Goldie x Steppes

[GSPDad]

Anybody had any experience flying a Goldie x Steppe hybrid?
Whats the temperament,hunting ability like?
All info greatly appreciated.
George.

[KiteTrainer]

Flew one for a couple of seasons ,fantastic at waiting on but took a great deal of encouragement to take game.

Waiting on was absolutely amazing and came to the fist from any height.

I think it would have to be entered at quarry at an early stage in the training

[Berkut]

George,
Kitetrainer on here flew a male. He would wait on for as long as you wanted and never wandered ,but his weight had to be really screwed down to get him to hunt. He would wait on, and follow on at 7lb but would not hunt unless 6lb 2 oz or less. He was quite bad for trying to take other eagles off the fist. I would not recommend one but if you enjoyed seeing an eagle at a good pitch for prolonged periods,without the stress of it ******ing off self-hunting it could be enjoyable and relaxing.
The only thing they really have in their favour is 50% golden eagle.
Neil.

[Berkut]

Flew one for a couple of seasons ,fantastic at waiting on but took a great deal of encouragement to take game.

Waiting on was absolutely amazing and came to the fist from any height.

I think it would have to be entered at quarry at an early stage in the training

Sorry daftie.Didn't realise you were replying.:oops: :oops:

[GSPDad]

Are they easier to handle than a pure Goldie? Im thinking for size aswell, not just as big a lump to humph around!!
Always fancied a Steppe or Tawny but everyone says they are absolutely **** for hunting so thought the hybrid may be a good compromise??? It would be hunting mostly alone but maybe now and again at a field meet, are they all a ****** for trying to take other birds off the fist or could that be overcome with the correct manning and exposure in the early days?
George

[Onyx25]

Had a female for displays at an old job. She would reach terrific hieghts without much effort and did beautiful stoops to a lure. She had some management issues and was very agrressive over food. For hunting pure goldy would be far better and no more money to speak of.

[RedNoseK9]

I just see this as pointless as i dont think there is much to be gained as a goldie in the right hands will fullfill anybodys expectations after all it is an apex predator and has adapted world wide to various terrains and hunting styles so to put steppes into it to me seems a waste as the benefit to me is still unclear.

Wez

[GSPDad]

Had a female for displays at an old job. She would reach terrific hieghts without much effort and did beautiful stoops to a lure. She had some management issues and was very agrressive over food. For hunting pure goldy would be far better and no more money to speak of.
I've heard that some people are importing and selling Goldies at not much different prices than a home bred hybrid but are they worth it? do you really know what your getting?

[Onyx25]

I've heard that some people are importing and selling Goldies at not much different prices than a home bred hybrid but are they worth it? do you really know what your getting?

I would say whatever you get will be an improvement on this hybrid for hunting. The price seems to be dropping quickly on foreign goldies but you can get very good birds bred in the uk for not that much more than a hybrid. I may chance an import in the not too distant future as I would like a very small male if poss just got to get a season when I don't want to fly a goss (may be a while yet :lol:)

[GSPDad]

I would say whatever you get will be an improvement on this hybrid for hunting. The price seems to be dropping quickly on foreign goldies but you can get very good birds bred in the uk for not that much more than a hybrid. I may chance an import in the not too distant future as I would like a very small male if poss just got to get a season when I don't want to fly a goss (may be a while yet :lol:)
Do you know of any good breeders?

[Onyx25]

Andrew Knowles Brown is your man I am told but I am far from an expert on buying Eagles :yawinkle: 1 goldy I flew (briefly) was from him the other a russian import :lol:

[GSPDad]

Andrew Knowles Brown is your man I am told but I am far from an expert on buying Eagles :yawinkle: 1 goldy I flew (briefly) was from him the other a russian import :lol:
It's AKB's hybrid I was looking at! but his goldies are considerabely more expensive!!!!

[Onyx25]

It's AKB's hybrid I was looking at! but his goldies are considerabely more expensive!!!!

There we go maybe his prices have gone up??? Price I got a few years back wasn't a hell of a lot more? Tight ****ers you scots anyway :lol:

[GSPDad]

There we go maybe his prices have gone up??? Price I got a few years back wasn't a hell of a lot more? Tight ****ers you scots anyway :lol:
I'm that tight I squeak when I walk!!!! :grin:

[Goldie]

It's AKB's hybrid I was looking at! but his goldies are considerabely more expensive!!!!

You get what you pay for and i dont know anyone who breeds better.

[Berkut]

You get what you pay for and i dont know anyone who breeds better.

I'll second that Mr Daftie. :wink:

[KiteTrainer]

Sorry daftie.Didn't realise you were replying.:oops: :oops:

Aye just jump in Daftie:rolleyes:

[SteveL]

George,
Kitetrainer on here flew a male. He would wait on for as long as you wanted and never wandered ,but his weight had to be really screwed down to get him to hunt. He would wait on, and follow on at 7lb but would not hunt unless 6lb 2 oz or less. He was quite bad for trying to take other eagles off the fist. I would not recommend one but if you enjoyed seeing an eagle at a good pitch for prolonged periods,without the stress of it ******ing off self-hunting it could be enjoyable and relaxing.
The only thing they really have in their favour is 50% golden eagle.
Neil.

