Price of luggers

[BasLouwMan]

Dear IFF-members,

Got a question on the price of this beautefull little falcons..

Why are they so low in price, because they're quiet hard to breed (in my experience)?

I've seen quiet some lugger falcons, my mentor breeds them himself. And most (i'm about to 'all') of them,males and females, turned out to be excellend lure falcons. We've had some flights with stoops from above 60m.

So pls add your opinion on this, maybe there are some other ppl who think it is even overpriced..we'll see...

Attached pictures:
1. Young female lugger
2. Male lugger

[Pearl]

i have a brill imprint female lugger she only has to hear me and she is at 7 oclock position i only paid 300 for her but god she was worth it lays every year and she has reared sakers i would like a imprint male for ai :supz:

[Matthew Patching]

They are so cheep because not many people want them for hunting, and the fact that they are excellent demo falcons falls by the wayside as they can and do throw tamtrums on occasion, which can realy make you look a fool!

I love luggers as lure birds and they are great to teach you the art of lure swinging, but unless you realy persist with then they show a poor quality flight at quarry in temperate climates.

If I had a female lugger that stood for ai, and layed every year, I'd put peregrine semen into it!:supz:

[Pearl]

ive got one of her daughters now in training female pere x lugger 06 bird ;)

[CJTaylor]

MT, a good mate of mine flew a pere/lanner,lugger, for years and i dont think this bird could be beat on partridge or pidgeon, its pitch ,stoops and obediance where quite extrodinary, he tried to find a similar mating but was unsuccessful, but old taff lives on in legend, if bern had taken this tiercel to woodhall or similar, most people on this sight would be familiar with its name,but alas he flew it like alot of us on his own and other mates hunting ground.He could come to mine put the bird up in my garden, we would walk through the estate with the dogs on leashes,, cross a busy road then arrive at the hunting ground the bird would just follow on over head, untill the dogs came on point.

[Pearl]

sound like a good bird mate would love to have seen that ;)

[BasLouwMan]

Thanx for all the input so far..

I don't think it has to do with their hunting qualities, but with the fact that people (2day the day) don't know the real power of lugger falcons..they are sold as beginner-falcons and stuff.

And they didn't teach me the art of lure swinging, especially not the male ones.They are quick as the wind (even quicker) when they're in good stoop, they turned me a lure, quiet some times..

Anybody anymore experience with breeding this little devils, we had quiet some problems with the eggs...out of 6 eggs, we has 2 young ones..year before only 1 out of 5..

[Baywinger]

I love the luggers, an excellent demo bird.

Not heard of many being used for hunting and for such a little bird, they can arf throw a big strop.

Not ideal for a beginners bird in my opinion. I think as to their price, it's a question of supply and demand.

But having flown one, as much as I love them, Lugger is not spelt with an "L" it's a silent "B".

[Matthew Patching]

I love the luggers, an excellent demo bird.

Not heard of many being used for hunting and for such a little bird, they can arf throw a big strop.

Not ideal for a beginners bird in my opinion. I think as to their price, it's a question of supply and demand.

But having flown one, as much as I love them, Lugger is not spelt with an "L" it's a silent "B".

True they can be ******s, but become very loyal and are exceptionaly hard to loose. I had an old female at tame hack for over 4 years before she finaly died at her block. I think she was about 18 when she finaly went.

The introduction of peregrine genes makes the perexlugger an excellent magpie hawk, they take them single handed without to much hawthorn climbing by the falconer.

Luggers just need to be understood here in the west, they are good at what they do, but you have to understand what they do before setting off on the path!:supz:

[Greg]

My first real falcon was a Lugger back in 1969. I flew the wings of her, I took a few rooks, One partridge and a few moorhens. Eventually I lost her while out flying. We had storms for several days and she was found soaked through and dead a few hunderd yards from home. As I lost her a few miles away it was almost as if she was looking for me. Boy I loved that bird, if we had telemetry back in those days I would never have lost her.
Greg

[Matthew Patching]

My first real falcon was a Lugger back in 1969. I flew the wings of her, I took a few rooks, One partridge and a few moorhens. Eventually I lost her while out flying. We had storms for several days and she was found soaked through and dead a few hunderd yards from home. As I lost her a few miles away it was almost as if she was looking for me. Boy I loved that bird, if we had telemetry back in those days I would never have lost her.
Greg

Greg, you would have still lost her, but you would have been able to locate her!

My female that was at tame hack got spotted about 15 miles away, and logged by the raf in lincolnshire (flying with 216 again slapped wrist i know) but still managed to get back less than 45 mins later for calling in and supper. and a warm bed for the night.

In 4 years she only spent one night away from her mews and then she was sat on next doors roof (about 4 miles away at the time). her flying wieght was about 1lb 8oz but all the time she was at hack she never dipped below 1lb 11oz.

[Baywinger]

Would love the chance to hunt with a lugger but I've got my heart on a perlin.

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

I have a pair together.

[Smelleken]

My first Falcon was a Lugger. Very friendly, easy going little bird. Fast as hell on the lure, even took a few Jackdaws and Starlings with him in Belgium.

http://i17.tinypic.com/2u56mi1.jpg


http://i17.tinypic.com/40nk8p5.jpg

[Jeremiah Johnson]

what sort of price are they going for?

[Pearl]

i think females are about 300 ish but to be fair mine is priceless :supz:

[BasLouwMan]

i think females are about 300 ish but to be fair mine is priceless

I think you're right with that, so much to low priced..

But before looking at the price, start looking at ppl who breed this little falcon. I dunno how it is in the UK, but here in Holland you can almost say there are 2 or 3 persons breeding luggers with succes. As said by me: 1 of 5 and 2 of 6 isn't a high % of breeding.

