Could any one give me a hand crèche rearing a Harris??

[Avic]

Hi,

Basically my girlfriend is getting a Peruvian harris and it was supposed to be parent reared. After a long story basically it now can’t be and the breeders hand rearing it as we speak. Its 7 days old today and it’s on its own.

So I suppose the question is, firstly are there any breeders out there that would be prepared crèche rear it with some of there own birds?

And secondly even if I could find some one is it a bad idea as it’s been on its own up to this point??

Thanks

[FalconMistress]

could you not rear it yourself?

[FalconMistress]

Hi,

Basically my girlfriend is getting a Peruvian harris and it was supposed to be parent reared. After a long story basically it now can’t be and the breeders hand rearing it as we speak. Its 7 days old today and it’s on its own.

So I suppose the question is, firstly are there any breeders out there that would be prepared crèche rear it with some of there own birds?

And secondly even if I could find some one is it a bad idea as it’s been on its own up to this point??

Thanks

I dont belive there would be many breeders who would do that as they are likely to be busy with there own.

secondly event hough its been on its own it would be ok to put with other at a simular age/size. But for a good imprint i would suggest that it is kept on its own. why can the breeder not give the chick back to the parents, or another pair of harris's (if he has another pair) normally we take the eggs and rear the chicks for the first week then give them back, to the parents!

[CanadaManada]

Who was the breeder, and what happened?
PM me if you like.
I have a particular interest in Peruvian HHs.

[JanMan]

Hi,

Basically my girlfriend is getting a Peruvian harris and it was supposed to be parent reared. After a long story basically it now can’t be and the breeders hand rearing it as we speak. Its 7 days old today and it’s on its own.

So I suppose the question is, firstly are there any breeders out there that would be prepared crèche rear it with some of there own birds?

And secondly even if I could find some one is it a bad idea as it’s been on its own up to this point??

Thanks

Hello Hamish,

Firstly, if the youngster isn't what you were expecting, do you have to go ahead with it. There are so many alternatives about.
If you have to take this particular bird, what you want to do with it would obviously determine the preference on how it was reared. If you want to hunt with it there is no reason why it should not be hand reared with great care but, do you know what sort of a job the breeder has made of it so far. There is a lot to consider. Do you want it to be creche reared as a dual imprint?:roll:

[Avic]

Thanks for all the enthusiasm guys! Nice to get good replys!

could you not rear it yourself?

I could do but we may want to breed it in the future with my female part Peruvian so I’d like to crèche rear it for that reason.

I dont belive there would be many breeders who would do that as they are likely to be busy with there own.

secondly event hough its been on its own it would be ok to put with other at a simular age/size. But for a good imprint I would suggest that it is kept on its own. why can the breeder not give the chick back to the parents, or another pair of harris's (if he has another pair) normally we take the eggs and rear the chicks for the first week then give them back, to the parents!

We would pay for the service! So that may generate a bit of interest. Also the problem is the parents haven’t had any thing under them for a while I think some thing like 30 days with no eggs or chicks. This chic was of the second cluch of the year btw.

Who was the breeder, and what happened?
PM me if you like.
I have a particular interest in Peruvian HHs.

I’ve actually already pm’d you his details!!! Do you want them again?

Hello Hamish,

Firstly, if the youngster isn't what you were expecting, do you have to go ahead with it. There are so many alternatives about.
If you have to take this particular bird, what you want to do with it would obviously determine the preference on how it was reared. If you want to hunt with it there is no reason why it should not be hand reared with great care but, do you know what sort of a job the breeder has made of it so far. There is a lot to consider. Do you want it to be creche reared as a dual imprint?:roll:

This is the only breeder in England of these pure Peruvians. The reason this is the bird my girlfriend wants is because they are something a bit different and she just likes the sound of them. Also if we breed him and my bird together in the future there is more chance we’ll be able to sell them and we both feel that it would be nice to produce harris’s that are a little original if you follow me?!!

We want it crèche reared so it can be bread from in the future and because I think they make better birds.


Another option is using mirrors in the rearing box so I can see “other” harris’s. I’ve heard that some big breeders use this method with great success.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

....

[Shaun Byrne]

I'm a bit lost mate.

If the only stipulation is that it should breed naturally at a later date, why are you asking for someone to creche rear it? Why not fully parent reared?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

where did you get your female peruvian from?

[Avic]

I'm a bit lost mate.

