The fear of malimprinting

[Pitbull]

Where or how did you learn how too imprint a specific species, without the fear of malimprinting

[Jack]

Man, you got a problem if you want to find something on that subject. Well, nothing is really out there that is going to help you. Most people will do the exact same things, over and over, expecting different results each time. But the fact is, they don't.
If you are planning to raise a hawk and imprint it, just feed it until it is old enough to feed itself, or take it from the next or breeder at 2 weeks old. At that age all you have to do is place food in a saucer for it. Stay close as it eats and never make any motions that can be construed as attempting to rob. And never let it get hungry untill well after it hard pins. And never make it kill anything until it decides it wants to on it's own. If you do you have to make it hungry or cut the weight prematurely and this causes a hard screamer. Just have large amounts of food available so that the hawk never feels real hunger until well past hard pinning and you should be fine. The young hawk will suddenly start acting wild as hell, and that is when you drop the weight on it. Do it as fast as you can so that the bird is not sitting hungry for long periods of time. If it is not afraid of you robbing and if it is not allowed to get hungry and stay that way for long periods of time it will not mantle or scream on you. That is the 2 main uglies that an imprint does.

Jack

[OutHawkn]

Man, you got a problem if you want to find something on that subject. Well, nothing is really out there that is going to help you. Most people will do the exact same things, over and over, expecting different results each time. But the fact is, they don't.
If you are planning to raise a hawk and imprint it, just feed it until it is old enough to feed itself, or take it from the next or breeder at 2 weeks old. At that age all you have to do is place food in a saucer for it. Stay close as it eats and never make any motions that can be construed as attempting to rob. And never let it get hungry untill well after it hard pins. And never make it kill anything until it decides it wants to on it's own. If you do you have to make it hungry or cut the weight prematurely and this causes a hard screamer. Just have large amounts of food available so that the hawk never feels real hunger until well past hard pinning and you should be fine. The young hawk will suddenly start acting wild as hell, and that is when you drop the weight on it. Do it as fast as you can so that the bird is not sitting hungry for long periods of time. If it is not afraid of you robbing and if it is not allowed to get hungry and stay that way for long periods of time it will not mantle or scream on you. That is the 2 main uglies that an imprint does.

Jack

I totally disagree. Never drop the food fast. Slow and easy.

[Pitbull]

No Im no where near the point where I could or even should attempt imprinting. I have alot to learn about parent reared before I go down that route.
It was just a question in general. I have never seen books or anything. I suppose if your honest with yourself you will know when your ready, yes ? no?

[Intek Hosting]

Not too long ago I read a post on getting a hawk on another forum and the guy was told, "Its not like having a baby where you can just make it up as you go along, You need professional training before you get a hawk!!

Personally I didnt manage to work out if the guy giving the advice has either never considered what having a baby would involve or he was selling "professional" training.

I must admit I didnt have time to worry about getting it right or wrong when I did my imprint, I got a call on the Thursday morning to say the bird was available and I should come and collect it NOW!!
Picked it up, didnt have a clue what I was going to do with it!!

The single most important thing I learned was, "Dont take advice from someone unless they actually "know" about imprinting birds.
You will get someone tell you that youre not feeding enough one day, and the following day tell you youre feeding it too much and its going to break its legs when it starts standing up :rolleyes:
Or you'll be told to feed it with your hands in the morning and put the food in a bowl in the afternoon if you dont want it to "fully" imprint on you:rolleyes:

Every step of the way, I had Karl (Game & Pursuit Falcon UK) to run my questions by, to listen to my ideas and worries about the bird casting and will it break its legs and am I hooding it often enough or is it getting the right foods, is it a male or female??

The big things I learned were, make sure the bird has food ALL the time. When it goes to sleep, change the bowls and throw the old food away if it hasnt eaten it yet.
The bird will associate the bowl with food so dont let it see you handling the bowl, full or empty. (half the creativity of imprinting went into finding ways of getting the bowl in and out unseen or unnoticed.)
The big thing was not to create a routine!! Sometimes I would be around when he was eating other times not. Some times I would hood him or wait until he was asleep before changing the bowl, other times I would put the bowl somewhere in the house and take him to it, but always done so that the bird "finds" the food on its own.

