hunting advice...

[Syrus]

hi guys,

just a quick question for y'all, i'm trying to get my 3yr old pere/saker male to take corvids (mainly rooks and crows) for me but nothing seems to be working. i've tried varying his weight but the 'little ******' just doesn't seem to be interested at the mo :roll: this is his first season being entered, he has had 10 kills up until now but all on landfill sites. now i am flying him in the countryside and giving him plenty of good (actually, ridiculously easy) slips but either he stick to me like glue at about 1lb.6 3/4oz to 1lb.7 1/2oz or at about 1lb.8 1/4oz to 1lb.8 3/4oz just sits up in trees:( . please if there is anyone who has any idea of what i can do please pm me...

cheers,
Syrus

[Hhaawwkkeerr]

I read another post on here with a similar question.I think that the answer was to tie rook/crow wings to a lure as well as some meat/doc so the bird associates the two.I think that was it.No doubt someone with more knowledge will be along soon and tell you to do!!

[MattSpar]

This, I'm afraid, is what happens when a hawk is left too long before entering, or is not flown enough at quarry.

At three years of age (I'm presuming he's been flown each season), ten kills are not enough to make him a confident hunting bird. Still, all may not be lost. Get yourself a supply of dead rooks if you can. Feed him on them, and stoop him to a dead rook as well, but don't spend too long at that stage.

When slipping him at rooks, get yourself out of sight somehow, duck down in a ditch, or get back in your vehicle so you're out of the equation.

To encourage him initially, you can get someone to hide and throw out a dead rook for him.

At the start you may have to reduce his weight a little to make him interested.

Also, don't forget a falcon weighing a pound and a half might decide rooks are too much for him and just refuse them. I know male peregrine/sakers will take rooks, and crows too, but a few just don't want to know.

At the start, avoid crows. They're tougher by far than rooks and they may well extinguish any early enthusiasm he may show.

[Venividevenatio]

MattSpars post was not present when I was typing this, so this is in addition to his sound comment.

If he has not been entered until the age of 3, then you have done very well to have 10 kills! So don't despair, you are over a major hurdle! I assume that the kills were corvids?
Is the bird parent reared or imprint? Has it ever been flown elswhere, other than landfill sites? It may have become comfortable with the environment, especialy if it was imprinted on a landfill site.

I do not like garnished lures, it encourages bad behaviour on lure and perhaps even on a kill, but others do have a diifferent view, and always garnish.

The suggestion of garnishing a 'corvid wing lure' is is not necessary. If those 10 kills are corvids, she knows they are on the menu!

Perhaps some manning in the countryside areas may help if she has become fixated on the landfill environment? A dragged fresh corvid and a feed up in the countryside area may help her to gain confidence---alllow an hour or more of time, and do not let her eat the corvids innards.

Does he not roam around away from the immediate environs of the landfill?

Unless it is already to late, do not call him from a 'landing' for food. You only have to do this 2 or 3 times, and you will have taught the bird to land and get rewarded. Sit it out till he takes off, and then call him. If he is not landing at the dump, then go to your countyside area, and be prepared to sit it out, but it is a very hard habit to break.
Good luck, I hope this helps, if not, only killing on landfill is a usefull 'fault'!

[MattSpar]

MattSpars post was not present when I was typing this, so this is in addition to his sound comment.

If he has not been entered until the age of 3, then you have done very well to have 10 kills! So don't despair, you are over a major hurdle! I assume that the kills were corvids?
Is the bird parent reared or imprint? Has it ever been flown elswhere, other than landfill sites? It may have become comfortable with the environment, especialy if it was imprinted on a landfill site.

I do not like garnished lures, it encourages bad behaviour on lure and perhaps even on a kill, but others do have a diifferent view, and always garnish.

The suggestion of garnishing a 'corvid wing lure' is is not necessary. If those 10 kills are corvids, she knows they are on the menu!

Perhaps some manning in the countryside areas may help if she has become fixated on the landfill environment? A dragged fresh corvid and a feed up in the countryside area may help her to gain confidence---alllow an hour or more of time, and do not let her eat the corvids innards.

Does he not roam around away from the immediate environs of the landfill?

Unless it is already to late, do not call him from a 'landing' for food. You only have to do this 2 or 3 times, and you will have taught the bird to land and get rewarded. Sit it out till he takes off, and then call him. If he is not landing at the dump, then go to your countyside area, and be prepared to sit it out, but it is a very hard habit to break.
Good luck, I hope this helps, if not, only killing on landfill is a usefull 'fault'!

