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Falkeeno
19-09-2007, 03:24 PM
Hi people,just reading Nick foxes book,Understanding the Bird of Prey.Paragraph regarding bells,he recomends a neck bell rather then a leg bell for hawks,along with a tail bell also.Just wondering how many of you use a neck bell on your hawks,"pro,s n cons" for this method ???:roll:

GoodFooter
19-09-2007, 04:07 PM
I guess Nick's arguement ''for'' neck bells would be 1) they are loud when on a kill, 2) less likely to get caught if fitted well.

My reason for not using one is simple.....if a leg bell catches...the legs of hawks are designed to take some impact at speed.....if a neck bell were to catch ( albeit less likely) the neck isnt....rubber band or not at 50mph will hit its max stretch pretty quickly.....would have thought a neck bell more suitable for a longwing.

I'd be quite happy with just a tail bell and telemetry.

Interested to know if others use them.???

Rob

Grey_Squirrel_Hawker
19-09-2007, 04:22 PM
I guess Nick's arguement ''for'' neck bells would be 1) they are loud when on a kill, 2) less likely to get caught if fitted well.

My reason for not using one is simple.....if a leg bell catches...the legs of hawks are designed to take some impact at speed.....if a neck bell were to catch ( albeit less likely) the neck isnt....rubber band or not at 50mph will hit its max stretch pretty quickly.....would have thought a neck bell more suitable for a longwing.

I'd be quite happy with just a tail bell and telemetry.

Interested to know if others use them.???

Rob

very thing elastic band with a nick in it mabey? as soon as any streach on it it will snap. if a leg gets snagged it could do alot of dammage at speed

GoodFooter
19-09-2007, 04:34 PM
very thing elastic band with a nick in it mabey? as soon as any streach on it it will snap. if a leg gets snagged it could do alot of dammage at speed

you could argue that a bewit could be ''nicked'' to create a weak link if that was of concern.....but I dont know of any broken legs from bells.....( nor necks but I know hundreds of peeps who use leg bells, none using neck bells).

the noise of a neck bell whist a bird plucks must be great but if the bird isnt on a kill it still waggles its tail so.....tail bell for me all the way. like your weak like idea so may 'nick' the leather on the tail bell.

JGH1304
20-09-2007, 09:31 AM
Neck bells seem a bit dangerous to me. I donít like my birdís legs being cluttered so a tail bell on a plectrum for me.

Merger
20-09-2007, 10:31 AM
I tried a neck bell on a coopers hawk, about 15 years ago,, the following morn, the bird was led on the the floor, with its talon trapped, over the band, almost dead!! never used one again but i no others have never had a problem...its realy a case of personal choice..

Talon
20-09-2007, 11:56 AM
i suppose a lot depends on what bird it is to be used on.
but personaly wouldnt use one. as allready pointed out accidents can happen
a well fitted tailbell would do the job, so i would leave it to the donkeys on the beach
to wear bells around there necks.;)

AccyFalcons
20-09-2007, 07:27 PM
i flew my female kestrel with a neck bell on but when she was on a kill(starling) she did some times get a toe stuck in the band.so personally i dont think there any good for short wings or long wings.a mate of mine flew a perlin with a transmitter on a band around the neck but he soon changed to a harness because of similar reasons to why i took the bell off my kestrel.
ATB chris

Perebrine
21-09-2007, 07:56 AM
I tried a neck bell on a coopers hawk, about 15 years ago,, the following morn, the bird was led on the the floor, with its talon trapped, over the band, almost dead!! never used one again but i no others have never had a problem...its realy a case of personal choice..

The Idea of the rubber band is that you can remove them when not hunting.
John B

Barkai
15-07-2008, 03:24 AM
Hi,

If used properly a neck bell and a tail bell is best. i flew my Shikra with one on threw thick cover also two gabars with them on through the same cover.


Regard
Stephen

Barkai
12-01-2009, 07:06 PM
I guess Nick's arguement ''for'' neck bells would be 1) they are loud when on a kill, 2) less likely to get caught if fitted well.

My reason for not using one is simple.....if a leg bell catches...the legs of hawks are designed to take some impact at speed.....if a neck bell were to catch ( albeit less likely) the neck isnt....rubber band or not at 50mph will hit its max stretch pretty quickly.....would have thought a neck bell more suitable for a longwing.

I'd be quite happy with just a tail bell and telemetry.

Interested to know if others use them.???

Rob

Neck bells are great on gabars, the rubber band must be nicked so that it is heald only by a small strand and then if it ever catches (very unlikely) it will snap instantly. I flew a gabar and a shikra both with neck bells, and nether of them ever caught even in very thick thorny scrub. I have however had leg bells catch up three time and don't like them.

Barkai
12-01-2009, 07:09 PM
I guess Nick's arguement ''for'' neck bells would be 1) they are loud when on a kill, 2) less likely to get caught if fitted well.

My reason for not using one is simple.....if a leg bell catches...the legs of hawks are designed to take some impact at speed.....if a neck bell were to catch ( albeit less likely) the neck isnt....rubber band or not at 50mph will hit its max stretch pretty quickly.....would have thought a neck bell more suitable for a longwing.

I'd be quite happy with just a tail bell and telemetry.

Interested to know if others use them.???

Rob

Some of us cant afford telemetry and it also spoils the sport, it can hardly be called falconry with all of these new inventions.

The traditional way works well. (I do use anklets though, because it is smart)

Sean D
12-01-2009, 07:16 PM
Some of us cant afford telemetry and it also spoils the sport, it can hardly be called falconry with all of these new inventions.