If the only stipulation is that it should breed naturally at a later date, why are you asking for someone to creche rear it? Why not fully parent reared?

You're right we could go down that route but we'll be wanting this bird at about 8 weeks and I don't know how breeders will react when I say I want to take the harris out of a breeding seclusion aviary earlier than the VAST majority will even be thinking about taking there own birds out.

Also as I said we'd actually prefer to achieve a crèche reared bird over a parent reared one.

[Avic]

where did you get your female peruvian from?

She's part peruvian and Paul Harris bred her but he isn't breeding them any more.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

paul harris hemel hempsted ?

your bird a sister to "Ami" .... before pauls female prolapsed its innerds?

[Avic]

paul harris hemel hempsted ?

your bird a sister to "Ami" .... before pauls female prolapsed its innerds?


Yeah that’s right ami "Lee William harris's" bird. I think his male escaped as well, some builders let him go by mistake.

Aya was 1 of 4 of pauls female harris's last cluch before she died.

[Salty]

Hi,

Basically my girlfriend is getting a Peruvian harris and it was supposed to be parent reared. After a long story basically it now can’t be and the breeders hand rearing it as we speak. Its 7 days old today and it’s on its own.

So I suppose the question is, firstly are there any breeders out there that would be prepared crèche rear it with some of there own birds?

And secondly even if I could find some one is it a bad idea as it’s been on its own up to this point??

Thankswait and get your girlfriend a parent reared one i gaurantee youl wish you had when its screaming the place down,and it most certainly will ,i wouldnt even touch a creche reared one to be honest as they can scream as loud aswell , theres plenty pr reared availible now ,and id get one of them mate at least 16 weeks old ,salty :supz:

[Pitbull]

I'm curious...Why 8 weeks.

[Avic]

wait and get your girlfriend a parent reared one i gaurantee youl wish you had when its screaming the place down,and it most certainly will ,i wouldnt even touch a creche reared one to be honest as they can scream as loud aswell , theres plenty pr reared availible now ,and id get one of them mate at least 16 weeks old ,salty :supz:

NO WAY!! They scream if you do it wrong sure but do it right, get them entered ASAP and you reduce the risk of screaming by breaking the association of you and food to quarry and food.

Plus why keep an incredibly intelligent bird at the most important learning stage of its life in seclusion?? All young animals are like sponges, absorbing experience and knowledge. The sooner a hawk is entered the better.

Plus this is the only guy that’s got Peruvians, if you know any one else that breeds 1 pound (450) male harris’s that are capable of taking 55 blackbirds in one season let me know!! :yawinkle:

Cheers any way though!

[Avic]

I'm curious...Why 8 weeks.


At hard penning.

[Pitbull]

yeah but like you say, you want to get them entered asap, yeah. Now say someone has them now, in 8 weeks its beginning of august, how long after that do you expect to get it entered.
But more than likely the birds are a couple of weeks old already, if there is anyone that has what you want.
Do you not think it maybe a bit early for entering. You may have to start entering 1 say the end of july possibly sooner.

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Yeah that’s right ami "Lee William harris's" bird. I think his male escaped as well, some builders let him go by mistake.

Aya was 1 of 4 of pauls female harris's last cluch before she died.

well she is three then ... I took the smallest female of that clutch

very dynamic bird ...

now I would very much doubt if there is any peruvian in them
peruvian's I have seen have a very "odd" colouration

I think they are just small birds ... very very good prob one of the best I have flown.... but I doubt peruvian decent

[Jeremiah Johnson]

if you know any one else that breeds 1 pound (450) male harris’s that are capable of taking 55 blackbirds in one season let me know!! :yawinkle:


not really my Idea of austringing ... each to there own

[Avic]

well she is three then ... I took the smallest female of that clutch

very dynamic bird ...

now I would very much doubt if there is any peruvian in them
peruvian's I have seen have a very "odd" colouration

I think they are just small birds ... very very good prob one of the best I have flown.... but I doubt peruvian decent


Mate they defiantly have Peruvian in them. I’ve seen pure Peruvians and the coloration is very similar. They are obviously not superior and are much lighter than Mexicans. My female has the same coloration as my friends pure Peruvian. That light edging on the breast feathers your female will have is one of the Peruvian’s trade marks.

Interesting to hear about you bird though, I’ve found mine to be a brilliant bird and she does some things which are unlike any other harris’s I’ve heard of!! On top of that unfortunately she’s also the most accident prone!!

