Gauging pitch and distance

[JoHo]

Saw this on a different thread. Had a 2 mile recall from 800 foot yesterday evening, with a bird that has been out of the hack pen for 22 days
PS. This is not to have a go at the author

I have also seen other people referring to the pitch their bird achieved. But come on, thats balls right, how can you judge how high a bird has gone without strapping an altimeter to its back?? Saying it was a good high pitch, or holding to close, or not a as high as usual, yeah I can see that, but to assign numbers. :???: Falconers equivalent of the fish that got away.
But I am happy to be corrected.

[MattSpar]

So, it's a rough guess with, perhaps, a little enthusiastic exaggeration.

Is that so bad?

[GregMik]

Saw this on a different thread.
PS. This is not to have a go at the author

I have also seen other people referring to the pitch their bird achieved. But come on, thats balls right, how can you judge how high a bird has gone without strapping an altimeter to its back?? Saying it was a good high pitch, or holding to close, or not a as high as usual, yeah I can see that, but to assign numbers. :???: Falconers equivalent of the fish that got away.
But I am happy to be corrected.

If you fly the kite for a long period of time you can get pretty accurate on the pitch of your bird. Using the kite it is very easy to get an accurate hight.

Greg

[Lee Keating]

Saw this on a different thread.
PS. This is not to have a go at the author

I have also seen other people referring to the pitch their bird achieved. But come on, thats balls right, how can you judge how high a bird has gone without strapping an altimeter to its back?? Saying it was a good high pitch, or holding to close, or not a as high as usual, yeah I can see that, but to assign numbers. :???: Falconers equivalent of the fish that got away.
But I am happy to be corrected.


No need to guess, get a range finder!

[Matthew Patching]

Saw this on a different thread.
PS. This is not to have a go at the author

I have also seen other people referring to the pitch their bird achieved. But come on, thats balls right, how can you judge how high a bird has gone without strapping an altimeter to its back?? Saying it was a good high pitch, or holding to close, or not a as high as usual, yeah I can see that, but to assign numbers. :???: Falconers equivalent of the fish that got away.
But I am happy to be corrected.

Ill Tell you how I came up with those figures and then you will agree that they are pretty accurate. about 2 miles away from where I was flying there is a relay radio mast that is 100 foot tall, he was further than that, and cloud base was 750 foot (according to the met office) and he was in and out of cloud. So I used this as my guide.

I know you aint having a go, but when I quote height or distance, I use fixed points, and once you've been flying birds for a while you get a feel for it.

I am also told that I am way too conservative in my geustimates. But I would rather say too low than rediculously high!

All the best Matt

[JoHo]

Cool. Ok, I have never thought to check met office cloud base before or after I've been out flying. But I guess it different once you're flying high flying falcons.

ATB.
Johann

[Jack]

JoHo, this is one of the worst subjects you can talk about with long wingers. They all have a tendency to exaggerate, some more than others. There is no formula for this. Never has been, never will be. Too many variables to contend with. However, there is a way of getting close, but it is way to complicated for most falconers to grasp. So it is easier to just guess. If you were to ask 10 people just how tall a tower is, unless one of them knows exactly how high, they will give you 10 different heights. I know this because I have done it. There is a repeater tower close to me that is 195 feet tall. I have a nasty habit of asking everyone I am with when we pass it just how tall it is. I get everyting from 400 to 600 feet. But it is exactly 195 feet tall. I know this because I spoke to the man that maintains the station. He explained the sections of 10 feet each and the tower on top. It is exactly 195 feet tall. There is another tower between me and Dallas that is just over 600 feet tall, and that one gets from 1000 to 1500 feet. So I am having to assume from the way everyone guesses that they all seem to see it as higher. Whether it is just exaggeration or an honest mistake really makes no difference. It is still not accurate. 600 feet is way the hell up there, make no mistake. But it is still not 1200 feet. Hardly matters I would think.

Jack

[JoHo]

Hi Jack,

Yeah I know. The reason I posted this thread was for exactly the reasons you state. It's really hard to judge height as there is really little to compare against and the perspective makes it even harder.

JH

[Berkut]

Hi Jack,

Yeah I know. The reason I posted this thread was for exactly the reasons you state. It's really hard to judge height as there is really little to compare against and the perspective makes it even harder.

