Which is the best bird to hunt crows?

[Jaam]

Hi, guys.
Normally I Hunt crows with my female peregrine. Is certainly difficult hunt crows with this specie because is in the limit of their possibilities.
Somebody hunt crows and what bird use to hunt it.
The peregrine-saker I tihink is very good for this hunt. What do you think?
Soory by my poor Englis. Regards. Jaam.

[Berkut]

Hi, guys.
Normally I Hunt crows with my female peregrine. Is certainly difficult hunt crows with this specie because is in the limit of their possibilities.
Somebody hunt crows and what bird use to hunt it.
The peregrine-saker I tihink is very good for this hunt. What do you think?
Soory by my poor Englis. Regards. Jaam.

Jaam,
For hunting crows the peregrine/saker would be my choice.Male or female would do the job.
Regards,
Neil

[Rapt0r]

Hi, guys.
Normally I Hunt crows with my female peregrine. Is certainly difficult hunt crows with this specie because is in the limit of their possibilities.
Somebody hunt crows and what bird use to hunt it.
The peregrine-saker I tihink is very good for this hunt. What do you think?
Soory by my poor Englis. Regards. Jaam.

I have to agree that Pere/sakers are arguably the best.
Pere/prairie (f) are also pretty good....also Gyr/sakers.
Its down to preference at the end of the day.

Alex

[Puzo]

I wouldnt say f peregrines are no good for crows but a lot of people favour peregrine saker hybrids for the job.

[Matthew Patching]

I wouldnt say f peregrines are no good for crows but a lot of people favour peregrine saker hybrids for the job.

I wouldnt either, but they do rule themselves out by being very narrow minded, and realy not very flexable.

A pere wont take crows in alot of places that a hybrid will.

I have to say that I dont like gyrxsakers for crow hawking, good females are too big, and many males are the same.

The perexsaker that I am flying now, had his first crow yesterday, if he can do it at 1lb 6ish, then why would you need a big 2lb+ bird to do it, they just dominate the crows and you get no real flight.

[Kirowan]

hi matey and i agree bet crow and rook hawk pere x saker.you need a falcon with persuit hawk in it.pere maybe king and queen of the vertical stoop but sakers make the best pursuit falcons.so the 2 combined give you the best of both worlds.also pure sakers in the right climate make great corvid hawks.which country are you in?

[GoshawkRST]

What about pure sakers ? ( tiercels )
Some days ago, a master falconer replyed to me when asked his personal opinion about the saker falcon: " ... big bird, small engine ... " :lol:

Can you talk more about the Pere X Saker hibrid ? How is his temper compared to pere and sakers ?

[BarbaryHawking06]

Hi, guys.
Normally I Hunt crows with my female peregrine. Is certainly difficult hunt crows with this specie because is in the limit of their possibilities.
Somebody hunt crows and what bird use to hunt it.
The peregrine-saker I tihink is very good for this hunt. What do you think?
Soory by my poor Englis. Regards. Jaam.

Hi Jaam, I guess you are hunting with a female brookei? If you live and hunt in the open areas of Burgos any bird larger than say 800 grams should do the job well. Gyr x Sakers could do the Job but a female is way too large and as I understand in Castilla y Leon male hybrids are not allowed? Of the larger falcons Saker and Gyr tiercels would be ok but out of question due to the legislation, too. What about a large female peregrine of scandinavian ascent?
They are large and are very powerful on the wing, they can easily dispatch a crow and would be predictable in character (unlike some hybrids)

and now the same in Spanish:

Hola Jaam, supongo que estas cazando con una hembra de brookei? Si vives y cazas en los terrenos abiertos de Burgos cada halcon encima de los 800 gramos deberia hacerlo bien. Gerifalte x Sacre podrian hacerlo bien pero las hembras son demasiado grande, y si lo entendí bien los machos no estan permitidos en Castilla y Leon. De los dos halcones grandes Sacres y Gerifaltes los machos estan bien pero tampoco valen por la legislacion. Que piensas de una hembra larga de peregrino de origen escandinavico? Son muy poderosos en el aleteo y pueden matar a la corneja facilmente sin ayuda, ademas son mas predicables en character (en contrario a algunos hibridos)

[BestBeagler]

Which is he best bird to hunt crows?

The one that catches them :yawinkle: . Isaac

[Siberia]

Hi Jaam, I guess you are hunting with a female brookei? If you live and hunt in the open areas of Burgos any bird larger than say 800 grams should do the job well. Gyr x Sakers could do the Job but a female is way too large and as I understand in Castilla y Leon male hybrids are not allowed? Of the larger falcons Saker and Gyr tiercels would be ok but out of question due to the legislation, too. What about a large female peregrine of scandinavian ascent?
They are large and are very powerful on the wing, they can easily dispatch a crow and would be predictable in character (unlike some hybrids)

and now the same in Spanish:

Hola Jaam, supongo que estas cazando con una hembra de brookei? Si vives y cazas en los terrenos abiertos de Burgos cada halcon encima de los 800 gramos deberia hacerlo bien. Gerifalte x Sacre podrian hacerlo bien pero las hembras son demasiado grande, y si lo entendí bien los machos no estan permitidos en Castilla y Leon. De los dos halcones grandes Sacres y Gerifaltes los machos estan bien pero tampoco valen por la legislacion. Que piensas de una hembra larga de peregrino de origen escandinavico? Son muy poderosos en el aleteo y pueden matar a la corneja facilmente sin ayuda, ademas son mas predicables en character (en contrario a algunos hibridos)



Very good ! Could you try in Russian please ?! :lol:
Rgds,Stefan

[Kirowan]

[QUOTE=GoshawkRST;639284]What about pure sakers ? ( tiercels )
Some days ago, a master falconer replyed to me when asked his personal opinion about the saker falcon: " ... big bird, small engine ... " :lol:


what masters that he oviously knows little or nothing about sakers.try telling that to arabs who prefer sakers above all else.they may buy large hybrids etc,etc but behind every hybrid they buy is a traditional saker.yhey are very succesful falcons throughout the art of falconry only the brits forever comparing them to peregrines.one thing for sure the guy who can get the best out of a saker will cruise with a peregrine.but the guy who gets the best out of a peregrine wont always get the best out of a saker,thats the truth.

[Jaam]

Thank you very much to everybody by your answers. I think than the best option is a pere-saker,or a ger-saker.I prefer peregrine to fly but is difficult to hunt regularly this specie habitually.Yes BarbaryHawking06 I hunt crows with a female peregrine her weigh is 840graims. The hibrid of ger-saker isn´t forbidden, but probably the next years was forbidden.A female of peregrine escandinavian or pealei is too a good option but here in spain there aren´t pealeis , there are scotish and brookeis of course.

Thank´s to everybody. Sorry by my poor English.

[Viriato17]

A group of friends and I, have been taking crows with pure sakers, flying females but a large male too. It can be done. Honestly I think a gy-saker hybrid would do the job more easly, but we like sport, we do not care about efficacy.
However I would discard peregrines especially in certain terrains but the main reason is that normally once on the ground the falcon have to fight with an agressive crow, and that is saker´s element, stronger and braver than the peregrine. A few bad experiences for a peregrine and she will reject the crows for the rest of her life, and It is obvious that on the ground is in clearly disadvantage towards the crows.
The problems with sakers, in my opinion, are their lack of acceleration, slow climbing. And if not absolutely fit, they are lazy. I loose many valuable hunting days because they do not make the effort, only 5 grams could make the difference. When they succed you have to award so much. After that, sometimes due their low metabolism you can not fligh the bird on the next 3-4days.
Nick Fox accounts for an average of 60% of success with his falcons, the sakers I know when eyass account for less than 10% of efficcacy. On the other hand once introduced to crows, and with perseverance, they improove a lot, some of them become masters. I know one female killing over 40 crows per season. And that is a lot!

best regards,

[Mark Collins]

The choice is endless, for style , and speed, and a good even temperament, a very good gyr/peregrine tiercel takes a lot of beating, over the years i have flown lots of falcons and tiercels at crows/rooks and gulls, the best was a black gyr/peregrine bred by falconmews, i flew his brother also and he was just as good, strong powerful, fast, and the sweetest nature,mark.

[Stuart]

The choice is endless, for style , and speed, and a good even temperament, a very good gyr/peregrine tiercel takes a lot of beating, over the years i have flown lots of falcons and tiercels at crows/rooks and gulls, the best was a black gyr/peregrine bred by falconmews, i flew his brother also and he was just as good, strong powerful, fast, and the sweetest nature,mark.
i agree i had the brother to that bird unfortunatly he blew up on a power box and could no longer fly,mark is correct in wot he says about the male GPs but they can go off the boil example the one Iv got here that had the tick, took 3 grt blk backs last year herring gulls crows n rook but he went off the boil, dunno wot he will be like this year thats assuming he recovers from his tick illness

[Mark Collins]

Hi Stuart, i hope your birds on the mend, i have flown about 5 gyr/peregrine tiercels over the last few years, only two were special, the other 3 as you put it went off the boil after 15 or so crow kills, they need to come from a good aggressive gutsy line, its the same with f.peregrines not all peregrines make good rook hawks,mark.

[Jaam]

Hi, Mark and Stuart, thank you very much by your answers.I thought than a tiercel of ger-peregrine was too little to hunt crows, but if do you say is possible hunt crows with this bird it can be e good option.
Regards Jaam

[Stuart]

Hi, Mark and Stuart, thank you very much by your answers.I thought than a tiercel of ger-peregrine was too little to hunt crows, but if do you say is possible hunt crows with this bird it can be e good option.
Regards Jaam
try a female gyr?saker there cheap and you cant go wrong big powerful bird

[Stuart]

Hi Stuart, i hope your birds on the mend, i have flown about 5 gyr/peregrine tiercels over the last few years, only two were special, the other 3 as you put it went off the boil after 15 or so crow kills, they need to come from a good aggressive gutsy line, its the same with f.peregrines not all peregrines make good rook hawks,mark.

hes doin ok mark ate 5 chicks today his eye is better and hes no longer lathargic and hes getting baity again, may leave him on the block now to finish out the rest of his moult hes almost done

[BarbaryHawking06]

A group of friends and I, have been taking crows with pure sakers, flying females but a large male too. It can be done. Honestly I think a gy-saker hybrid would do the job more easly, but we like sport, we do not care about efficacy.
However I would discard peregrines especially in certain terrains but the main reason is that normally once on the ground the falcon have to fight with an agressive crow, and that is saker´s element, stronger and braver than the peregrine. A few bad experiences for a peregrine and she will reject the crows for the rest of her life, and It is obvious that on the ground is in clearly disadvantage towards the crows.
The problems with sakers, in my opinion, are their lack of acceleration, slow climbing. And if not absolutely fit, they are lazy. I loose many valuable hunting days because they do not make the effort, only 5 grams could make the difference. When they succed you have to award so much. After that, sometimes due their low metabolism you can not fligh the bird on the next 3-4days.
Nick Fox accounts for an average of 60% of success with his falcons, the sakers I know when eyass account for less than 10% of efficcacy. On the other hand once introduced to crows, and with perseverance, they improove a lot, some of them become masters. I know one female killing over 40 crows per season. And that is a lot!

best regards,

Sorry Viriato, but I have to disagree strongly with you a peregrine can and will master crows easily and 40 crows a season is not much. The average head count for a peregrine flown over here is around a 100 crows a season.
Do you know Jesus Galan Carrera? The sparrowhawker out of "Soltando pihuelas" He was here and witnessed it, his comment was: "These peregrines take the crow, when, where and whenever they want" Don't tell me that spanish crows are tougher or stronger it is just not true, adult crows over here weigh between 500 and 600 grams.

[Puzo]

Sorry Viriato, but I have to disagree strongly with you a peregrine can and will master crows easily and 40 crows a season is not much. The average head count for a peregrine flown over here is around a 100 crows a season.
Do you know Jesus Galan Carrera? The sparrowhawker out of "Soltando pihuelas" He was here and witnessed it, his comment was: "These peregrines take the crow, when, where and whenever they want" Don't tell me that spanish crows are tougher or stronger it is just not true, adult crows over here weigh between 500 and 600 grams.

I have to agree, it just takes a couple of kills untill the peregrine learns how to deal with her crow on the ground. Once she learns how to administer the coup de grace, she soon learns to stop wrestling with them & get a beak hold of the neck & finnish them off. If they can mannage herring & black backed gulls then a carrion crow shouldn't present too much of a problem.

[Viriato17]

Sorry Viriato, but I have to disagree strongly with you a peregrine can and will master crows easily and 40 crows a season is not much. The average head count for a peregrine flown over here is around a 100 crows a season.
Do you know Jesus Galan Carrera? The sparrowhawker out of "Soltando pihuelas" He was here and witnessed it, his comment was: "These peregrines take the crow, when, where and whenever they want" Don't tell me that spanish crows are tougher or stronger it is just not true, adult crows over here weigh between 500 and 600 grams.

dear barbaryhawking
I do not know about how many falcons do you fly on crows. I would need a denominator to calculate an stimate. But if they catch an average of 100 crows per season and supposing a high efficacy (60%), that will account for 500 slips and 300 kills each season for a small team of three falcons. I do not know where do you fly, but such achievement is worth mentioning.
I would not find such number of crows year after year even on the countryside of the Hitcthcock film "the birds". Here in Spain the crows are exactly the same than everywhere I am not discussing that point, but maybe the difference is to find them in so large numbers, year after year. The posibility to reach such number of kills is difficult except for falconers hunting on rubbish dumps, or professional falconers.
Concerning the words "when" and "where", as Mavrogordato says they are very important, I think "when" for a peregrine does not mean whenever, when will be fine for a peregrine when the crows could be catched preferably "on the sky". And where, is essential, the terrain will allow beautiful slips on the sky ideal for a peregrine, or on the contrary, the slips are going to be on the ground or cover, or not suitable for a peregrine at all.

This is a very interesting disscusion I am learning a lot, and I am very impressed.
thank you for your answers
best regards

[Eznugud]

I’ve been trying to avoid posting on the thread because the original question is basically impossible to answer.

Having flown both Saker Falcons & Peregrine Falcons at crows with success I would say that the Female Peregrine is the better of the two for crow hawking.
All this the Peregrine doesn’t like the rough & tumble on the floor with a crow is nothing more than a myth, the only reason that a peregrine would not square up to a crow on the floor is if the falconers not got her in condition, by condition I don’t mean just having her weight right.