If you must feed the bird by hand (when they are very small) place the bird, facing away from you and then place the bowl so its in front of the bird. Now feed it so that its looking at the bowl and the food comes out of the bowl and is held for the bird. As soon as it will eat on its own let it do so.
I got a lot of advice about getting the bird to start tearing at food early on. None of it worked because the bird just swallowed larger food items whole or didnt eat them until much older.

The one thing that caused me a lot of anxiety was feeding the youngster before it had cast its pellet from the day before. At first I was worried about sour crop and impacted crops etc etc, but I soon found the bird takes care of that itself. If its hungry it will eat, when its ready to cast it will do so and then pick any undigested bits out and eat them again. I worried his casts would get too big to bring up, (it was eating up to 8 rats of 14 chicks a day!!) but it just broke the casts up into pieces it could bring up.

All in all the difficult part was always coming up with a new way of doing the feeding routine, which changed considerably as the bird grew, spent less time sleeping and started actively getting about.
There are things you can achieve with an imprint if you start them early enough. Mwagi was NEVER allowed to sit on the floor, used all manner of items to keep him off the floor and the result wasby 6 weeks old he could stand on a bow perch and now as a fully grown bird he chooses a perch to stand on rather than sitting on the floor.

Single most important bit of advice on imprints, find someone who really understands imprints and then go to them for advice and second check every bit of advice you get from anyone else with that person before you try the idea on your bird. Some people have some "interesting" ideas on imprints!!!

[Redeye]

Man, you got a problem if you want to find something on that subject. Well, nothing is really out there that is going to help you. Most people will do the exact same things, over and over, expecting different results each time. But the fact is, they don't.
If you are planning to raise a hawk and imprint it, just feed it until it is old enough to feed itself, or take it from the next or breeder at 2 weeks old. At that age all you have to do is place food in a saucer for it. Stay close as it eats and never make any motions that can be construed as attempting to rob. And never let it get hungry untill well after it hard pins. And never make it kill anything until it decides it wants to on it's own. If you do you have to make it hungry or cut the weight prematurely and this causes a hard screamer. Just have large amounts of food available so that the hawk never feels real hunger until well past hard pinning and you should be fine. The young hawk will suddenly start acting wild as hell, and that is when you drop the weight on it. Do it as fast as you can so that the bird is not sitting hungry for long periods of time. If it is not afraid of you robbing and if it is not allowed to get hungry and stay that way for long periods of time it will not mantle or scream on you. That is the 2 main uglies that an imprint does.

Jack

I have not tried your method but I can't see the point in letting an imprint be so fat as to have it turn wild.

The one and only imprint that I have done had a very minor weight reduction done at the branching stage in so much as one night he did not have food available. Next morning outside and given as much as he wanted off the lure. Then no food till evening and then as much as he wanted off the lure. After that he had to fly/ flap/ hop to get to the lure which was offered twice a day. This continued until he was able to go kill something, at hard penning.

Ivan

[Hardcore Hawker]

I believe Jack may have been describing the penning stage when they do go a bit doo lally as they absorb the blood and nutrients from the hardening feathers this is i believe the stage to start weight reduction.

[Redeye]

I believe Jack may have been describing the penning stage when they do go a bit doo lally as they absorb the blood and nutrients from the hardening feathers this is i believe the stage to start weight reduction.


didn't sound like it to me, i didn't have a doo lally stage, was expecting one from reading mcdermotts book though.

Ivan

And never let it get hungry untill well after it hard pins. And never make it kill anything until it decides it wants to on it's own.
Jack

[OutHawkn]

Another point I'd like to make. Is it a hawk or Falcon? I have imprinted a few goshawks but used "The Recipe" to do it and it turned out perfect. But I am a falcon man. Over the years thats about all I fly and I prefer imprints as long as I'm the one doing it.
So, Do yourself a favor and find someone in person or on the IFF that does what you want to do. And follow ther advice. After you have trained a couple then experiment with your own way.

