Minimum land for crow-hawking

[JupeSingh]

Hi All,

I'm currently getting through Glasier and Parry-Jones by way of introducing myself to falconry. I've got Ford as well. It goes without saying that I'm also visiting this forum everyday :rolleyes:

The overall plan is to carry-on researching, go on a 5 day course with the Mrs (she wants to take part fully...very good news!) sometime next year. Then I'd be looking at building aviary/weathering are, getting equipment, finding a mentor etc. before acquiring a bird. I'm hoping to be in such a position within 2-3years. I'm the slow and steady type and like doing things properly.

I must say I've really got my heart set on flying at crows with a female Pere or PerexSaker...I partly blame Shaun and Bradley and their crow-inpsired shenanigans for this!

Although I know that a HH is what people would tell me to start with, the idea of hunting rabbits, squirrels etc with a HH really doesn't appeal to me...its aerial pursuits and stoops that get me excited. I should say i've been fascinated by falcons since I was a child - the way the look, fly and hunt has always appealed to me.

However I am trying not to get my hopes-up too high. I know that all the above means nothing unless I find suitable land to fly such a bird. Glasier makes a point of stating just how much effort falcons require. So I intend to identify land attempt to get permission before I even dream of keeping a falcon.

My question is what is the absolute bare mimimun in terms of land in a single location, acres/Miles-squared, that would be needed to fly at crows. The land would of course feature as few trees as possible, would be without telegraph poles and roads as far as possible etc.

Ps - I hear that female PerexSakers work well in smaller spaces than female Peres...and are less likely to drag you along for miles. Any first hand views regarding this.

Much appreciated.

[MattSpar]

Ps - I hear that female PerexSakers work well in smaller spaces than female Peres...and are less likely to drag you along for miles. Any first hand views regarding this.




Don't you believe it for a minute.

A female peregrine/saker of mine would regularly have flights of a mile or more.

I once slipped her at a rook and picked her up on the kill two miles away, and also slipped her at a herring gull which she caught after a flight of six miles.

Contrary to the experience of some others, I found this hybrid more suited to the big, long slips.

[Eznugud]

Contrary to the experience of some others, I found this hybrid more suited to the big, long slips

You cant argue with that.......but the male pere x saker is another ball game

[Hacker]

Agree with Matt
female perexsaker is a powerful and persistant falcon very capable of flying down quarry over distance.
As for land required, you cannot have enough!
Dependent though on quarry availabilty and you have to remember the crow/rook is an intelligent adversary and will soon recognise you and your vehicle and will exit at the very first glimpse of either.
To small an area and you will run out of crows to fly at as they will start to outwit you especially if you stick to a regular timetable.

[Martin Whitley]

Hi All,

My question is what is the absolute bare mimimun in terms of land in a single location, acres/Miles-squared, that would be needed to fly at crows. The land would of course feature as few trees as possible, would be without telegraph poles and roads as far as possible etc.

Ps - I hear that female PerexSakers work well in smaller spaces than female Peres...and are less likely to drag you along for miles. Any first hand views regarding this.

Much appreciated.
If you are trying to crow hawk on a bare minimum amount of land It is not going to be worth doing, the crows will soon get wise to you, you need to have the maximum possible to crow hawk well, I cannot suggest an area because it depnds so much on Land type, cover, and many other variables
As for Peregrine sakers had a cracking flight of nearly a mile with Morgan this evening (the crow survived by getting down a old mine working), they will drag you along for as far as they need, if you are flying a good falcon in good country it is not always going to happen on your lap.
I'm not trying to dent your ambitions and am glad you are looking into it properly before you decide to have a go.
Best thing to do would be try and find a good crow hawker in your area and tag along with them

[Hacker]

pop along to the bird and booze evenings in Thatcham Berks.
Search threads for info!

[Eznugud]

If you have the right land for it you have to go a long way to find anything more exciting than the aerial battle between a falcon and a Crow / Rook.

The land is the main ingredient, both size and type.
If you have fields surrounded by hedgerows you will still be able to hunt crows with a falcon but you will loose a lot of what it’s all about.
And like others have already said you need a hell of a lot of land, I have over 30,000 acres to go at and I sometimes struggle like hell to get a slip……
When I say struggle I could get 20 slips a day but once the falcons completely wedded to crows after about 20 kills “anything” will no longer do.

With regards to falcon, I don’t think you could go far wrong with a female pere x saker, it will adapt to whatever environment……obviously the tighter the fields the more hedgerows and trees your bag for the season will suffer.

Like Martin says you are going about it the right way……..good luck with whatever you decide to do….and don’t be afraid to ask…

Shaun

[Hacker]

Female perexsaker pound for pound the best vaule and quality that you will buy for hawking the black stuff, welcome to the dark side8-)

[JupeSingh]

Guys,

Thanks for the quality replies. Just a few follow-up questions.

- Would you say 4,000 acres is a good start, enabling someone to crow-hawk (ps - i've found that google earth is a seriously brilliant tool for scoping land; if you haven't given it a go, try and you will see what I mean).

- Shaun, I guess you're saying that a male perexsaker although smaller would be more manouverable and still well-sized to manage crows? So I guess this would make it better regarding shorter slips...? However, I'd be assuming - please tell me how and why you would choose between the male or female.

- Martin - that's exactly what I want to do - maybe going to Thatcham will get me in touch with a local crow-hawker.

- Richard, thanks for telling me about Thatcham. Believe it or not I'm a tee-totaller so pubs/booze have never been my scene...I'd feel seriously out of place. But I'll find out about Thatcham and try to go along when the guys are doing the 'birds bit' of the 'booze and birds' :lol:

[Sparrow Hawker]

jupesingh a couple more books i'd recommend, Roger Upton's Falconry Principles and Practice and Michael Woodfords Manual For Falconry have got some really good chapters on Rook/Crow Hawking.

For crows I was told you really need a bird larger than a Tiercel Peregrine to cope with them, the advice given to me (i'm new to rook hawking) was not to go for something too big otherwise you compromise on agility and they can find large falcons too intimidating. To fly peregrines you really need large expanses of land to do them justice, they don't like commiting to cover, but they are more durable in wet and windy conditions compared to sakers etc. Where peregrines fail hitting cover birds like sakers and prairies make up for it. After a lot of talking to people and a lot of advice I've opted for a hybrid female pere/saker for my first rook/crow hawk, speed, agility, durabilty, weatherproofing from the pere and aggression/bravery and tail chases from the saker, well that's what i'm hoping for anyway...!:lol:

All the best,

SH

[Eznugud]

- Shaun, I guess you're saying that a male perexsaker although smaller would be more manouverable and still well-sized to manage crows? So I guess this would make it better regarding shorter slips...? However, I'd be assuming - please tell me how and why you would choose between the male or female.

In my opinion a male pere x saker in the right hands makes a better crow hawk than a female pere x saker
Obviously you have your pros & cons but for me the male just edges it.

The male is quite a bit smaller than the female but if you can get one with a flying weight of 1lb 7oz + he his more than capable of taking and holding a crow, yes they do have a harder job on the floor and get chucked about a bit but they seem to thrive on it.
They can do whatever a female can do in open terrain and can out do a female in more enclosed terrain.
I would say the female is the faster bird once she gets going but the male will leave her standing over the first 50yds, and that’s what counts in enclosed country.
Males can also spoil flights in more open terrain by just being top bloody quick to get onto terms with the crow.

Males can also run a little hot and cold with crows, I have had 2 male pere x sakers that had tremendous first seasons but would not entertain crows in their second season and for no obvious reason.

I don’t think I would recommend a male pere x saker for a first crow falcon, that doesn’t mean you should not consider one, it just I personally wouldn’t recommend one……on the other hand I would definitely recommend a female pere x saker.

Shaun