My own experience prompts me to say that if this hawk kills corvids at a landfill site, there's no reason why he shouldn't kill just as happily elsewhere. The ten kills at the site would only whet his appetite PROVIDED he hasn't had an unpleasant experience with them. He is quite small.

[LongVVing]

One method I have tried which has worked for me is to get a mate to hide behind a bush hold a creance which I have a rook tied to the other end.

I have the bird hooded a few hundred yards away then take off the hood whilst my mate shakes the creance to get the rook animated. Hopefully the movement will trigger the falcon to attack and 'catch' the rook.
My friend stays hidden but pulls the creance with the falcon bound onto the rook to simulate a bit of resistance. I then make in as usuall let the bird have a good feed then pick up and try again. On the final attempt I let the bird feed up on the rook.
Sometimes I engineer it so when the creance is pulled the rook is lifted off the ground by looping the line over a tree branch (or peg a line between two sticks like a washing line and loop the creance over that). We can let the falcon catch it 'in the air' then.

Obviously to do this you do need help from someone and a supply of dead rooks/crows but its worth a go if you can set it up.

Good luck to you whatever you try anyways,

Mark.

[Agent D.]

I have the bird hooded a few hundred yards away then take off the hood whilst my mate shakes the creance to get the rook animated. Hopefully the movement will trigger the falcon to attack and 'catch' the rook.
Mark.

works 4 me too, it gets to the point the falcon is anticipating the lure when the hood rolls off then straight for it, no rouse. this can be done 2 or 3 times a day.
i'd say try this, get the falcon nailing the lure as soon as the hood is off, then try for an easy slip. but all ove the above posts make good sense.
good luck

[Mark Collins]

hi guys,

just a quick question for y'all, i'm trying to get my 3yr old pere/saker male to take corvids (mainly rooks and crows) for me but nothing seems to be working. i've tried varying his weight but the 'little ******' just doesn't seem to be interested at the mo :roll: this is his first season being entered, he has had 10 kills up until now but all on landfill sites. now i am flying him in the countryside and giving him plenty of good (actually, ridiculously easy) slips but either he stick to me like glue at about 1lb.6 3/4oz to 1lb.7 1/2oz or at about 1lb.8 1/4oz to 1lb.8 3/4oz just sits up in trees:( . please if there is anyone who has any idea of what i can do please pm me...

cheers,
Syrus

Hi syrus , you need to keep at it it can hard work ,i hate to say it but he may be to small, crows are powerfull birds , they dont like dying and fight like ******y , i have had about 3 smaller falcons that started off really well and then went off the boil , there are always exceptions , i once had a barbary saker that flew at 1, 7, killrd lots of crows and even 2 herring gulls however mid,season, she was really tatty , its a lot to ask of a small falcon bigger ones around the 2 pound do it so much better, also they dont get mobbed as much on the floor , the crows arnt stupid and keep there distance with a smaller falcon they really do gang up and can go in and do serious damage, the other thing to think about is they are real tough at the momment , early in the season the youngsters are easyer, you can then progress with them , hope this helps keep at it good luck, mark.

[Greg]

If you keep at it you will eventually find a rook that is not quite as fit as the rest of the flock. It took a couple of weeks for this to happen when I first started with my falcon but once it happened she never looked back. Also don't be foled into thinking that a very close slip is the best slip. A falcon needs time to build up speed and height which gives it the manouverability to take the quarry on and have a good chance of success.
As Mark says crows can do some serious damage and you will have to be ready to run to your birds aid. I had 4 crows on the back of my falcon before I could reach her once when she killed some way off. She had taken a crow down in long grass and the other crows knew that she was unable to defend herself with her head down trying to despatch her quarry. Even if the others don't come to the aid of bird that has been taken you need to get there quick as a crow is a powerful bird and can inflict damage.
My falcon took a large crow in a field of sheep. It was one hell of a fight and it took me a while to get there. The crow managed to bite the skin round her eye. To add insult to injury one of the ewes decided that these two birds fighting on the ground were a threat to her lamb, put her head down and tried to grind them both into the ground. I was lucky to come home with a falcon in one piece.
Greg

[Eznugud]

If I have read your post correctly you have had 10 crows with him this season, is the correct?
If this corrects what weight was he?

Personally I would forget about dead rooks and crows if he’s taken 10 crows this season, he knows what they are.
Get is weight to what you entered him at and try to keep it stable, you have quoted weights between 1lb.6 ¾ & 1lb.8 ¾, 2 ounce is a lot of fluctuation on a falcon of his size...more so for this type of hunting…
Take him back to the land fill and keep him there until he’s got another 10 crows under his belt then try him in the countryside again.

You have also got to be prepared for him just not making it.
I have flown both male and female hybrids and female Peregrines at rooks / crows and my first choice would always be a male hybrid, but I would not fancy taking on a 3 year hold un-entered one.
Pere / Saker males at corvids are a bloody strange thing, I had 2 males in 1997 or 98 and they took over 150 corvids each that season.
The following season 1 of them would not even take a slip and the other was very hit and miss, both were re-homed and apparently made really good game hawks.


Good luck with him…

[MattSpar]

Personally I would forget about dead rooks and crows if he’s taken 10 crows this season, he knows what they are.
…


However, he's not taking them now. The use of dead rooks, and a rook lure may, or may not be necessary, but why not make use of them instead of leaving things to chance?

If, in spite of this, the hawk turns out to be a failure, at least no-one will be able to say, "If only..."

Feed him rooks and use a rook lure is my advice. It can do no harm.

[BFC 007]

poor little ****** probably got mobbed & put him off them. It happens with the small males.

Put him onto partridges mate :supz:

[MattSpar]

poor little ****** probably got mobbed & put him off them. It happens with the small males.

Put him onto partridges mate :supz:

A very likely scenario.

[BFC 007]

My male gyr/saker doesnt seem to give a ****,a number of times i have arrived at the murder scene & he is surrounded by the ******s but he continues with the plucking :lol:

[MattSpar]

I dare say your gyr/saker's a bit bigger though?

I sometimes think it's more to do with the individual hawk when it comes to crow attacks. They never seem to attack my present hawk, a female peregrine/saker, but sit around her on her kill, swearing. On the other hand I've had a female peregrine, a good rook hawk, attacked mercilessly by crows several times whilst on a kill. A friend had his peregrine quite badly damaged by them.

[Dean]

If your gonna try and switch a persuit falcon to partridge this time of year on farmland,shorten his wings and lengthen his tail somewhat! Seriously,you may just have a hand me down that aint gonna make the grade,maybe once,not now!:(

[BFC 007]

I was just saying what i have experienced with the ******s with my bird & know that he is bigger than the bird in question. As you have stated they can & will do a lot of damage to a falcon which is why when the flight goes out of sight im in the vehicle & tracking asap.

[Syrus]

hi guy's

cheers for all your advice, well appreciated. not giving up on him... he was parent reared but i think i might have parcially imprinted him when i first got him. my mates had him for about a year and a half (he is a very experienced falconer) as i was at college away from home and didn't have anywhere to keep him. 6 of the 10 kills where "apparently" corvids but i'm yet to see him take one, although he has had some decent flights at them with me so maybe the day will come when he'll nail one of the ******s. anyway cheers for the comments...

muchos grasias,

Syrus

[Jack]

hi guys,

just a quick question for y'all, i'm trying to get my 3yr old pere/saker male to take corvids (mainly rooks and crows) for me but nothing seems to be working. i've tried varying his weight but the 'little ******' just doesn't seem to be interested at the mo this is his first season being entered, he has had 10 kills up until now but all on landfill sites. now i am flying him in the countryside and giving him plenty of good (actually, ridiculously easy) slips
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Then he really has been entered to crows already, just has given them up. I would not think the location makes any difference. You know he will kill them, so there has to be a reason for his refusals.

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but either he stick to me like glue at about 1lb.6 3/4oz to 1lb.7 1/2oz
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This behavior will quite often suggest that the tiercel is too low, but I suspect that he has since become fist and lure bound. Prefering to remain close in case you offer up the lure or food otherwise.
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or at about 1lb.8 1/4oz to 1lb.8 3/4oz just sits up in trees . please if there is anyone who has any idea of what i can do please pm me...
cheers,
Syrus

This behavior tells me that I am right. He does this to extract the lure from you. This behavior comes from being mews soured or fist bound. It is not something that can not be cured however. And I suspect that you really need to extract some weight off his little ass and force him to respond. You can later add some weight back to him, but you need to get him motivated. Don't worry about killing him. He will not allow that to happen. He will try to feed himself long before that if you just give him the chance to do so. Besides, as he is now, what good is he? Dragging dead rooks on a string will not work, as that is in his eye an offering from you. Make him kill his own rook or crow. When you put him up to fly, and he goes to sit. Just lay down and wait him out. He will eventually come to a conclusion. If you get mad and toss out the lure he has won. Remember, it is all about motivation. Motivate him in the only way you have, and that is through his stomach.

Jack