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young apprentice
13-02-2007, 09:38 PM
i would just like to ask people if the male ferrouginous is worth trying for a hunting bird as on a differant thread a guy was saying that his male had caught rabbits (how many i do not know). but i am interested in this bird and all the books tell me that they are pretty much useless for hunting but i know that these books aren't entirely accurate.I'd rather get a view of someone who has hunting experiance with a male. also i'd just like to know which sex would be better for hunting pheasant and if you can aslo tell me if the ferouginous would be useful for catching pheasant/partridge on a regular basis.

TMoritz
13-02-2007, 09:45 PM
When I was in Wyoming a couple years ago harvesting an eyass female I got to observe them at the nest site.

I think the tiercel ferrug can be taught to "wait-on" because the tiercels were stooping my head from 200' for 45 minutes in a no-wind situation. Slope soaring would be even easier.

So what do you do with a 32 ounce Ferrug? I think they would be great at european rabbits and excellent on ducks and pheasants.

No one has tried the tiercel Ferrug with much effort but they may prove to be an excellent falconry bird if flown more like a falcon than a hawk.

Barbary Boy
13-02-2007, 10:00 PM
read some more books m8! ferru at partridges?

FalconryMews101
14-02-2007, 07:06 AM
BB take it easy on the guy he's only asking a question as a newcomer.

Oscar
14-02-2007, 07:20 AM
How ya doin, :lol:

Look at some threads posted by Taowolf, he flies a male ferrug very successfully. You should find a good deal of info there.

Intek Hosting
14-02-2007, 08:29 AM
The male's small feet are perfectly suited to hunting ground squirrels and prairy dogs in their natural environment.
This along with a gape bigger than a female goldie allows them to swallow these small prey, whole or in a few bites.
A male will most certainly attack our rabbits, but holding on to them can be a little tricky and you may need to do a fair bit of drag lure work to teach him where to direct his feet.
Their small feet do allow them to grab around the neck but more than any bird I've flown, their talons need to be in tip top condition and needle sharp. Once they pentrate the skin they will not let go and Mwagi's feet though less than half the size of Jessica's feet have more squeezing power and he does tend to penetrate gloves with them.

More than anything if you get a ferru hunting you will be impressed by their lack of brakes. They hit things with everything they have got going flat out, including being called to the fist.
I read the "fly them like a falcon" analogy with interest, though I would have to say my opinion is they should be flown like a small Eagle.
Incredibly boyant birds, Mwagi spent 45 minute on the wing in a car showroom on the first day of his eighth week of life. He wasnt even hard penned and he could stay off the ground circling round for 45 minutes, with absolutely no wind to give him lift.
Amazing birds, but then I'm a total fan of them.

SSL
14-02-2007, 11:41 AM
also i'd just like to know which sex would be better for hunting pheasant and if you can aslo tell me if the ferouginous would be useful for catching pheasant/partridge on a regular basis.

Neither species would provide consistant sport on Game, you wouldnt even be able to mug Game from trees as with a HH or Redtail.

Intek Hosting
14-02-2007, 04:54 PM
you wouldnt even be able to mug Game from trees as with a HH or Redtail.
Perhaps that's because a Ferruginous hawk is neither a Harris Hawk or a Redtail!!!

I'm sorry but your reply is about as much use as someone commenting that a goldie is not much good because they dont take grouse.
Get a game bird away from cover and out in the open and I have little doubt a ferrug could not only take them, but would do so following an impressive stoop.

Stoaty
14-02-2007, 06:32 PM
Send a pm to Taowolf. I just spoke to him about ordering a bird this year. Great bloke and he will be able to answer all your questions.

Taowolf
14-02-2007, 08:43 PM
I have read all replys with great interest on this thread. And came to the conclusion that some people on the forum only go with the proven game hawk / falcons. In my opinion this is the norm, everybody knows that RT and HH, Gosses can kill all day everyday. These birds can be trained to kill easily and swiftly. I have seen some of the worst trained birds murder a kill.

I like a challange, and the BUZZ of an accomplishment well done. Especially when i do something that cant be done.:rolleyes: :lol:

I think my threads speak for them selfs folks, Personally i think male Ferrugs can kill just as good as another hawk if not better.But always in there own style. That is why i love the Ferruginous Hawk.