The Saker in my mind is very sluggish off the fist and easily blown about in the wind compared to the peregrine, but if the falconer users his / her head and adapts how and where slips are taken a Saker is a formidable crow hawk and can be match for any of the larger falcons.

But given the choice, Saker or Peregrine I would go for the Peregrine every time.

Until this season my first choice for crow hawking would have been a male pere x saker, they can just turn off come their second season but when they are on form they are cracking falcons…….But having spent a lot of time helping my son with a male gyr x pere this season I’m really impressed with them…… I’ll stick my neck out a say it’s probably the best all round crow hawk I have had dealings with…….

I would however like to try a female pere x prairie fresh out of the pen; I think they are the ideal size for a crow hawk…..
But if Bradley gets his way we will be trying a Gyrkin at crows next season….

[BarbaryHawking06]

dear barbaryhawking
I do not know about how many falcons do you fly on crows. I would need a denominator to calculate an stimate. But if they catch an average of 100 crows per season and supposing a high efficacy (60%), that will account for 500 slips and 300 kills each season for a small team of three falcons. I do not know where do you fly, but such achievement is worth mentioning.
I would not find such number of crows year after year even on the countryside of the Hitcthcock film "the birds". Here in Spain the crows are exactly the same than everywhere I am not discussing that point, but maybe the difference is to find them in so large numbers, year after year. The posibility to reach such number of kills is difficult except for falconers hunting on rubbish dumps, or professional falconers.
Concerning the words "when" and "where", as Mavrogordato says they are very important, I think "when" for a peregrine does not mean whenever, when will be fine for a peregrine when the crows could be catched preferably "on the sky". And where, is essential, the terrain will allow beautiful slips on the sky ideal for a peregrine, or on the contrary, the slips are going to be on the ground or cover, or not suitable for a peregrine at all.

This is a very interesting disscusion I am learning a lot, and I am very impressed.
thank you for your answers
best regards

Hi there, I don't fly any falcon at crows as I prefer gamehawking, but I have more than one friend catching more than a 100 crows a season and in good days they catch up to 10 crows a day!! out of probably 13 flights, so yes it is efficient and success is rather limited by time than by lack of crows, they usually have permission to fly over more than 10,000 hectares each with aproximately 1000 to 2000 crows living on it, when winter comes this figures sometimes double, I just hawk crows from time to time with a friends male gos or Harris and I already killed 20 since the 1 of August. Cover is also not much of a problem as you can hawk crows in much the same way as magpies out of a waiting on flight and it will not spoil a determined falcon to take after crows in the sky. And no they are not professional falconers nor do they hunt on rubbish dumps, they are just passionate.

[Matthew Patching]

Hi there, I don't fly any falcon at crows as I prefer gamehawking, but I have more than one friend catching more than a 100 crows a season and in good days they catch up to 10 crows a day!! out of probably 13 flights, so yes it is efficient and success is rather limited by time than by lack of crows, they usually have permission to fly over more than 10,000 hectares each with aproximately 1000 to 2000 crows living on it, when winter comes this figures sometimes double, I just hawk crows from time to time with a friends male gos or Harris and I already killed 20 since the 1 of August. Cover is also not much of a problem as you can hawk crows in much the same way as magpies out of a waiting on flight and it will not spoil a determined falcon to take after crows in the sky. And no they are not professional falconers nor do they hunt on rubbish dumps, they are just passionate.

10 crows with how many falcons? And dont say one. 10'000 hectares would last you about 6 weeks when crow hawking, so what do they do for the rest of the season?

Where I come from crow hawks dont wait on, and crows dont wait for a falcon to gain the height. are you sure they are crows?

[Eznugud]

Bloody hell, its only the end of August and i`m struggling to find 1 decent slip on over 30,000 acres never mind 10 kills a day.......

[Matthew Patching]

Bloody hell, its only the end of August and i`m struggling to find 1 decent slip on over 30,000 acres never mind 10 kills a day.......

:rolleyes: :yawinkle: I was thinking the same, Im also pretty damn sure that hectares are smaller than acres? maybe Im wrong.

[BarbaryHawking06]

:rolleyes: :yawinkle: I was thinking the same, Im also pretty damn sure that hectares are smaller than acres? maybe Im wrong.

First 1 hectare is 4 acres as far as I know, second there is a huge migration of crows (carrion) from eastern Europe into central Europe when autumn comes so you start with the local ones and end up finding new and untouched flocks every day. Third, crows will hold very tight under a falcon when hard pressed, if your crows don't then it's is because the falcon does not put enough pressure on them, waiting on in this case is by no means gamehawking height but it is high enough to see a teardrop stoop.
If you have never seen anything like it does not mean it can't be done.
There is a large crow hawking field meet on the 19th and 20th of January 2008 in West Germany (about 5hrs from Calais) so if you have the balls show up with your falcon and tell us how to do it properly (last field meet 60 crows were killed in one weekend with 15 falcons and some gosses)

[BarbaryHawking06]

10 crows with how many falcons? And dont say one. 10'000 hectares would last you about 6 weeks when crow hawking, so what do they do for the rest of the season?