You recomended kitetrainers to me i take it that was just a sales pitch.???

[Berkut]

You recomended kitetrainers to me i take it that was just a sales pitch.???

Not quite how it was Steven. Everything was explained at the time. No need for a sales pitch as there were other buyers waiting had you not wished to buy the bird.
Neil.

[KiteTrainer]

Not quite how it was Steven. Everything was explained at the time. No need for a sales pitch as there were other buyers waiting had you not wished to buy the bird.
Neil.


Did exactly what it said on the tin:supz:

[SteveL]

Not quite how it was Steven. Everything was explained at the time. No need for a sales pitch as there were other buyers waiting had you not wished to buy the bird.
Neil.

Just messin neil:lol: great bird good temprament although your right regarding hunting them there weight really needs screwed down must be the steppe in them.:supz:

[Berkut]

Just messin neil:lol: great bird good temprament although your right regarding hunting them there weight really needs screwed down must be the steppe in them.:supz:

I agree Steven. Hope all is well with you.
Neil.

[SteveL]

I agree Steven. Hope all is well with you.
Neil.

Things are good thanks how about you? Goss is moulting great eagle too, hows your end?

[Berkut]

Things are good thanks how about you? Goss is moulting great eagle too, hows your end?

Coping against incredible odds,but getting there. ;)

[SteveL]

Coping against incredible odds,but getting there. ;)

"sorry".. Good luck with your new falcons for this seasons gulls.

[Matthew Patching]

I dont realy need to comment. Everything has been said.

Hybrid goldies are good for one thing, and that isnt display work.

The steppe in them makes them a bit unreliable, they dont get over the bitting faze (well female dont anyway). you have to get them down to weight for hunting, and this can cause problems with aggression.

Males are a bit better, and dont tend to be as agressive, but IF I was to hunt another one I would pass by to fly a goldie anyday of the week.

Not realy worth the extra effort to be honest.

Maybe you feel that AKBs goldies are going for too high a price, but I think that this is proly because he has reduced the price on his hybreds, because he is having trouble selling them now.

[Pitbull]

I was quite a supprise to hear that AKB was the breeder of the cross. For someone so respected for there goldies I find it strange for him to produce crosses.

[Berkut]

I was quite a supprise to hear that AKB was the breeder of the cross. For someone so respected for there goldies I find it strange for him to produce crosses.

Initially they were in demand ,but the demand has fallen.

[Matthew Patching]

Initially they were in demand ,but the demand has fallen.

They were in demand for novelty value, and the fact that goldies from the continent were still fetching more than they were, the balance has been redressed now, and I wonder how long he will continue to produce them.

After all they were produced in germany in the early 90s, and never realy took off, its just us mugs over here that seem to be obsessed with the odities of the world.

[RileyHall Falconry]

i fly a akb male goldiexsteppe and i cant folt him very well manerd and as for huntin he entered instantly i got afew rabbits under his belt then moved straight on to brown hear witch is in abundance were we are super bird when fit he catches bolted rabbits of the fist he is down to molt at the moment so hopefully a good season to come

lee

[Berkut]

i fly a akb male goldiexsteppe and i cant folt him very well manerd and as for huntin he entered instantly i got afew rabbits under his belt then moved straight on to brown hear witch is in abundance were we are super bird when fit he catches bolted rabbits of the fist he is down to molt at the moment so hopefully a good season to come

lee

Lee,
Good stuff. Taken from scratch I think they may have potential in the right hands. ;)

[The Austringer]

It's AKB's hybrid I was looking at! but his goldies are considerabely more expensive!!!!

If you want quality goldies there is a chap local called George Mussared who has had years of breeding success and having seen a number of the offspring hunt I can certainly vouch for them. I think those who know eagles will already know him.

[Berkut]

If you want quality goldies there is a chap local called George Mussared who has had years of breeding success and having seen a number of the offspring hunt I can certainly vouch for them. I think those who know eagles will already know him.

I agree.I have seen them and they are awesome.Pure Berkut.

[RileyHall Falconry]

Lee,
Good stuff. Taken from scratch I think they may have potential in the right hands. ;)

cheers neil the only bad point to him he has never been hooded can be a bit of a handfull in early maning baits quite alot but apart from that he is spot on this will be his second season with me

lee

[Berkut]

cheers neil the only bad point to him he has never been hooded can be a bit of a handfull in early maning baits quite alot but apart from that he is spot on this will be his second season with me

lee

Lee,
Might be worth persevering with the hood. When I got Cinnibar she was 4years old and had never been hooded and she hated it. She came round and hoods a dream. My brothers goldie was 6 and was hood shy and we managed to turn him around also.Makes a huge difference in the field.
ATB,
Neil.

[GSP]

I agree.I have seen them and they are awesome.Pure Berkut.

I have also seen some of his birds like neil said awesome (without the accent)
I believe Natch on here will be flying a male this season and his mate a female.

