Anatum/Peale's Peregrine versus European Peregrines

[Smelleken]

Has anyone experience with these Peregrines ? Is there much difference in flying/ hunting styles, handeling, temperament between these Peregrine's and their European counterparts. Please also post some pictures of these birds.

Many thanks for your opinion.

[Terry Hanson]

Has anyone experience with these Peregrines ? Is there much difference in flying/ hunting styles, handeling, temperament between these Peregrine's and their European counterparts. Please also post some pictures of these birds.

Many thanks for your opinion.

Robert, I flew a Peales tiercel this season. I found them to be buoyant, very fast in level flight and very aggressive on quarry. Very good water resistant plumage for an eyas.
Terry

[Smelleken]

Dear Terry,

Nice tiercel, on what kind of prey do you mostly hunt him ? Do you even use him for pestcontrol ?

[Dean]

Flew a anatum tiercel,smaller and less powerful than peregrinus! Temperement similar and mild,his flying was less predictable,bouyant with intermittant fast arial soaring,almost hobby like! He did do a job but with less venom than any tiercel peregrine flown! No advantage!

[Smelleken]

Thanks Dean,

Always the returning question :lol: At what weight did you approx hunt him ??

[Terry Hanson]

Dear Terry,

Nice tiercel, on what kind of prey do you mostly hunt him ? Do you even use him for pestcontrol ?

Robert, game birds. I was going to use him for airfield bird control, but he got put off of gulls by a Lesser Blackback. So I changed his training for game. Hunting weight was 1lb 8 1/2oz although I did trim an ounce off of him to get a bit of discipline back after he went chasing rooks.
He took pheasant and partridge.
Maybe ducks next season
Terry

[Dean]

Hello mate,he was well conditioned for field at 1lb 3oz,limited success at small duck!

[Kentish Falconry]

Flew a anatum tiercel,smaller and less powerful than peregrinus! Temperement similar and mild,his flying was less predictable,bouyant with intermittant fast arial soaring,almost hobby like! He did do a job but with less venom than any tiercel peregrine flown! No advantage!

Hi Dean & Robert,

Robert thanks for the phone call

Anatums
Dean I don't know where you got your Anatum from but I can guess :lol:
I have 3 bloodlines of Anatums here all Imported and from absolute pure lines I have not found them to be Hobby like at all our tiercels will hunt at around 1lb 5ozs/6ozs Females 2 lbs + they gain height easily and I have never had to use a kite to get them up there, their nature is excellent and they make great Game Hawks just ask Brad Mitchell, We have mainly used them for Duck and Pheasants the Tiercels are great on Female Pheasant and Partridges but will also take Ducks. It is the lack of venom that you state that has me confused of the ones I have flown there was no lack of aggression on quarry and some of the stoops were amazing, once locked onto a target not too many escaped, Probably my favourite Peregrines to date.

Peales
Again I have a number of pure bloodlines, 6 in fact, These birds are excellent hunters but they are very Gyr like in style there is not much they can't take down in level flight, you can get them to gain height and wait on but they soon learn they don't need this height and take stand at a much lower pitch than you want normally ending in a track down after a tail chase. Tight weight control is needed with these big Peregrines to achieve what you want, as for temperament? I have yet to meet a mild mannered one Imprint or P/R they have beaks like bolt croppers and know how to use them and will given the chance. However they are as already stated great Falcons and show no fear of quarry and will pile into cover after it's selected prey thinks it can escape.

Scottish Peregrines
We have some of the best bloodlines available in the UK here and have done our best to ensure that our lines are pure and unrelated, this on it's own is very difficult to achieve especially after some of the facts revealed by Steve Summers. I like to think we can and will produce some great Game Hawks from these lines but we will have to retain a number of these Falcons this coming season to ensure we don't loose these lines.
Not a lot more I can say about these Peregrines that you Guy's don't already know, Good temperament, good style and best suited as Game Hawks, can be flown as pursuit Falcons but I find Pere x Saker or Gyr x Peregrines (male) are better suited to this style of flight. This last statement is not much good to Robert however as he is in Holland and not allowed to hunt with Hybrids at all.
Terry (tongue in cheek)

[Terry Hanson]

Has anyone experience with these Peregrines ? Is there much difference in flying/ hunting styles, handeling, temperament between these Peregrine's and their European counterparts. Please also post some pictures of these birds.

Many thanks for your opinion.

Robert, going back to your original question, they are no better than our Peregrines in my opinion. Just different. In flight they appear very similar to a gyr/Pere hybrid.
Terry

[Kentish Falconry]

Robert, going back to your original question, they are no better than our Peregrines in my opinion. Just different. In flight they appear very similar to a gyr/Pere hybrid.
Terry

Hi Terry How are you mate?

Sorry I neglected to answer this as I had already said the same as you to Robert on the Phone, Like minds so to say
Terry B

[Smelleken]

Thanks Terry, that's just the information I was looking for.

[Terry Hanson]

Hi Dean & Robert,

Robert thanks for the phone call



Peales
However they are as already stated great Falcons and show no fear of quarry and will pile into cover after it's selected prey thinks it can escape.

Terry (tongue in cheek)

Terry I would agree with you there, my tiercel done exactly that after a wild grey partridge whilst out hawking with Sam and Dave Goff. He flew it into a hedge like a goshawk.
Terry H

[Kentish Falconry]

Terry I would agree with you there, my tiercel done exactly that after a wild grey partridge whilst out hawking with Sam and Dave Goff. He flew it into a hedge like a goshawk.
Terry H

Hi Terry
Nutters they are for sure but still great hunting partners IMHO
Terry

[Dean]

Terry, think you may have guessed correctly:wink: i flew him for a friend who cut his guides! Maybe my opinion on this thread means jack for i am no ace having only flown the one! They were however derived from field experience! This peticular bird was rangey,not cobby,with very long slender wings! He gained his pitch well,stooped well,never over performing any peregrine tiercel i have personally flown!

[Kentish Falconry]

Terry, think you may have guessed correctly:wink: i flew him for a friend who cut his guides! Maybe my opinion on this thread means jack for i am no ace having only flown the one! They were however derived from field experience! This peticular bird was rangey,not cobby,with very long slender wings! He gained his pitch well,stooped well,never over performing any peregrine tiercel i have personally flown!

I might be tempted to let you have one of mine on loan M8 just so you can see the difference. These birds are like rockets, There is one still in the Hack Pen but it is not for sale ( you have flown the rest now try the best :lol: :lol: ) :twisted:
Terry

[Dean]

Dont intrigue me terry, i may be forced to buy one for next season! Ah! For a tiercel that will guarentee mallard!:lol:

[Kentish Falconry]

Dont intrigue me terry, i may be forced to buy one for next season! Ah! For a tiercel that will guarentee mallard!:lol:

Dean.......... I am but a breeder M8 I can only supply you with the best bird I can for the job the rest is up to you, your training methods and disciplines. I am sure you would not let me or the Falcon down but I can offer no guarantees that you will succeed in your quest only the best raw materials to start you off.
Terry :supz:

[Terry Hanson]

Hi Terry
Nutters they are for sure but still great hunting partners IMHO
Terry

Terry, I feel a 50/50 with a Scottish Peregrine would produce an interesting falcon with loads of bottle. I know Neil (Berkut) had a very good falcon from this cross.
I must agree if your not too much of a purist looking for style they are a very good hunting partner. Like all Falcons they get better with age and experience, so I'm looking forward to see how he plays out after his first moult.
Terry

[Kentish Falconry]

Terry, I feel a 50/50 with a Scottish Peregrine would produce an interesting falcon with loads of bottle. I know Neil (Berkut) had a very good falcon from this cross.
I must agree if your not too much of a purist looking for style they are a very good hunting parnter. Like all Falcons they get better with age and experience, so I'm looking forward to see how he plays out after his first moult.
Terry

Hi Terry
I think you will find Colin Pass has a Female from this year that he was training not sure if it was 50/50 or 25/75 Peales though, but from what he said to me it was a bloody good Falcon. My problem here though is that I am trying to produce high quality pure lines from natural pairs and only using the Imprints for Hybrids that are intended for Export or UK sales. I have 2 or 3 Scottish Peregrine Falcons in the Imprint chambers that I really need to produce some pure Peregrines from before it is too late
Terry