[Hardcore Hawker]

Ivan did you drop its weight at the penning stage at all either intentionally or did its appetite naturally lessen during this period? I am looking for as much info as i can as i am imprinting my first gos this year i have read McDermotts book but that is still only one mans opinion although many have followed the writeings of the author

[Redeye]

Ivan did you drop its weight at the penning stage at all either intentionally or did its appetite naturally lessen during this period? I am looking for as much info as i can as i am imprinting my first gos this year i have read McDermotts book but that is still only one mans opinion although many have followed the writeings of the author

Steve,

I'm sorry but the records I have are pretty patchy. I certainly continued to drop his weight back after penning but the inital reduction was during the penning process when he had to fly, hop skip jump to his lure twice a day. He was hunting initially at 1lb 11 3/4oz and weighed about 1lb 14oz at day 27 so there was a significant reduction. Unfortuantely can't identify exactly over what period of time. My gripe with Jacks post was letting it get as fat as it likes before cutting him back after penning which makes no sense to me.

atb

Ivan

[Hardcore Hawker]

Agreed Ivan having read the post again it did refure to the bird having 24 Hr food availability and as much as it can eat which i also find pretty pointless as pointless in fact as over feeding moulting birds i like mine to hit the food as soon as i put it in the aviary they then eat it in its entireity no waste. Back to imprints in the wild the parents would be restricting the food intake of the youngsters at the penning stage or just prior to to encourage movement away from the nest to feed and to help them on thier way to being indipendant so this would mirror what you hope to acheive with the imprint ( coming further to the lure each day ) then i suppose you iron out the behaviour with weight control coupled with plenty of hunting at young quarry. It sounds real easy doesnt it. Also when all is going well in the field and you want to acheive a desired weight gain what behaviour will manifest itself first when the bird reaches its ceiling in respect to its proper hunting weight and at roughly what age would you advise this is going to be at providing it has had daily hunting in the field.

[GyrXPeales]

Imprinting is not rocket science, really it's pretty straight forward. I do agree that you need to have food available at all times, there is some waste with this method, but who cares. I started using two imprint pens a long time ago. That way when it's time to feed, you just load the food in the clean pen while in another room, and transfer the bird to the clean pen with the food supply already in place. Then take the dirty pen out and clean it, and just repeat the process.
You can't really compare the feather growth of an eyass with a moulting bird. The moulting bird is not growing all of it's feathers all at once. This takes a lot of energy and produces a lot of heat as a by product. Trying to find creative ways of keeping the bird cool can be an interesting process, keeping them warm enough is rarely a problem after about 21 days or so.
At least for the falcons I introduce the lure early on, really as soon as they start hopping around and pouncing on stuff. I drag it around and let them kill it over and over again. It's a toy to them, I'll add food shortly before their first flight which for a falcon is always to the lure for me. The food is a bonus for them not the reason they come to the lure. Get in there and play with them, lay on the floor hand the lure to them, and take it from them, and give it back again. Chup to them while you are doing it, have fun with it. Although I've been made fun of, I do the same with light objects like socks and paper balls. They don't care when they are fat babies, all they want to do is play, they have no idea that what you are doing with them is really anti carrying training. If you can get a raptor to give up a sock without trying to carry you can sure as hell get it to step of a kill in the field. It's all about play time, but it's play time with a purpose. Everything you do should be done with a particular end in mind.
As for weight loss at penning the birds start to eat less on their own in preparation for flight. With a longwing you just keep them fat and go on about your business for most or all of the first season. My birds weight after a couple of weeks of flying is usually higher than their hard penned weight. I usually start to drop weight on mine toward the end of the first season. I usually do a gradual weight loss until I start to notice a change in their hunting style, but stop before the screaming starts, you'll know when you've reached the tipping point.
At least with longwings, imprinting is all about having fun. You are allowed in to the birds life on many different levels. First you are a sidling/nest mate or playmate. When tame hack or flying begins you become more like the parent. Later on you are treated more like a mate. But whatever stage you are in the fun should never stop. I don't know if you get a better hunting bird from imprinting, I personally think you do, but at least for me, you sure as heck have a lot more fun. Imprinting is about relationship first, the rest comes in it's own time, and it does usually take a bit longer to get a quality hunting bird as Brad says their brains usually arrive in their second season.:lol: Imprinting is a mind game, so just make sure you're up for it, and have time for it. If you're working an 8-5 shift and can't take your bird with you to work, it's probably better to stick with a PR.
These are just my thoughts, everyone seems to have a slightly different method. Just find someone who is good at imprinting that will take the time to help you through the first one, you'll develop your own style in time.
ATB,
Jeff

