Starting a Gull/Rook Hawk.

[Mark Collins]

I replied to a quote tonight about gulls, [no offence richard] and thought i would start a thread on how i train a gullhawk/rookhawk from scratch, here goes. Lots of choice first of all , lots been written about the ideal gull./rook hawk , a good tiercel gyr/peregrine takes some beating, only trouble is there not all good, depends on the breeding, bit like peregrines there are some very good ones around , but also some very poor ones as well, i personally now go for a hybred of some discription ideally flying around 2 pound, now my thoughts behind this are as follows, lots of smaller falcons havnt got what it takes, especially with an adult carrion crow on the floor or a adult male herring gull, they fight to the death and just dont like dieing, i feel its a lot to ask for a smaller bird to come to terms with this type of quarry a larger falcon will always have the edge, smaller falcons can do well , i have had some cracking smaller falcons gyr/peregrine /tiercels, peregrine/prairies, peregrine/sakers, however i have seen more birds after say 16/17 kills go off the boil and start refussing this tough quarry, with a good sized falcon to start with you dont get this, i have had some very promising smaller falcons do just this, or say have a smaller falcon like a barbary/saker take lots of crows and gulls but get smashed up doing it, still carry on taking them but bust most of her primaries and tail doing it, also a larger bird generally kills corvids quicker and once dead all its family quickly move away , a smaller bird especially in the early days can struggle , the crow attracts attention from everywere with its distress calls and the falcon ends up with lots of probing beaks which can put off even the most promising off birds. Anyway early training , i put crow wings on to a lure and start by stooping the falcon to the lure , i then combine this with long calloffs, increasing the distance, this works well , i do it backwards and forwards increasing the distance, next i do the first, but to a dead crow , i take as much flesh and weight off the carcase as i can to make it easyer to handle and swing on a line , then i do the same but with a gull carcase , then i go over to a pole lure, if i want to fly mainly gulls i concentrate on the gull carcase, likewise with the crow, or i do both, this year i started with the crow and finished with the gull, first proper slip at gulls following the plough she caught one, its worth putting the work in , i have had falcons that when i have shown them dead crows they have been scared off them , so whats the point of trying them at crows if they wont fly dead ones !!! i try not to take much weight off a bird , the one i am flying now is already flying an ounce higher than when she started, its not so much weight its confidence, i also try to limit the slips rarely flying twice, my last tiercel gyr/peregrine went loose at 1.9 , and was still killing gulls/crows at 1.11 1/2 , if he missed he would come straight back because he new he would be fed , he would come back fron tremendous distances, and would jump off crows he had killed to get to his chicks which he prefered! if i flew him maybe twice or three times i am sure i wouldnt have been able to fly him as heavy and he certainly would not have been so obedient, my latest falcon i only fly once, in the early days if i thought she hadnt tryed hard enough i would fly her again, but i dont like doing it, some birds get fidgity in the car and start walking off the cadge and baiting with the hood on, in most cases , it means the falcons ****ed off , multyflying or flying a bird to keen will result in this , the other exception is if she can see through the hood, i always hood a bird up and give them time to settle, sometimes hooding a young falcon up half an hour before i plan to go out, this enables them to settle, properly. As regards entering i try to pick good slips were the falcons got a good chance of success, flocks are better , than singles, normally singles or pairs are mature pairs very strong and difficult for young birds , with a flock there is more of a choice, once the bird is enterd i move on to singles and small groups, to many slips at flocks can spoil a falcon as she might just be picking out the weaker ones, one off the hardest flights can be a single crow or rook in the middle of nowere , if its an adult it will do one of two things go for the nearest cover or try to outfly the falcon, this is when you can see what your bird is really made off, i have seen lots of falcons refuse this type of flight , a real class falcon will go after it and match it and with a big slice of luck go up after it, if she goes after it up into the clouds you no you have a special falcon. a lot of crowhawking can be very short flights and easy kills, rooks are a better flight and more likely to [ring up [ than crows , gulls as we all no will not put in , apart from water, its the reason i switched from rooks/crows to gulls, its a much better flight [in my opinion] in a breeze its very challenging , in a gale its damn impossible . I as i say start with gulls on the ground following the plough, they can if the work been put in be caught quite easily, it build confidence and after a few kills longer slips can be tryed, building up to flying adult gulls on passage, this is were the fun starts, most flights if the weather conditions are ok [ light winds] will be high up in front of you , the flights can drift , but they can also go around in big circles as the gull trys to ring up above the falcon, the falcon needs to learn the advantage of height and go off climbing from the start, also the falcon needs to be very fit to stay with the gull, they need lots of stamina , generally they dont need to be any keener to take gulls as they do crows, the ground work just needs to be put in, my falcon went loose at 2.2 killed her first gull after about 3 weeks off fitness training at 2.1 . and caught her last one at nearly 2.3 , if she misses before the lure is out she is on her way back looking for me she is a joy to handle and hunt , long may it continue, my apologies if i have bored the pants off anyone, its just that every so often i hear or read about falconers who have had to cut there falcons down hard to fly crows/gulls, its not always the answer. A good few years ago, i was out with a gyr/peregrine/saker tiercel , he went loose at 1.9. he refused a crow slip , its like he didnt see them and the guy i was with said cut him down he isnt hungry enough [how many times have i heard that] i cut him down to 1.8 1/2 he started jumping off the cadge in the car , would bate constanly with the hood on, i put his weight up to 1.9 he stopped the jumping in the car , i shot a crow and stooped him to it for a week, next day he caught a crow at 1.9 1/2 !!!!!!he finished the season killing 75 head , mainly rooks/crows although he did catch a few pigeons, he was bloody pigeon mad, however he finished the season at 1.10 1/2. so much for the advice , to much advise can be confusing , weight control can be critical, also feeling the keel on a falcon gives you an idea of what kind of condition the falcon is in , i have been out with guys and felt the keels on there birds and wonderd how the bird is still upright, it seems some people cant make the cross over from a shortwing to a falcon, in a lot of cases if a shotwing wont come to the fist its natural to take a bit more weight off it, although it could be the bird needs more manning also,+but generally falcons [especially peregrines] dont need to be cut so hard, they need to build muscle , and be fit and strong, more so than shortwings , cutting them hard knocks them for six , an easy mistake would be if your falcon sat in a tree , thinking it needs more weight off!!!!!!!! however it could be that its , to keen and dosnt have the strength to stay in the air or its just not fit enough, it pays to ignore quarry for a few weeks when a falcon is first loose and concentrate on getting the bird fit, anyway enough said, these are my views , and my thoughts, not contradicting anyone , its just how i see things and these are my training methods, one thing i missed out [i forgot] i kite some young falcons for gulls, cheers, mark.

[TLDWB]

Great stuff Mark, keep it coming.

Tom

[Sean]

bloody excellent post :supz: really informative

[Eggy]

great stuff mark .:supz:
atb colin

[Sharandys]

Very interesting mate.....a good read...

[hawk777]

HI mark good advice thanks, i am training a peri/saker female been stooping and long lureing her for 5 days now ,how many stoops would you say she should be doin to be fit for entering to crows ?thanks

[Bry Glass]

good post mark, i've decide i might have a go at this

[Matthew Patching]

Good read Mark, Very informative. :supz:

[Benny H]

Top stuff as usual, :supz: :supz:

[Fenlands Rescue]

One of the best posts I've ever seen on here for those moving into the " Dark Side "
Thanks.

[QTR]

great stuff mark :supz: .

Cheers, Aziz

[Turumti]

Excellent stuff Mark!!!

[Haskins]

what a thread,the best, will come very helpfull when i get my pere/saker tomorrow.

[Hardcore Hawker]

Haskins, whats happened with the Gos?

[LongVVing]

Cracking thread Mark! Very useful information it has raised some thoughts for the future for me.

Mark.

[From High Above]

what a brill thread ....and nice pics

[Stuart]

oi when did u ever own a peri/saker? but u have my full backing on ur comments

[HorseBox]

Great read well done

[Hacker]

Mark,
Good read but i have to find fault with the whole thread M8!

[Gyr]

Thanks mark, great thread and very good advise as usual. kerry.:supz:

[MnM]

A great read, keep them coming.
Mark.

[Hacker]

Mark,
Good read but i have to find fault with the whole thread M8!

Mark,
Excellent thread but as i said flawed! you need paragraphs in there m8, my eyes were going ape!!!!!!!!!!!
Trouble with getting old eh?:supz: :supz:

[Mark Collins]

Mark,
Excellent thread but as i said flawed! you need paragraphs in there m8, my eyes were going ape!!!!!!!!!!!
Trouble with getting old eh?:supz: :supz:

Sorry Richard , english wasnt a strong point for me at school, i was to busy looking out the window [birdwatching] cheers, mark.

[Wooly]

Great thread Mark, made very good reading.:supz:

[Mark Collins]

I no this thread has been on before but there was an enquiry today, this is for you haskins, i hope this helps, mark.

[Stephen]

good read as always mark
with a fit falcon you get some cracking flights as my male is out roaming the country side just now ive only had the female on them the flight 2day she was 2lb 11oz the flight lasted 5mins with a good half dozen stoops ringing up to a couple of hundred feet and over a mile in distance
a good friend also told me to get it all on video as good birds dont last long so i have
thats her on no 27
stephen

[Turumti]

Stephen,

Good looking bird you go there!! What exactly is she and what's her flying weight?

[Stephen]

Stephen,

Good looking bird you go there!! What exactly is she and what's her flying weight?

3/4 gyr /saker flying at 2lb 11

[Davie]

brilliant threaqd Mark mate great reading

[Harris]

Seeings how I'm considering the move to the darkside, That was one of the most informative posts I have read on this forum!! Keep it comming, this is what the forum is all about! :lol: :lol:

[Mark Collins]

Thanks for your comments guys, Stephen , you say you lost your tiercel, how long has he been out any sightings?

[Stephen]

Thanks for your comments guys, Stephen , you say you lost your tiercel, how long has he been out any sightings?

been out for a week
he chased a gull out and nailed it in the grounds of the local collage when the students had taken their pics and videos of him killing the gull
they pulled him of it along with the transmitter
i found the tag in the car park 30 foot from where he got the gull so my first thought was that someone had made of with him

[Benny H]

Hope you find him steve..sounded like he was coming on a treat..

[Taz]

wot a cracking thread

[Mark Collins]

been out for a week
he chased a gull out and nailed it in the grounds of the local collage when the students had taken their pics and videos of him killing the gull
they pulled him of it along with the transmitter
i found the tag in the car park 30 foot from where he got the gull so my first thought was that someone had made of with him

Hi Stephen, what a nightmare, i do hope you get him back, i lost a peri/gyt/saker f. last season , she had killed about 66 gulls , i was sure she was down on a gull after a long flight both transmitters just stopped as i was tracking her , never saw her again, mark.

[Stephen]

Hi Stephen, what a nightmare, i do hope you get him back, i lost a peri/gyt/saker f. last season , she had killed about 66 gulls , i was sure she was down on a gull after a long flight both transmitters just stopped as i was tracking her , never saw her again, mark.

thats what im afraid of not getting him back to lose such a good bird just does not bare thinking about
cheers
stephen

[Jak]

Great post mate!!

[Mark Collins]

Old post but the theory is the same ;)

[Maverick]

Hi Mark, excellent thread good sound advice.
regards
Kevin

[Adam Norrie]

Hi Mark.

I had great visions of Gull hawking this season with a female peregrine. I used gull wings on lures, but instead of stooping I used the kite for fitness. She would go up to 800 feet no problem. Time to show her Gulls, but she seemed to end up stooping at rooks/crows, we even saw her having a go at a flock of starlings. So I have switched to rooks/crows.
Maybe later in the season when her confidence has grown then I will try and switch her intentions to gulls.
Have you managed to switch from one to the other?

adam

[Stuart]

