Semen and Volume?

[Alf]

I have been thinking about this week and to tell you the truth I haven’t even looked it up it’s about the amount of semen that can be given in one shot?
It seems to me a male AK will produce a lot less semen in volume than a mature peregrine if I have a full straw of peregrine semen and I insert or she takes the lot could it be possible to over flow and cause detrimental effects? Alf.

[Rex06]

well i wondered this to
with like perlin's
merlin female, u can not do the full shot of the peregrin male, can u ?

greetzz

[Alf]

Does anyone know? Alf.

well i wondered this to
with like perlin's
merlin female, u can not do the full shot of the peregrin male, can u ?

greetzz

[Peregrine1]

I have been thinking about this week and to tell you the truth I haven’t even looked it up it’s about the amount of semen that can be given in one shot?
It seems to me a male AK will produce a lot less semen in volume than a mature peregrine if I have a full straw of peregrine semen and I insert or she takes the lot could it be possible to over flow and cause detrimental effects? Alf.

I found best results. when putting Peregrine into Merlin little and often (twice a day) as with most things its quality not quanity. One good shot of Peregrine semen can accommodate 4 or so falcons no problems.
Regards
Colin

[Stoaty]

I have never done AI so I may be completely wrong but would not have thought an 'overdose' would do your bird any harm. It's not toxic and surely it means there will be a better chance of a fertilisation. Like I say I may be wrong but if I am I would like to know why. Good look Alf I will be following your progress with great interest and think your idea has great potential.

[Alf]

Collin so when you say little and often it sounds just about right but have you ever over loaded a merlin with the white stuff and has everything turned out peachy?
Just interested! Alf.


I found best results. when putting Peregrine into Merlin little and often (twice a day) as with most things its quality not quanity. One good shot of Peregrine semen can accommodate 4 or so falcons no problems.
Regards
Colin

[Hacker]

I have been thinking about this week and to tell you the truth I haven’t even looked it up it’s about the amount of semen that can be given in one shot?
It seems to me a male AK will produce a lot less semen in volume than a mature peregrine if I have a full straw of peregrine semen and I insert or she takes the lot could it be possible to over flow and cause detrimental effects? Alf.

A bit like an old fridge then:D

[MitchellBrad]

Collin so when you say little and often it sounds just about right but have you ever over loaded a merlin with the white stuff and has everything turned out peachy?
Just interested! Alf.

Alf, I used to have an anatum semen donor who came in quarts. 3 tubes twice a day. I'd AI the Crip once, ie flood her and catch the next 4 eggs. It was back washing, no big deal:D

Brad

[Alf]

Cheers Brad, Just wondering with different semen from that of natural and the amount going in the effects might make a difference. Alf.

Alf, I used to have an anatum semen donor who came in quarts. 3 tubes twice a day. I'd AI the Crip once, ie flood her and catch the next 4 eggs. It was back washing, no big deal:D

Brad

[Kentish Falconry]

Cheers Brad, Just wondering with different semen from that of natural and the amount going in the effects might make a difference. Alf.

Alf you have PM

[Peregrine1]

Collin so when you say little and often it sounds just about right but have you ever over loaded a merlin with the white stuff and has everything turned out peachy?
Just interested! Alf.

Hello Alf,
my Merlin's stand very well. Infact one stand's to well in the scrape, and goes in a complete trance all well and good but forgets to draw. I manged to solve this problem with a bit of thought and a few experiments. Now my own thoughts on producing hybrids is that when Peregrine semen is put into a Merlin I think the Merlins defence system might attack this and treat it as a foreign body, I know in general a falcon imune system is slightly lower during copulation to inable the safe passage of semen to the oviduct, but I think its only lowered enough to tolerate its own species. So this is what I try and do when the merlin is standing and drawing well she literally gets the dregs just dribbles of semen. Hopefully she then lay's an egg in the not to distant future I try to inseminate her again not long after the egg is laided with a small shot of quality semen. I then know roughly she works on a 48hr cycle so she gets no semen again, (though I keep the routine of mock copulating with her) until about 4 hrs before she's due to lay then she gets a small shot. When she's laided the egg she gets another small shot within a few hours of the egg being laided, this system means semen only stored a short while before hopefully it fertilizer's the ovum. This system as worked well for me I feel real happy if I get one good insemination in before or after the egg I can do this with out getting up in the middle of the night and ruining my beauty sleep :) . Now the reason I do this "I think" if you stuff a standing falcon with semen (production of Hybrids only) at times where its going to sit around for a day or so in readiness for fertilizing the ovum maybe being weakened by the falcons own imune system, also the semem has to cope with the same it somewhere it would not normally be. So you could end up with a falcon full of dead and dying semen. To then put fresh and good semen in to find no room as her storing capacity is taken, and its lost in the clocea. When I am breeding pure species they get semen anytime through their cycle, but still I don't go berserk with the semen quanity. The only falcon I had that throws a spanner in the works is the Prairie she seems to hold Peregrine semen well and one insemination has caught several eggs???
Now I only have a few falcons so the big breeder's will have load's more experience. And may have very different findings to mine. I am not saying what I have wrote is right but for me it works. Please take it easy on me this took a age to type with my fat finger:(
Regards
Colin