[Intek Hosting]

Firstly thank you GyrxPeales for a very entertaining and informative read. Reminded me of when I was rearing Mwagi in a lot of places.

I remember Karl saying on the first day I took my imprint to his place "That's the end of any work from you for the next 2 months!"
I laughed at the time, but by the time he was hard penned I had come to realise he was right.
I had done the best I could to keep up with work, but when I started adding up the time I was spending with him it was nearing 8 - 10 hours a day.
I took him everywhere I went and since I had a particular aim in mind (a ferrug that doesnt sit on the ground) I lost count of how many times I picked him up off the floor and put him back onto whatever was suitable as a perch at the time.
I do remember taking 5 hours to type a short e-mail to a customer because he kept jumping off the upturned fish pond onto the grass and I had to keep going and putting him back where I wanted him.
In the end it payed off as he does choose to sit on something rather than on the floor. Probably not a great achievement but I think it was realistic objective for my first imprint.
I was amazed at how much he slept, and would wake up and start looking for food straight away.
Also he was growing all the time. I can honestly say between weeks 4 and 8 he never looked the same twice. Hoods that were too big and fell off the night before would be too small in the morning.
And there was the day his head turned into an adult bird's. He had grown out most of his feathers, except his head was still covered in his second down layer. Then at about 7 and a half weeks, he went for a bath and when he dried the adult feathers showed through.
I loved watching him discover his feet and the fact he could make them move :-), independantly of each other. (Cant say I enjoyed it when he learned what they were really for:-))
I can really relate to playing with the bird. I know people say hawks arent pets and I agree to an extent, but there were so many learning experiences he went through by simply playing around with me or others (he learned he cant swallow a hand by trying on Karl's hand one night. I think he managed a thumb and two fingers :-)
All round I found imprinting a bird one of the most enjoyable and rewarding things I've ever done.
I've hand reared parrots, but by the very nature of their food and altrical development they become food imprints which does my head in.
Imprinting a raptor, was a very close relationship with the bird, without producing that annoying food dependance you get with parrots (or hawks if you do it wrong :-))

[Altai]

A lot of good advice. I am not sure about the bit about dropping the weight.
By the time the bird is on one feed a day it will be hungry enough at lesson/meal time. Aviary birds and wild birds feed all day and even at night from stored food. So a young imprint given just one big meal per day, with no snacking, will get hungry.

As importent as food is human contact and exposure to every possible sight and sound. An imprint that spends all day, every day with you will want to be with you. This is important for future breeders. Also if the bird can travel around with you all the time and see as much as possible that will be to the good. The guys working the tips have an advantage. They can be with the bird all day. Take it out in the car every day. Let it watch machines and birds at the tip, and farm animals beyond. This is all done as soon as the bird can regulate its own temperature, about 12 days for a falcon. Beware however an eyass can overheat quickly when the sun shines through a car window, or chill when young if left in a cold draft/breeze. Spend as much time as possible watching your bird, it will teach you a lot.

The human contact/exposure to stimuli bit is for life, many potentially good imprints are ruined by owners thinking they can ease off at some piont.