I replied to a quote tonight about gulls, [no offence richard] and thought i would start a thread on how i train a gullhawk/rookhawk from scratch, here goes. Lots of choice first of all , lots been written about the ideal gull./rook hawk , a good tiercel gyr/peregrine takes some beating, only trouble is there not all good, depends on the breeding, bit like peregrines there are some very good ones around , but also some very poor ones as well, i personally now go for a hybred of some discription ideally flying around 2 pound, now my thoughts behind this are as follows, lots of smaller falcons havnt got what it takes, especially with an adult carrion crow on the floor or a adult male herring gull, they fight to the death and just dont like dieing, i feel its a lot to ask for a smaller bird to come to terms with this type of quarry a larger falcon will always have the edge, smaller falcons can do well , i have had some cracking smaller falcons gyr/peregrine /tiercels, peregrine/prairies, peregrine/sakers, however i have seen more birds after say 16/17 kills go off the boil and start refussing this tough quarry, with a good sized falcon to start with you dont get this, i have had some very promising smaller falcons do just this, or say have a smaller falcon like a barbary/saker take lots of crows and gulls but get smashed up doing it, still carry on taking them but bust most of her primaries and tail doing it, also a larger bird generally kills corvids quicker and once dead all its family quickly move away , a smaller bird especially in the early days can struggle , the crow attracts attention from everywere with its distress calls and the falcon ends up with lots of probing beaks which can put off even the most promising off birds. Anyway early training , i put crow wings on to a lure and start by stooping the falcon to the lure , i then combine this with long calloffs, increasing the distance, this works well , i do it backwards and forwards increasing the distance, next i do the first, but to a dead crow , i take as much flesh and weight off the carcase as i can to make it easyer to handle and swing on a line , then i do the same but with a gull carcase , then i go over to a pole lure, if i want to fly mainly gulls i concentrate on the gull carcase, likewise with the crow, or i do both, this year i started with the crow and finished with the gull, first proper slip at gulls following the plough she caught one, its worth putting the work in , i have had falcons that when i have shown them dead crows they have been scared off them , so whats the point of trying them at crows if they wont fly dead ones !!! i try not to take much weight off a bird , the one i am flying now is already flying an ounce higher than when she started, its not so much weight its confidence, i also try to limit the slips rarely flying twice, my last tiercel gyr/peregrine went loose at 1.9 , and was still killing gulls/crows at 1.11 1/2 , if he missed he would come straight back because he new he would be fed , he would come back fron tremendous distances, and would jump off crows he had killed to get to his chicks which he prefered! if i flew him maybe twice or three times i am sure i wouldnt have been able to fly him as heavy and he certainly would not have been so obedient, my latest falcon i only fly once, in the early days if i thought she hadnt tryed hard enough i would fly her again, but i dont like doing it, some birds get fidgity in the car and start walking off the cadge and baiting with the hood on, in most cases , it means the falcons ****ed off , multyflying or flying a bird to keen will result in this , the other exception is if she can see through the hood, i always hood a bird up and give them time to settle, sometimes hooding a young falcon up half an hour before i plan to go out, this enables them to settle, properly. As regards entering i try to pick good slips were the falcons got a good chance of success, flocks are better , than singles, normally singles or pairs are mature pairs very strong and difficult for young birds , with a flock there is more of a choice, once the bird is enterd i move on to singles and small groups, to many slips at flocks can spoil a falcon as she might just be picking out the weaker ones, one off the hardest flights can be a single crow or rook in the middle of nowere , if its an adult it will do one of two things go for the nearest cover or try to outfly the falcon, this is when you can see what your bird is really made off, i have seen lots of falcons refuse this type of flight , a real class falcon will go after it and match it and with a big slice of luck go up after it, if she goes after it up into the clouds you no you have a special falcon. a lot of crowhawking can be very short flights and easy kills, rooks are a better flight and more likely to [ring up [ than crows , gulls as we all no will not put in , apart from water, its the reason i switched from rooks/crows to gulls, its a much better flight [in my opinion] in a breeze its very challenging , in a gale its damn impossible . I as i say start with gulls on the ground following the plough, they can if the work been put in be caught quite easily, it build confidence and after a few kills longer slips can be tryed, building up to flying adult gulls on passage, this is were the fun starts, most flights if the weather conditions are ok [ light winds] will be high up in front of you , the flights can drift , but they can also go around in big circles as the gull trys to ring up above the falcon, the falcon needs to learn the advantage of height and go off climbing from the start, also the falcon needs to be very fit to stay with the gull, they need lots of stamina , generally they dont need to be any keener to take gulls as they do crows, the ground work just needs to be put in, my falcon went loose at 2.2 killed her first gull after about 3 weeks off fitness training at 2.1 . and caught her last one at nearly 2.3 , if she misses before the lure is out she is on her way back looking for me she is a joy to handle and hunt , long may it continue, my apologies if i have bored the pants off anyone, its just that every so often i hear or read about falconers who have had to cut there falcons down hard to fly crows/gulls, its not always the answer. A good few years ago, i was out with a gyr/peregrine/saker tiercel , he went loose at 1.9. he refused a crow slip , its like he didnt see them and the guy i was with said cut him down he isnt hungry enough [how many times have i heard that] i cut him down to 1.8 1/2 he started jumping off the cadge in the car , would bate constanly with the hood on, i put his weight up to 1.9 he stopped the jumping in the car , i shot a crow and stooped him to it for a week, next day he caught a crow at 1.9 1/2 !!!!!!he finished the season killing 75 head , mainly rooks/crows although he did catch a few pigeons, he was bloody pigeon mad, however he finished the season at 1.10 1/2. so much for the advice , to much advise can be confusing , weight control can be critical, also feeling the keel on a falcon gives you an idea of what kind of condition the falcon is in , i have been out with guys and felt the keels on there birds and wonderd how the bird is still upright, it seems some people cant make the cross over from a shortwing to a falcon, in a lot of cases if a shotwing wont come to the fist its natural to take a bit more weight off it, although it could be the bird needs more manning also,+but generally falcons [especially peregrines] dont need to be cut so hard, they need to build muscle , and be fit and strong, more so than shortwings , cutting them hard knocks them for six , an easy mistake would be if your falcon sat in a tree , thinking it needs more weight off!!!!!!!! however it could be that its , to keen and dosnt have the strength to stay in the air or its just not fit enough, it pays to ignore quarry for a few weeks when a falcon is first loose and concentrate on getting the bird fit, anyway enough said, these are my views , and my thoughts, not contradicting anyone , its just how i see things and these are my training methods, one thing i missed out [i forgot] i kite some young falcons for gulls, cheers, mark.


Hi Mark I agree with a lot of what you say, ie rooks make better flying than crows, dont agree with gull hawking making better flights though, I think they are a lot easier for a longwing to catch, you only need to fart next to a gull and its got a 100 feet of gain in height straight away, on a calm day no water nearby a fit falcon will kill almost daily, just my opinion I think corvids are a lot harder more manoverable and much fitter most of the gull flying is aided by wind, now if we are talking blk headeds thats a different story, the only way Iv seen blk headeds caught is falcon above and stooping it down to the ground, Iv perhaps seen this style of flight nomore than a dozen times and as always been with a male GP and once or twice with a male P/Saker male Gps going off the boil totally agree, reason I will never fly one again, I think with the gull hawking its perhaps just a lot more spectacular seeing a bird with a 5 foot wingspan being pulled out the sky a few 100 feet up, regarding sex to big can be itimidating 2lb is a good weight but you remember my male P/saker he made a better rookhawk than 3 female P/sakers I had and he flew @ 1lb 7 1/4 oz kentish bred, duno whether you have spoken to Greg lately he has been going out rook hawking with a fella on the plains who has caught 100s of rooks with success with a Tiercel Peregrine I know his name but not gonna mention it on here, if he spots one crow amongst a flock of rooks he wont slip the Tiercel. Your training methods are spot on you inspired me to use a pole lure although I have not used one for a while now. I know you like your tribrids and yes they are great Iv had a couple myself perhaps you should try a 5 8ths fem, g/sakers I despise them when it comes to manning up in the 1st season 3 seasons on mate she is awsome gale force winds today took a chance crow in the bag ATVB Stu

PS I always end on one kill with a longwing makes a far better bird

[Pearl]

always a pleasure to read your post and threads mark as ive said before your always at the top of your game ,

all the very best mate

[1ABHawker]

great post mark.

[Mark Collins]

Hi Stu,missed your call today, i still like gull hawking,never caught a black back,we dont get them down here, but herring, and common in a wind is exciting, the flights go on longer , even in fairly open country ,the local crows are looking for the nearest cover so gulls it is,in fact we havnt to many rooks local either , used to take quite a few years ago but these days see lots more crows,cheers,mark.

Hi Mark.

I had great visions of Gull hawking this season with a female peregrine. I used gull wings on lures, but instead of stooping I used the kite for fitness. She would go up to 800 feet no problem. Time to show her Gulls, but she seemed to end up stooping at rooks/crows, we even saw her having a go at a flock of starlings. So I have switched to rooks/crows.
Maybe later in the season when her confidence has grown then I will try and switch her intentions to gulls.
Have you managed to switch from one to the other?

adam

Hi Adam, i have had falcons switch ,it seems to be a confidence thing, first was a gyr/peregrine he had caught about 15 crows , slipped him at a mixed flock he killed a gull after a long flight in fact he killed it in the next valley,took me 1/2 hour to find him,he went both after that, eva my present gullhawk was enterd on crows then swiched to gulls,now i fly just gulls , after your falcon has killed 15 or so corvids get a dead gull and feed her on it, long luring etc , they cross over quite quick,good luck,mark.

[Adam Norrie]

Thanks Mark.

Seems ironic really, just got my Gull licence through for the three species I encounter and she switches to the black stuff. Still, it's there for the future. I prefer the gulls for the same reason as yourself, they will only put into water therefore the flights will go on a lot longer. The corvids she has flown have gone straight for the cover and seeing as it is a long way from the slip I cant get there quick enough to evict it. She is like your falcon, she will come back straight away, given the lure, end of day. I did try twice to look for another but she was not happy and jumped around in the hood, so I now finish straight away.

Keep the reports coming i really enjoy reading them, especially when the flight is described in detail.

adam

[09Spar09]

when your falcons make a kill do you feed it up on it and if so do you give them there daily rations or finnish off with chicks or do you find it puts them out of condition?

[Adam Norrie]

Hi Bob.

When mine caught the easy crow she had it all plus chicks. She could not eat any more. Next day she was only 1/4 0z over weight. She is one of those falcons that sits on her block and pumps her wings all day. I am surprised she keeps any weight on her at all. I will always feed up on the warm rook/crow, all she wants. Then the next day we dont fly.

[09Spar09]

Hi Bob.

When mine caught the easy crow she had it all plus chicks. She could not eat any more. Next day she was only 1/4 0z over weight. She is one of those falcons that sits on her block and pumps her wings all day. I am surprised she keeps any weight on her at all. I will always feed up on the warm rook/crow, all she wants. Then the next day we dont fly.


thanks for the reply adam,just got mine up to entering stage and dont want to make any mistakes.atb bob

[Adam Norrie]

We all feel like that Bob. I plan on feeding my Falcon up on her first five, at least. She should then know what it's all about. It's just finding the right slip to start her off. What falcon are you flying?

adam

[09Spar09]

We all feel like that Rob. I plan on feeding my Falcon up on her first five, at least. She should then know what it's all about. It's just finding the right slip to start her off. What falcon are you flying?

adam

female pere/saker

[Adam Norrie]

Good luck Bob, hope you have a very good season.

adam

[09Spar09]

Good luck Rob, hope you have a very good season.

adam
thanks mate and so do i,atb bob

[CotswoldRedtail]

Always a pleasure to read your thoughts Mark. I'm starting off a 3/4 Pere Saker on rooks this year which George (Fenlands Rescue) Has very kindly loaned to me. I've trained rook hawks before but this is a second year bird who was only flown to the lure last year so it will be interesting to see how much success we have with her. I'll be using much of the method as you describe so it will be interesting to see if this also works on un entered second year birds.
cheers, Ash

[Mark Collins]

Hi Ash ,best of luck,use plenty of carcases if you can ,try to build up her aggression,mark.

[CotswoldRedtail]

thanks mark. yeah the carcasses won't be a problem, and her aggression is there just directed the wrong way at the moment (i.e. at me!) but she is an imprint. :roll:

[Tobo]

Hello

I am thinking to fly 1/4 gyr/saker on crows. Should I buy male or female?

Would be biger percentage of gyr more suitabla than 1/4 ?

Thanks

[Mark Collins]

Hello

I am thinking to fly 1/4 gyr/saker on crows. Should I buy male or female?

Would be biger percentage of gyr more suitabla than 1/4 ?

Thanks

These days i tend to fly crow falcons around the 2 pound mark [flying weight] they have the weight and strength to handle the bigger adult crows,not saying smaller birds cant do it they can ,but young falcons can and do get put off,a friends falcon hunting at just over 2 pound got a right hiding of a crow about 4 weeks ago,she refused them for days, she needed carcases and a slight weight reduction to get her going again, now she is back on track,young birds especially can get put off,mark.

[Jak]

These days i tend to fly crow falcons around the 2 pound mark [flying weight] they have the weight and strength to handle the bigger adult crows,not saying smaller birds cant do it they can ,but young falcons can and do get put off,a friends falcon hunting at just over 2 pound got a right hiding of a crow about 4 weeks ago,she refused them for days, she needed carcases and a slight weight reduction to get her going again, now she is back on track,young birds especially can get put off,mark.

Have you ever flown much over the lb2 mark, if so how did you get on?

[Mark Collins]

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/markcollins-photo/AFALCON3.jpg

I flew a female gyr/saker/peregrine,she flew around 2pound 7oz,once up to full fitness she was awsome,very powerful falcon ,she caught a good number of crows and gulls,she really could eat up the sky, they need to be flown ideally in very open country,mark.

[Barnaby]

took me a wiel but a nies post to reed to wind dawn after a niet at werk thanks for puting that up

[Jak]

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac308/markcollins-photo/AFALCON3.jpg

I flew a female gyr/saker/peregrine,she flew around 2pound 7oz,once up to full fitness she was awsome,very powerful falcon ,she caught a good number of crows and gulls,she really could eat up the sky, they need to be flown ideally in very open country,mark.

Is that the only down side that you have found with the larger birds that they need more sky?

[Mark Collins]

Couple of things, they eat the sky up as i say ,also they have a wider weight range ,can be more tricky to get it right,especially if its a tame bird,mine was killing crows/gulls to start at 2.9, but was much more responsive at 2.7.mark.

[Jak]

i think this gyr/saker i have just got is going to be around the lb2 3-5oz once she gets going

[Mark Collins]

Good luck with her, one thing i will say jak is its far better to start as soon as you can, once you get into october [not far away] the weather can change ,its darker quicker in the evenings and all the crows/gulls are strong on the wing ,better to get a bird going early august get it trained ,get it fit, get it enterd,then you can progress with the wild quarry,crows are strong on the wing now,all the silly youngsters no how to fly,its much harder now than it was. However i wish you well, atb,cheers,mark.

[Jak]

ok mate i can see what you mean thanks for the sound advice pall shouldnt be too long now till shes up and on it. just been giving her a skinned and gutted DOC a day to try and get the weight off and get some response out of her shes been drooping 1/2 to 3/4 oz a day. anymore tips?

[Mark Collins]

Hi Jak, put wings on the lure of the desired quarry , saves time later,cheers,mark.

[Dan Bray]

Great thread this Mark. I will definatly give a falcon a go one day on corvids and gulls. I'm loving flying the gos at them but a falcon with the stamina to carry the flight on longer must be awesome to watch.
What are straight sakers (female) like for them.

[Mark Collins]

Hi Dan, never flown a straight saker at pursuit ,but no reason why they shoudnt do ok,mark.

[Goldie]

Hi Mark, nice to see this old thread re-surfacing :lol:

What has your experience been if you are flying an imprint as opposed to PR ?
Do you encounter any negatives with the imprint when cutting weight back to get them keen enough, aggression/noise etc. ?

Jim

[Mark Collins]

Hi Jim, an imprint wouldnt be my first choice , i would fly pr ,however the exception would be if i could tamehack for a big chunk of the time, landfill work is perfect for this , young falcons mature a lot quicker the more they are out at hack,and most enter by themselves , its much differant than imprinting a falcon for game,i dont do landfill work any more ,but tamehack falcons local to me , but it can be hard work,lots of time in the field with the falcon for instance asleep on the bonnet!!!

[Spar46]

Great thread alot of valuable information. keep it coming.

[Mike Liverpool]

Great thread, very informative, thanks for posting.

have u flown a pere - gry\saker f before? if so how did u find it?

would you prefer a female pere\saker or pere gry\saker f, for corvids and gulls?

thanks

[Adam Norrie]

Hi mike.

Have you thought about a Straight Peregrine?

adam

[Mike Liverpool]

Hi mike.

Have you thought about a Straight Peregrine?

adam

hi adam

no i havnt to be totally honest, ive always thought a pere/saker would be ideal, i maybe wrong but ive always thought a straight pere would be more for gamehawking, rather than off the fist?....wot u think?
Mike

[Adam Norrie]

Hi Mike,

I have a straight female peregrine this season for flights at rooks/ crows. She has proved excellent at them. This being her first season I couldn't ask any more from her.
She even crashes into bushes like a goshawk.
I have my views on hybrids, but I keep them to myself, but I would never turn down a day out to watch another falconer flying one. I have seen several flying and enjoy watching. But thats it.
As you will be able to see when looking through all the threads on pursuit hawking, the mention of a straight peregrine is very limited.
Hybrids will be successfull as will straight peregrines.

adam

[Dan Bray]

Just a quick question for those who have flown both a pure pere and a pere/saker at corvids. What does the saker bring to the pere in pere/saker?

[Stuart]

HI mark good advice thanks, i am training a peri/saker female been stooping and long lureing her for 5 days now ,how many stoops would you say she should be doin to be fit for entering to crows ?thanks

get it doing 50 then kite train it

Just a quick question for those who have flown both a pure pere and a pere/saker at corvids. What does the saker bring to the pere in pere/saker?

aggresion

[SBaldwin]

So are you trying to say that pure peregrines are not aggressive enough for crows.....unlike saker/peregrines please be serious:rolleyes:

[Stuart]

So are you trying to say that pure peregrines are not aggressive enough for crows.....unlike saker/peregrines please be serious:rolleyes:

no I didnt say that maybe I should of said the saker adds a bit more aggresion, every p/saker iv had iv entered no problem only ever had 1 female peregrine and it was useless and no Im not slating pure peres I know there is a lot more skill and fieldcraft involved to get a really good rook hawk with a pure bred and since i aint got the time or space i chose to leave them well alone, lets face to be honest how people are out there doing proper rook hawking ie not crows spring rooks.

[Greg]

Peregrines are great Crow hawks, I used them for many years! My last Peregrine is in a breeding pen and if nothing comes of it this year she is back out and on the team!

[Greg]

A few photos of my Peregrine I have a lot more!

[Stuart]

Peregrines are great Crow hawks, I used them for many years! My last Peregrine is in a breeding pen and if nothing comes of it this year she is back out and on the team!

Nice one greg atb

[Adam Norrie]

You have made my day Greg. Cracking photos. I do like to see a Peregrine on rooks/crows. She is a beauty for sure.

Stuart. Why after doing 50 stoops to the lure would you want to go to the kite? If a falcon is'nt fit enough after that many stoops then something is wrong. Either lure train or kite train.

A peregrine that is well made will have plenty of aggression, as I have said mine will plummit into thorn bushes after her quarry. Plenty of times I have had to pull apart the bush to get her out.

It seems the hybrid is the first choice these days?

adam

[Mike Liverpool]

well in all honesty id never off considered a pure pere for the job, but if i do take the plunge into the crow hawk, ill re consider my choice weapon of choice now.. thanks adam

[Stuart]

You have made my day Greg. Cracking photos. I do like to see a Peregrine on rooks/crows. She is a beauty for sure.

Stuart. Why after doing 50 stoops to the lure would you want to go to the kite? If a falcon is'nt fit enough after that many stoops then something is wrong. Either lure train or kite train.

A peregrine that is well made will have plenty of aggression, as I have said mine will plummit into thorn bushes after her quarry. Plenty of times I have had to pull apart the bush to get her out.

It seems the hybrid is the first choice these days?

adam

nothing wrong with two forms of fitness Adam could even incorporate the pole lure and long call offs into the fitness training, and a dead rook on a kite if you want ringing flights make sense to me, and a peregrine crashing into cover aint really a stylish flight is it? dont get me wrong Im not slating you here I had a male P/saker used to do the same, remember once climbing a tree to get to him, can remember Grant Hagger saying that he was destined to die the way he used to crash into trees ATB Stu

[Adam Norrie]

Hi Stuart.

Sorry, but I dont understand what you mean by a Peregrine crashing into cover is'nt stylish?

The crashing into cover comes at the end of a flight not at the start. I would'nt expect a falcon when after flying a rook/crow for some time to pull away because it has entered cover. Couldn't imagine flying a crow that is already in cover.

Regarding the lure and kite, I think all the fitness work can be over done. A falcon doing 50 passes to the lure is, for me, ready to enter.

A falcon that has been on the kite for 1-2 weeks is ready to enter. I know we all have our own ways of doing things, but when fit they need to be chasing quarry as soon as possible.



adam