Regards Cameron.

Fenlands Rescue
14-02-2007, 08:52 PM
Neither species would provide consistant sport on Game, you wouldnt even be able to mug Game from trees as with a HH or Redtail.

Steve I know you are a far superior falconer than I am by reading your threads but how can you say that if you have never trained or flown a Ferrug?

young apprentice
14-02-2007, 08:59 PM
I have read all replys with great interest on this thread. And came to the conclusion that some people on the forum only go with the proven game hawk / falcons. In my opinion this is the norm, everybody knows that RT and HH, Gosses can kill all day everyday. These birds can be trained to kill easily and swiftly. I have seen some of the worst trained birds murder a kill.

I like a challange, and the BUZZ of an accomplishment well done. Especially when i do something that cant be done.:rolleyes: :lol:

I think my threads speak for them selfs folks, Personally i think male Ferrugs can kill just as good as another hawk if not better.But always in there own style. That is why i love the Ferruginous Hawk.

Regards Cameron.

thanks for the reply and i like the idea of the challenge and the feel of accomplishment if i caught a pheasant with a ferru i think it would give me more satisfaction than if i caught one with a gos. knowing that the bird is performing above average

Taowolf
14-02-2007, 09:16 PM
Hope things go well for you in your search for the correct Raptor. The Ferrugs are just as equal to any other raptor out there so dont miss judge them as others do without researching them.

Please let me know if i can help in anyway my friend.:-D

Regards Cameron.

Berkut
14-02-2007, 09:33 PM
I have read all replys with great interest on this thread. And came to the conclusion that some people on the forum only go with the proven game hawk / falcons. In my opinion this is the norm, everybody knows that RT and HH, Gosses can kill all day everyday. These birds can be trained to kill easily and swiftly. I have seen some of the worst trained birds murder a kill.

I like a challange, and the BUZZ of an accomplishment well done. Especially when i do something that cant be done.:rolleyes: :lol:

I think my threads speak for them selfs folks, Personally i think male Ferrugs can kill just as good as another hawk if not better.But always in there own style. That is why i love the Ferruginous Hawk.

Regards Cameron.

Good post.Not so much a case of don,t knock it till you,ve tried it , but don,t knock it till you,ve tried it properley.

I have never personally flown a Ferruginous, but have seen a couple flown badly by below average falconers.I saw potential in them and would never have come to a conclusion until I have seen one in the right hands and look forward to it.

Fenlands Rescue
14-02-2007, 09:52 PM
Good post.Not so much a case of don,t knock it till you,ve tried it , but don,t knock it till you,ve tried it properley.

I have never personally flown a Ferruginous, but have seen a couple flown badly by below average falconers.I saw potential in them and would never have come to a conclusion until I have seen one in the right hands and look forward to it.

Well said Neil.
Sometimes get fed up of people knocking Ferrug's without trying them first.

Intek Hosting
14-02-2007, 10:31 PM
Well said Neil.
Sometimes get fed up of people knocking Ferrug's without trying them first.
What makes me laugh is half the clowns knocking them dont realize a hungry ferru would try and swallow their bird whole and stand a better chance than most of succeeding.

Taowolf
15-02-2007, 08:48 AM
It comes down to the same thing as always people are commenting on things they havent tried or knowledge about. This is not a slagging match in my opinion, just some knowledge for everybody to soak up if they choose. I fly Ferrugs and like to think i know a little on them. But at the same time, i dont like HH but i dont bad mouth them. Every bird is different, so you choose the bird that suits your requirements. But remember always take into consideration what the bird needs. That is first and for most the best way to get you on your way as a falconer. The more you put into a bird, the better the bird becomes.

Simple but very effective.:lol:

Regards Cameron.

SSL
15-02-2007, 10:28 AM
Perhaps that's because a Ferruginous hawk is neither a Harris Hawk or a Redtail!!!

I'm sorry but your reply is about as much use as someone commenting that a goldie is not much good because they dont take grouse.
Get a game bird away from cover and out in the open and I have little doubt a ferrug could not only take them, but would do so following an impressive stoop.

Not really the poster is asking about a Ferruginous hawks performance on game.

I'm not saying they are not any good, I'm saying they wont offer consistant sporting flights on game.

If you beleive this to be wrong prove me wrong, I'll come and watch you fly your Ferru on game birds anyday.

(Oh Goldies take Grouse and Ptarmigan by the way)

SSL
15-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Steve I know you are a far superior falconer than I am by reading your threads but how can you say that if you have never trained or flown a Ferrug?

Hi George,

I'm no better a Falconer than anyone else.

As I've said to Jessica, I'd loved to proved wrong.

If Ferruginous hawks offered consistant sporting flights on game, I'm sure more would be flown in this country, considering the price difference between them and Goshawks.

Remember the poster is asking about flights on game... so I'm not knocking Ferrus, just saying they arent the 'tool' for the job.

SSL
15-02-2007, 10:37 AM
It comes down to the same thing as always people are commenting on things they havent tried or knowledge about. This is not a slagging match in my opinion, just some knowledge for everybody to soak up if they choose. I fly Ferrugs and like to think i know a little on them. But at the same time, i dont like HH but i dont bad mouth them. Every bird is different, so you choose the bird that suits your requirements. But remember always take into consideration what the bird needs. That is first and for most the best way to get you on your way as a falconer. The more you put into a bird, the better the bird becomes.

Simple but very effective.:lol:

Regards Cameron.

No it comes down to the fact the poster asked if the Ferru would take game consistantly.

I said no, its not the tool for the job.

I dont need to have flown one to know this I dont need to smack myself in the head with a hammer to know it will hurt.

As I've now said to Jessica and George, please prove me wrong.

Taowolf
15-02-2007, 04:15 PM
Mr Lambert, The question was i Quote- Is the male ferrug useful for hunting.
And the answer is obviously YES. My breeding male was taken cock and hen pheasants on a regular basis when i flew him, so again the answer is yes. As i said in my previous reply it may take longer to get the specific raptor in question to bind to quarry but when it does, words cannont describe the feeling. To have a hawk wait on like a falcon, then stoop and kill the quarry. It is all worth it, in the end.

Tell me, do goshawks hunt in this way?

I am not saying that gosses or RT,HH are not any use. They do what they do.

As regarding hitting yourself with a hammer i think you should see a anger specilist.

Regards Cameron.

Berkut
15-02-2007, 04:32 PM
I think what has to be realized is that the Ferruginious is a specialist type raptor and has to be treated as such.If you intend to fly one, you have to do your homework and fly it for what it is ,not for what it can be compared to. It should not be compared to anything. I have only respect for any person ,who will take on any raptor ,with the sole intent of giving their all to get the best out the bird.If you haven,t flown one your opinion is worthless to a degree.(mine included)

Judd Casper
15-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Mr Lambert, The question was i Quote- Is the male ferrug useful for hunting.
And the answer is obviously YES. My breeding male was taken cock and hen pheasants on a regular basis when i flew him, so again the answer is yes. As i said in my previous reply it may take longer to get the specific raptor in question to bind to quarry but when it does, words cannont describe the feeling. To have a hawk wait on like a falcon, then stoop and kill the quarry. It is all worth it, in the end.

Tell me, do goshawks hunt in this way?

I am not saying that gosses or RT,HH are not any use. They do what they do.

As regarding hitting yourself with a hammer i think you should see a anger specilist.

Regards Cameron.Hi Cameron
I think on one of the american dvd's the road to yuba city their is a chap flying a ferrug which takes a duck in the way you described and a friend witnessed a female take a brown hare at a field meet in the same manner some years ago also a keeper I knew who flew one in Scotland took a black grouse with his female and that took pheasant regularly but most of his flights on pheasant were down hill with the pheasants trying to get back in to woods and the like.I have never seen one flown but have only read reports mainly in nafa journals and the like about this hawk and the americans do great things with them.From what i can gather given the space they are incredibly fast when they get going.

Sam

TMoritz
15-02-2007, 08:07 PM
I wanted to share an article I published on this topic with the group:

This article is shared with the permission of www.onlinefalconry.com and the author. It is not to be reproduced elsewhere without consent.


First off, Ferrugs are incredibly powerful and dangerous. I've flown female
Finnish goshawks, a half dozen Harris' and I've pulled countless passage
redtails off of traps and nothing compares to the Ferrug. The tiny feet of a
Ferrug are incredibly powerful and are designed to do tremendous damage to a
smaller area of prey. The quarry they kill in the wild are hares to some
extent, but mostly prairie dogs. Their natural prey is thick skinned and has a
tremendous bite. It is due to the prairie dog's biting nature (picture a 6
pound ground squirrel) that the Ferrug has evolved short toes to minimise
injuries from bites.

Secondly, Ferrugs hunt in a bizarre and potentially frustrating style that
I'll elaborate upon in a moment. Ferrugs hate trees and they are much more
comfortable hunting while sitting on a ridge, slope soaring, or WAITING ON.
(in the true sense, not soaring) Ferrugs are also predated by golden eagles
ruthlessly so they have evolved a couple of skills that are trying on the
falconer. For instance, Ferrugs love to eat guts of the prey. As fast as you
can run up to a Ferrug it has already eviscerated the quarry and ate all the
entrails to the tune of a full gorge. This behaviour is instinctive due to
their dine and dash style in the wild. A ferrug that doesn't eat quickly dies
in the grasp of a golden eagle. While not relevant, I hypothesise the dark
colour phase may be a survival mechanism for a portion of the gene pool since
it mimics a golden eagle and in so doing may make the eagle a bit more
merciful. Another for instance, the Ferrugs DO NOT easily let go of their prey
so multiple kills is a serious challenge. If you are sloppy stepping them off
you could end up with 3.5 pounds of booted eagle attached to your face!

Third point of my introduction is their style of hunting. The Ferrugs are VERY
fast when they want to be and they are wingloaded to handle incredible distant
flights. They are totally specialised and take all the time in the world to
analyse their flights. You will find that a Ferrug may bob its head as it
watches a running hare 300 yards away (or even 3 feet away) for many, many
seconds. Once the Ferrug has dialled in the prey, assured itself that the area
is free of eagles, and made up its mind, it will fly tremendous distances and
kill hares that would be unattainable by any gos, harris or redtail.

Okay, so why the long preface? I wanted to clear up some misconceptions that
may alter your training regimen significantly.

Point 1 - Don't feed on the fist, use a lure. The bird can be just too damned
dangerous and aggressive to have a food association to your hand.

Point 2 - Find hares that run in any area totally absent of cover. Ferrugs
kill by flying longer than a hare can run.

Point 3 - Ferrugs grow slowly and if legal, I'd insist you use lots of
baggies. Better yet, I would start hunting in the summer when young,
inexperienced prey abounds and let the Ferrug build an ego on very dumb prey.
In the USA we don't do any exercise or conditioning because we can let nature
take its course with prudent choice of slips and getting into the field early
in the season. So, barring all those options I'd suggest you drag a carcass on
a very long line or better yet, (if legal) wound a few hares to slow them down
and let the ferrug finish the job to get it confident.

Point 4 - I suspect if the bird is gentle it is overweight, but there are
exceptions. When at weight, my ferrug was dangerous in the mew and during
transport. In the field everything was just fine unless it had caught
something. Be prepared to lean on the Ferrug and crank down on the bird's
weight to get it going; they are stubborn.

Point 5 - Accept the fact that they are totally specialised hunters that will
not adapt to things like hunting in cover or out of trees. They are a booted
eagle from the great plains of America. I've never been to the UK but it seems
like they would be an ideal hawk for Northumberland, anywhere along Hadrian's
wall, Salisbury Plain, or Scotland. You need lots of land and very little
cover to bring out the natural qualities of the Ferrug.

Fenlands Rescue
15-02-2007, 08:42 PM
I wanted to share an article I published on this topic with the group:

This article is shared with the permission of www.onlinefalconry.com and the author. It is not to be reproduced elsewhere without consent.


First off, Ferrugs are incredibly powerful and dangerous. I've flown female
Finnish goshawks, a half dozen Harris' and I've pulled countless passage
redtails off of traps and nothing compares to the Ferrug. The tiny feet of a
Ferrug are incredibly powerful and are designed to do tremendous damage to a
smaller area of prey. The quarry they kill in the wild are hares to some
extent, but mostly prairie dogs. Their natural prey is thick skinned and has a
tremendous bite. It is due to the prairie dog's biting nature (picture a 6
pound ground squirrel) that the Ferrug has evolved short toes to minimise
injuries from bites.

Secondly, Ferrugs hunt in a bizarre and potentially frustrating style that
I'll elaborate upon in a moment. Ferrugs hate trees and they are much more
comfortable hunting while sitting on a ridge, slope soaring, or WAITING ON.
(in the true sense, not soaring) Ferrugs are also predated by golden eagles
ruthlessly so they have evolved a couple of skills that are trying on the
falconer. For instance, Ferrugs love to eat guts of the prey. As fast as you
can run up to a Ferrug it has already eviscerated the quarry and ate all the
entrails to the tune of a full gorge. This behaviour is instinctive due to
their dine and dash style in the wild. A ferrug that doesn't eat quickly dies
in the grasp of a golden eagle. While not relevant, I hypothesise the dark
colour phase may be a survival mechanism for a portion of the gene pool since
it mimics a golden eagle and in so doing may make the eagle a bit more
merciful. Another for instance, the Ferrugs DO NOT easily let go of their prey
so multiple kills is a serious challenge. If you are sloppy stepping them off
you could end up with 3.5 pounds of booted eagle attached to your face!

Third point of my introduction is their style of hunting. The Ferrugs are VERY
fast when they want to be and they are wingloaded to handle incredible distant
flights. They are totally specialised and take all the time in the world to
analyse their flights. You will find that a Ferrug may bob its head as it
watches a running hare 300 yards away (or even 3 feet away) for many, many
seconds. Once the Ferrug has dialled in the prey, assured itself that the area
is free of eagles, and made up its mind, it will fly tremendous distances and
kill hares that would be unattainable by any gos, harris or redtail.

Okay, so why the long preface? I wanted to clear up some misconceptions that
may alter your training regimen significantly.

Point 1 - Don't feed on the fist, use a lure. The bird can be just too damned
dangerous and aggressive to have a food association to your hand.

Point 2 - Find hares that run in any area totally absent of cover. Ferrugs
kill by flying longer than a hare can run.

Point 3 - Ferrugs grow slowly and if legal, I'd insist you use lots of
baggies. Better yet, I would start hunting in the summer when young,
inexperienced prey abounds and let the Ferrug build an ego on very dumb prey.
In the USA we don't do any exercise or conditioning because we can let nature
take its course with prudent choice of slips and getting into the field early
in the season. So, barring all those options I'd suggest you drag a carcass on
a very long line or better yet, (if legal) wound a few hares to slow them down
and let the ferrug finish the job to get it confident.

Point 4 - I suspect if the bird is gentle it is overweight, but there are
exceptions. When at weight, my ferrug was dangerous in the mew and during
transport. In the field everything was just fine unless it had caught
something. Be prepared to lean on the Ferrug and crank down on the bird's
weight to get it going; they are stubborn.

Point 5 - Accept the fact that they are totally specialised hunters that will
not adapt to things like hunting in cover or out of trees. They are a booted
eagle from the great plains of America. I've never been to the UK but it seems
like they would be an ideal hawk for Northumberland, anywhere along Hadrian's
wall, Salisbury Plain, or Scotland. You need lots of land and very little
cover to bring out the natural qualities of the Ferrug.

Troy as you know I think this a great insight into flying a passage Ferrug.
Because of their specialised needs they will never be as appreciated as they should.

Taowolf
15-02-2007, 09:30 PM
Hey Troy, You have obviously flowen these raptors and have great knowledge on them in your enviroment. I read your notes with interest and note that your ferruginous was very aggresive.

I have encountered this in both species but have always managed to work through it. In the first and second year depending on level of aggression i always leave my birds to one kill per day. Making in can be difficult, but once quarry is dispatched i never open the carcess up. This i leave to the bird. 9/10 when i go in to pick him/her up after a crop full i show my glove with quail,rabbit etc and up they come. They are really pumped and charged so have to be very aware of what you are up to with bare hands. I have always introduced the both lures to these raptors, but never fed them on it instead of the fist. Again no problems.

