman]

So thats the choice - a voluntary scheme or falconry will be banned?

Quite apart from my own belief that if the Government wanted falconry banned it would happen voluntary scheme or no (look at how perfectly legal handguns were banned in the 1990's) Plus my other belief that any 'banning' is likely to come from the EU in any event and will turn on ownership of birds of prey not the sport of falconry - which again a voluntary scheme will not go any way towards stopping.....


I do believe that there is a place for a uniform standard of course or apprenticeship. If the LANTRA scheme can kick this process off more the better.

After all it would be good if every centre that offered courses, every club apprenticeship scheme offered the same standard of experience and skill at the end of it.

So I wont be voting on this poll as I feel it is too simplistic and fails to take into account the huge amount of variables that may or could affect falconry outside any voluntary apprenticeship scheme.

FHF

I wanted a simplistic poll. There are many variables but at the moment, it seems only two possibilities. HB/LANTRA gets going or we all just wait for the ban. The idea of a ban doesn't come from me it comes from those opposing my preposition that HB/LANTRA is 'a' way forward.

As for a uniform standard, you state my case better than I do. Thank you and that's what forums are for.

I actually don't think 'the government' would bother except that the 'anti' lobby which would have it banned has much more money than we do and spred it around to politicians. Falconry is a mostly solitary activity. We are difficult to unite and the 'anti's have a big head start.

Anyone who has an alternative way forward, I'd love to hear about it. The HB/LANTA standards and scheme were not developed in a vaclume. Our represntatives to the HB participated.

[FlameHairedFalconer]

I do not believe the anti lobby has more power than the government. They are the ones who make the laws, not the antis.

The antis power lies in their lobbying prowess. An apprenticeship scheme isnt going to stop them lobbying for a ban. They want to ban falconry because they dont like field sports or dont like us keeping birds of prey which they feel should be 'wild and free', this has nothing to do with whether or not you have been taught how to tie the falconers knot.

Falconers as a whole need to support the hawk board to put forward falconers opinions and wishes to the Govenment.

An apprenticeship scheme is completely periphery to this need for a political voice.

FHF

[BlackHawke]

I do not believe the anti lobby has more power than the government. They are the ones who make the laws, not the antis.

The antis power lies in their lobbying prowess. An apprenticeship scheme isnt going to stop them lobbying for a ban. They want to ban falconry because they dont like field sports or dont like us keeping birds of prey which they feel should be 'wild and free', this has nothing to do with whether or not you have been taught how to tie the falconers knot.

Falconers as a whole need to support the hawk board to put forward falconers opinions and wishes to the Govenment.

An apprenticeship scheme is completely periphery to this need for a political voice.

FHF


:supz: :supz: :supz: :supz: totally agree as probably many of us on here.

one way i thought the government could in essense ban falconry is to categorise BOP under the dangerous wild animal act??? would this be possible??? or because we already have BOP in the wild would this keep BOP from being categorised under the act?

[Jiff]

i believe that there's proposals put forward this year to introduce a compulsary scheme, i for one think it's a good idea, anyone who thinks not isnt crazy but are on the way to becomming crazy.

[JFSeaman]

i believe that there's proposals put forward this year to introduce a compulsary scheme, i for one think it's a good idea, anyone who thinks not isnt crazy but are on the way to becomming crazy.
Re-read my post from November last year. This was before I had any idea that the HB had something going. falconry license (http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=220395#post220395). Exactly as you say, it becomes mandatory but without shutting out proper falconers now. Besides, if a mandatory scheme were enacted today, who would take care of the birds from all of you who are not bothered to prove that you would pass a mandatory scheme. Nick Fox and staff (who all passed assesment or will), members if the Welsh Hawking Club and ME?

I don't think I said the anti's have more power than the government. I may have miss typed what I wanted to say (too much coffee or not enough).

The anti's are better organized than we are. We let the HB speak for us as our lobbying body, as it should be. But when the HB puts up a scheme and uses LANTRA as the administration point so they can carry on with other issues, many on this forum say it's s**t.

[Jiff]

av you been drinking cos you're starting to lose me on this one, i see a debate, but i'm losing it's core subject, are we in favour of a scheme or not?

[JFSeaman]

av you been drinking cos you're starting to lose me on this one, i see a debate, but i'm losing it's core subject, are we in favour of a scheme or not?
Just coffee and in favor of a scheme.

[JFSeaman]

From the hackers.

[JFSeaman]

The more I ask, the more it seems something would be supported. I've got several new members to the clubs so I'll see if it can be made to work from the club side.