[GyrXPeales]

Outstanding post Evan. You went about it the right way, you had someone close a hand that understands the imprint process. You also found out that producing a bird for AI is not the only reason to imprint.
You had a plan when you went into it, and you carried out that plan. What you've learned will serve you very well indeed in the future.
And I agree they are not pets, but their playtime is important. Like all young animals or people they learn through play, all that jumping and flapping and footing and shredding is not just fun and games it's preparation for life.
You just found out that you can use that playtime to shape and mold a bird into what you want.
Having said all of that, there is a bond that grows that really is something special and quite enjoyable.
Well done Evan, by Jove me thinks you got it.:lol:
Best Regards,
Jeff

[Jack]

It is all in what you are willing to except. Personally, I think I flew passage hawks for too long. I can not abide a screaming, mantling hawk of any kind. To many people are willing to except these things in exchange for tameness. The Recipe is a recipe for screaming and mantling delux. I have no use for it. I have developed my own methods and am happy with the results. This is a recipe for a perfectly behaved hawk. Never let it experience hunger until well after hard pinning. Feed it ad lib. Or as it wants. Just keep food available. The hawk will not over eat. In fact, it eats far less this way. It will indeed have a period when it will suddenly act like it does not know you. It will also require that you drop the hawks weight if you intend to work with it in a serious manner. And when you drop weight, Taking a long time to do it is just asking for a screamer. The longer the hawk sits hungry, the more likely it is to develop into a screamer. Drop it fast and get it done. That way you can go back to feeding the hawk a decent feed on good quality meat. Screamers do not just happen. Screamers are made by our bad handling. I have flown mostly passage hawks all my falconry life up until just about the past 10 or so years. The very first thing I noticed about imprints is that they have a serious tendency toward screaming and mantling. These are habits that I simply can not abide. It is ugly. And my little male goshawk does not scream or mantle. He is silent and stands tall as he feeds. He is not aggressive toward me either. Never has shown a tendency toward aggression.

Jack

[Redeye]

It is all in what you are willing to except. Personally, I think I flew passage hawks for too long. I can not abide a screaming, mantling hawk of any kind. To many people are willing to except these things in exchange for tameness. The Recipe is a recipe for screaming and mantling delux. I have no use for it. I have developed my own methods and am happy with the results. This is a recipe for a perfectly behaved hawk. Never let it experience hunger until well after hard pinning. Feed it ad lib. Or as it wants. Just keep food available. The hawk will not over eat. In fact, it eats far less this way. It will indeed have a period when it will suddenly act like it does not know you. It will also require that you drop the hawks weight if you intend to work with it in a serious manner. And when you drop weight, Taking a long time to do it is just asking for a screamer. The longer the hawk sits hungry, the more likely it is to develop into a screamer. Drop it fast and get it done. That way you can go back to feeding the hawk a decent feed on good quality meat. Screamers do not just happen. Screamers are made by our bad handling. I have flown mostly passage hawks all my falconry life up until just about the past 10 or so years. The very first thing I noticed about imprints is that they have a serious tendency toward screaming and mantling. These are habits that I simply can not abide. It is ugly. And my little male goshawk does not scream or mantle. He is silent and stands tall as he feeds. He is not aggressive toward me either. Never has shown a tendency toward aggression.

Jack


Must be a different male gos that I read about elsewhere.


My latest male gos is doing really well, but he hit a plateau in his weight and I have to cut his ration drastically to get it off him. It is still too warm here. Anyway, in doing so, he is starting to get vocal. Today he was really calling out to me. I think he is going to be ok, but I have to keep taking his attention away from his hunger. It eats up most of a day just dealing with it. I have decided that he is going to scream no matter what, so I am just going to quite feeding him until he loses that weight. Once he is at weight I can start feeding him again. If I give him anything at all he simply stops losing and I will never get him there unless I get ruthless with him. This one is the only one that actually screamed for food. The rest were screamers just for the sake of it. Fat and full, in their sleep, any time I got close to them. The only thing that stopped them was cutting the weight.

Jack

[Intek Hosting]

No Im no where near the point where I could or even should attempt imprinting.
Only you could answer this question for yourself, but I'd have to say going on the fact youre asking the right questions and actively looking for as many answers as you can get, tells me you may very well be a lot closer than you give yourself credit for.