The traditional way works well. (I do use anklets though, because it is smart)

Can you please explain how Telemetry spoils the sport

Phoenix 1
12-01-2009, 07:50 PM
Since my fhh pulled out a deck feather with a tail bell i have been flying her with a neck bell on a thin elastic band and as she is in the habit of dragging her prey into any thick cover even to the extent of coming down out of a tree to hide in brambles so there is the constant ringing of the bell as shes plucking her prey and shes quickly found. I have never had any problems in the mews as I only put the bell on her while out hunting and so in essence only wears it under supervision and as she is the type of bird who constantly pulls at bells jesses etc I feel she finds it less stressfull just wearing anklets and backpack in the mews neither which seem to bother her on the downside it could be possible to lose quite a lot of bells in a season because the bands do break I have lost 3 this season and always carry a spare band and bell obviously I only use cheap lahores because I dont need to have my bells last long.also I fly my lanneret with a tail bell as falcons are stooping head first at prey which would possibly be dangerous with a neck bell but short/broadwings are going in feet first so a neck bell could be less harmfull I am not advocating anybody using a neck bell without some serious consideration of any possible drawbacks but its what works for me for this one particular bird.

Barkai
12-01-2009, 08:59 PM
Can you please explain how Telemetry spoils the sport

Well I guess I was harsh, it spoils the sport for me since having telemetry would make me lasy about training the hawk, I think it does though for a lot of beginners who have not yet learned how to do it with out telemetry and relies on it.

A1Gos
12-01-2009, 09:11 PM
Try finding a gos on a pheasant half a mile away without telemetry.. Back to the bells, i have used neck bells on goshawks useing elastic from party hats... Pete.

FalconGriff
12-01-2009, 09:17 PM
I have used neck bells for both telemetry and bells for donkeys years and never once had one catch in anything or break. Use large but very thin rubber band, they sit right under the feathers. To remove just pull the bell and snip the band. I used to worry about them but after so many years with no trouble I don't any more. In fact I have had a lot more trouble from close rings as twice I have had a bird catch the ring on barb wire when it flew close chasing both times the bird was laid up for a long time till the strained leg recovered. Oh yes, on both times the bird was wearing the correct size ring!

Jack
13-01-2009, 02:23 AM
I can not even start to count all the lost deck feather I have seen that were pulled due to telemetry or a bell. Or both. Never seen one killed by a neck bell, but have had a few get tangled up and pull it off. Gets expensive after a while. I have never seen a one legged hawk though. Not from a bell anyway. Or telemetry. I use a tiny snap on for attaching either one, and always on the left leg. Never the right.

Jack

Tim Laycock
13-01-2009, 02:42 AM
To me the fit of a neck bell should be under or mostly under the hawks mail and sitting in the recess between the clavicles out of harms way.

As a hawk on a kill begins to fill its crop the bell soon becomes fully exposed and more audiable.

To me a neck bell is nothing more than a primative way of locating a hawk cropping up in cover not a "random locator" as with any other bell fitment.

I see pictures of hawks with neck bells hanging in the breeze while flying and cringe, wrongly fitted they are deadly.

OutHawkn
13-01-2009, 03:09 AM
telemetry and it also spoils the sport, it can hardly be called falconry with all of these new inventions.



Woo Hoo! Thats two of us..................:supz:

OutHawkn
13-01-2009, 03:11 AM
I can not even start to count all the lost deck feather I have seen that were pulled due to telemetry or a bell. Or both. Never seen one killed by a neck bell, but have had a few get tangled up and pull it off. Gets expensive after a while. I have never seen a one legged hawk though. Not from a bell anyway. Or telemetry. I use a tiny snap on for attaching either one, and always on the left leg. Never the right.

Jack

I have to agree with you Jack. Seems like I'm always reading about a deck feather getting pulled out and then folks wondering why.....:supz:

Barkai
14-01-2009, 07:04 PM
Woo Hoo! Thats two of us..................:supz:

So you think the same thing? I like to train my hawks the way the Pakistani do, with all of the same equipment, although I do use anklets because it is very wise. I fly passage hawks so if I cant find a goshawk that is a mile away with out tele on then it is a lost hawk and I start over, that is as long as it has no equipment on that could hang it up or injure it in some way. Plus I have never had a accipiter go even half a mile away from me.
Cheers mate,
Stephen

OutHawkn
14-01-2009, 10:54 PM
So you think the same thing? I like to train my hawks the way the Pakistani do, with all of the same equipment, although I do use anklets because it is very wise. I fly passage hawks so if I cant find a goshawk that is a mile away with out tele on then it is a lost hawk and I start over, that is as long as it has no equipment on that could hang it up or injure it in some way. Plus I have never had a accipiter go even half a mile away from me.
Cheers mate,
Stephen

Hi Stephen

Yes , I dont much like telemetry. Being a falconer in this time and place I am surrounded with technology day in and day out. Everywhere you turn its all about computers and technology. It has its place dont get me wrong. Like when I tore my shoulder up and had to have surgery. I'm glad I live in a world where that can be fixed. But...I like the accomplishment of trapping a passage bird, training it, and hunting it.And the beauty of teaching a wild bird to trust me. And I it.! I use falconry to escape the rat race, but thats just me. I dont care if others do use it. I use it on non-native birds. But passagers...are my true love....

Barkai
15-01-2009, 05:15 PM
Hi Stephen

Yes , I dont much like telemetry. Being a falconer in this time and place I am surrounded with technology day in and day out. Everywhere you turn its all about computers and technology. It has its place dont get me wrong. Like when I tore my shoulder up and had to have surgery. I'm glad I live in a world where that can be fixed. But...I like the accomplishment of trapping a passage bird, training it, and hunting it.And the beauty of teaching a wild bird to trust me. And I it.! I use falconry to escape the rat race, but thats just me. I dont care if others do use it. I use it on non-native birds. But passagers...are my true love....

Spot on mate,
very well said.