Stoops and Pitch...

[GoshawkRST]

Hello everybody,
I have read some messages here, some time ago, about stooping hunting falcons to the lure. Some falconers say that a waiting on falcon will loose pich ( high ) if you stoop them to the lure ( to get them fit for exemple ), yet, another falconers say that is not true, that you can have a waiting on falcon stooping to the lure....

Can anyone explain a little bit this doubt, since I am really confuse here...

Best regards !!!
Sergiu...

[Merger]

Old fashioned stooping, will increase, fitness, stamina, and most off all footing ability, however so will kiteing, and long luring, its very much an indidual thing!! as said before, there is no magic recipe! what works for some, wont for others, If I tell you to stoop your hawk hard for a couple of weeks, then take him to some hilly ground, and flush some game, while hes waiting for the lure!! and he doesnt chase,, then youl blame me,,, so I wont!! listen for some other recipes,, then take your pick!!!

[Bird_Dog]

Most of the longwingers in my area don't do much lure flying. Perhaps based on the belief at you will lower the pitch by keeping the focus on the lure. I've never set out to just lure train. Some falconers use it for conditioning. I like the kite. I never found any ill effects from doing a bit of extended lure flying when I recall my bird after a miss. My thinking is that you shouldn't make it easy to receive a reward for missing. If catches a duck then it over, but if it misses it will have to chase (the lure) some more. The pitch doen't seem to effected by doing this.

-- BIRD_DOG

[Dude]

Hello everybody,
I have read some messages here, some time ago, about stooping hunting falcons to the lure. Some falconers say that a waiting on falcon will loose pich ( high ) if you stoop them to the lure ( to get them fit for exemple ), yet, another falconers say that is not true, that you can have a waiting on falcon stooping to the lure....

Can anyone explain a little bit this doubt, since I am really confuse here...

Best regards !!!
Sergiu...

Hi Sergiu,

I also fly my lanners in a waiting on style and if no game flushed than I start stoop them to the lure as many times as I get tired not the falcons.They also lost pitch when started to stoop them to the lure, but I does sum bagged pigeon training than started to flushing game under them and they go in a great height again! Just the falcon have to know that stooping to the lure and chasing is two different things!

rgds,
Dan. :)

[GoshawkRST]

Thankyou everybody for the replays!
I was thinking that stooping a waiting on falcon, will reduce the weight. I did not have it very cleare, since in the other message one falconer sayd Yes and another No, and so on.... :D

Best regards !
Sergiu...

[GoshawkRST]

I am asking, because I plan to fly a femmale common kestrel next year, waiting on flights.
On the Sky Trial 2006 from Leon, I meet with a person that fly a female common kestrel, waiting on, on wild Partidges and she is able to take them ! Also, we talked about another falconer that won the 1st place on sky trial some years ago, on pigeons, with a femmale common kestrel waiting on.

Best regards !
Sergiu...

[Dude]

paridge with a Ckessie wooow

[Dean]

Tell ya what. Im coming over to see this kestrel! :supz:

[GoshawkRST]

If I succed to make it take bagged pigeons ( that really fly ! ) from a high pitch ( just like my master falconer friend ), you are my guest !!!

[OutFlying]

A kestral at 7oz ish taking pigeons / partidges constantly from a pitch over a season - I would like to see this also.

Jim.

[Pedro Af]

I’ve flow some kestrels and here is what I found out.

I don’t know about the pigeon and the partridge thing…but with kestrels it’s good to use the lure to reinforce a high pitch (I guess it works the same with big falcons)…for instance, you’re flying your kestrel in a hilly and windy area and he gets some height just throw the lure or call him to it…this will reinforce the behaviour… I

believe that repetive stooping a falcon to the lure could lower his pitch (kestrels are hard to stoop because they don’t hunt like a big falcon and they stop in the air when they miss prey), but if you use the lure to reinforce the behaviour of going up and waiting it will actually increase the pitch (if the lure and call are give in the right time)

Hope you luck, kestrels are great
Pedro Af

[B C]

Personally I don't believe that stooping falcons to the lure lowers the pitch of a gamehawk!

I've trained and hunted quite a few falcons and tiercels and have always lure trained first, then introduced to game with dog on point whilst they were in position waiting for the lure to be produced.

In this way, I think that the bird just learns obedience and is ready to go at whatever is produced, but I have not experienced birds lowering pitch. If they are trained well to the lure they realise that height gives them a better chance of hitting the lure anyway so why should a bird lower pitch? Just my opinion anyway.

B C

[Peri]

What im going to do my freind is offer you £5000 for this bird.
please get reall .:razz::oops::razz::oops

[Pure Blood]

What im going to do my freind is offer you £5000 for this bird.
please get reall .:razz::oops::razz::oops
biy mine £2500 lol

[OutHawkn]

Hello everybody,
I have read some messages here, some time ago, about stooping hunting falcons to the lure. Some falconers say that a waiting on falcon will loose pich ( high ) if you stoop them to the lure ( to get them fit for exemple ), yet, another falconers say that is not true, that you can have a waiting on falcon stooping to the lure....

Can anyone explain a little bit this doubt, since I am really confuse here...

Best regards !!!
Sergiu...

Some lure flying will not lower a falcons pitch. If the bird also does some game hawking. Falcons soon learn the difference.JMO

[Jack]

I don't know the first thing about the European Kestrel, except that it might be a little bigger than ours. However, having flown and played with a few of our kestrels I would say that they are pretty much a waste of time if you are wanting to take game with them. By game I mean Snipe and Dove sized birds and up. They feed on the tiny little field mice and grasshoppers and most go through their entire lives without ever eating a bird. They can be induced to kill birds, but lark sized birds intimidate the hell out of them. The largest bird I have ever taken with a Kestrel was a robin, which is illegal these days. And that was with a single individual and it took some serious dieting to get her to do that occasionally. They are more apt to grab hold of big rats than large birds.
Kestrels are a lot of fun to play with, and they can give you plenty of handling experience for larger falcons down the line, but as a hunter I would not spend all the time required to do this and just get myself a bird that will pay dividends between effort and return.

Jack

[OutHawkn]

I don't know the first thing about the European Kestrel, except that it might be a little bigger than ours. However, having flown and played with a few of our kestrels I would say that they are pretty much a waste of time if you are wanting to take game with them. By game I mean Snipe and Dove sized birds and up. They feed on the tiny little field mice and grasshoppers and most go through their entire lives without ever eating a bird. They can be induced to kill birds, but lark sized birds intimidate the hell out of them. The largest bird I have ever taken with a Kestrel was a robin, which is illegal these days. And that was with a single individual and it took some serious dieting to get her to do that occasionally. They are more apt to grab hold of big rats than large birds.
Kestrels are a lot of fun to play with, and they can give you plenty of handling experience for larger falcons down the line, but as a hunter I would not spend all the time required to do this and just get myself a bird that will pay dividends between effort and return.

Jack

Jack, here we go again. Just because you cant train them doesnt mean others cant either. There are a good number of folks on this forum and the other forum that take a whole lot of game.

Here is just one of several; http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23176