If you have a dream to do something, get out there and do it. So long as you have the determination to get it right you will learn what you need to know to do it right.
We're expecting a baby in June and my wife is terrified we wont know what to do. Me, I think its great, 9 whole months to prepare for the thing's arrival and along the way everyone is telling you what to expect.
I'm still not going to have the slightest clue what to do when it does arrives but at least she's read the books :-)

[GyrXPeales]

It is all in what you are willing to except. Personally, I think I flew passage hawks for too long. I can not abide a screaming, mantling hawk of any kind. To many people are willing to except these things in exchange for tameness. The Recipe is a recipe for screaming and mantling delux. I have no use for it. I have developed my own methods and am happy with the results. This is a recipe for a perfectly behaved hawk. Never let it experience hunger until well after hard pinning. Feed it ad lib. Or as it wants. Just keep food available. The hawk will not over eat. In fact, it eats far less this way. It will indeed have a period when it will suddenly act like it does not know you. It will also require that you drop the hawks weight if you intend to work with it in a serious manner. And when you drop weight, Taking a long time to do it is just asking for a screamer. The longer the hawk sits hungry, the more likely it is to develop into a screamer. Drop it fast and get it done. That way you can go back to feeding the hawk a decent feed on good quality meat. Screamers do not just happen. Screamers are made by our bad handling. I have flown mostly passage hawks all my falconry life up until just about the past 10 or so years. The very first thing I noticed about imprints is that they have a serious tendency toward screaming and mantling. These are habits that I simply can not abide. It is ugly. And my little male goshawk does not scream or mantle. He is silent and stands tall as he feeds. He is not aggressive toward me either. Never has shown a tendency toward aggression.

Jack

Jack, there are a bunch of people out there who imprint silent, well mannered birds. Heck my daughters first bird was an imprint female AK, she imprinted it herself. She's quiet as a church mouse, Kestrels are known for being vocal. Her little bird killed a truck load of starlings it's first year and has impeccable manners in the field and at home.
Just about everyone I know imprints a little differently, the experienced imprinters consistently turn out birds with wonderful manners.
Even the recipe works if you follow it exactly, but most people pick and choose the parts they like, leave out the rest and say it doesn't work.
Leave some room for other peoples, efforts and ideas. There are a lot of great imprinters of hunting birds out there Jack, maybe I'm just lucky to know quite a few of them. I agree with much of what you've said but the world is much bigger than you think when it comes to this subject, you just have to leave room for the rest.
Best Regards,
Jeff

[Pitbull]

when people talk about doing work with them, after hard penned, is this the manning stage that you are on about:?:

[Jack]

This is exactly where I learned not to take your time in dropping the weight. The plateau is where you have to chance seeing a screamer. After dropping the weight on down quickly and being ruthless about it I was able to start feeding him again. You can feed a hawk very little in our heat and it will not lose weight. If you feed it at all it will not lose weight. You have to just cut off the food completely. It is when they sit and hunger that they develop the tendency to scream, and I have seen hawks that screamed even on a full crop simply because it became an obsession with them. I have seen a lot of imprinted birds, and I have 2 right now. The falcon is a hard screamer. In fact, I have only seen a few imprints in my life that were not screamers. I have had a bunch that I personally did not imprint, and they were maddening. I know that there are a few out there that do not scream, but they were not raised in the usual manner. And the chance of that happening is way too high to suit me. If an imprint screams it will not hare lip me. I just do not hawk with these people.
When trying to slowly lower the hawks weight you can use different stratagies to hold the hawks attention away from screaming if you are on top of it, but it requires constant vigilance. And when you hit that plateau you are dead in the water until you come up with something else that works. Such as simply stop feeding the bird and let it lose the weight as quickly as possible and get him back to eating. The proof is in the fact that my hawk is completely silent now. Not a sound from him. My falcon, imprinted by another falconer, will scream even with a full crop of food.
On several occasions I have had friends insist on having their hawks feed once a day or even to kill small birds on their own, but this requires the young hawk to be hungry, and I have to say that each and every one of them were or are still screamers. It is just not worth it. And a hawk that is hard pinned is not the same as the hawk that is still in the blood. They go through a change and once they do they are far less likely to pick up the screaming habit. Sort of like a passage hawk. I have probably trained more passage hawks than most people in this country and I have never seen one that would scream for food or otherwise. So this is why I will not cut the hawks feed at all until it is hard pinned. It is so much safer.

Jack

[Jack]

By working with them, I am refering to a lot of things. You have to handle the hawk. It has to get used to the fist and learn how to balance and negociate your movements. Especially if you are working with a young hawk that is just hard pinning. They go from a fat eyass to an overweight adult in a short few weeks. There is a difference between the 2. A fat adult or sub adult tends to be a bit difficult to manage at times. Bating and trying to leave the fist and such. Mine would not pay attention to me, but would look into the distance and appear to want to fly away from things he grew up around. Once the weight was right he was himself again. Learning how to take the perch and how to take the gloved fist. Things like that. The more you handle the hawk, the better it will be in the field with you. They have to learn too.

Jack

[OutHawkn]

This is exactly where I learned not to take your time in dropping the weight. The plateau is where you have to chance seeing a screamer. After dropping the weight on down quickly and being ruthless about it I was able to start feeding him again. You can feed a hawk very little in our heat and it will not lose weight. If you feed it at all it will not lose weight. You have to just cut off the food completely. It is when they sit and hunger that they develop the tendency to scream, and I have seen hawks that screamed even on a full crop simply because it became an obsession with them. I have seen a lot of imprinted birds, and I have 2 right now. The falcon is a hard screamer. In fact, I have only seen a few imprints in my life that were not screamers. I have had a bunch that I personally did not imprint, and they were maddening. I know that there are a few out there that do not scream, but they were not raised in the usual manner. And the chance of that happening is way too high to suit me. If an imprint screams it will not hare lip me. I just do not hawk with these people.
When trying to slowly lower the hawks weight you can use different stratagies to hold the hawks attention away from screaming if you are on top of it, but it requires constant vigilance. And when you hit that plateau you are dead in the water until you come up with something else that works. Such as simply stop feeding the bird and let it lose the weight as quickly as possible and get him back to eating. The proof is in the fact that my hawk is completely silent now. Not a sound from him. My falcon, imprinted by another falconer, will scream even with a full crop of food.
On several occasions I have had friends insist on having their hawks feed once a day or even to kill small birds on their own, but this requires the young hawk to be hungry, and I have to say that each and every one of them were or are still screamers. It is just not worth it. And a hawk that is hard pinned is not the same as the hawk that is still in the blood. They go through a change and once they do they are far less likely to pick up the screaming habit. Sort of like a passage hawk. I have probably trained more passage hawks than most people in this country and I have never seen one that would scream for food or otherwise. So this is why I will not cut the hawks feed at all until it is hard pinned. It is so much safer.

Jack

I just have to ask. How many passage hawks?

[Pitbull]

What do the gos lads think too, the Dave Jones..The Imprint Gos. DVD.
Im just bored, might buy it too watch thats all.

[Pearl]

great thread guys loads of good stuff in there to read very intresting reading:supz:

[Bones]

great thread guys loads of good stuff in there to read very intresting reading:supz:

Have to agree made good reading so far

PAUL

[PenelopeP]

Only you could answer this question for yourself, but I'd have to say going on the fact youre asking the right questions and actively looking for as many answers as you can get, tells me you may very well be a lot closer than you give yourself credit for.

If you have a dream to do something, get out there and do it. So long as you have the determination to get it right you will learn what you need to know to do it right.
We're expecting a baby in June and my wife is terrified we wont know what to do. Me, I think its great, 9 whole months to prepare for the thing's arrival and along the way everyone is telling you what to expect.
I'm still not going to have the slightest clue what to do when it does arrives but at least she's read the books :-)

I cant say much about the imprinting bit but tell ur wife to ignore everything everyone tells her about what to do and expect (except this of course) and do what her body and head tells her to. Worked for me and I enjoyed labour (mad I know) and just fell into the mummy routine. Simple as that. After all mummy knows best. Its just instinct. :D