[Smelleken]

I think you're right with that, so much to low priced..

But before looking at the price, start looking at ppl who breed this little falcon. I dunno how it is in the UK, but here in Holland you can almost say there are 2 or 3 persons breeding luggers with succes. As said by me: 1 of 5 and 2 of 6 isn't a high % of breeding.

It is true, not many people are breeding Luggers with succes. But in the Netherlands there is not much demand for these birds, and that is keeping prices relatively low.

[Pearl]

i think the there is more a market for the pere x lugger than lugger ive only got mine rearing this year as no semon donor on site :(

[Saker-Clive]

what sort of price are they going for?


When I contacted a few breeders earlier this year I was quoted £150 upwards. I paid £200 for mine.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

As far as I know there are not many pairs breeding in the UK

Yooneek falconry has a pair he sells all females £375 males £300

However I went there and did not buy one


Bramely heath/hedge? raptors breeds them £600 a female all sold he told me

I have a pair that have hatched 3 per year but not succsesfully raised (Yet)

and K has just said he has a pair together

there are probably more "unadvertised" pairs about too

[Saker-Clive]

Mine came from Yooneek but I think there may be a little inbreeding going on!!

He was put to sleep because he had a congenital brain disorder:evil: I was offered his brother but I was told that it had dodgy alula's!!!! so did mine!!!!

[Pearl]

that is one nice looking falcon mate looks very very much like my pere x lugger

[Saker-Clive]

Out on a Wing in Norfolk advertised theirs from £150 but they didn't have any when I contacted them.

[Pearl]

i know tim and tina very nice couple i didnt know they bred them to be fair

[Saker-Clive]

I got there number out of the IBR.:supz:

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Mine came from Yooneek but I think there may be a little inbreeding going on!!

He was put to sleep because he had a congenital brain disorder:evil: I was offered his brother but I was told that it had dodgy alula's!!!! so did mine!!!!

Thats a shame what is it and what were the simptoms?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

My Luggers seem to have a moave sheen to the backs

will post some pics they are on my work computer (at work)

[Pearl]

love my girl her name is suger the lugger :supz:

[BasLouwMan]

I have a pair that have hatched 3 per year but not succsesfully raised (Yet)

and K has just said he has a pair together

there are probably more "unadvertised" pairs about too

What were the problems raising them, the problems we had were all in the eggs..

Things like humidity (is that the right word?) and water necks (what is the english term?, i mean that they couldn't turn because of the thickness of the neck)...

Pls excuse me for my bad english...

[Jeremiah Johnson]

She ate them !

will be incubating my self this year

[Jeremiah Johnson]

What were the problems raising them, the problems we had were all in the eggs..

Things like humidity (is that the right word?) and water necks (what is the english term?, i mean that they couldn't turn because of the thickness of the neck)...

Pls excuse me for my bad english...

Did you artificial incubation... what ever sounds like not enough weight loss

water knecks do you mean ... Inverted pip?

[Game & Pursuit Falcon UK]

The inbreeding thing is a major problem with Luggers. Thats why I have an F2 female. :yawinkle:

[BasLouwMan]

No, they're all hatched in normal surcomstances. We'll have a special machine to attach to the hatchmachine, so we can regulate the humidity, next breedingseason. Hope it works out fine, we'll see..

Thanx for all the input so far....

Another pic attached of the male:

[Jeremiah Johnson]

No, they're all hatched in normal surcomstances. We'll have a special machine to attach to the hatchmachine, so we can regulate the humidity, next breedingseason. Hope it works out fine, we'll see..

Thanx for all the input so far....

Another pic attached of the male:

Youve lost me

[Saker-Clive]

Thats a shame what is it and what were the simptoms?


The post mortem showed 2 brain heamorrages (sp) and pre-prioception. Basically he could see the food, lure etc. but something in his brain wouldn't switch over and he either 'pecked' all around and missed the food or he was biting his feet.............................

[BasLouwMan]

Did you artificial incubation... what ever sounds like not enough weight loss

water knecks do you mean ... Inverted pip?

Giving it another then:

The birds weren't bred with AI, we tried several things, PR/Social Imprint. We tried them: hatched under the Parents and putting the eggs in a breeding machine.

But we had problems: Inverted Pip, could be (maybe there is an Belgium or Dutch falconer on here who knows what: waternek is english)
But in our opinion, and the one of the vet..it all had to do with the humidity in the breeding machine. We now bought a machine to regulate the humidity inside the breeding machine...

More ppl having any experience with this, or other problems breeding trhis little devils?

[Smelleken]

Dear Bas,

explain in dutch what you mean with the word "waternek" and I try to translate it for you ;)

Robert

[Smelleken]

Bas means with the word waterneck, in English "chick neck oedema"

[LeighJauncey]

Anyone tried broodies - worked 100% for Merlins this year. I've an 8yr old male looking for a mate - possible breeding loan if anyone's interested

[Mansars]

I have to admit whne I first met our Lugger, she was very prone to having tantrums on my fist, but was fine with Dave. After a few eeks she was much better, she, and I have been told are very fussy about everything. When hooding even now she has a small moan, sometimes even a bate, but it always takes three attempts, never any less or more.

She is very pretty though

[BasLouwMan]

Lovely looking luggers you all got,

About using tail mount as leg mounts, we used this combination several times and it worked out just fine..(totally off thread)

Thanks for all the input m8s, i'll let you know what next years breeding results are..with hopefully a little diary :)

[Mansars]

A tail mount thats been leg mounted..
an interesting combination that im sure will let you down


Tinto

She dropped her Centre decks that week.

However why would they fail, just as good as putting on the tail mount.. obviously if your experienced anough to put it on correctly and trust your equipment.