Where I come from crow hawks dont wait on, and crows dont wait for a falcon to gain the height. are you sure they are crows?

10 crows with one falcon of course

[Matthew Patching]

10 crows with one falcon of course

Then your mugging the **** out of them, and not producing anything like a sporting flight!

Are your mates driving up to the crows, or bating them, this would be the only way I can see 10 crows being caught with a single bird.

I am also willing to bet that the bird that is taking 10 crows a day is female, and over matched to her quarry. Large hybrid or similar.

One falcon flown sportingly would not manage 10 crows in a day.

Oh and I have the balls, but I work for a film company and we dont take holidays when on contract, it aint worth missing out on the bonus on completion!, so may have to wait until 2010,

10000 hectares is 24710 acres (I got it the wrong way round and I apoligise), still not enough to keep a team of longwings going for a full season, even if they migrate, massivly, crows are so gregarious that they rarely stick to there own flocks when the feeding is good, and so I find it hard to believe that you are coming across new flocks on a daily basis, as there will still be local crows that know the score to give the alarm out. I would have to see it to believe it, giving it large on an internet forum deosnt do it for me!

[Eznugud]

First 1 hectare is 4 acres as far as I know, second there is a huge migration of crows (carrion) from eastern Europe into central Europe when autumn comes so you start with the local ones and end up finding new and untouched flocks every day. Third, crows will hold very tight under a falcon when hard pressed, if your crows don't then it's is because the falcon does not put enough pressure on them, waiting on in this case is by no means gamehawking height but it is high enough to see a teardrop stoop.
If you have never seen anything like it does not mean it can't be done.
There is a large crow hawking field meet on the 19th and 20th of January 2008 in West Germany (about 5hrs from Calais) so if you have the balls show up with your falcon and tell us how to do it properly (last field meet 60 crows were killed in one weekend with 15 falcons and some gosses)

10 crows with one falcon of course

You my friend are 100% full of it, and its quite obvious from your post that you have not got a clue about crow hawking.......
they do say if you talk **** for long enough you will start believing it...

Regards

[BarbaryHawking06]

Then your mugging the **** out of them, and not producing anything like a sporting flight!

Are your mates driving up to the crows, or bating them, this would be the only way I can see 10 crows being caught with a single bird.

I am also willing to bet that the bird that is taking 10 crows a day is female, and over matched to her quarry. Large hybrid or similar.

One falcon flown sportingly would not manage 10 crows in a day.

Oh and I have the balls, but I work for a film company and we dont take holidays when on contract, it aint worth missing out on the bonus on completion!, so may have to wait until 2010,

10000 hectares is 24710 acres (I got it the wrong way round and I apoligise), still not enough to keep a team of longwings going for a full season, even if they migrate, massivly, crows are so gregarious that they rarely stick to there own flocks when the feeding is good, and so I find it hard to believe that you are coming across new flocks on a daily basis, as there will still be local crows that know the score to give the alarm out. I would have to see it to believe it, giving it large on an internet forum deosnt do it for me!

hahaha, lovely excuse, sorry to disappoint you but hybrids are banned so they are out of question, its just female peregrines to be used. About crows giving the alarm out, who cares do you need to get within 50 yards for a slip?
I have seen successful flights at half a kilometre and more. 10 crows is not the average daily head count it was taken on one day just to show what a single falcon can do otherwise they'd kill more than a hundred a season?!
Also none of them flies a team of longwings everyone flies just a single falcon so even if they'd find just one suitable setup on a certain day they can still produce a worthwhile flight.
For the others doubting my optical devices come over and have a look yourselve before saying it is not possible, if it is not like what I said I will shut up on this theme forever but as long as none will come over don't tell me I got no idea.
Also If I remember correctly I said at least! 10000 hectares meaning much more to be possible, on the other hand one friend of mine who flies around a local rubbish dump killed 120 crows on just 800 hectares so where is the point.

[Matthew Patching]

hahaha, lovely excuse, sorry to disappoint you but hybrids are banned so they are out of question, its just female peregrines to be used. About crows giving the alarm out, who cares do you need to get within 50 yards for a slip?
I have seen successful flights at half a kilometre and more. 10 crows is not the average daily head count it was taken on one day just to show what a single falcon can do otherwise they'd kill more than a hundred a season?!
Also none of them flies a team of longwings everyone flies just a single falcon so even if they'd find just one suitable setup on a certain day they can still produce a worthwhile flight.
For the others doubting my optical devices come over and have a look yourselve before saying it is not possible, if it is not like what I said I will shut up on this theme forever but as long as none will come over don't tell me I got no idea.
Also If I remember correctly I said at least! 10000 hectares meaning much more to be possible, on the other hand one friend of mine who flies around a local rubbish dump killed 120 crows on just 800 hectares so where is the point.

I could catch 5 crows a day on a rubbish dump with my bare hands.

