Russian x Finnish price range

[Joey]

a freind of mine has just purchased a female pure finnish and he is about to buy a male russian cross finnish but he was asking what are the price range the bird is first year and is sitting at 2lb 5 fat weight could anyone help with what the price range





joey

[OutFlying]

£800 - £1000, same fat weight as a decent finnish male.

[Joey]

nice one jim this guy wants 1500 for the male i thought it was a bit pricey myself



joey

[OutFlying]

Joey,
If it's this years and still fat and not being flown then you couldn't give it to me for free , finnish / russian or any cross.

Jim.

[RedNoseK9]

well said jim i dont understand why people want to cross and why arent there any russian birds about just crosses?

[Joey]

he just wants it for breeding i think



joey

[Tim Laycock]

Joey,
If it's this years and still fat and not being flown then you couldn't give it to me for free , finnish / russian or any cross.

Jim.

:supz:

he just wants it for breeding i think

joey

These days there is little point in breeding from a Goshawk that has never done anything special or even proven itself
(Just an observation)

[AlexB]

:supz:



These days there is little point in breeding from a Goshawk that has never done anything special or even proven itself
(Just an observation)

Good point there Tim, just because it may be a big tiercel doesn't mean it will have hunting pedigree. I would far rather have a bird from proven hunting stock any day of the week.

Would be better having a bird like Flynn on here with size and proven ability.

Alex

[Hawkmaster]

My Finnish male is 2lb 7 fat weight so what does the Russian cross add to the bird for the extra cost?

[AlexB]

My Finnish male is 2lb 7 fat weight so what does the Russian cross add to the bird for the extra cost?

Nowt or at least it shouldn't be coz in esence they are the same bird unless there is albidus in there. Big Finnish Tiercel should have the same price tag as a Big Russian Tiercel, if you cross them the price should be no more expensive if anything should be a bit cheaper as you wont definately get the max size out of either part of the breeding. IMHO.

Alex

[GoodFooter]

My Finnish male is 2lb 7 fat weight so what does the Russian cross add to the bird for the extra cost?

equally there are plenty of people with ''finish'' males which are a damn sight smaller than yours......there was a time when finish meant your were likely to get a big goshawk with reasonable temperement now what does 'finish' mean?? Russian to me is as meaningless as finnish. Gosses should be bought on performance,size and, to upset some folks, looks ( white gosses)
A sizable bird like yours if it performs and throws sizable young should command the same price as a 'Russian' of equal size. The only russian I have seen was big.....and throws young which perform so the term russian does distinguish them from the 'finnish' which i think have been watered down. New genes from a sizeble gos will be popular

so to answer your question.....nothing, other than opening a new genepool.

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

this is a post about prices,,
and already i have seen somone made a post regarding quality,
price should vary along with quality,, no?
i recently spoke with somone who has a "'PURE FINNISH" tiercel,,
that flies at 24 ounces,,
the breeder he got the bird from' regularly sells his birds for upwards of 2,500 dollars,,,(and this is in the united states)
now,, i know that size doesnt make the bird,, but,, nobody would knowingly pay an enourmous amount of money for a bird ,that was the same size(or smaller) as the one you could get out of the tree for free,,,
in my opinion,, birds this small should be noted,, and his entire pedigree should be reviewed,,, and the entire line, scrutinized and watched closely,,,
unless the bird proves himself to be a legandary gamehawk,, i wouldnt allow his genes to be passed on,,
and in fact,, i would be searching through his background to try and find out where the flaw is,,
i know everybody is gonna say,, "size doesnt matter",, and you are right,,
but nobody is using the word"finnish" to indicate they are talking about 24 ounce birds,,
i also think that it is time to start measuring birds by wingsize, and head to tail measurments,, because "fat weights" are decieving,,,
i think that a 24 ounce tiercel goshawk is worth about 500 dollars,

[Tom Kent Gos]

The only person I know that flys a cross female flys her at 3lb 3. Prob the most beautiful gos I have seen and a very good flying bird. He breeds them and I think for a female your looking at £2500 and £1500 for a male.

[SparsTheOne]

this is a post about prices,,
and already i have seen somone made a post regarding quality,
price should vary along with quality,, no?
i recently spoke with somone who has a "'PURE FINNISH" tiercel,,
that flies at 24 ounces,,
the breeder he got the bird from' regularly sells his birds for upwards of 2,500 dollars,,,(and this is in the united states)
now,, i know that size doesnt make the bird,, but,, nobody would knowingly pay an enourmous amount of money for a bird ,that was the same size(or smaller) as the one you could get out of the tree for free,,,
in my opinion,, birds this small should be noted,, and his entire pedigree should be reviewed,,, and the entire line, scrutinized and watched closely,,,
unless the bird proves himself to be a legandary gamehawk,, i wouldnt allow his genes to be passed on,,
and in fact,, i would be searching through his background to try and find out where the flaw is,,
i know everybody is gonna say,, "size doesnt matter",, and you are right,,
but nobody is using the word"finnish" to indicate they are talking about 24 ounce birds,,
i also think that it is time to start measuring birds by wingsize, and head to tail measurments,, because "fat weights" are decieving,,,
i think that a 24 ounce tiercel goshawk is worth about 500 dollars,

So are you saying that a 24oz(1lb 8oz)is a large finnish male?,if you are there,s a few people on here that will disagree.

There,s a imprint male on here hunting at 32 1/2oz(2lb 1/2oz).

There,s also a P/R male that I went out with yesterday thats hunting at 28oz(1lb 14oz).

If these russian birds arent bigger than these whats the point:roll: ,apart from whats been said before and thats a new gene pool.

jase.

[Illustrator]

Sounds like buying a gos is fast becoming a mine field 1\2 crosses 3/4 crosses, GERMAN FINNISH, RUSIAN ,it will soon be 3/8 and so on and who could ever really prove whats what, its not like it a 1/4 deer hound 3/4 greyhound is it, easily distinguished. they are all the same bird with varying sizes, all a bit dodgy to me, can see a few getting ripped off somewhere:roll:

[HorseBox]

equally there are plenty of people with ''finish'' males which are a damn sight smaller than yours......there was a time when finish meant your were likely to get a big goshawk with reasonable temperement now what does 'finish' mean?? Russian to me is as meaningless as finnish. Gosses should be bought on performance,size and, to upset some folks, looks ( white gosses)
A sizable bird like yours if it performs and throws sizable young should command the same price as a 'Russian' of equal size. The only russian I have seen was big.....and throws young which perform so the term russian does distinguish them from the 'finnish' which i think have been watered down. New genes from a sizeble gos will be popular

so to answer your question.....nothing, other than opening a new genepool.Thats right on the money

[Dave G]

the price of this bird is the reason its sat fat doing nowt ;) and all the best bloodlines in the world dont make a fantastic goss its the time and effort which is put into the bird ?? manning ,fitness , and lots of kills makes a good bird /dave

[SparsTheOne]

http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/images/smiles/a_yumdumdoodledum.gif (javascript:emoticon('[smilie=a_yumdumdoodledum.gif]'))http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/images/smiles/banana.gif (javascript:emoticon('[smilie=banana.gif]'))http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/images/smiles/a_bravo.gif (javascript:emoticon('[smilie=a_bravo.gif]')):finga:

[W Jenkins]

My Finnish male is 2lb 7 fat weight so what does the Russian cross add to the bird for the extra cost?

I will second that Paul exact weight as my boy Wallace and there arent any extras with him:lol: :lol:

ATB

Wullie

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

So are you saying that a 24oz(1lb 8oz)is a large finnish male?,if you are there,s a few people on here that will disagree.

There,s a imprint male on here hunting at 32 1/2oz(2lb 1/2oz).

There,s also a P/R male that I went out with yesterday thats hunting at 28oz(1lb 14oz).

If these russian birds arent bigger than these whats the point:roll: ,apart from whats been said before and thats a new gene pool.

jase.

no,, im saying thats laughably small,,
im saying that breeders are keeping it a secret that they are producing birds this small,,,
im saying, that terms like "finnish" russian"("altai") mean nothing, thanks to breeders who are simply not selective ,,
science is way beyond the scope of these scams,, and instead of advertising, "finnish".,. breeders should be advertising, a pedigree that contains information on ALL HATCHES,from a particular bloodline,,
a raptor bred in captivity, for say 5 generations, should have a considerable pedigree,, the pedigree would reflect names of birds that have have MADE A REPUTATION, in the field,,,
this would be considered "proven stock"
any bird that could not produce such a pedigree would be "unproven stock"
with todays d.n.a.advnces, the possibility is open for 100% accuracy, and no false pedigrees,,,
a bird that you want 3 thousand dollars for,, should come with at least as much pedigree as a dog,,
and this way,, when somebody is selling miniature birds,, he can earn a reputation for it

[SparsTheOne]

no,, im saying thats laughably small,,
im saying that breeders are keeping it a secret that they are producing birds this small,,,
im saying, that terms like "finnish" russian"("altai") mean nothing, thanks to breeders who are simply not selective ,,
science is way beyond the scope of these scams,, and instead of advertising, "finnish".,. breeders should be advertising, a pedigree that contains information on ALL HATCHES,from a particular bloodline,,
a raptor bred in captivity, for say 5 generations, should have a considerable pedigree,, the pedigree would reflect names of birds that have have MADE A REPUTATION, in the field,,,
this would be considered "proven stock"
any bird that could not produce such a pedigree would be "unproven stock"
with todays d.n.a.advnces, the possibility is open for 100% accuracy, and no false pedigrees,,,
a bird that you want 3 thousand dollars for,, should come with at least as much pedigree as a dog,,
and this way,, when somebody is selling miniature birds,, he can earn a reputation for it

I see where your coming from now and yes your right,thats one of the best answers i,ve seen on here for sometime.

cheers jase.

[OutFlying]

Jase

He was flying at 33 and 3/4 oz :supz: And Lee Boyes finnish male flew at 35 ozs last year. Ivan Martins made 31+ ozs.


Jim.

[Casper]

well said jim i dont understand why people want to cross and why arent there any russian birds about just crosses?

They are only 25% @ best in this country . Thats if the German breeders are correct with their details. See previous threads on Horsebox's Russian cross. ATB

[PrinceOfTheWesternDesert]

im actually surprised that the german breeders have not devised a system of registry already ,,,that involves d.n.a.,,,, extensive pedigrees, and a strict system of requirments, that involves something like flying in windtunnels, through a series of obstacles, and then grabbing an artificial bird, that measures the strength in the grip, etc,,,
keep watching,, its coming,,
you should see how much info they can fit on a dogs pedigree,, they could really go crazy with all the science available

[Joey]

he went and bought a finnish male of a guy called john donald i think its for breeding but he wants a go at it himself i think he want to have breeding bird for the lads not to sell to everyone and proven hunting stock i think that only down to falcons me but thats my opinion


joey

[Redeye]

Jase

He was flying at 33 and 3/4 oz :supz: And Lee Boyes finnish male flew at 35 ozs last year. Ivan Martins made 31+ ozs.


Jim.

Last Jan 33 1/2oz killing cock birds:yawinkle: 31 1/4oz at present

cheers

ivan