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Kitana
26-05-2007, 12:22 AM
A very good friend of mine is a professionnal animal trainer since 25 years, and in her life she has imprinted many different mammals (I can recall arctic and gray wolves, lions, tigers, lama, deer, marmot, and I may forget other species). She is very scientific in her approach to imprinting an animal and do not want to do any mistake that could screw them up more than necessary, and she imprints them so well that Gary Priest, from the San Diego Zoological Society, bought some of the arctic wolves she imprinted to walk them and show them in the Zoo, amongst the public. Ray Coppinger himself came to the zoo where she worked to see how she was imprinting the cubs, to give you an idea of the quality of her work...

So, we were talking about the imprinting process and the difference between birds and mammals and the goals you want to achieve with an imprint, and she pointed to me something done by falconers that would be considered as a big mistake in any other species. I would like to see if somebody could comment this and tell me if I depicted the imprinting process wrongly to her or not!

The thing she pointed as wrong to her, is the imprint tank. She told me that all the biologists, for birds and mammals alike, teached her to keep the animal in close contact with her 24/24, 7/7. No bath, or shower, no clean clothes or deodorant or perfumes (at least for the animals sensible to scents), the animal must accompany her everywhere she goes, in her arms if it can't follow. The Wolf Park, led by Dr Erick Klinghammer, imprints wolves that way and in a way which resembles more falconry with the cubs kept in enclosures most of the time and humans present a certain % of the day. They have more agression problems with the ones that are kept separated from humans compared with the ones that live with humans.

She told me that the #1 goal of imprinting an animal is to annihilate any fear it could develop by making it grow amongst those possible fears, in close contact with them, learning this way that they are not dangerous. So by seperating the animal from the world in a tank, even a transparent tank, is not something she would do... So for those who imprinted one or many birds, what do you think of this opinion, and the imprint tank? Keep in mind she is a special person with no disdain of anything, wolf cubs and tigers and lions and deers are not clean animals such as cats or dogs, they urinate and defecate exactly where they are, even if they sleep or eat there... So when she imprints them, there is urine and poops all over the place, of course she cleans out but it is waaaaay worse than bird mutes...




Harris
26-05-2007, 12:26 AM
Surely it must be difficult sleeping with these animals? which I assume she must do!

Kitana
26-05-2007, 01:26 AM
Surely it must be difficult sleeping with these animals? which I assume she must do!

Yes she does. And I wouldn't do it!

FredrickFogg
26-05-2007, 03:44 AM
I had a friend that imprinted a coops by letting it have free range in his house. He would set its food bowl in a different room each day and make it find its own food. It would come up and climb up on his lap and his son's lap and sleep while they watched TV. It just ran around on the floor and when it was finally flying, would fly up on the top of the couch or chair or on top of the fridge while he was in the ktichen. It was the tamest imprint I have ever seen. Once it was close to hard penning, he started taking it outside and let it roam where ever it wanted to go while he did his chores, it usually followed him around. Once it was hard penned and was flying, he just turned it loose outside and it would chase birds in the trees and bushes while he did his chores. He would just call it down with the lure when it was time to go inside. Unfortunately, one day it was chasing a small bird and landed on a transformer and was electructed. I think it would have turned out to be an excellent hunting bird and sure would have liked to see how it turned out.

Fred

FrootDog
26-05-2007, 05:12 AM
Most people I know in the US that have done imprints, myself included have not used an imprint tank. Instead, much as you describd the birds go everywhere with them. I kept my cooper's in a smal box full of twigs that she could easily see out of and quickly got to the point she could hop out of it and cruise around wherever she wanted to. After about a week or 2 of that she was tethered to a perch, but still went everywhere with me.

Tim Laycock
26-05-2007, 08:35 AM
Imprint tanks do not have to impede the imprinter taking his imprint with him everywhere.
I ran two tanks, one just under three feet wide and another about sixteen inches wide for in the car/on the move etc.

It worked well, no fears as described and my life/lounge/car were remarkably free from Gos **** :supz:

Pitbull
26-05-2007, 09:10 AM
As far as Im aware, the tank is more a mess control measure. With mammals and the likes you can either train a mammal to go to the toilet when you want, or put a nappy on it.
When it comes too birds, there is no set routine. You can't train them and you can't put a nappy on them.

Sophie
26-05-2007, 09:25 AM
interesting theory

i've never seen a imprint in a tank come out any worse than others but these were in no means in the tank all the time, and ran around freely around people most of the time and were just put in the tank if they couldn't be out for mess reasons etc.

i certainly would love to spend all my time with an imprint but i don't think i could sleep with one!!

FredrickFogg
26-05-2007, 09:47 AM
When it comes too birds, there is no set routine. You can't train them and you can't put a nappy on them.

I have a Caique parrot and when I take him out of the cage, I can hold him over the sink or over a trash can and tell him to "potty" and he does it. So you can train parrots to go on command, but I have never heard of anyone being able to do it with any other type of bird.

Fred

Tim Laycock
26-05-2007, 10:24 AM
As far as Im aware, the tank is more a mess control measure. With mammals and the likes you can either train a mammal to go to the toilet when you want, or put a nappy on it.
When it comes too birds, there is no set routine. You can't train them and you can't put a nappy on them.

Correct Dave, Any young social imprint(Raptor :rolleyes: ) will be helping itself to food as it cares to eat (Should be!)

There is no rhyme or reason to when and where it *****s.
I can manage a a grown goshawk and know its not gonna **** everywhere at a given time with a 95% certainty.
Cant be done with a downey eyass .

Imprint tanks get your mariage through the summer :lol:

FrootDog
27-05-2007, 07:15 AM
Here's a pic of the set up used for my coop to control the mess. The first smaller box with twigs sits indide the 3 sided box.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/frootdog/tubodog17days2.jpg

Altai
27-05-2007, 11:22 AM
I use a tank for young chicks and a childs playpen for more mobile/older chicks (with lots of news paper and old sheets). I spend every waking hour with them. If the weather is fine we spend the day "playing" in the garden. I eventually teather them for their own safty. If I lived in the middle of nowhere I would just let them go on to tame hack from the property.

Interestingly I was a week into imprinting a female peregrine ten years ago when I had a serious problem with my back. This resulted in me spending 4 months in bed and on the couch. This falcon was with me for the whole time, day and night. She did not get the time outside and missed out on the "playtimes". She has always been "bombproof" and silent but has never laid an egg. Any insights would be very welcome.