With an experienced crow hawk on workable land slips of over 1/2 mile are not out of the question, day in day out.

10 1/2 mile (sorry km) would knock the wind out of any falcon, so your freind must have been mugging them, even if it was to prove a point, why would you do it? 1 or 2 decent flights at winter crows is enough for any falcon, and when you see the effort that the bird puts in on the longer flights, why would you feel the need to rob its hard earned reward, From my way of thinking the bird puts in more effort in a good flight at corvids than in any other type of hawking in europe, so removing the bird from its kill, and then expecting it to put the same effort in 9 more times is asking for trouble later on.

Crow Hawking on the continent must be much easier than in the uk, although for the life of me I cannot think why?

As for crows sitting under a falcon while the peregrine gains height, I would say that that is ******, no corvid on the planet is going to wait for a falcon to gain height. If they are that intimidated then they make of the nearest cover (anything will do as cover), they dont just freeze out of terror of the bird. Im sorry it just deosnt happen!

As for falcons waiting on at crows, I will come over and see this in 2010, at the earliest opertunity, if you would like to set this up, (as I am intrigued) send me a pm with your number and I will call you, to set this up, How deos Monday October 19th until friday October 31st 2010, sound to you?

I will book the time off on monday!

[Kevin Massey]

half a kilometre is only 500 yrds?

[Matthew Patching]

half a kilometre is only 500 yrds?

546.8 yards to be exact, and I assume that this is the slipping distance, not the area that flight covers! But with the figures quoted it may be.

[Eznugud]

hahaha, lovely excuse, sorry to disappoint you but hybrids are banned so they are out of question, its just female peregrines to be used. About crows giving the alarm out, who cares do you need to get within 50 yards for a slip?
I have seen successful flights at half a kilometre and more. 10 crows is not the average daily head count it was taken on one day just to show what a single falcon can do otherwise they'd kill more than a hundred a season?!
Also none of them flies a team of longwings everyone flies just a single falcon so even if they'd find just one suitable setup on a certain day they can still produce a worthwhile flight.
For the others doubting my optical devices come over and have a look yourselve before saying it is not possible, if it is not like what I said I will shut up on this theme forever but as long as none will come over don't tell me I got no idea.
Also If I remember correctly I said at least! 10000 hectares meaning much more to be possible, on the other hand one friend of mine who flies around a local rubbish dump killed 120 crows on just 800 hectares so where is the point.

hahaha, I don’t believe you, I think you are exaggerating a little.

Slips at half a Km in the right environment is nothing to write home about, a well made and confident crow falcon could do that day in a day out, I prefer a max of about 200 yards myself.
Where are you, Spain? For any falconer to even think about taking 10 slips at crows is in my opinion is stupidity and to push a falcon in that heat its well, nothing less that idiotic especially just to try and prove a point.

I do doubt what you are saying but I have no need to come over and see for myself, I know very well what a falcon hunting crows is capable of and I know what crows are capable of…….I really don’t think you do, I think you have heard a few stories, seen a few flights and are exaggerating a little, looks good on paper but to those who know a bit about hunting crows it’s a bit of a joke.

I hunt crows on about 30,000 acres of pretty good open land, trust me even if I wanted to and the falcon was not burnt out after the first 4 flights I would not have enough hours in the day to find 10 “decent” slips, finding crows on the land is one thing finding a worthy slip is another.

[Matthew Patching]

hahaha, lovely excuse, sorry to disappoint you but hybrids are banned so they are out of question, its just female peregrines to be used. About crows giving the alarm out, who cares do you need to get within 50 yards for a slip?
I have seen successful flights at half a kilometre and more. 10 crows is not the average daily head count it was taken on one day just to show what a single falcon can do otherwise they'd kill more than a hundred a season?!
Also none of them flies a team of longwings everyone flies just a single falcon so even if they'd find just one suitable setup on a certain day they can still produce a worthwhile flight.
For the others doubting my optical devices come over and have a look yourselve before saying it is not possible, if it is not like what I said I will shut up on this theme forever but as long as none will come over don't tell me I got no idea.
Also If I remember correctly I said at least! 10000 hectares meaning much more to be possible, on the other hand one friend of mine who flies around a local rubbish dump killed 120 crows on just 800 hectares so where is the point.

Whats up, I have given you dates when I will come over, shaun says he deosnt need to, but I am intrigued, I would love to witness a waiting on flight at crows, of course if you cannot deliver..............................

I have spoken with my boss, and will be able to come over earlier, how deos early november 2008 suit you, I will get exact dates for you on monday!.

If I dont get to see waiting on flights at crows, you pay for the trip, if I do then I will buy you a brand new peregrine!, now put your money where your balls are!

NB THIS IS NOW A LEGALY BINDING CONTRACT. I WILL HAVE MY SOLICITOR DRAW UP PAPERS AND EVERYTHING!