[RileyHall Falconry]

Lee,
Might be worth persevering with the hood. When I got Cinnibar she was 4years old and had never been hooded and she hated it. She came round and hoods a dream. My brothers goldie was 6 and was hood shy and we managed to turn him around also.Makes a huge difference in the field.
ATB,
Neil.

i will try and hood him when i bring him out for the new season he is 5and a half so thort it would be late and he dose hate it he grips like crazy but i will persist and hopefully he will come round it will be a great help cheers for the advise mate

lee

[Berkut]

i will try and hood him when i bring him out for the new season he is 5and a half so thort it would be late and he dose hate it he grips like crazy but i will persist and hopefully he will come round it will be a great help cheers for the advise mate

lee

Lee,
I found the difference between success and failure can depend on the hood as well. Speak to Griff.He will sort you out with the perfect hood.
Neil.

[Berkut]

Here's my new batch of hoods.Griff is posting them tomorrow.

[RedNoseK9]

I can vouch for georges birds especially females they are top notch

Wez

[GSPDad]

If you want quality goldies there is a chap local called George Mussared who has had years of breeding success and having seen a number of the offspring hunt I can certainly vouch for them. I think those who know eagles will already know him.
Have you any contact details for him?

[Natch]

If you want quality goldies there is a chap local called George Mussared who has had years of breeding success and having seen a number of the offspring hunt I can certainly vouch for them. I think those who know eagles will already know him.i am picking mine up at the end of the mouth from george8-) and my mate is getting is female also:evil: ,,,,,,,,,,,natch

[RedNoseK9]

Bet you cant wait now gar :supz:

[Natch]

Bet you cant wait now gar :supz:i was going to not get it because so many poeple were slaging them off//////but when i sat back and looked at the poeple who slaged them off are talker,s not hawkers,,,don,t get me wrong i no jack **** about goldie but i will learn:supz: and no i can,t wait

[RedNoseK9]

Gar those who can do, those that cant talk **** on forums, mate your a doer and you will be fine you have forgotten more than most know about flying birds mate and im sure you will do him well cant wait till you get him.

Wez

[Natch]

seen him 3 weeks ago,and the female,,they are very black,well happy8-)

[The Austringer]

Have you any contact details for him?

PM sent

[GSP]

seen him 3 weeks ago,and the female,,they are very black,well happy8-)

Where are the pics then

Steve

[RileyHall Falconry]

Lee,
I found the difference between success and failure can depend on the hood as well. Speak to Griff.He will sort you out with the perfect hood.
Neil.

will do mate were is he based and prises they look just the job thanks again buddy

lee

[Natch]

Where are the pics then

Stevethere on d.v.d8-)

[Natch]

Have you any contact details for him?he will b at the fair,,,,i think he as a male left8-)

[Red Kite]

I fly a female Goldie x Steppe, flies at 3.95kg. She is a hand me down and has had several owners. She flies well and waits on and has taken a few rabbits. She is 8 years old and I have had her for four years.

She came with loads of baggage, very aggressive and sticky footed. Often when you pick her up she grabs the fist with convulsive gripping, enough to bring tears to your eyes. I do not feed her on the fist and rarely call her to the glove because she can be so dangerous. I usually call her to thrown food. I do not let her associate me with large amounts of food.

When I got her she was very nervous and would not sit on the fist. She has improved a great deal. She can be a dream and be well beahaved but when she gets in a strop she becomes an unmanageable dragon.

How do I reduce the agression towards me? Any ideas.

[TimDog80]

I fly a female Goldie x Steppe, flies at 3.95kg. She is a hand me down and has had several owners. She flies well and waits on and has taken a few rabbits. She is 8 years old and I have had her for four years.

She came with loads of baggage, very aggressive and sticky footed. Often when you pick her up she grabs the fist with convulsive gripping, enough to bring tears to your eyes. I do not feed her on the fist and rarely call her to the glove because she can be so dangerous. I usually call her to thrown food. I do not let her associate me with large amounts of food.

When I got her she was very nervous and would not sit on the fist. She has improved a great deal. She can be a dream and be well beahaved but when she gets in a strop she becomes an unmanageable dragon.

How do I reduce the agression towards me? Any ideas.
i beleive berkut, pitbullone and kitetrainer could be the ones to ask, drop one a pm im sure they will advise you;)

regards
tim:-D

[Berkut]

I fly a female Goldie x Steppe, flies at 3.95kg. She is a hand me down and has had several owners. She flies well and waits on and has taken a few rabbits. She is 8 years old and I have had her for four years.

She came with loads of baggage, very aggressive and sticky footed. Often when you pick her up she grabs the fist with convulsive gripping, enough to bring tears to your eyes. I do not feed her on the fist and rarely call her to the glove because she can be so dangerous. I usually call her to thrown food. I do not let her associate me with large amounts of food.

When I got her she was very nervous and would not sit on the fist. She has improved a great deal. She can be a dream and be well beahaved but when she gets in a strop she becomes an unmanageable dragon.

How do I reduce the agression towards me? Any ideas.

Is this "Witch" and have we discussed her recently on the phone.
Neil.

[KiteTrainer]

I fly a female Goldie x Steppe, flies at 3.95kg. She is a hand me down and has had several owners. She flies well and waits on and has taken a few rabbits. She is 8 years old and I have had her for four years.

She came with loads of baggage, very aggressive and sticky footed. Often when you pick her up she grabs the fist with convulsive gripping, enough to bring tears to your eyes. I do not feed her on the fist and rarely call her to the glove because she can be so dangerous. I usually call her to thrown food. I do not let her associate me with large amounts of food.

When I got her she was very nervous and would not sit on the fist. She has improved a great deal. She can be a dream and be well beahaved but when she gets in a strop she becomes an unmanageable dragon.

How do I reduce the agression towards me? Any ideas.

Who did you get her from?

[Berkut]

Who did you get her from?

John,
I think it is the female you had from Charles.The guy phoned me the other night via AKB.

[KiteTrainer]

John,
I think it is the female you had from Charles.The guy phoned me the other night via AKB.

OH:rolleyes:

[PitBullOne]

pms---

[KiteTrainer]

OH:rolleyes:

I had that bird for a short time,too dangerous for me I am afraid, any traits she has are too well ingrained as far as I am concerned, I think she took them of her previous owner.

[HawkEagle]

I fly a female Goldie x Steppe, flies at 3.95kg. She is a hand me down and has had several owners. She flies well and waits on and has taken a few rabbits. She is 8 years old and I have had her for four years.

She came with loads of baggage, very aggressive and sticky footed. Often when you pick her up she grabs the fist with convulsive gripping, enough to bring tears to your eyes. I do not feed her on the fist and rarely call her to the glove because she can be so dangerous. I usually call her to thrown food. I do not let her associate me with large amounts of food.

When I got her she was very neourvous and would not sit on the fist. She has improved a great deal. She can be a dream and be well beahaved but when she gets in a strop she becomes an unmanageable dragon.

How do I reduce the agression towards me? Any ideas.

I really do it a completly way round. I fly my eagle to fist and I only allow my bird to eat on fist and no where else. I never throw food for her. Initually it was a dangerous thing to do because the bird doesnt trust you and try to chase you away or carry the food off your fist to feed else where, however if you persist not letting the bird having her own way then you beat her mentally as a boss. After a while your bird will only see glove a trust worthy place to feed and will learn that you are no danger to have around food.

[Red Kite]

Many thanks for your comments. She is the bird that Kitetrainer had and I am trying to piece together her history. She is called Witch, derived from bitch.

She is most aggresssive when fed rich or fatty food (pheasant, rat, squirrel, pigeon) but more manageable on doc and lean rabbit.

She can be wonderful and I have learned a great deal from her.

I will post sopme photos.

[Phoenix1]

i'll hopefully be going over dartmoor with one with george (devons eagles) in september,let you know how we get on .

mick

[Red Kite]

These Goldie x Steppes hybrids have been bred for many years but why? What advantages do these birds have?

What is the difference in temprament between Goldies and Steppes?

I have flown two of these hybrids (one bred in Germany) and one in UK and they were as different as Chalk and Cheese.

[KiteTrainer]

Novelty Value and cheaper are the only reasons I can think, I think in all respects they are inferior to a Goldie

[Matthew Patching]

Novelty Value and cheaper are the only reasons I can think, I think in all respects they are inferior to a Goldie

No ****,

[arthur_pewty]

Novelty Value and cheaper are the only reasons I can think, I think in all respects they are inferior to a Goldie

I have just read this thread and as I understand it, the eagle Red Kite now owns was previously owned by Kitetrainer? I gather this bird has a fair bit of history and quite a few former keepers?

But I have a question for Kitetrainer. Is your judgement a little colored by your own bad experience of this particular hybrid? If someone owned a well-trained, well-balanced Golden/Steppe, which regularly took quarry, would you alter your opinion? If an eagle (or any hawk, falcon etc) is an accomplished hunter, steady and responsive with the falconer and a good days hawking is had with the bird - surely this is everything we could ask for? Irrespective of breed. Why would this bird be considered "inferior" to a pure Golden?


Just a question - interested to get your perspective on this - thanks!!

I would love to see some photos of Red Kite's bird - if he is able to post some?

[KiteTrainer]

I have just read this thread and as I understand it, the eagle Red Kite now owns was previously owned by Kitetrainer? I gather this bird has a fair bit of history and quite a few former keepers?

But I have a question for Kitetrainer. Is your judgement a little colored by your own bad experience of this particular hybrid? If someone owned a well-trained, well-balanced Golden/Steppe, which regularly took quarry, would you alter your opinion? If an eagle (or any hawk, falcon etc) is an accomplished hunter, steady and responsive with the falconer and a good days hawking is had with the bird - surely this is everything we could ask for? Irrespective of breed. Why would this bird be considered "inferior" to a pure Golden?


Just a question - interested to get your perspective on this - thanks!!

would love to see some photos of Red Kite's bird - if he is able to post some?


No I owned the brother of this bird for a few years and found it to be a pleasure to handle , it waited on and did not really have any vices, other than it was very difficult to get going at quarry.I found it to have relatively small feet and did not think it was the most attractice of birds.
I have not seen the same problems getting a Goldie entered and find them far more esthetically pleasing and for me I would rather pay the extra money and buy a pure Goldie

[KiteTrainer]

No ****,

Thanks for your input I was answering a question put by someone else

[Berkut]

I have just read this thread and as I understand it, the eagle Red Kite now owns was previously owned by Kitetrainer? I gather this bird has a fair bit of history and quite a few former keepers?

But I have a question for Kitetrainer. Is your judgement a little colored by your own bad experience of this particular hybrid? If someone owned a well-trained, well-balanced Golden/Steppe, which regularly took quarry, would you alter your opinion? If an eagle (or any hawk, falcon etc) is an accomplished hunter, steady and responsive with the falconer and a good days hawking is had with the bird - surely this is everything we could ask for? Irrespective of breed. Why would this bird be considered "inferior" to a pure Golden?


Just a question - interested to get your perspective on this - thanks!!

I would love to see some photos of Red Kite's bird - if he is able to post some?

I,ll add my tuppence worth here. If you saw the way this bird behaved you would understand why it may have coloured Kitetrainers judgement to a degree, as it certainly did mine. I have spoken at length on the phone to Red Kite and I have to commend him for his perseverance with this eagle,bearing in mind it is a large female and the most aggressive I have seen. My opinion then (4 years ago)was that euthanasia was the best option for this bird and I maintain that opinion. While the bird may have good days, it will always be aggressive and has the potential to cause serious injury to the handler,especially if it catches him of guard.As for flying this bird loose,I would never consider it due to the potential for disaster.

I do think there is potential for one of these hybrids trained from scratch to be a good and consistent hunter and it may have advantage over a goldie for certain people with limited land to hunt on ,as it may have less of a tendency to self hunt as it becomes more successful in the field.

[Matthew Patching]

Thanks for your input I was answering a question put by someone else

And I was agreeing with you!

[KiteTrainer]

And I was agreeing with you!

Sorry, bit thick at times:lol:

[Matthew Patching]

Sorry, bit thick at times:lol:

No probs:rolleyes: :lol: :lol:

[arthur_pewty]

Kitetrainer and Berkut

Thank you for your answers to my question. Unfortunately, I have another one!!

Without wishing to probe into the whys and wherefores of the history of Red Kite's bird - did she have a particulary traumatic "upbringing" which caused this aggression (mal -imprint?) making her less representative of Golden/Steppes, or do you feel this cross is more prone to aggression than a pure Golden? Obvously, I would imagine the character of any hybrid could be influenced - in part - by the genes of both parents? Would you agree (or not!!)?

It seems a very harsh and difficult choice for Red Kite's eagle. To put the bird to sleep due to her aggression would appear an abhorent act - especially if her behaviour has been caused by humans. But, equally, how could anyone deny an eagle the freedom of flight and keep her locked away?

As you say - Red Kite must be admired for his tenacity with her!

Thanks!

[KiteTrainer]

Her history was very sketchy and I have no idea who first trained her, however I do agree with Berkut in the fact that the bird is a great risk to fly and could attract the unwanted attention particularly in relation to Eagles that we always try to avoid in this country.

[Berkut]

Kitetrainer and Berkut

Thank you for your answers to my question. Unfortunately, I have another one!!

Without wishing to probe into the whys and wherefores of the history of Red Kite's bird - did she have a particulary traumatic "upbringing" which caused this aggression (mal -imprint?) making her less representative of Golden/Steppes, or do you feel this cross is more prone to aggression than a pure Golden? Obvously, I would imagine the character of any hybrid could be influenced - in part - by the genes of both parents? Would you agree (or not!!)?

It seems a very harsh and difficult choice for Red Kite's eagle. To put the bird to sleep due to her aggression would appear an abhorent act - especially if her behaviour has been caused by humans. But, equally, how could anyone deny an eagle the freedom of flight and keep her locked away?

As you say - Red Kite must be admired for his tenacity with her!

Thanks!

I think this bird did have a particularly traumatic upbringing ,as well as the fact that the way it was reared in the first instance is dubious.It is most certainly a mal-imprint of the worst kind. The "previous owner" cannot really be discussed on here,but what I can say when it comes to eagles, and his experience with them,he was a "Walter Mitty" type character and constantly lied. I am also aware of situations when he handled the eagle very roughly indeed.
I think a properley reared hybrid of this kind should not really be any more aggressive than a pure Steppe or a pure Golden.

I agree that it is harsh to suggest euthanasia,but in this respect I view the bird no differently than a dangerous dog. When Kitetrainer owned the bird I was involved also and when it showed aggression it meant it and had the strength to cause very serious injury.When hooded ,it would put the squeeze on and through a triple thickness glove could bring you to your knees in agony. I shudder to think what damage could be done to bare flesh.

Neil.

[Red Kite]

Many thanks for the comments on Witch. I have posted some pictures on the Gallery for those that are interested.

The history of Witch is proving hard to piece together, but I have been told that she was parent raised. She is not a mal-imprint in the usual accepted use of the term. She is very shy of people and nervous of all novel experiences (neophobic), typical behaviour of birds that have been reared in low stimulus environments such as largely enclosed aviaries and then post-fledging not being allowed to develop appropriately.

When I first got her she was very nervous and frightened of people. She was, and still is, very aggressive and posessive over food. I am inclined to believe she has been fed large amounts on the fist, and repeatedly robbed of food. If called to the fist for food she often comes in as if trying to kill the fist. PitBullOne has given me some good insights on this. Since juvenile eagles will attack others to take their food it is quite natural for her to attack me if she thinks I have lots of food.

I have spent a lot of time working on aggression management. She is not fed on the fist, only gets very small food rewards if called to the fist and I do not usually let her see me feed her large amounts of food.

We have careful routines so that she knows what to expect and she is only flown on the land around my home. I live on a sheep farm and can fly her directly from her mews.

She has improved tremendously over the last four years and we have developed a strong bond. She is calm with me most of the time and by keeping to routines we can avoid some of the stress flash points that were experienced early in our relationship.

When I started flying her she was already four years old and although it was clear from her behaviour that she had been flown she did not know much about the wind and how to use it, and in the early days there were lots of uncertain, and crash landings. Often she would range out over a valley loose height and land at the bottom and I would have to go and retrieve her. She never lands in trees and usually lands on a post or on the open ground. This I suspect is Steppe Eagle behaviour

She has learned to use the wind and reads the topography and has a well developed mental map of the region where I fly her. She loves slope soaring and when conditions are favourable she will wait on and fly with the wild buzzards, kites and ravens. In the Summer while she is in moult I fly her in a much higher condition of over 4 kg. If I fly her in the late summer afternoons she often goes up on the soar sometimes until she is just a speck.

In her wing profile and short tail she is similar to a Steppe Eagle, but has the feet of a Goldie. She hunts rabbits and has caught a few but is just not manouverable enough and mostly misses them. She often flies at tree top height and ranges along hedge rows and if she sees a rabbit may put in a spectacular stoop, but the rabbit usually manages to avoid her. Once while chasing a rabbit out in the open the rabbit jumped up in the air at the last moment and she went crashing into the gound beneath it missing it completely. When she chases rabbits into their burrows she will stand outside the burrow as if waiting for it to reappear and in following days she often flies down and waits outside the burrows where she has previously chased rabbits down. This I believe is typical Steppe Eagle behaviour. What she is good at finding are dead sheep and she feeds on these ever if very ripe.

I am persevering with Witch but with extreme caution. I worry about the thought of dangerous eagles in the hands of the inexperienced.

I have spent much of my working career working with problem birds of one sort or another and I took on this bird knowing that she had issues.

Many thanks for all of your insights.

[Berkut]

Had a look at the photos.She looks well.

[KiteTrainer]

Many thanks for the comments on Witch. I have posted some pictures on the Gallery for those that are interested.

The history of Witch is proving hard to piece together, but I have been told that she was parent raised. She is not a mal-imprint in the usual accepted use of the term. She is very shy of people and nervous of all novel experiences (neophyllic), typical behaviour of birds that have been reared in low stimulus environments such as largely enclosed aviaries and then post-fledging not being allowed to develop appropriately.

When I first got her she was very nervous and frightened of people. She was, and still is, very aggressive and possessive over food. I am inclined to believe she has been fed large amounts on the fist, and repeatedly robbed of food. If called to the fist for food she often comes in as if trying to kill the fist. Pitbullone has given me some good insights on this. Since juvenile eagles will attack others to take their food it is quite natural for her to attack me if she thinks I have lots of food.

I have spent a lot of time working on aggression management. She is not fed on the fist, only gets very small food rewards if called to the fist and I do not usually let her see me feed her large amounts of food.

We have careful routines so that she knows what to expect and she is only flown on the land around my home. I live on a sheep farm and can fly her directly from her mews.

She has improved tremendously obver the last four years and we have developed a strong bond. She is calm with me most of the time and by keeping to routines we can avoid some of the stress flash points that were experienced early in our relationship.

When I started flying her she was already four years old and although it was clear from her behaviour that she had been flown she did not know much about the wind and how to use it, and in the early days there were lots of uncertain and crash landings. Often she would range out over a valley loose height and land at the bottom and I would have to go and retrieve her. She never lands in trees and usually lands on a post or on the open ground. This I suspect is Steppe Eagle behaviour

She has learned to use the wind and reads the topography and has a well developed mental map of the region where I fly her. She loves slope soaring and when conditions are favourable she will wait on and fly with the wild buzzards, kites and ravens. In the Summer while she is in moult I fly her in a much higher condition of over 4 kg. If I fly her in the late summer afternoons she often goes up on the soar sometimes until she is just a speck.