JH

Jh,
When I gamehawked falcons and later was involved when my brother kitetrained a few falcons,I found I had often underestimated pitch.
The first season I flew Cinnibar(female goldie) from the waiting on position I estimated her one day in a howling gale to be around 1200ft. After 30 or 40 attempts I got a hit on her with the rangefinder ,which is not easy as it works on a rebound from the target,and she was 648 yards up.
Neil.

[OutHawkn]

Well it really aint as difficult as some are making it out. If you are used to a kite, and you have 1000 feet of line and your bait is 50 feet below the kite and the kite is slightly off center above you, you can safely assume the bait is around 850 to 900 feet. Or if your using 2000 feet the same applies. If you see this often enough(everyday) you can come pretty darn close. At least thats my opinion.

[Jack]

Well it really aint as difficult as some are making it out. If you are used to a kite, and you have 1000 feet of line and your bait is 50 feet below the kite and the kite is slightly off center above you, you can safely assume the bait is around 850 to 900 feet. Or if your using 2000 feet the same applies. If you see this often enough(everyday) you can come pretty darn close. At least thats my opinion.
__________________
Good Hawking,
Bill

It is not that simple at all. You would have the sag factor to contend with, and the distance off vertical is always more than you would estimate. All this effects the actual pitch. The line will arc because of wind drag. This all depends upon the wind speed and the guage of the line itself. The variables are such that it is all but impossible to work out a system for making an accurate determination. All we can do is make an educated guess. Like I said, there are ways of making that determination, but it is complicated and most falconers do not grasp it. And even then it is not 100%.

Jack

[OutHawkn]

Well it really aint as difficult as some are making it out. If you are used to a kite, and you have 1000 feet of line and your bait is 50 feet below the kite and the kite is slightly off center above you, you can safely assume the bait is around 850 to 900 feet. Or if your using 2000 feet the same applies. If you see this often enough(everyday) you can come pretty darn close. At least thats my opinion.
__________________
Good Hawking,
Bill

It is not that simple at all. You would have the sag factor to contend with, and the distance off vertical is always more than you would estimate. All this effects the actual pitch. The line will arc because of wind drag. This all depends upon the wind speed and the guage of the line itself. The variables are such that it is all but impossible to work out a system for making an accurate determination. All we can do is make an educated guess. Like I said, there are ways of making that determination, but it is complicated and most falconers do not grasp it. And even then it is not 100%.

Jack

Sorry Jack, It is that simple. Why ae you trying to make it hard? There aer variables I'll agree but unless your flying in a tornado its easy to make an educated guess or at least it is by for most folk.The law of deminishing retuns will, ah ,never mind.

[Falconmastergrousebuster]

I gave up estimating pitch a long time ago.

Its either a good pitch or a poor one, thats all that really matters.

[Berkut]

I gave up estimating pitch a long time ago.

Its either a good pitch or a poor one, thats all that really matters.

Agreed.

[OutHawkn]

I gave up estimating pitch a long time ago.

Its either a good pitch or a poor one, thats all that really matters.


I like that!:supz:

[Jack]

Sorry Jack, It is that simple. Why ae you trying to make it hard? There aer variables I'll agree but unless your flying in a tornado its easy to make an educated guess or at least it is by for most folk.The law of deminishing retuns will, ah ,never mind.
__________________
Good Hawking,
Bill

I sure wish it was that easy, but that only goes back to it being an individuals best guess. I do have a system that I developed a long time ago. I loved playing with my kite and spent many the hour at it. I could come as close to making an accurate reading as it is possible. And then I would always make my best guess before doing the math. I think the FalconMaster has the right idea. As a pitch, it is or it isn't a good pitch. Hang the figures.

Jack

[OutHawkn]

Sorry Jack, It is that simple. Why ae you trying to make it hard? There aer variables I'll agree but unless your flying in a tornado its easy to make an educated guess or at least it is by for most folk.The law of deminishing retuns will, ah ,never mind.
__________________
Good Hawking,
Bill

I sure wish it was that easy, but that only goes back to it being an individuals best guess. I do have a system that I developed a long time ago. I loved playing with my kite and spent many the hour at it. I could come as close to making an accurate reading as it is possible. And then I would always make my best guess before doing the math. I think the FalconMaster has the right idea. As a pitch, it is or it isn't a good pitch. Hang the figures.

Jack

Jack, now that we can agree on! I'm buying!:supz: