eagles off the fist

[EagleMan6905]

So I saw a post some time back where the writer was talking about the Opocno eagle meet and did a great job detailing how the meet went. And in the post he said that eagles are not well suited for off the fist hawking and I was interested why he thought this. I have flown eagles off the fist at jack rabbits for 30 years and find the golden eagle flight off the fist to be very thrilling to watch. It is difficult to discribe the power and speed that the eagles shows in this kind of flight. The black tail jack rabbit is very fast, they only know one thing run and run faster. They rarley go down holes they just run. It is something to see, that a bird the size of an eagle can react that fast and build that much speed.....well if your at all interested check out my DVD Eagle Journal the Movie. You can get a copy at www.mikesfalconry.com or Northwoods, or Western Sporting.com. That would I hope answer the question about off the fist eagle flights.

[Isaac]

Or you can read about it when the eagle journal gets underway again...

Are we close to seeing it back online yet Joe? Looking forward to it. :supz:

[MitchellBrad]

So I saw a post some time back where the writer was talking about the Opocno eagle meet and did a great job detailing how the meet went. And in the post he said that eagles are not well suited for off the fist hawking and I was interested why he thought this. I have flown eagles off the fist at jack rabbits for 30 years and find the golden eagle flight off the fist to be very thrilling to watch. It is difficult to discribe the power and speed that the eagles shows in this kind of flight. The black tail jack rabbit is very fast, they only know one thing run and run faster. They rarley go down holes they just run. It is something to see, that a bird the size of an eagle can react that fast and build that much speed.....well if your at all interested check out my DVD Eagle Journal the Movie. You can get a copy at www.mikesfalconry.com (http://www.mikesfalconry.com) or Northwoods, or Western Sporting.com. That would I hope answer the question about off the fist eagle flights.

Years ago I witnessed an eagle attack on a hybrid. Before releasing any falcon we scan anything an eagle could sit on. Even though it was sunrise we still checked out the hay stacks, poles, etc. Nothing! We know an eagle on the ground or a pole is just as dangerous as one in the air. We had a flock of around 60 sharptails which were flown. The last time out there my gyrkin had taken one but hit a wire at the moment of impact. He still killed the grouse but needed some stitches. Anyway we put the hybrid in the air, got a few flights then the hybrid put one in and was either down on it or chased it to cover stomping around looking for it. Right then and there a BUF comes out of the prairie heading right for the hybrid. She'd been on the ground and we missed her. She climbed up a hundred feet, got over the hybrid then did a wingover that would have done a sharpshinned proud. I never would have believed something that big could have been that agile. The hybrid squirted out from between her feet with nothing more than a broken primary. That eagle made a complete believer out of me.

"What does an eagle eat?" The answer is, "Anything it wants to"

[Ben C]

The difference between a wild one and those that Jim described in Opocno is massive. Too many un-fit eagles at not enough quarry.

[Ned]

The difference between a wild one and those that Jim described in Opocno is massive. Too many un-fit eagles at not enough quarry.

wrong terrain also ben,atb ned.

[Ben C]

Agree......

The best flights I saw in the czech were in valleys and in the woods at deer..................but that was at a smaller meet.


Soaring over the scottish hills is another case entirely ........but then Jim is best placed to talk about that I guess.

[Pitbull]

in the post he said that eagles are not well suited for off the fist hawking and I was interested why he thought this.

I would have said it is pretty obvious, like saying Gos hawks are not suited to soaring.
Because man and bird can do it is why it is done. But it doesn't mean they are best suited.

[EagleMan6905]

Having not gone to the meet in Opocno as of yet I can not say how they fly thier eagles. My only experiance is here in the USA, and flying eagles off the fist is something that they are highly suited for. Walking out into a hay field where the jacks are in there element the flight you get is speed on speed. Over the years I have had 100's of flights where a jack will flush at 20 yards out and the eagle will snag it at 40 yards. So the eagle as doubled the speed of the jack rabbit. Now you may or may not know about the black tail jack rabbit, they are very fast built for speed. They live out in the open fields and their defence is to run and than run faster for long distances. For this kind of flight the golden eagle is perfectly suited, as well as the closer slips eagles will take slips at 5-600 yards. Now to fly a jack down off the fist at 600 yards is something to see, eagles have no top end to their speed, but the jack does and at that great a distance the eagle comes in like a run-a-way freight train. Once you have watch a good experianced eagle hunt in the field one could say that yes they are not suited because they make it look so easy. Both males and females will hunt off the fist but the males truly excell.