I put alot of time into manning these birds, and i find that removing my birds from parents at 50 days helps with aggression as i feel these birds get frustrated easily and quickly. And therefore like to get them started on a life on their own asap.

I have, and never will rush training or entering these birds as this also causes problems in the future events of hunting with ferruginous hawks.

I am kean to here more of your expierences with ferruginous hawks and will read with interest. If you wish to enlighten us with your knowledge on these wonderful raptors.

Regards Cameron.

TMoritz
16-02-2007, 05:45 AM
Cameron,

Just a clarification on my level of Ferrug expertise...I'm not an expert. My response is based on the following:

1. I contacted several American falconers that flew Ferrugs and actually took game with them.

2. I read as much as I could from every published source I could find.

3. I observed the training and progress of three other Ferrugs in my circle of friends.

4. I trained a wild taken, 5 week old female ferrug.

5. I observed the parental behavior of the wild ferrugs at the cliffs, ledges and scrapes of the 6 eyries I visited in Wyoming.

I don't think I stated that my Ferrug was always aggressive, in fact she was a peach most of the time. She was mewed and fed through a chute for a month during the molt and she was VERY aggressive around me during the period she was not manned. She was also possessive of kills which is a common, instinctive trait of ferrugs, but I was able to work through that with good tradeoffs to the lure and not making stupid mistakes. (I called on all my experience and lessons learned with eyass accipiters to think of ways to manage and lose aggression)

So I have no actual real-world experience rearing a tiercel Ferrug but I was impressed by their speed and handling in the wild and I cannot believe a female ferrug is useful and that a male is therefore a piece of ****...that doesn't add up to me.

I'd love to hear of more people working with Ferrugs under THEIR terms of style and flight. I bent my Ferrug to my way of thinking (conditioning the bird to be totally wed to geese) and it ended in lackluster results of 16 geese brought to bag under sorry conditions. The first hare the ferrug ever saw was bound to in a 100 yard flight and it completely illustrated the Ferrug for me.

The ferrug is totally specialized BY DESIGN and bending its design will never make a Ferrug yield bizarre yet positive results. Had I lived in an area with wide open spaces and plenty of hares I'd have caught 10x the quarry (ferrugs choice of quarry, not mine) and had 10x the fun.

Yeoman
16-02-2007, 08:35 AM
Mr Lambert, The question was i Quote- Is the male ferrug useful for hunting.
And the answer is obviously YES. My breeding male was taken cock and hen pheasants on a regular basis when i flew him, so again the answer is yes. As i said in my previous reply it may take longer to get the specific raptor in question to bind to quarry but when it does, words cannont describe the feeling. To have a hawk wait on like a falcon, then stoop and kill the quarry. It is all worth it, in the end.

Tell me, do goshawks hunt in this way?

I am not saying that gosses or RT,HH are not any use. They do what they do.

As regarding hitting yourself with a hammer that does,:) his will go up wait on and often dot out
Regards Cameron.Goshawks can be taught to wait on,i wouldnt do it but no of a man that does :)

SakerYZF
16-02-2007, 09:27 AM
Interesting read, I'm sure as more and more people fly these birds we'll get more insight into better techniques and training/imprinting methods.
perhaps a way to curb some of that aggression, alwasys a reason why:-P

SSL
16-02-2007, 09:30 AM
Mr Lambert, The question was i Quote- Is the male ferrug useful for hunting..

True I dont deny it, but he closes by saying will it catch Pheasant and Partridge regularly, I dont believe it will.

You've made two claims about Ferru's I disagree with... you also offered a chance to see yours fly, I think a day next season on game birds is in order and we'll settle which can fly further and which is more consistant on game birds then.

Not that I ever intended turning this into a versus thread,

SakerYZF
16-02-2007, 09:57 AM
Perhaps a definition of "consistent" is in order, if you mean consistent compared to a Gos then perhaps it’s a little unfair... we go out looking for these pheasant flights.
I’d be impressed by a Gos that would take on a hare and fly it down untill it was caught... 90% of the Gos's I’ve seen flown at hares give up quite easily after a couple of attempts
Goshawks are surprise hunters not open ground long distance athletes , It excels in the right place.. Just like the Furru, it’s unfair to compare these birds or even put them in the same “flight scenario” Because they’re worlds apart.

The Ferru is perfectly honed to do what it does.
Consistent to me anyway means taking quarry where the opportunity presents itself.
I don't doubt for a second that they'd take on a pheasant flight if the opportunity was there.
I would imagine the task of taking one of these birds and getting it to catch game "consistently" takes and incredible amount of time and skill, more than it does to show a Goshawk a pheasant.

SSL
16-02-2007, 10:06 AM
I would imagine the task of taking one of these birds and getting it to catch game "consistently" takes and incredible amount of time and skill, more than it does to show a Goshawk a pheasant.

So you think there is not as much time or skill involved in getting a Goshawk to the point of flying down late season Game, with flights of a 1/4, 1/2 or even full mile? :roll:

Why do these threads always have to go into a versus load of rubbish?

SakerYZF
16-02-2007, 10:29 AM
I didnít say its easy, and of course it takes a lot of skill to get a Goshawk hunting in this way, but the Gos has more than a few factors on its side that makes the task easier.

Iím just saying that to hawk pheasants consistently with a Gos isn't that unusual.... hundreds of us do it all the time.
But to hawk pheasants consistently with a Ferru would really be an achievement worthy of praise because... Yes it would be more a more difficult task to undertake.

It isn't a versus thing , I fly Goshawks and think they're truly amazing , and given the choice of flying one over a Ferru Iíd go Goshawk every time,
But my hat would go off to someone hawking pheasants with a Ferru and getting results.

SSL
16-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Hi Chris,

I think we are singing off the same hymn sheet to be honest.

I'd love to be proved wrong and see a Ferru taking Game birds.

I think the average person getting a Ferru after flying other broadwings, with the sole intention of 'game' hawking would be disspapointed which is why I repied to this thread.

Of course all the Ferru'flyers jumped on my head (not as painful as smacking it with a hammer) for saying this.

I'd love to see their Ferrus take game, and for me to change my opinion on a good hawk for regularly taking game birds.

I agree, a Goshawk is more inclined for off the fist flights a feather and its why its the choice of many who like 'game' hawking from the fist.

Sorry - the versus thing wasnt totally directed at you, its just the way things seem to go, guess I'm just as guilty for mentioning other broadwings in my original reply.

SakerYZF
16-02-2007, 10:45 AM
No worries Steve,
I agree that the sad fact is , that of say of 30 Ferrus taken up with the sole intention of hawking pheasants perhaps 90% of the falconers would give up.

I just didn't want to dismiss it as unviable. And all credit to the 10% that achieve this task, Iíd love to see some flights and
Pics too :-)

Intek Hosting
16-02-2007, 11:02 AM
So you think there is not as much time or skill involved in getting a Goshawk to the point of flying down late season Game, with flights of a 1/4, 1/2 or even full mile? :roll:

Why do these threads always have to go into a versus load of rubbish?

I think the first paragraph of your post kind of answers the second dont you?

SSL
16-02-2007, 11:03 AM
I think the first paragraph of your post kind of answers the second dont you?

No.

So when you gonna show me your game taking Ferru?

Habicht
16-02-2007, 11:05 AM
Good topic,

I used to fly a huge female ferru for display work in Germany and it was the most aggresive bird i've ever seen. It would just crash off into the undergrowth and nail anything. It was especially found of hares, and would catch and kill at least one a week, which was pretty good considering it was only supposed to be flying from t-bars to the fist. I wanted to hunt it after the display season was over but unfortunately never had the opportunity. It also had a nasty habit of trying to bind to my face if i was too near to the crowd, (i had her try to grab me a few times as she flew past) but was as good as gold on our own or as long as i stayed about 30 feet away from anyone. Wierd!

Taowolf
16-02-2007, 11:48 AM
Cameron,

Just a clarification on my level of Ferrug expertise...I'm not an expert. My response is based on the following:

1. I contacted several American falconers that flew Ferrugs and actually took game with them.

2. I read as much as I could from every published source I could find.

3. I observed the training and progress of three other Ferrugs in my circle of friends.

4. I trained a wild taken, 5 week old female ferrug.

5. I observed the parental behavior of the wild ferrugs at the cliffs, ledges and scrapes of the 6 eyries I visited in Wyoming.

I don't think I stated that my Ferrug was always aggressive, in fact she was a peach most of the time. She was mewed and fed through a chute for a month during the molt and she was VERY aggressive around me during the period she was not manned. She was also possessive of kills which is a common, instinctive trait of ferrugs, but I was able to work through that with good tradeoffs to the lure and not making stupid mistakes. (I called on all my experience and lessons learned with eyass accipiters to think of ways to manage and lose aggression)

So I have no actual real-world experience rearing a tiercel Ferrug but I was impressed by their speed and handling in the wild and I cannot believe a female ferrug is useful and that a male is therefore a piece of ****...that doesn't add up to me.

I'd love to hear of more people working with Ferrugs under THEIR terms of style and flight. I bent my Ferrug to my way of thinking (conditioning the bird to be totally wed to geese) and it ended in lackluster results of 16 geese brought to bag under sorry conditions. The first hare the ferrug ever saw was bound to in a 100 yard flight and it completely illustrated the Ferrug for me.

The ferrug is totally specialized BY DESIGN and bending its design will never make a Ferrug yield bizarre yet positive results. Had I lived in an area with wide open spaces and plenty of hares I'd have caught 10x the quarry (ferrugs choice of quarry, not mine) and had 10x the fun.

I may of picked you up wrong Troy. But never the less these birds can be aggressive. But also greatly rewarding. I look forward to talking to you and reading some more of your threads.

Regards Cameron.

Taowolf
16-02-2007, 12:17 PM
Mr lambert, Firstly thank you for replying to myself and a meet would be great i have often wanted to fly a goshawk but never have got round to it. For me this has never been a versus matter. The raptors in question are two different hunters. One is classed as the game hawk and the other as a small eagle. So yes you are right in saying if you want a hawk that will take game birds all day every day then a goshawk is the answer. But if you want a challange then the achievement of taking game a Ferrug is the answer.

The goshawk is like a pedigree show dog its in the breeding. By this i mean goshawks no how to kill gamebirds before they no how to fly.

The Ferruginous is like a Greenland husky, breed and in the blood for one purpose and that is to pull a sled. But given time they can be honed to become rescue dogs etc.

My point is, given time i can and have done. Trained and honed the abilities of the ferrug to catch gamebirds on a regular basis.

I have no quarrels with gohawkers, or wish to. But i do have with people that cant except that things can be done with various raptors. That havent be done before.

To put these two birds agaisnt each other in this manner is stupidity, as a gamehawk the gos is always the clear winner. But the point i make is, a ferrug can and will take game birds.

Hope this has'ent caused to many ripples in the pond of life.

Mr lambert, i would be honoured if you would except my invite to grace our land with your presence and stunning raptor. You can contact me on 07736432322 or 01250883470.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards Cameron.

SSL
16-02-2007, 12:34 PM
Top Banana Cameron,

Will be in touch :cool:

Intek Hosting
16-02-2007, 02:11 PM
No.

So when you gonna show me your game taking Ferru?
Is this meant to be a chat up line or something?

Seriously, the day I feel the need to "show" anyone, anything to do with my birds, is the day I would be best off taking up some other passtime. Its just not why I do things.

SSL
16-02-2007, 06:25 PM
Seriously, the day I feel the need to "show" anyone, anything to do with my birds, is the day I would be best off taking up some other passtime. Its just not why I do things.

Shame, I'd like to see how a Ferru performs in the field.

Looks like Cameron stepped up to the plate anyway so dont worry :goodman:

OutHawkn
21-02-2007, 08:47 PM
i would just like to ask people if the male ferrouginous is worth trying for a hunting bird as on a differant thread a guy was saying that his male had caught rabbits (how many i do not know). but i am interested in this bird and all the books tell me that they are pretty much useless for hunting but i know that these books aren't entirely accurate.I'd rather get a view of someone who has hunting experiance with a male. also i'd just like to know which sex would be better for hunting pheasant and if you can aslo tell me if the ferouginous would be useful for catching pheasant/partridge on a regular basis.

Many years ago when I was in Colorado. I successfully hunted and killed a whole lot of cottontail rabbits. I have only flown two males but both proved very good at rabbits. I twice caught sage grouse with them. (both pure luck)