[Berkut]

Terry, I feel a 50/50 with a Scottish Peregrine would produce an interesting falcon with loads of bottle. I know Neil (Berkut) had a very good falcon from this cross.
I must agree if your not too much of a purist looking for style they are a very good hunting partner. Like all Falcons they get better with age and experience, so I'm looking forward to see how he plays out after his first moult.
Terry

Yes I flew a 50/50 female on gulls till she broke her wing in her 3rd season.
She flew gulls best at 1lb 15 oz but I dare say at game she would have flown around 2lb 2oz.On gulls she was excellent and homed to the site,regularly specking out,while waiting for a gull to show itself.When she did end up on a tail chase her speed was phenominal.

[MitchellBrad]

Hi Dean & Robert,

Robert thanks for the phone call

Terry (tongue in cheek)

Terry,

Real quick. My favorite peregrine is the anatum falcon followed by the peales tiercel. I like high flying and wide ranging birds that will key on you the moment you signal them. My experience is a good intermewed anatum has almost a surgical strike where as the peales often rely on brute force. Anatums do have something about them that the inexperienced falconer doesn't see. They do what I call the 'scam flight' they can take advantage of every error the falconer makes and make the falconer think something is wrong. The peales don't do this from my experience. The anatums might set their wings at a few hundred feet and make the falconer think it's ready for the flush. If you wait them out or flush wild that behavior will quit in a hurry. I also find the anatum is much more manuverable than the peales.

Lastly the anatums I'm familiar with are intense in everything they do. They seem to take it personally when a grouse makes a fool out of them and won't make the same mistake again.

I will say there are fans of both subspecies. Some like to see one thing and others like something else. I prefer to see a stoop or two, have the break off and ring back up. The peales I've flown are libel to chase quarry such as grouse out of sight. Something no experienced anatum would think of unless they saw the bird was injured. Those damned peales just go and go and go. I got a gyr for that:yawinkle:

Incidentally, locally, the anatums are the most popular peregrine.

Brad

[Dean]

Interesting! Brad how would you rate the anatum alongside pure peregrinus in lowland britain?:yawinkle:

[MitchellBrad]

Interesting! Brad how would you rate the anatum alongside pure peregrinus in lowland britain?:yawinkle:

Of course I can't dean. I can only tell you my impressions about the two species I have available to fly. The only peregrinus I've seen were at Terry's. On the other hand can you compare these two to the peregrinus at lets say sharptails or chickens?:) :yawinkle: BTW, we don't have lowland game here, it's all called upland game:lol:

[Mac]

very interesting thread, and im a dyed in the wool shortwinger...

terry how would you evaluate brookeis temperament and field capabilities?

all the best

sean

[Kentish Falconry]

very interesting thread, and im a dyed in the wool shortwinger...

terry how would you evaluate brookeis temperament and field capabilities?

all the best

sean

Hi Sean........Been there and done that :lol: sorry M8 have had Brookei here and sold them on about 10 years ago. I found them lacking in all forms of our sport whereas the Barbary excelled tenacious little Basta*ds
Terry

[Kentish Falconry]

Terry,

Real quick. My favorite peregrine is the anatum falcon followed by the peales tiercel. I like high flying and wide ranging birds that will key on you the moment you signal them. My experience is a good intermewed anatum has almost a surgical strike where as the peales often rely on brute force. Anatums do have something about them that the inexperienced falconer doesn't see. They do what I call the 'scam flight' they can take advantage of every error the falconer makes and make the falconer think something is wrong. The peales don't do this from my experience. The anatums might set their wings at a few hundred feet and make the falconer think it's ready for the flush. If you wait them out or flush wild that behavior will quit in a hurry. I also find the anatum is much more manuverable than the peales.

Lastly the anatums I'm familiar with are intense in everything they do. They seem to take it personally when a grouse makes a fool out of them and won't make the same mistake again.

I will say there are fans of both subspecies. Some like to see one thing and others like something else. I prefer to see a stoop or two, have the break off and ring back up. The peales I've flown are libel to chase quarry such as grouse out of sight. Something no experienced anatum would think of unless they saw the bird was injured. Those damned peales just go and go and go. I got a gyr for that:yawinkle:

Incidentally, locally, the anatums are the most popular peregrine.

Brad


Brad can we have the long answer later please :lol: :twisted:

I have to say I agree with you on all points, although my Anatum's were not here when you were you know the bloodlines I have so you will know just how well they Hunt
ATB
Terry :supz:

[MitchellBrad]

Brad can we have the long answer later please :lol: :twisted:

I have to say I agree with you on all points, although my Anatum's were not here when you were you know the bloodlines I have so you will know just how well they Hunt
ATB
Terry :supz:

Nothing wrong with your birds Terry. I'd be proud to fly one.

Brad

[Kentish Falconry]

Nothing wrong with your birds Terry. I'd be proud to fly one.

Brad

Thanks Brad I feel humbled at that comment
Terry :yawinkle:

[MitchellBrad]

Thanks Brad I feel humbled at that comment
Terry :yawinkle:

Facts is facts Terry. They happen to be good birds, that's all there is to it.

Had an immy gos in chasing pigeons a little while ago. Man, the pigeons blew her off quick. That'll teach her to mess with the old "Evade and climb" line of pigeons. She probably already ate the dummies:) Actually gosses are just showing up around here. Had a male with a broken primary in a couple days ago. That same day a merlin wizzed by and a prairie got burned by the flock.

Brad

[MitchellBrad]

Facts is facts Terry. They happen to be good birds, that's all there is to it.

Had an immy gos in chasing pigeons a little while ago. Man, the pigeons blew her off quick. That'll teach her to mess with the old "Evade and climb" line of pigeons. She probably already ate the dummies:) Actually gosses are just showing up around here. Had a male with a broken primary in a couple days ago. That same day a merlin wizzed by and a prairie got burned by the flock.

Brad

Terry,

I just flew the gyr. She took a great pitch and crumpled a hen. I was happy.

The place was full of raptors. When I parked at the field a gos goes by flying like a longwing. it was motoring along the river. Turned the gyr loose after the gos was gone, she motored up very well, dog bumped a hen that flew great. It was about 30 feet in the air heading for God knows where when she hit it. After I found her in the grass and was getting ready to pick her up I saw her looking at something. Another gyr went by. The walk back to the truck was a couple of hundred yards when Stanley quit eating and began to watch a prairie tiercel working to the east.

It was a good evening. Had to share it with someone. Since my wife could care less.

Brad

[Terry Hanson]

Terry,

I just flew the gyr. She took a great pitch and crumpled a hen. I was happy.

The place was full of raptors. When I parked at the field a gos goes by flying like a longwing. it was motoring along the river. Turned the gyr loose after the gos was gone, she motored up very well, dog bumped a hen that flew great. It was about 30 feet in the air heading for God knows where when she hit it. After I found her in the grass and was getting ready to pick her up I saw her looking at something. Another gyr went by. The walk back to the truck was a couple of hundred yards when Stanley quit eating and began to watch a prairie tiercel working to the east.

It was a good evening. Had to share it with someone. Since my wife could care less.
Brad

Brad, most don't give a S##t <g>
been there got the T-shirt.
Nice story Brad, How's Steed coming along.
Terry H

[MitchellBrad]

Brad, most don't give a S##t <g>
been there got the T-shirt.
Nice story Brad, How's Steed coming along.
Terry H

Hey Terry,

I've put Steed up along with the anatum due to unforseen family problems. The only bird I'm flying is the gyr. Plus it looks like my boy will be going to Afghanistan after only being back in the states for a few months. Hope this doesn't happen. This has been a pretty screwed up year.

Brad

[Terry Hanson]

Hey Terry,

I've put Steed up along with the anatum due to unforseen family problems. The only bird I'm flying is the gyr. Plus it looks like my boy will be going to Afghanistan after only being back in the states for a few months. Hope this doesn't happen. This has been a pretty screwed up year.

Brad

Good Luck Brad, hope things work out for you Okay. It's pretty grim out there I know.
Best wishes
Terry