[Yorkshire Hawker]

I have been over to the Opocno meeting on no fewer than five times and can say with out a doubt these birds are more than suited to flying off the fist and do move fast for such a large bird, you can check out my dvd Eagle Hawking it took me five years of filming due to the number of flights I had to ditch because of the difficulty of keeping both the bird or the hare in the lense. To some the eagle can look slow in flight but when you witness how fast this bird can cover the ground when chasing an hare most views are changed.
The DVD was done for the N.E.F.C

Cheers Alan

[Goldie]

Joe, i understand exactly what you are saying. My post on opocno was a mere reflection of how it was done there and the circumstances that went with it. Those particular eagles were neither fit enough nor in the right terrain to do themselves justice in off the fist pursuit. An awful lot of the ground was ploughed fields or full of turnip and cabbage etc. The field was walked up until a hare was found and the eagler took position behind the hare. It was then kicked up and given 10 mts of law before the eagle was released. The majority of these slips ended with the hare veering off to the side along a ploughed furrow or in amongst the vegetation leaving the eagle unsighted as it had gained no height.
Now i have no experience of the American "Jack" or how the act but the Brown hare in Europe when pursued by eagles don't tend to run in straight lines, the jink left and right and even do backward summersaults at the last minute. On the occasions when the hares were found on a flat grassed area, the fact they were not given enough start meant that the eagle had not got into their full stride so to speak gave all the advantage to the quarry who wheeled off to the side and left the eagle clutching grass.
I am not saying that eagles need mountains, far from it, but in this part of the world it is better to have some sort of undulating terrain. I mainly fly from the fist and know that Neil (Berkut) flies mainly from the fist and he has had more success than anyone i know, but the ground makes a hell of a difference. Because of the undulating terrain, these eagles actually climb to a point whereby they are above the hare, not high, maybe only 5 meters, but it forces the hare to make the decision which way its going to turn allowing the eagle to commit and save the embarrassment of clutching heather.

[Goldie]

I have been over to the Opocno meeting on no fewer than five times and can say with out a doubt these birds are more than suited to flying off the fist and do move fast for such a large bird, you can check out my dvd Eagle Hawking it took me five years of filming due to the number of flights I had to ditch because of the difficulty of keeping both the bird or the hare in the lense. To some the eagle can look slow in flight but when you witness how fast this bird can cover the ground when chasing an hare most views are changed.
The DVD was done for the N.E.F.C

Cheers Alan

Hi Alan, as you know, i stood beside you on occasion when you were filming and i have to say that with the exceptions of Joseff, Marianne and Erkhardt, all of whos birds were extremely fit, most people spent more time getting their birds of the ground unless the were in the long grass parks that allowed good visual hares.

jim

[PitBullOne]

Joe, i understand exactly what you are saying. My post on opocno was a mere reflection of how it was done there and the circumstances that went with it. Those particular eagles were neither fit enough nor in the right terrain to do themselves justice in off the fist pursuit. An awful lot of the ground was ploughed fields or full of turnip and cabbage etc. The field was walked up until a hare was found and the eagler took position behind the hare. It was then kicked up and given 10 mts of law before the eagle was released. The majority of these slips ended with the hare veering off to the side along a ploughed furrow or in amongst the vegetation leaving the eagle unsighted as it had gained no height.
Now i have no experience of the American "Jack" or how the act but the Brown hare in Europe when pursued by eagles don't tend to run in straight lines, the jink left and right and even do backward summersaults at the last minute. On the occasions when the hares were found on a flat grassed area, the fact they were not given enough start meant that the eagle had not got into their full stride so to speak gave all the advantage to the quarry who wheeled off to the side and left the eagle clutching grass.
I am not saying that eagles need mountains, far from it, but in this part of the world it is better to have some sort of undulating terrain. I mainly fly from the fist and know that Neil (Berkut) flies mainly from the fist and he has had more success than anyone i know, but the ground makes a hell of a difference. Because of the undulating terrain, these eagles actually climb to a point whereby they are above the hare, not high, maybe only 5 meters, but it forces the hare to make the decision which way its going to turn allowing the eagle to commit and save the embarrassment of clutching heather.

absolutely spot on

[EagleMan6905]

Having only seen one or two hares in Germany I can not say much, but they do look bigger and slower than the black tails. When hunting black tailed jack rabbits both eagle and eagle hunter must be ready at all times. The black tail will not wait to be flushed only on rare occations do they hold. And the second you make eye contact they are gone. The normal flush is 20 -30 yards many time farther out and many will be leaving the field as soon as the eagle is seen. A side from their shear speed they will also use sharp turns stop and go in the opposite direction. Jump 5 feet up in the air and throw themselves into water to get away. Where I spent the last 20 years hunting the fields were mostly small and edge in fencing so my eagles had to react with lightning speed or they had no chance. This made for explosive flights and conditioned my #1 eagle to explode off the fist. I would love to see your DVD. We should exchange DVD's I have one on eagle hawking as well. If you like contact me off the group thing and we can get them in the mail. Joe

[Yorkshire Hawker]

Hi Jim I have to say I agree with you, however you hit the nail on the head. Some are not fit at that meeting and most that attend the Opocno meet move on and do a circuit of other venues, but the original thread was are eagles suited to flying off the fist and my personal view is without a doubt they are, it may not be thier comfort zone or even give them the best sucsess rate but a bird that is fit and means business will do very well flown from the fist.

[Hawkmaster]

Certain tracts of land would be better suited to the job of off the fist flying of Eagles too but yes fitness has to be the major key!