In her wing profile and short tail she is similar to a Steppe Eagle, but has the feet of a Goldie. She hunts rabbits and has caught a few but is just not manouverable enough and mostly misses them. She often flies at tree top height and ranges along hedge rows and if she seen a rabbit may put in an amazingly spectacular stoop, but the rabbit usually manages to avoid her. Once while chasing a rabbit out in the open the rabbit jumped up in the air at the last moment and she went crashing into the gound beneath it missing it completely. When she chases rabbits into their burrows she will stand outside the burrow as if witing for it to reappear and in following days she often flies down and waits outside the burrows where she has previously cased rabbits down. This I believe is typical Steppe Eagle behaviour. What she is good at catching is dead sheep and she finds these ever if very ripe.

I am persevering with Witch but with extreme caution. I worry about the thought of dangerous eagles in the hands of the inexperienced.

I have spent much of my working career working with problem birds of one sort or another and I took on this bird knowing that she had issues.

Many thanks for all of your insights.

Hope it goes well for you

[Red Kite]

How long have these hybrids been produced and who produced the first ones and why?

I have been trying to understand the relative merits of this cross over its parent species. I have read through the threads on these hybrids and spoken to a few familiar with these birds. Here I give an end of term report that I would like those in the know to add some additional comments please.

Like many hybrids I suspect the first ones may have been produced because of a lack of a pair of Goldies and there was a suitable egg laying Steppe Eagle available?

They are bred here in Britain but also in Germany (and elsewhere, - Canada?). I have been told they are bred in Germany because they are such good display birds aerial, large and not as aggressive as Goldies.

Several have described them as watered down Goldies, and they are not as good at hunting as Goldies but some take rabbits and hares.

Some are tame and tractable, but some are bad tempered and difficult. The birds produced by one breeder are reputed to be bad tempered, while the AKB birds have a good reputation. Some of the bad tempered birds may be the product of poor handling and training.

In morphology they range from some that look like Golden Eagles through to others that look like Steppe Eagles, most are an obvious mix.

They are very bright and are superior to either parent species in intelligence?

I have flown two, one a small female bred in Germany (from a male Mexican Golden Eagle) was the proportions of a Golden Eagle but with small Steppe Eagle feet. The other a large female bred in UK from a Scottish male Goldie has the proportions of a Steppe Eagle but with the feet (and grip) of a Golden Eagle.

Like Steppe Eagles some bite (although neither of mine did).

They are excellent at waiting on or soaring flight, and some will stay up for an hour or more, are usually well behaved and some will stoop and fly beautifully.

I would like to know what are the obvious Steppe Eagle and Goldie characteristice of these birds.

[Matthew Patching]

I would like to know what are the obvious Steppe Eagle and Goldie characteristice of these birds.

Definate steppe eagle trait,

Going up where there cannot be any lift (flat arable being an example)
Biting (only had it consistently with females)
being slow to mentaly mature for hunting
Lack of white tail, and under wings in imature plumage.
The battle of wills that can come with these birds as handme downs is tremendous. They look at all humans the same, if they have dominated one they can dominate all, where as in my experience a 'dangerous' goldie will atleast acknowledge that you are somone new!

[GSPDad]

Definate steppe eagle trait,

Going up where there cannot be any lift (flat arable being an example)
Biting (only had it consistently with females)
being slow to mentaly mature for hunting
Lack of white tail, and under wings in imature plumage.
The battle of wills that can come with these birds as handme downs is tremendous. They look at all humans the same, if they have dominated one they can dominate all, where as in my experience a 'dangerous' goldie will atleast acknowledge that you are somone new!
It's still early days with mine but so far he's been absolutely great! He does nibble a little bit but nothing too serious and he doesn't get aloud to get away with it, it's more a kind of inquisitive nibble like a child putting things in their mouths!
So far he hasn't ever footed me and never even looked as if he's thought about it, though I never take any bird for granted!
As for the hunting side the idea was to have a good powerfull hunter like the Goldie but minimise the self hunting aspect! Again it's early days with this side but he is nailing dragged bunnies with avengance! Still a lot of fitness training to get done yet.:)
As to origin mine is a Dutch import so I've no comparison to any previous relations.

[Berkut]

It's still early days with mine but so far he's been absolutely great! He does nibble a little bit but nothing too serious and he doesn't get aloud to get away with it, it's more a kind of inquisitive nibble like a child putting things in their mouths!
So far he hasn't ever footed me and never even looked as if he's thought about it, though I never take any bird for granted!
As for the hunting side the idea was to have a good powerfull hunter like the Goldie but minimise the self hunting aspect! Again it's early days with this side but he is nailing dragged bunnies with avengance! Still a lot of fitness training to get done yet.:)
As to origin mine is a Dutch import so I've no comparison to any previous relations.


Sounds very positive. Training for hunting from the word go seems to be the answer.Keep us posted how he progresses.

ATB,
Neil.

[Laggan]

It's still early days with mine but so far he's been absolutely great! He does nibble a little bit but nothing too serious and he doesn't get aloud to get away with it, it's more a kind of inquisitive nibble like a child putting things in their mouths!
So far he hasn't ever footed me and never even looked as if he's thought about it, though I never take any bird for granted!
As for the hunting side the idea was to have a good powerfull hunter like the Goldie but minimise the self hunting aspect! Again it's early days with this side but he is nailing dragged bunnies with avengance! Still a lot of fitness training to get done yet.:)
As to origin mine is a Dutch import so I've no comparison to any previous relations.

Hi George,

good to see you posting about your hybrid. It sounds as though you have made good progress - very pleased for you. I'd be interested in knowing his present flying weight versus his fat empty weight, if you don't mind sharing - a useful comparison for me. Too early for me to do any carcass work yet, but delighted that you are pleased with him in this area too. It would be greatly appreciated if you'd post a little more when you can or if you feel like having a chat sometime perhaps you'd PM me your number.

Many thanks and kind regards.

Iain

[Hacker]

Iain and George,
with two of you both aiming to reach the same goal it will make for an interesting comparison.
Considering this hybrid has been underated for hunting in the past it is now refreshing that we have two forum members prepared to bring their hybrids to a hunting pitch.
I wish you both the best and look forward to your postings of your endeavours with these eagles just remember, loads of pics.:supz:

[Laggan]

Iain and George,
with two of you both aiming to reach the same goal it will make for an interesting comparison.
Considering this hybrid has been underated for hunting in the past it is now refreshing that we have two forum members prepared to bring their hybrids to a hunting pitch.
I wish you both the best and look forward to your postings of your endeavours with these eagles just remember, loads of pics.:supz:

Thanks Richard........you have been positive and supportive all along and it is appreciated.

Iain

[GSPDad]

Hi George,

good to see you posting about your hybrid. It sounds as though you have made good progress - very pleased for you. I'd be interested in knowing his present flying weight versus his fat empty weight, if you don't mind sharing - a useful comparison for me. Too early for me to do any carcass work yet, but delighted that you are pleased with him in this area too. It would be greatly appreciated if you'd post a little more when you can or if you feel like having a chat sometime perhaps you'd PM me your number.

Many thanks and kind regards.

Iain
Hi Iain,
Been keeping an eye on your thread with Rufus and so glad how it's turned out!
As to Griff, when I got him he left Holland on the Friday and Arrived with me on the Sunday early afternoon and weighed in at just a fraction under the 8lb mark but whether he had been fed on the Friday or not I don't know but he got a good feed that day and weighed in at 8lb1 1/2oz on the Monday.Most of the basic manning work was done at 7lb14oz and he was quite responsive at that for his food. By the time we got to the dummy bunny stage he would take it at 7lb11oz no problem.The other day he was the lowest I've had him at 7lb8oz when he was really nailing the dummy chasing 100yds plus! I'm really pleased with how he's been to date especially considering that I haven't been able to put as much time into him as possible due to work commitments, the much longer project of building the new Mews, Stables and repairing storm damage etc. He did sit practically idle for about 2weeks till the other day and was maybe a little bit slow on the first flight but after that he responded as good as ever. Hopefully with the Pheasant season just about finished and hopefully better weather than we have at the moment I'll be able to really concentrate on him more and get him entered pretty soon!
Will pm my details.Speak soon.
George.

[GSPDad]

A couple of pics of Griff's training
51113
The colour is not a fault - but due to a lovely Scottish sunset!
51114

51115

[Gary F]

Great write up and pictures George,,
good to read a write up on goldie x steppes by someone who actually owns/flys one,, not just read someone elses opinion whos never owned one,or sold on after a few months,
look forward to reading more on your progress
atb
gary

[Laggan]

Lovely photos George.......I will finally get round to ringing you for a chat! It will be good to compare notes. With regard to Griff's progress, where is he with respect to entering?

Good wishes.

Iain

[GSPDad]

Great write up and pictures George,,
good to read a write up on goldie x steppes by someone who actually owns/flys one,, not just read someone elses opinion whos never owned one,or sold on after a few months,
look forward to reading more on your progress
atb
gary

Thanks Gary,
there is a few differing opinions about this Hybrid out there but I'm happy with the way he is at the moment, especially considering I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to do more concentrated work with him!
George.

[GSPDad]

Lovely photos George.......I will finally get round to ringing you for a chat! It will be good to compare notes. With regard to Griff's progress, where is he with respect to entering?

Good wishes.

Iain

Hi Iain,
Yeah we must have that chat soon!
I'm still not getting as much time as I would like with him but is progressing nicely considering! I need to concentrate on the fitness more and a bit more on the return to the fist before I can let him have a go at the real thing.
I've slowly dropped his weight a bit more and he was at his lightest ever the other day at 7lb 3 1/2oz and really pumped hard after the dummy and really hit it hard! I think this is about a good weight for him to get entered at but hopefully will hunt that bit heavier eventually with him being an imprint! I'm still amazed how willing he is to step off for a chick!
I noticed that you said Ruf's getting a little bit noisy, surprisingly Griff's went the opposite and is silent nowadays! Just little chirps at feeding time, not what I expected from an imprint!
Glad you seemed to enjoy your trip down South, be good to here how it all went!

Cheers George.