[Sprout]

when Peregrine semen is put into a Merlin I think the Merlins defence system might attack this and treat it as a foreign body, I know in general a falcon imune system is slightly lower during copulation to inable the safe passage of semen to the oviduct, but I think its only lowered enough to tolerate its own species.

Sperm is seen as foreign even in the male of the species that produced it. A minor complication when castrating cats/dogs occurs if the tunic surrounding the testicle is cut and sperm released into the surrounding tissues a massive inflammatory response is elicited as the body attacks the foreign tissue. But you are right about the depression in immunity at this time - oestrogen does have an immunosuppressive and myelosuppressive action (which is why Jills suffer if not brought out of season), at least it is in mammals - allows inplantation of the devloping foetus. Not 100% sure with birds as no implantation occurs.

[Alf]

Collin if you’re producing the goods mate then it works for you. Always interested in any ideas info from anyone who is successful at what they do. Cheers mate enjoyed that! Alf.

Hello Alf,
my Merlin's stand very well. Infact one stand's to well in the scrape, and goes in a complete trance all well and good but forgets to draw. I manged to solve this problem with a bit of thought and a few experiments. Now my own thoughts on producing hybrids is that when Peregrine semen is put into a Merlin I think the Merlins defence system might attack this and treat it as a foreign body, I know in general a falcon imune system is slightly lower during copulation to inable the safe passage of semen to the oviduct, but I think its only lowered enough to tolerate its own species. So this is what I try and do when the merlin is standing and drawing well she literally gets the dregs just dribbles of semen. Hopefully she then lay's an egg in the not to distant future I try to inseminate her again not long after the egg is laided with a small shot of quality semen. I then know roughly she works on a 48hr cycle so she gets no semen again, (though I keep the routine of mock copulating with her) until about 4 hrs before she's due to lay then she gets a small shot. When she's laided the egg she gets another small shot within a few hours of the egg being laided, this system means semen only stored a short while before hopefully it fertilizer's the ovum. This system as worked well for me I feel real happy if I get one good insemination in before or after the egg I can do this with out getting up in the middle of the night and ruining my beauty sleep :) . Now the reason I do this "I think" if you stuff a standing falcon with semen (production of Hybrids only) at times where its going to sit around for a day or so in readiness for fertilizing the ovum maybe being weakened by the falcons own imune system, also the semem has to cope with the same it somewhere it would not normally be. So you could end up with a falcon full of dead and dying semen. To then put fresh and good semen in to find no room as her storing capacity is taken, and its lost in the clocea. When I am breeding pure species they get semen anytime through their cycle, but still I don't go berserk with the semen quanity. The only falcon I had that throws a spanner in the works is the Prairie she seems to hold Peregrine semen well and one insemination has caught several eggs???
Now I only have a few falcons so the big breeder's will have load's more experience. And may have very different findings to mine. I am not saying what I have wrote is right but for me it works. Please take it easy on me this took a age to type with my fat finger:(
Regards
Colin

[HorseBox]

I have been thinking about this week and to tell you the truth I haven’t even looked it up it’s about the amount of semen that can be given in one shot?
It seems to me a male AK will produce a lot less semen in volume than a mature peregrine if I have a full straw of peregrine semen and I insert or she takes the lot could it be possible to over flow and cause detrimental effects? Alf.I been in several breeding projects but not with bop i have never heard of two much seamen corsing a problem birds copulate very frequently not only that we have separated birds for couple of weeks and when eggs were laid put them under other pairs and they still hatched with hybrid's if semen was such a foreign body i dont think it would fertilise the egg
but as i say i have not bread bop

[Rex06]

is it possible that a falcon can die because she can't lay ? (not isiminated) cause she stand in the nestbox but she doesn't lay?

well my merlin imprint is standing to for me now, and the tiercel doesn't want to deposit on the head or foot, and if i put them togheter , than the moult goes quicker (they fight) and also the male is still very young, and the female is mature now. so i was thinkin of a perlin letting someone come for the insimination? i just have to call and he will show it once to me and borrow the materiaals.

but i still have questions about the timing cause he doesn't know the timing with a merlin to insiminate ? (he only does 1 of his own gyr and has learned this by himself and with litlle info)
the first insimination is lost, but she lays an egg, in the hours after the first egg insiminate again ? am i right ?

greetzz

[HorseBox]

is it possible that a falcon can die because she can't lay ? (not isiminated) cause she stand in the nestbox but she doesn't lay?

well my merlin imprint is standing to for me now, and the tiercel doesn't want to deposit on the head or foot, and if i put them togheter , than the moult goes quicker (they fight) and also the male is still very young, and the female is mature now. so i was thinkin of a perlin letting someone come for the insimination? i just have to call and he will show it once to me and borrow the materiaals.

but i still have questions about the timing cause he doesn't know the timing with a merlin to insiminate ? (he only does 1 of his own gyr and has learned this by himself and with litlle info)
the first insimination is lost, but she lays an egg, in the hours after the first egg insiminate again ? am i right ?

greetzzFrom what i have gleaned all though there is far moor knowable than me on this forum the female should tell you when she is ready for insemination if you cannot tell from her actions seek help you may not be doing you or your bird any favors

[Peregrine1]

When you say she's standing, is she pumping and drawing like the linked video clip?
http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/falconquester/?action=view&current=backyardbreeder.flv

[Alf]

Peter can you not download http://www.peregrinefund.org/pdfs/Re...ion_manual.pdf it will give you guidelines mate. Alf

is it possible that a falcon can die because she can't lay ? (not isiminated) cause she stand in the nestbox but she doesn't lay?

well my merlin imprint is standing to for me now, and the tiercel doesn't want to deposit on the head or foot, and if i put them togheter , than the moult goes quicker (they fight) and also the male is still very young, and the female is mature now. so i was thinkin of a perlin letting someone come for the insimination? i just have to call and he will show it once to me and borrow the materiaals.

but i still have questions about the timing cause he doesn't know the timing with a merlin to insiminate ? (he only does 1 of his own gyr and has learned this by himself and with litlle info)
the first insimination is lost, but she lays an egg, in the hours after the first egg insiminate again ? am i right ?

greetzz

[Rex06]

yep she does it like in the link

but i am not planning to insiminate here myself direcly ,
there is someone who will/can help me with this but i won't have contact with him untill next week so thats the problem

[Peregrine1]

yep she does it like in the link

but i am not planning to insiminate here myself direcly ,
there is someone who will/can help me with this but i won't have contact with him untill next week so thats the problem

Can't you get semen and inseminate her you're self ? if she drawing like that she can't be far off laying. Plus she might not stand for a stranger. I know mine would'nt she strap herself to his head :)
Regards
Colin

[Alf]

Collin it’s the first time today and I must be getting close that this EK hasn’t strapped itself to my head. Every day better and better:yawinkle:

Can't you get semen and inseminate her you're self ? if she drawing like that she can't be far off laying. Plus she might not stand for a stranger. I know mine would'nt she strap herself to his head :)
Regards
Colin

[Rex06]

i have heard alot of people buyen semen from someone else.
but how do you transport semen ?
how the hell can you keep it longer than a day ?
and howlong can u keep it in wich condition ?

friendly greetzz
all weird this :)

[HorseBox]

i have heard alot of people buyen semen from someone else.
but how do you transport semen ?
how the hell can you keep it longer than a day ?
and howlong can u keep it in wich condition ?

friendly greetzz
all weird this :)i dont know about bop but with horses fresh 24hours chilled 48 hours frozen years it should be same for eney type of semen with bop just on a smaller scale for freezing they usually do a test batch to make sure that the quality is good after defrost they some times advertise semen for sale i am sure if you ask they will in form you depending on witch option you use depends on conception rates fresh best frozen least

[Rex06]

that sounds incredible , freezing semen, it is dead than, not ?
or will it coem back to life s bacteries do ? when it defrosts ?

greetzzz

[Alf]

Very limited success has been achieved with freezing hawk semen even for a short time. Alf

that sounds incredible , freezing semen, it is dead than, not ?
or will it coem back to life s bacteries do ? when it defrosts ?

greetzzz

[HorseBox]

Very limited success has been achieved with freezing hawk semen even for a short time. AlfTHERE were low conception rates with horse and human seamen to start with but rates have increased to about 60% and getting better so if time is put in to freezing teknekes also you have to realize that how you defrost is as important as the freeze so with a bit of experiment results from results from bop semen should improve
each bop semen is different not all will be right to freeze so you would have to try several different birds before you may find one suitable for freezing

[Rex06]

doe sit all depend on the temperature u freeze it? like -10 or -30
and to defrost it ? does this also depend on the temperature u defrost it in ?
big woow to people who have succes with this

greetzz

[HorseBox]

doe sit all depend on the temperature u freeze it? like -10 or -30
and to defrost it ? does this also depend on the temperature u defrost it in ?
big woow to people who have succes with this

greetzz
YES the speed and tep at witch seamen is frozen and unfrozen is critical