[Avic]

yeah but like you say, you want to get them entered asap, yeah. Now say someone has them now, in 8 weeks its beginning of august, how long after that do you expect to get it entered.
But more than likely the birds are a couple of weeks old already, if there is anyone that has what you want.
Do you not think it maybe a bit early for entering. You may have to start entering 1 say the end of july possibly sooner.

He 7 days old and will hopefully be hunting young rabbits by the end of July.

[Avic]

not really my Idea of austringing ... each to there own

May i ask why?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

Mate they defiantly have Peruvian in them. I’ve seen pure Peruvians and the coloration is very similar. They are obviously not superior and are much lighter than Mexicans. My female has the same coloration as my friends pure Peruvian. That light edging on the breast feathers your female will have is one of the Peruvian’s trade marks.

Interesting to hear about you bird though, I’ve found mine to be a brilliant bird and she does some things which are unlike any other harris’s I’ve heard of!! On to of that unfortunately she’s also the most accident prone!!

Yes Lindy had the light edge on the breast mail

I flew a so called "peruvian" 10 years or so ago its colour morph would be close to the a breast mail feather edging we are talking about

saying that that is my only experiance of these ledgendary birds so I will stand corrected

have you pictures of butterworth's?

I also just class harris's as small medium large and ducking humungous

As for Black birds ... I have a soft spot for them and quite like them so wouldnt hunt them deliberatly ... wouldnt stop the bird going for one either

[Avic]

Yes Lindy had the light edge on the breast mail

I flew a so called "peruvian" 10 years or so ago its colour morph would be close to the a breast mail feather edging we are talking about

saying that that is my only experiance of these ledgendary birds so I will stand corrected

have you pictures of butterworth's?

I also just class harris's as small medium large and ducking humungous

As for Black birds ... I have a soft spot for them and quite like them so wouldnt hunt them deliberatly ... wouldnt stop the bird going for one either

I'm told that graham butterworth doesn't have peruvians any more. to my knolage (and i did a lot of reasearch!) only a guy called richard has them now and he got his pair from portugal. if you want i'll give you his details?

[Jeremiah Johnson]

thanks but no have moved on a bit now all mmy pens are full and am flying a Lugger this year

[Flying Mackem]

NO WAY!! They scream if you do it wrong sure but do it right, get them entered ASAP and you reduce the risk of screaming by breaking the association of you and food to quarry and food.

Plus why keep an incredibly intelligent bird at the most important learning stage of its life in seclusion?? All young animals are like sponges, absorbing experience and knowledge. The sooner a hawk is entered the better.

Plus this is the only guy that’s got Peruvians, if you know any one else that breeds 1 pound (450) male harris’s that are capable of taking 55 blackbirds in one season let me know!! :yawinkle:

Cheers any way though!
seen and heard all this before mate ,EVEN WHEN DONE RIGHT ,just get ya aviary as far away from yer neighbours as you can so they dont get you evicted through it, cos if you think itl not be vocal think again ive saw and heard this many many times saw them entered straight away ,i used to breed them and i know ,left till 16 weeks doesnt make them worse it makes them much better and the joints harden up on the feet so less chance of fractures ect ,a common think in harrises when taken to early hence why breeders leave them longer ,also to reduce the scream factor . ,but in all honesty if you can creche reare or imprint yours and itl be silent and great and everything you want it .then you should get a medal mate and well done ,but i have my doubts that it wont scream ,just put a good radio on and play it loud all day when its screaming thats what one lad i met does with his creche reared bird and works for him but dont know how his neighbours feel about it , :P

[Avic]

seen and heard all this before mate ,EVEN WHEN DONE RIGHT ,just get ya aviary as far away from yer neighbours as you can so they dont get you evicted through it, cos if you think itl not be vocal think again ive saw and heard this many many times saw them entered straight away ,i used to breed them and i know ,left till 16 weeks doesnt make them worse it makes them much better and the joints harden up on the feet so less chance of fractures ect ,a common think in harrises when taken to early hence why breeders leave them longer ,also to reduce the scream factor . ,but in all honesty if you can creche reare or imprint yours and itl be silent and great and everything you want it .then you should get a medal mate and well done ,but i have my doubts that it wont scream ,just put a good radio on and play it loud all day when its screaming thats what one lad i met does with his creche reared bird and works for him but dont know how his neighbours feel about it , :P


The fact you’ve never seen a silent crèche reared harris isn’t conclusive proof it can’t be done, I have seen a silent reared harris so that IS conclusive proof it can!! He’s on hear if you want to speak to him, matt eagle, is his name!

And about bones and so on we can minimise the risk, of which I am aware of.

[Flying Mackem]

The fact you’ve never seen a silent crèche reared harris isn’t conclusive proof it can’t be done, I have seen a silent reared harris so that IS conclusive proof it can!! He’s on hear if you want to speak to him, matt eagle, is his name!

And about bones and so on we can minimise the risk, of which I am aware of.
so one harris thats silent is conclusive proof not in my eyes but good luck anyway :o

[Avic]

so one harris thats silent is conclusive proof not in my eyes but good luck anyway :o

No I mean its conclusive proof it can be done! I'm not suggesting it's easy I’m saying it's not impossible.

[Salty]

No I mean its conclusive proof it can be done! I'm not suggesting it's easy I’m saying it's not impossible.

personally mate I MYSELF wouldnt give a ragmans balloon for a creche reared one ,not while theres so many prs about ,but good luck anyway mate :supz:

[Flying Mackem]

personally mate I MYSELF wouldnt give a ragmans balloon for a creche reared one ,not while theres so many prs about ,but good luck anyway mate :supz:
well said salty lol:supz:

[Mac]

I'm told that graham butterworth doesn't have peruvians any more. to my knolage (and i did a lot of reasearch!) only a guy called richard has them now and he got his pair from portugal. if you want i'll give you his details?


i bought a peruvian male from graham butterworth in 96.he flew at 1lb 4oz

the bird was silent and a decent hunter but mail feathers apart. no different to any other harris i have seen.

out of interest those peruvians were the the cheaper option out of the three supposed subgroups by £50! (harrises were roughly £500 then:rolleyes: )

all the best

[Matthew Patching]

God you guys make me laff, I laffed so hard I nearly puked my ring up!

I love the dont get a creche reared hh comments, and leave them til 16 weeks makes me laff aswell.

I wouldnt fly a parent reared harris for all the toffee at roundtrees, let alone one that was taken later than 10 weeks.

why, because at this age they are on there post fledgling learning curve, (which lasts in the wild for about 10 weeks, so basicaly they learn alot of what they need to survive in the 12 or so weeks after penning, they also learn there place within the group, and everything that they learn in this time is soaked up like a sponge!)

So why leave a bird to learn what the inside of an aviary looks like!

I prefer creche reared harris hawks, (I have flown parent reareds, taken at every concievable age, and the closest to the experience of flying a creche reared one was a male taken at 9 weeks)

I have creche reared about 30 harris hawks over the years.(not just bunged in an aviary when they are old enough to pull for themselves, but developed with care and understanding, always aiming for silence)

I will admit that my early attempts didnt lead to silent birds, (but doing somthing right rarely comes at the first attempt).

The thing to remember when training creche reared hh is not to think too much about weight, and the biggest mistake most make is taking them too late, and then cutting them down like a parent reared bird, I have had creche reared hh still flying on hunger (rather than weight) right through until xmas, and the only time I have had then screaming is for about a week when they have had there diets cut in readiness for entering, so dont tell me it cannot be done.

I have a male here who is ten years old, and he hasnt uttered a hunger scream since he was 8 weeks old.

It isnt that he is special either, his sister didnt either, along with about 12 other birds that I have reared, if you think about what you are doing from the birds point of veiw, then you start to understand why badly creche reared harris hawks do scream.

Also worth mentioning is that these birds are not aggressive (unless forced to be by insensitive falconers), mine will sit happily on the fist at hunting weight and let me hand feed them, they mantle but this is natural behaviour, they do this to each other in the wild, and after all you (the falconer) is part of there pack. but if handled with dignity then they will happily jump from kills, allow you to open up kills with bare hands, and remove bits from the kill without even thinking 'robbery'

I also know that there are lots on here that will say 'well I can do that with my pr hh, and you can but how many of you can do this with the bird maybe only 20-30g under top weight, throughout most of its first season?

well there thats me done.

[Salty]

well youre entitled to your opinion mate like i am also ,but ive saw too many screaming harrises to know and so have plenty friends i know ,and as ive said i wouldnt give a ragmans ballon for one , dont know how many threads ive saw on here about screaming harrisses ect ,pr totally for me and MANY more i know ,but like i said each to his own ,and good look with yours mate ,salty;) :supz:

[Rabbit Killer]

Hi,

Basically my girlfriend is getting a Peruvian harris and it was supposed to be parent reared. After a long story basically it now can’t be and the breeders hand rearing it as we speak. Its 7 days old today and it’s on its own.

So I suppose the question is, firstly are there any breeders out there that would be prepared crèche rear it with some of there own birds?

And secondly even if I could find some one is it a bad idea as it’s been on its own up to this point??

Thanks

I'm afraid it may turn out to be quite noisy, but if you have no neighbours, you have nothing to worry about in that respect.

It would be much better parent reared, if it can be.

[Avic]

God you guys make me laff, I laffed so hard I nearly puked my ring up!

I love the dont get a creche reared hh comments, and leave them til 16 weeks makes me laff aswell.

I wouldnt fly a parent reared harris for all the toffee at roundtrees, let alone one that was taken later than 10 weeks.

why, because at this age they are on there post fledgling learning curve, (which lasts in the wild for about 10 weeks, so basicaly they learn alot of what they need to survive in the 12 or so weeks after penning, they also learn there place within the group, and everything that they learn in this time is soaked up like a sponge!)

So why leave a bird to learn what the inside of an aviary looks like!

I prefer creche reared harris hawks, (I have flown parent reareds, taken at every concievable age, and the closest to the experience of flying a creche reared one was a male taken at 9 weeks)

I have creche reared about 30 harris hawks over the years.(not just bunged in an aviary when they are old enough to pull for themselves, but developed with care and understanding, always aiming for silence)

I will admit that my early attempts didnt lead to silent birds, (but doing somthing right rarely comes at the first attempt).

The thing to remember when training creche reared hh is not to think too much about weight, and the biggest mistake most make is taking them too late, and then cutting them down like a parent reared bird, I have had creche reared hh still flying on hunger (rather than weight) right through until xmas, and the only time I have had then screaming is for about a week when they have had there diets cut in readiness for entering, so dont tell me it cannot be done.

I have a male here who is ten years old, and he hasnt uttered a hunger scream since he was 8 weeks old.

It isnt that he is special either, his sister didnt either, along with about 12 other birds that I have reared, if you think about what you are doing from the birds point of veiw, then you start to understand why badly creche reared harris hawks do scream.

Also worth mentioning is that these birds are not aggressive (unless forced to be by insensitive falconers), mine will sit happily on the fist at hunting weight and let me hand feed them, they mantle but this is natural behaviour, they do this to each other in the wild, and after all you (the falconer) is part of there pack. but if handled with dignity then they will happily jump from kills, allow you to open up kills with bare hands, and remove bits from the kill without even thinking 'robbery'

I also know that there are lots on here that will say 'well I can do that with my pr hh, and you can but how many of you can do this with the bird maybe only 20-30g under top weight, throughout most of its first season?

well there thats me done.

Spot on mate!

I'm afraid it may turn out to be quite noisy, but if you have no neighbours, you have nothing to worry about in that respect.

It would be much better parent reared, if it can be.

It may be noisy, but it probably won't. For the reasons explained above by matt eagles very informative post we WILL be getting a crèche reared bird!! I’ve spoken to so many people who say that crèche reared are better than parent reared birds. Better temperaments and better hunters. Just out of interest have you ever actually flown one "rabbit killer"?

[PenelopeP]

Spot on mate!



It may be noisy, but it probably won't. For the reasons explained above by matt eagles very informative post we WILL be getting a crèche reared bird!! I’ve spoken to so many people who say that crèche reared are better than parent reared birds. Better temperaments and better hunters. Just out of interest have you ever actually flown one "rabbit killer"?

Is it possible that the people you have spoken to who know about creche reared could help you? From what matt has said about his experience in creche rearing Id be dogging him to do it for you. :D

[Avic]

Is it possible that the people you have spoken to who know about creche reared could help you? From what matt has said about his experience in creche rearing Id be dogging him to do it for you. :D


Yeah well we work together so thats the plan!!! :supz:

[Claire]

lol you lot sound like you are trying to say PR harris' never scream, the noisiest bird I have known was a pr bird and the quietest was crèche reared. yes if you get it wrong they can be noisey but so can PR birds.

[Ben C]

Good luck avic.........:yawinkle:

[Matthew Patching]

Yeah well we work together so thats the plan!!! :supz:

So thats your plan, then is it, nice of you to let me know, lol, ps got 3 fertile eggs (def) should pip 24th.