[Puzo]

I fly crows in winter on the fell tops in Cumbria. If I'm lucky one in three slips ends in a kill. Crows are not stupid birds. Where I used to live All I had to do was show my face out side the house, in my hawking gear & I'd be mobbed. I'm not entering the argument but I'd love to see the state of the falconer after ten flights in one day, running after kills that have got behind him downwind, never mind the falcon. I imagine the bird would be slightly peed off with nine kills & not a reward to show for it. I think mine would ****** off down-wind & get herself something decent to eat. I know you don't have to reward every kill, but ten strong flights & some crow flights last quite a while. I have seen crows killed from a stoop. Usualy when they've panicked & headed for a ditch or the lee of a wall & not quite made it.

[Belgium Military Falconer]

Hello,

On the military airfield base in Belgium we fly with a female pere/saker on crows. I have to say that this is the best bird to fly crows. We have been flying peregrines, sakers and a lot of hybrides (gerfaut/saker).

She fly on a weight of 930 grams.

Greatings
Peter

Sorry for my englisch (because i am dutch)

[Matthew Patching]

I fly crows in winter on the fell tops in Cumbria. If I'm lucky one in three slips ends in a kill. Crows are not stupid birds. Where I used to live All I had to do was show my face out side the house, in my hawking gear & I'd be mobbed. I'm not entering the argument but I'd love to see the state of the falconer after ten flights in one day, running after kills that have got behind him downwind, never mind the falcon. I imagine the bird would be slightly peed off with nine kills & not a reward to show for it. I think mine would ****** off down-wind & get herself something decent to eat. I know you don't have to reward every kill, but ten strong flights & some crow flights last quite a while. I have seen crows killed from a stoop. Usualy when they've panicked & headed for a ditch or the lee of a wall & not quite made it.

I have seen crows killed from a stoop aswell, but I havnt seen a waiting on flight at crows ever. And would love to see how it is set up, because when my birds leave the fist the crows tend to be either already leaving the floor, or they do soon after, there would be no time for the falcon to put a couple of circuits in to gain height.

I also couldnt get close enough for verticle stoops with the crows flushed off the floor. This is why I am interested. and also why I think a few porkies are being told.

What I am guessing is our freinds waiting on flight, and verticle stoop, is no more than a long slip where the falcon gains height at crows that havnt seen the falcon (or falconer), and she gets herself in close and high, and stoops at crows that are just getting up. Good set-up if you can find it. not exactly taxing on the birds.

[BarbaryHawking06]

I have seen crows killed from a stoop aswell, but I havnt seen a waiting on flight at crows ever. And would love to see how it is set up, because when my birds leave the fist the crows tend to be either already leaving the floor, or they do soon after, there would be no time for the falcon to put a couple of circuits in to gain height.

I also couldnt get close enough for verticle stoops with the crows flushed off the floor. This is why I am interested. and also why I think a few porkies are being told.

What I am guessing is our freinds waiting on flight, and verticle stoop, is no more than a long slip where the falcon gains height at crows that havnt seen the falcon (or falconer), and she gets herself in close and high, and stoops at crows that are just getting up. Good set-up if you can find it. not exactly taxing on the birds.

Sorry for the late reply, but I was busy getting a copy of a DVD that was made during the last field meets, so that even before 2008 you will be able to witness that my eyes are not wide shut and that I am not telling fairy tales.
However you are still invited to come but there is no need to buy me a peregrine I prefer barbaries anyway.
60 years ago it was thought impossible to breed peregrines, who considers this to be still the case?
If swiss falconers, who are only allowed to hunt carrion crows in their home country, come over to witness the flights and try to be competitive with their own birds, how can one think it would be bad sport?
However those who were just able to judge without seeing it, would not be welcome anymore anyway.
Crow hawking is at a high standard over here as well as goshawking, game hawking is certainly at a higher standard in the UK or in Spain but this was not the point.

[Matthew Patching]

Sorry for the late reply, but I was busy getting a copy of a DVD that was made during the last field meets, so that even before 2008 you will be able to witness that my eyes are not wide shut and that I am not telling fairy tales.
However you are still invited to come but there is no need to buy me a peregrine I prefer barbaries anyway.
60 years ago it was thought impossible to breed peregrines, who considers this to be still the case?
If swiss falconers, who are only allowed to hunt carrion crows in their home country, come over to witness the flights and try to be competitive with their own birds, how can one think it would be bad sport?
However those who were just able to judge without seeing it, would not be welcome anymore anyway.
Crow hawking is at a high standard over here as well as goshawking, game hawking is certainly at a higher standard in the UK or in Spain but this was not the point.

I will def come over, but not realy interested in a crow hawking feild meet, I can crow hawk all I want to a very good standard, all on my own, & if I tire of my own company then I have freids that I can hawk with.

What interests me is seeing proper waiting on flights at crows, now this is somthing that I have never seen, And no-one that I know of has seen it iether.

We just dont understand how you manage to keep the crows on the ground while the falcon is attaining its pitch, This is what I want to see!

[BarbaryHawking06]

I will def come over, but not realy interested in a crow hawking feild meet, I can crow hawk all I want to a very good standard, all on my own, & if I tire of my own company then I have freids that I can hawk with.

What interests me is seeing proper waiting on flights at crows, now this is somthing that I have never seen, And no-one that I know of has seen it iether.

We just dont understand how you manage to keep the crows on the ground while the falcon is attaining its pitch, This is what I want to see!

If I read through my old posts I never stated that the crows will stay on the ground?! I said it starts from the fist, the falcon puts the crows into cover (wich has to be fairly small) and after the crows are put in she gains height, that's all and if the pressure of the falcon is high enough and the falconer doesn't get too close the falcon can mount up to 300 ft, if the crows break cover early the falcon puts them back in, but if not it's usually a one stoop kill, the first crow wich gets too testy gets killed.

[BarbaryHawking06]

here is a small part how it could look like
(in this case not much of a height, but I can't offer anything better right now)
http://www.falknerei.ch/galerie/Filme/Falkenflug.mpg

[Eznugud]

Well filmed piece of video that mate……..

Thing is what you call crow hawking I call a cock up, what I’m saying is the flight that you are looking for is what happens when I have failed with regards to choosing the slip or the falcons failed to catch its crow.
Personally I would not dream of slipping with the crows so close to a tree knowing that the crows would reach it and ultimately drop on one.

I can however now see how you can notch up quite a few kills; its not exactly taxing the falcon is it?

But that said if you’re enjoying that sort of crow hawking then good luck to you...........

[Viriato17]

nice video, congratulations, want more!!!:supz: :supz:
I feel familiar with the technique, here is the same, after a pursuit the crow reach a bush or tree and the slips are semi-waiting on flights. There are also high sky flights, but only if there are open fields available, with no trees at all, even in that situation sometimes the crow lands on the ground or look foward to a sunflowers field or similar. This peregrine is preying on the ground remarkably well. I have seen no contraatack from the flock of crows, they seem scared!!

best regards

[Matthew Patching]

If I read through my old posts I never stated that the crows will stay on the ground?! I said it starts from the fist, the falcon puts the crows into cover (wich has to be fairly small) and after the crows are put in she gains height, that's all and if the pressure of the falcon is high enough and the falconer doesn't get too close the falcon can mount up to 300 ft, if the crows break cover early the falcon puts them back in, but if not it's usually a one stoop kill, the first crow wich gets too testy gets killed.

This is about as far removed from crow hawking that you can get, more akin to hedge bashing. (im not knocking hedge bashing, I have had serious fun doing it, but crow hawking it is not)

[Matthew Patching]

here is a small part how it could look like
(in this case not much of a height, but I can't offer anything better right now)
http://www.falknerei.ch/galerie/Filme/Falkenflug.mpg

And after seeing this I no longer need to come over and see it myself, I would be bored rigid, after the 1st flight.

You call this crow hawking, I call it a **** up!

I am also firmly against drive by hawking, a falcon is perfectly capable of taking crows in fair flights without being lobbed out of a moving vehicle let alone one moving at speed.

What a travesty, This is not sport, if I had to resort to this to catch crows I would buy a shotgun.

As to waiting on, I would concider this good style in a hedge hunter, but I wouldnt have even looked at those crows twice. the ground in the vid clip looks pretty open and flat, why not try proper crow hawking, I am willing to bet that you could find crows further away from cover, and then you would realy see a good flight!:lol:

[Wingless]

Another interesting thread that highlights the differences between what falconers from different countries expect. It's a nice video but give me a ringing flight any day, i too wouldn't be very happy if my falcon mugged a crow as it came out of a tree like that. It can't be classed as a waiting on flight either really... As long as everyone is enjoying themselves can't complain too much. Thanks for sharing the video. :cool:

[BarbaryHawking06]

Well filmed piece of video that mate……..

Thing is what you call crow hawking I call a cock up, what I’m saying is the flight that you are looking for is what happens when I have failed with regards to choosing the slip or the falcons failed to catch its crow.
Personally I would not dream of slipping with the crows so close to a tree knowing that the crows would reach it and ultimately drop on one.

I can however now see how you can notch up quite a few kills; its not exactly taxing the falcon is it?

But that said if you’re enjoying that sort of crow hawking then good luck to you...........

Well let me think about it again, as I am not a native English speaker, maybe I got something wrong, first you said it was impossible to do and now as you have seen just a small part of it you say it is bad sport??? Did I get you right??? If this the case then who cares about you? I certainly will never again

[Eznugud]

Well let me think about it again, as I am not a native English speaker, maybe I got something wrong, first you said it was impossible to do and now as you have seen just a small part of it you say it is bad sport??? Did I get you right??? If this the case then who cares about you? I certainly will never again

I didn’t say its bad sport, it’s a poor version of crow hawking in my opinion, but like I said in my post “if you enjoy that sort of crow hawking then good luck to you”.

Who cares about me? I cant do no wrong in my Mothers eyes mate…

Regards

Shaun