imprinting on a future breeding partner

[Pearl]

if you had a male lanner that was reared by a saker , the lanner would imprint on the saker as future breeding partner so not seing another lanner as his own kind ,so if you had a saker reared by a lanner the same would apply? so if the lanner male and female saker was put together would they breed naturaly and would this hybrid be of any use ??? ;) any thoughts would be great :wink:

[Harris]

Interesting thread! Surely any bird or animal for that matter that has been raised by adifferent speices, would naturaly think that it was what ever it had been raised by?

[Pearl]

i would have thought so mate as they dont just imprint on the mother and farther aslo nest site food ect :wink:

[Goldie]

1) Yes, they would attempt to breed.
2) would there be fertile eggs......don't know
3) would a lanner/saker be any good........ not for me but someone would find a use i suppose.

The rearing methods you state are what is used for natural breeding of ferrugietails etc.

[Rocky]

Mark let me get this right,so the male lanner will think it is a saker and the female saker will think its a lanner,wouldn't like to say 100% that they would breed mate but in the laws of chemistry you never know...........

[Pearl]

Mark let me get this right,so the male lanner will think it is a saker and the female saker will think its a lanner,wouldn't like to say 100% that they would breed mate but in the laws of chemistry you never know...........correct matey , i have heard of lanner x saker but not seen one or how they went flying wise :supz:

[Pearl]

i have a pere x prairie that was reared by a prairie so she would not know a pere as a breeding partner ??:D

[Harris]

Forgive my ignorance as pointy wings aren't my strong point! but aren't lanners and sakers very similar in terms of flight style and hunting abilities anyway? not having a dig, just curious as to what benefits there would be. Please correct me tho iff I'm way off the mark. :yawinkle:

[Pearl]

not sure on that one mate as i thought the lanner was more towards the pere i may be wrong maybe some one will correct me ?? , :D

[Harris]

not sure on that one mate as i thought the lanner was more towards the pere i may be wrong maybe some one will correct me ?? , :D


PMSL! its like the blind leading the blind :supz:

[Pearl]

PMSL! its like the blind leading the blind :supz:
pmsl who said that :supz:

[Shaun Byrne]

correct matey , i have heard of lanner x saker but not seen one or how they went flying wise :supz:

I flew a female bred by Pete Sibson Mark. VERY agile birds, only flew her in demo, so hunting wise I couldn't comment.

[SSL]

Would anything else be in the nest, i.e 'natural' offspring of the parent birds?

[Pearl]

Would anything else be in the nest, i.e 'natural' offspring of the parent birds?yes mate but im not doing it just a thought well i may ya never know lol :supz:

[Pearl]

I flew a female bred by Pete Sibson Mark. VERY agile birds, only flew her in demo, so hunting wise I couldn't comment.was it a nice bird to handle matey?? what was the feet like ?:supz:

[SSL]

yes mate but im not doing it just a thought well i may ya never know lol :supz:

I thought this would cause you problems, thinking along the lines that creche reared hawks still breed naturally when the only other hawks they see are their siblings.

Steve.

[Pearl]

they would be fully parent reared but by vice vercer parents ? :D

[SSL]

they would be fully parent reared but by vice vercer parents ? :D

What I'm getting at is they will 'imprint' on their 'siblings' in the nest as well as the parents feeding them.

If you put a Lanner (for example) in with a clutch of Sakers being reared by Sakers obviously your hunky dory.

[rocgwp]

I'm really curiuos about this now. Someone posted that this is how ferrugtails are produced naturally. I'd love to hear how this is done. Does anyone know the specifics?

[Falcon911]

if you had a male lanner that was reared by a saker , the lanner would imprint on the saker as future breeding partner so not seing another lanner as his own kind ,so if you had a saker reared by a lanner the same would apply? so if the lanner male and female saker was put together would they breed naturaly and would this hybrid be of any use ??? ;) any thoughts would be great :wink:

In theory you are right and some people do rear birds like this to have natural pairs producing hybrids but it is not always necessary. Some birds will breed simply because they dont have a natural selection so in effect are 'forced' together due to the confines of the aviary. I have seen a Lanneret breed with a Saker that were reared by their 'correct' parents and I have a female Lanner that has bred with both a Lanneret (first) and now a Peregrine.
The Lanner/Sakers looked like larger slightly pale Lanners and seemed a bit more powerful in flight (I only saw the Lure flying) but that's about it.
Cheers
Andy

[Pearl]

thanks for your replys guys and i would be be rearing a saker in the scrape with other lanners so the sakers will think its a lanner i already have a lanneret bieng reared by a saker so half way there ill see im not 100 % sure yet weather ill do it :rolleyes:

[Falcon911]

thanks for your replys guys and i would be be rearing a saker in the scrape with other lanners so the sakers will think its a lanner i already have a lanneret bieng reared by a saker so half way there ill see im not 100 % sure yet weather ill do it :rolleyes:

Yeah why not go for it!

[Altai]

i would have thought so mate as they dont just imprint on the mother and farther aslo nest site food ect :wink:

And siblings.

[Pearl]

And siblings.thats a good point dave mate would the sibling lanners imprint on the saker chick ??;)

[Matthew Patching]

I have heard of alsorts breeding with alsorts, regardless of rearing, naturaly produced hybrids occur more readily than people admit. with cross fostering, it is never cut and dried. Many birds that are cross fostered will only breed with there un-natural partner during there first breeding season, then appear to revert back, refusing copulation in subsequent breeding seasons, however this again isn t fact for every bird. Some continue to breed with unatural partners throughout there life.

Some birds breed with un-natural partners even though they have been reared by natural parents, (as was the case of the first harrisxredtail hybrids produced in britain, (lucky that it was a natural accident, I cant think of how to justify this hybrid, otherwise)),

As for lannerxsakers, have seen one flown, by a guy in north notts, (cant remember his name, unfortunatly), he flew it at rabbits (bizzarley) along with a perexlanner (also flown at rabbits) and a hh that he reserved for challenging muggins of the local pheasants. very odd set-up, I would have done it the other way around, but he liked this:!: , I only saw about a dozen flights with this hybrid, but they went quite well, despite being overmatched, and out of 12 flights (or so) he brought 5 or 6 rabbits to bag.

[Altai]

thats a good point dave mate would the sibling lanners imprint on the saker chick ??;)

They seem to think that "my brother/sister is like me but not exactly the same, but would be ok to breed with".
I have often wondered, the " language of say lanner and saker are slightly different, a chick learns its langue from its parents, if a chick has mixed parents or there is a mixture of species of chicks in the nest do the chicks end up bilingual?" (I need to get out more!!!!).

[Pearl]

I have heard of alsorts breeding with alsorts, regardless of rearing, naturaly produced hybrids occur more readily than people admit. with cross fostering, it is never cut and dried. Many birds that are cross fostered will only breed with there un-natural partner during there first breeding season, then appear to revert back, refusing copulation in subsequent breeding seasons, however this again isn t fact for every bird. Some continue to breed with unatural partners throughout there life.

Some birds breed with un-natural partners even though they have been reared by natural parents, (as was the case of the first harrisxredtail hybrids produced in britain, (lucky that it was a natural accident, I cant think of how to justify this hybrid, otherwise)),

As for lannerxsakers, have seen one flown, by a guy in north notts, (cant remember his name, unfortunatly), he flew it at rabbits (bizzarley) along with a perexlanner (also flown at rabbits) and a hh that he reserved for challenging muggins of the local pheasants. very odd set-up, I would have done it the other way around, but he liked this:!: , I only saw about a dozen flights with this hybrid, but they went quite well, despite being overmatched, and out of 12 flights (or so) he brought 5 or 6 rabbits to bag.thanks for that matt , can i just say im 100% on doing this and to be fair im gong of the idea as time goes on , but it is intresting to look into the imprinting side of things as most just look at imprinting on human partners just makes think how birds work and also damage that can be done to bird growing up not knowing what it is you could end up with a very mixed up bird /s thanks for your input mate :supz:

[Pearl]

They seem to think that "my brother/sister is like me but not exactly the same, but would be ok to breed with".
I have often wondered, the " language of say lanner and saker are slightly different, a chick learns its langue from its parents, if a chick has mixed parents or there is a mixture of species of chicks in the nest do the chicks end up bilingual?" (I need to get out more!!!!).not at all dave i think your right mate , watching my lanners in the breeding pen gives you some idea as to how they learn , i have two young males watching the parents dig scrapes and they look abit confused but must be learning :supz:

[Goldie]

I'm really curiuos about this now. Someone posted that this is how ferrugtails are produced naturally. I'd love to hear how this is done. Does anyone know the specifics?

In simple terms,
1) newly hatched ferrugenous are given to RT to be raised, and vice versa. When mature, these offspring will or should readily accept the other species as mates and also to a lesser degree there own kind. This is based on the fact they each see their foster parents as what they are but also their siblings.

2) a single chick introduced to the other species if eggs hatch at roughly the same time is therefor reared as that species and will in turn breed with the same type.

Both these methods have been used by someone i know and are "Fact" and the next stage he is at is trying to get a pair of ferrutails to breed.
I have never seen one perform in the field and to be honest, don't really see what they have to offer.

[SBFalconry]

if you had a male lanner that was reared by a saker , the lanner would imprint on the saker as future breeding partner so not seing another lanner as his own kind ,so if you had a saker reared by a lanner the same would apply? so if the lanner male and female saker was put together would they breed naturaly and would this hybrid be of any use ??? ;) any thoughts would be great :wink:
How do cuckoo's breed sorry not taking the **** just food for thought

[Pearl]

this is true short arse i heard one at the back of my house last night funny enough and thought the same ? but they cant get in my pens and if they do they will not get out lol:supz:

[SBFalconry]

this is true short arse i heard one at the back of my house last night funny enough and thought the same ? but they cant get in my pens and if they do they will not get out lol:supz:

pmsl:lol:

[SBFalconry]

pmsl:lol:

On a serious note mark that gos i flew for a few years was raised by harris's after i sold it i heard it bread some nice gosses

[Pearl]

im not sure mate but i was once told and may be wrong that goshawks can in time loose there imprintedness if thats the right word lol same as sparrowhawks but i may be and mostly am wrong about this sort of thing loli aslo had a harris reared by goshawks that went on to breed with a harris :rolleyes:

[SBFalconry]

im not sure mate but i was once told and may be wrong that goshawks can in time loose there imprintedness if thats the right word lol same as sparrowhawks but i may be and mostly am wrong about this sort of thing loli aslo had a harris reared by goshawks that went on to breed with a harris :rolleyes:

What a can of worms my mate once bread a barn owl with a jackdoor and got a barn door pmsl:lol:

[Pearl]

What a can of worms my mate once bread a barn owl with a jackdoor and got a barn door pmsl:lol:pmsl:supz: