fitness training

[North East Harris Hawker]

a lot of people use fist jumps, i weight my birds equipment lightly and stand on step ladders for fist jumps.... theres a lot of following on and flying in fresh breezy conditions, does anyone else have any other fitness methods that really work?

[Sniper]

the best fitness training is out in the field,luckily the area i fly there always seems to be a strong westerly wind,there is about a mile of wooden fencing and fly the bird regulary against it...gets her really fit, fist jumps are ok,but to build up stamina i find this way the best.

[North East Harris Hawker]

i like to go for long slips at the srat of the season too, but this often backfires towards the end of the season...my girl is into her 6th season now and often kills off hilltops quarry spotted 1/4-1/2mile away! it proves her eyesight, keeps my legs fit and has "altered" my sense of humour to say the least :roll: anymore tips people?

[Hawkmaster]

I do long distance luring in the local park, about 800 or so foot. With falcons the best is the kite.

[North East Harris Hawker]

luring, now heres something, i saw a guy in scotalnd who flew his harris to a bird lure the bird seemed familiar with it and was very quick on the turn compared to mine, has anyone else seen this type of thing?

[Hawkmaster]

I have been using luring for some time now with my HHs and teach all my students to use it too. It improves their behavior and you can recall them from a 1/4 to 1/2 mile away.

Just choose a rainy day when you can not fly, and note this is after the hawk is trained to the fist.
Bung a whole chick on the lure.
Simple swing it a couple of times, call the birds name, whistle and pop it on the floor within easy reach.
Let the bird feed.
Move in close but do not interfere.
Once fed, stand on the line close to the end and stand up and offer a pickup piece.
Another way off is to throw a small bit past the bird and lure and stand on the line and it will get it.
As it does quickly pickup the lure and pop it in your bag.

YOU WILL NEVER LOOK BACK!

[North East Harris Hawker]

Well, thanks for the tip hawkmaster, looks like its time to trawl thru eBay for a lure!... unless i can be bothered to make one...depends on the price... falconry:an endless drain on my bank balance :cry: great in the winter tho :D

[Hawkmaster]

Make one, some leather, does not have to be big, old rag, swivel, lure line and lure stick. NONE of it has to be absolutely perfect but it will work. Make sure you make one with a hole in the middle.

[Hawkmaster]

BTW Always give at least a leg in the field when recalling the bird. To make it a BIG thing in the birds mind and to really reforce the fact that it is a good deal you can feed a whole chick after flying say in the mews. Dont forget the pickup afterwards to resemble a field job.

[North East Harris Hawker]

ok, im convinced, ill bring some leather into work and knock one up next time im on nights 8)

[Hawkmaster]

If enough people want one I am sure I can make a pattern to put up here?

[North East Harris Hawker]

thats a good idea, get it on !

[Hawkmaster]

OK, will do!

[North East Harris Hawker]

back on thread tho, has anyone else got any little tips for added fitness for our feathered companions?

[Hawkmaster]

I love to go fly in a good Easterly Wind at a place called Shaldon Car Park, this improves so many things and will make a male HH use so much energy that I need to feed just over an ounze more food.

So Slope Soaring, is OK but I have found does not work them as hard.

I throw DOC heads off the cliffs and make them dive and work for the grub, and so build up fitness too, and BOY it fun to see!

[North East Harris Hawker]

ill have to find me some higher ground and give that a go myself :)

[Hawkmaster]

Look for people in the area that do Slope Soaring with Gliders or pop in to your local model shop and ask.

[North East Harris Hawker]

ive tried the glider thing and unfortunately the ground they use is lifting with game birds, i "accidently" stumbled upon it a couple of years back and left with a flea in my ear form the local warden :oops:

[Hawkmaster]

Bummer, no way to get permission? Sounds perfect, bird gets lift and a hawking you will go!

[North East Harris Hawker]

suppose i could ask agian this year, its national trust land too... which i think my council tax pays for? :evil: :twisted: grrrrrr!

[Hawkmaster]

Ahhh, one can get it from them, but go about it where you offer them a talk or static display for using the land?

[North East Harris Hawker]

thats not a bad idea, a case of wait and see me thinks 8)

[Hawkmaster]

Or look at an Ordance Survey Map for Public Rights of Way.

[North East Harris Hawker]

ive played that card before too "he's walking his dog here so i'll fly my bird" but some people can be really aukward

[Hawkmaster]

Ah, I also say and my bird does not **** all over the walk way either!

[North East Harris Hawker]

Ill have me another trip out and do some more begging after i get the time to spit :?

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Hi
I started to fly my HH to a kite towards the end of the season and you can really the bird having to work to achieve the incline.
I have tryed the jump ups with a ladder and running with a garnished fist.
The latter is great fun and if done correctly will test the bird like a swung lure.

[Hawkmaster]

Mark, how high did you get on the kite with the HH? Phil and I only got a male to about 15 or 20 foot at the most, or thinking about it, maybe less?

[Mary Quite Contrary]

I would say between 250-300 feet.
My line i use isnt marked but i work as a surveyor so i have a good idea of measurments.This year i am going to put marks on the line every 10" or so. Not looking forward to doing that job as there is 1000".

The ground i use when kiting has a very high bank. When i first started training her i would walk to the bottom of the bank put the kite up and then walk up the bank to the top. The bird wouldnt really need much effort to get to her prize. Gradually i progressed down the bank but away from the kite, so this took the gradient of the flight out, but still the same height. At the end of the three weeks i would be standing at ground level ( bottom of bank) about 150" away from the kite, let the bird go and she would start to climb as if she was going up a ramp.
I aways gave her a couple of warm up runs from the top of the bank to get the blood flowing and judge what type of mood she was in.

[Hawkmaster]

Wow, that would really be cool. I may have to drop mine from the kite with a remote box to get him up there? LOL

[North East Harris Hawker]

mark is this bird of your s a youngster or has he/she been doing this for a while?

[Mary Quite Contrary]

No she is a youngster

[Kornie]

where can you get one of these kites from? never seen one of these before.
(and what slope soaring, call me ignorant)

[Hawkmaster]

You can buy them BUT they are mega expensive. I will post a pattern as soon as Sparrow allows us to put up other files.

Slope soaring is when you put your bird up on an updraught wind to almost force it to go up, like a cliff with a wind blowing straight at it.

Great fun, especially with a cattie and chick heads. This encourages the bird to go soaring and look for quarry from the soar, but who really cares just seeing them fly like that is good enough for me.

[North East Harris Hawker]

mark, itll be interesting to see how your bird performs after this fitness training, from wht you say it looks like your going to end up with a megga fit bird 8)

[Mary Quite Contrary]

Her fitness level was pretty high before the kite flying.She is flown six days a week and sometimes twice a day.I only started to use the kite towards the end of the season. I will be using the kite at the start of this season, this should give me a better idea how useful for fitness training it is.

[Kornie]

is there a lack of kite merchants these days, just out of interest?

[North East Harris Hawker]

Her fitness level was pretty high before the kite flying.She is flown six days a week and sometimes twice a day.I only started to use the kite towards the end of the season. I will be using the kite at the start of this season, this should give me a better idea how useful for fitness training it is.
maybe you should take your bird out with someone who doesent use the same type of fitness training, just so that the difference can be noted? i recon your gonna knock the socks off the rabbit population with that bird 8) fitness really is the key

[Hawkmaster]

I have NO doubt that the kite does make FIT birds, as I have experienced with falcons, but would love to see if it can encourage a HH to regulary go on the soar? Now that would be cool :!:

[North East Harris Hawker]

if it works for the man there, then i am definately gonna give it a bash 8)

[Kornie]

Yeah me too. pretty soon my Harris will be taking deer :D

[Hawkmaster]

You joke, a friend of mine, called Mark Wills lives on Dartmoor, his Female HH took down a doe. Hazel may have more info on this too.

[North East Harris Hawker]

crikey! thats outstanding, i know they can be brave but thats taking things to the extreme, im surprised the bird was'nt injured!

[Kornie]

Damn how did you dispatch that one? Im suprised it didn't just rune off or something I konw my Harris went for my dogs and hit the window (ouch) nearly knocked her clean out.

[North East Harris Hawker]

harriss are known for flying at car widows, this is one of the reasons why i wont let my bird sit on the back of car seats but choose to box her.

[Buteoflyer]

Many here in the states use the jump ups, but I found the RT that I had a few years ago wouldn't do them. I then learned a process called controlled bates. When you first get started it's a bit sloppy because the bird doesn't know what it's supposed to do, but as soon as they get it, it goes great. I have not found any other excersise that gets results faster, including the jump ups. You have to do 100's of jump ups to get the fitness you are looking for, but with controlled bates, once you get to 50 they have flying muscles like rocks. Here's how it goes.

With the bird on your fist, you attatch them to a leash, I like to use a bungee cord for a little give. You extend the hand out and "flick" the bird off the glove. Make sure the leash is not so long that they can get to the ground. The bird flaps around and figures the only place to land is the glove so they turn around mid air and return to the glove. As soon as they land blow a whistle and give them a small tidbit. After the bird understand the routine and your increasing the number of bates, every now and again blow the whistle but do not give the tidbit. This will make the bird try a bit harder next time, maybe come back quicker. Every now and again when the bird returns to the glove, blow the whistle and give five or six tidbits. A bonus round sort of speak. Now I can hear all you out there saying that this will only incourage the bird to bate outside or in the field. Not so. The bird looks at this as hunting and actually looks forward to it. Be sure to do this in the same spot every time. I do them in the kitchen, but anywhere is fine.

My RT was a good hunter and I thought she was in great shape. She caught something almost everytime we went out. I then went to a meet and learned this method. I couldn't wait to try it. I got home and got set up. When we started the excercise, she could only do 3!!! She was panting so hard and her wings were hanging down. I was shocked, I thought she was in great shape. But eventually she was doing 10 a short break then 10 more and finally she was doing 50 without a rest. I could not believe my eyes the difference it made to her flying.

Remember to stop on a positive note. If you think she cant' do anymore, stop on a good one and give the rest of the tidbits. It's better to stop short of the full program then to have it start to fall apart and become more of a negetive experience. You will know after doing these awhile when is a good time to stop and when it's OK to push her a bit more. Also remember to increase her rations as she gets more fit.

[North East Harris Hawker]

wow! ive never heard of anything like that before! :shock: i think i would like to see someone else perform this before i attempted to have a go, i dont suppose there is any way you could film this done 2 or three times and email it to sparrow could you?

[Buteoflyer]

Mmmm... I'll have to think about that one. I don't have a video camera, but might be able to borrow one.

One place you can go to learn more abour operant conditioning (OC) is at a Yahoo forum called OPC Falconry. The guru of OC is Steve Layman and he is on it. Go back and read all the posts and you will get some idea of how OC is used and be amazed at what you can do with it. You can re-train a bird, correct mistakes, remove a birds fear of something. The OC training was developed by Karen Pryor many years ago. She had to come up with a training method for dolphins. There are several book by her, one of them is called "Don't Shoot the Dog" don't buy it. It doesn't really tell you how to use this method. A better book is "Clicker Training for Cats". Training BOP is a lot like training cats as far as their mentality. There are many dog trainers that use the "clicker" method of training. We use a whistle instead of a clicker because it's easier. In fact the jump ups everyone is doing is actually OC training.

[North East Harris Hawker]

thanks, i'll make some time to have a look at that site, if you can film just a couple of these controlled bates i think there would be a lot of people interested in seeing it. i for one have never heard of this type of training before

[Kornie]

hmmmm, I still think im going to use the ol' get off your arse and walk your bird routine (much as it is going out of fashion now) but it sounds like a good method of fitness training. Im working on the kite at the moment and hoping it will give my Harris an incentive to spend more time soaring and in the air. :D method still sounds great though.

[Hawkmaster]

I have used bating in the past to deliberatly start to make a bird fitter. i do however have reservations about doing it to a reward though, birds learn to do things for food and if you are in the field you DO NOT want bating!

How would this be done with an imprint you don't feed on the fist?

Very interesting anyway and always will to learn new stuff.

[Kornie]

that occured to me, you could end up with more problems.

[Hawkmaster]

I am also not to keen on the idea of flicking the bird constantly off the fist. Like I said I use this method, but only when they bate themselves?

This DOES make them fitter and teaches them NOT to bate!

[Buteoflyer]

The flicking of the glove is just at the begining. This is to get the bird to understand that they need to leave the glove and come back for the reward. When the bird has learned the routine, you will find that all you have to do is extend your arm and they will automatically do it.

Here is a web site for more information on OC. It's fairly new to use OC for falconry so we are all learning, But Steve Layman (the guru of OC) can really get into an acciptiers mind like no one I've ever seen.

http://www.scfalconry.com/clicker.html

[Hawkmaster]

I will read and come back with what I think, but so far it looks interesting!

[Buteoflyer]

I've been on sinus medication so it makes me a bit spacey (A bit!! :lol: )

Anyway, I forgot to mention the site I recommended is really in it's infancy and will take some time to get going. But it will be worth watching. He has some good links. I suggest going to the Yahoo group OPC Falconry. Steve Layman is on it and many very experienced people. The whole concept of OC in falconry is fascinating.

[Hawkmaster]

From the amount I have already read it does not seem to be anything real new to me. He does take it further that what my noraml training as before and also given it a nice new name.

I will look further, thanks for this useful link, I am sure there will be some good things to learn there.

[North East Harris Hawker]

it looks like with all theese tips, we're all gonna have hyperfit birds.....allegedly :?

[Sean]

Can you only fly a hawk to a lure a few times a day, and if the hawk doesnt catch any quarry for a week or 2 will it be lure bound? will using dead quarry as lure settle this?

[North East Harris Hawker]

i woulnt fly the bird to the lure more than 2 or three times in a day, dont worry if you dont catch anything by the middle of the saeson with a young bird, dead rabbits on string are live kills as far as the bird is concerned, you'll catch something! just get the bird fit by letting it follow on :wink:

[Sean]

thanks :)

[Sean]

Oh dear I forgot, the place I intend to hunt in the future has very little trees lol

[North East Harris Hawker]

thats not a bad thing, it means you can hunt a little longer as there is no chance of your bird disappearing in the leaves!

[Sean]

but -how will it become fit then hehe ? :(

[North East Harris Hawker]

it'll get fit chasing stuff :wink:

[Sean]

ok thanks again :D

[Ian Wileman]

Eight and a half fut salmon spinning rod. 20lb breaking strain line (or carp braid). Cut grass (football field for example - with goal posts either end!). Rabbit lure or similar. Chick leg. Mate at one end of field with rod. You at other with birdy. Lure in middle. Unhood bird. Mate starts to turn handle on reel. Lure moves 5 times faster than handle is turned (and speed can be controlled to give bird a chance and then speed up). Birdy goes nuts for lure moving at speed, and no human dragging it along, so more realistic. Once bird gets lure, stop turning handle (or turn slower to imitate moving prey). GREEEEEEEEAT! Rod and reel cost about 50quid second hand (or 100 new), but you could also take up spinning when its too wet to fly bird! Sort of kill two birds with one rod. LOL. Tried this last season, worked well, and saves your legs. Going to try it with pegs in the ground this year to see if it is possible to change the direction of the lure mid flight, like a jinx. GOOD LUCK FOLKS.

[Sean]

Grat advice, I have a few rods which I doont use anymore, they can become luring rods now hehe :D

[Kornie]

Id love to see a cast of harris go after a rabbit lure, do you think they will compete wit one another for speed??? Could be interesting.

[Wightwings]

GREAT idea Ian. don't you just love the inventive mind of the falconer.
eagle heights use an electric winch during displays!! the bird chases is for ages

[North East Harris Hawker]

has anyone used a kids remote control car with a rabbit lure taped onto it? these really can "Jink"

[Wightwings]

no but i've heard it said before, woulf you not lose that "rabbit" look? and waht about the noise?

[North East Harris Hawker]

the one i saw looked great, it made a bit of noise but at an acceptable level, much more like the real thing to!
if you tied a dead rabbit to one, it might even fool me into chasing it!

[Gos]

i make my gos fly up a slope field starting about 30 yards then 60 and then 100 yards it just makes them work hard.

[Ian Wileman]

Just been out this evening, casting Oak into the tall treese on our walk, over and over (till he got bored), then moved a little further on and did same again. He was panting by the time we finished....something I dont often see him do any more (now he is getting fit), but something I try to make happen once or twice a week, just to push him that bit further. Works really well.

[Ian Wileman]

P.S> when I say tall trees, I specifically use Scots pine within the walk, as these tend to have very few (often only thin) branches lower down, causing the bird to fly upwards for the higher more significant ones.

[Bill]

Second one should have been a P.S.S. lol

My Fhh is clever or lazy. If i tried casting her into a tree and calling off more than twice she'd sit on the ground rather than fly into the tree. If we're out just before dusk she walks to heel better than the dog.
:?

:idea: It's sad, but lying in bed an hour later I realised it should be PPS (I think :?: )

[BlackHawke]

nehh i dressed up my remote control car like a bunny even put the tail on the back! and used dry out rabbit skin as body. looked good at first but did;nt stay like that!! worked well except car weren;t fast enough on grass to challenge bird to much. i got the idea from last years falconry fayre. can't remember which display falconer used it but it was a novel idea that i thought mite be worth a try

[Jester]

do these tall scots pine trees give you an echo then Ian :P :lol:

[North East Harris Hawker]

nehh i dressed up my remote control car like a bunny even put the tail on the back! and used dry out rabbit skin as body. looked good at first but did;nt stay like that!! worked well except car weren;t fast enough on grass to challenge bird to much. i got the idea from last years falconry fayre. can't remember which display falconer used it but it was a novel idea that i thought mite be worth a try
mm theres remote control carsa and theres remote control cars, theres a kid on my road who has one and i think it could be faster than my car! them battery powered ones need to be more towards the higher end of the market if you want a quick one 8)

[BlackHawke]

it was a proper 1 fast as ... well u know!! built it with my own fair hands the problem was it was on a footy pitch not concrete

[Kornie]

I get me mum or dad a the bottom of the hill and work my harris up. I dont usualy do this very much these days but im gonna start again. fantastic for fitness.

[North East Harris Hawker]

do you find that when they get megga fit it goes against you at the end of the season kornie? ie you end up running miles?
thats definately the case here :roll:

[Gos]

i also get my gos to do a lot of jumping work, to get him to work harder i take is leashe of and put a chain in it place that works you soon get a fit bird, it a bit hard to fly in the week now the clocks have change it gets dark quick now, so that what i do after work in the week,

[North East Harris Hawker]

what sort of chain is it your using gos?

[Wightwings]

do you not worry about tail damage?

[Gos]

N E HARRIS HAWKER it is half inch chain links got 2meters from B&Q

[Wightwings]

is that just the weight thing then that fittens em up with the chain.
i find that really facinating.
i presume with one that size there is no deprement to them.

[Gos]

WIGHTWING i put is tail guard on if i need to

[Kornie]

Yes north I was going to mention thaqt lol. Its when you give the signal to call your bird in, you see that fixed gaze; the crouching and its only at that time you realise your about 4 fences away from her even though she only in the next tree! YOU RUN!!! I took her to a really deep valley she crossed it in the blink of the eye and it took me about 5 mins! huff puff :shock:

[Gos]

two weeks into the jumps with the chain and my gos is getting fit now

[Jiff]

sky and me are both learners to this game,when you talk of fittness,as she's a young bird and comming to terms with new things every day,would you think it wise to try these artificial fitness aids,at the minute i was planning on raising her fitness by hunting on a regular basis,but there are 2,3 and sometimes four days where i cant hunt,to be honnest at present i do little on these day's apart from feed from the lure which she has to secure,if she works realy hard the days that we'r out then i don't worry too much about her having it easy for a day or two after,she has got phisicaly fitter thats plain to see in her legs but stamina,should i be pushing harder and longer,or should i just carry on as i am and let her develop naturaly.

[North East Harris Hawker]

your doing just great as things stand jiff, the more you go out and the more slips your bird gets the fitter she will become, you've got no worries, by the end of the season you'' ll really see a difference

[Grovsey]

try hight jumping will get them fit vey quick if you can't get out 100-15- jumps and they are panting

[Jiff]

my bird pants when stressed for some unfore seen sucumstance,and she bates,is she getting fitter! don't take panting as work load mate,in my experiance (not of birds of prey) panting means jack, my bird has chased many rabbits, alot she's missed over some extreme distances, some she's caught over long distance,but never panted while sat on her prise,i would suggest that if the birds panting you'v already gone too far, my oppinion only,

[Wightwings]

good point Jiff my fem pants when not happy too. i.e. when i first hood her.
she also sometimes pants when she has a bate but luckely she deosnt bate too often.

[Grovsey]

relating to my hight jumping and the panting ,I was relating to the amount off effort they have to use to fly vertical not an issue over fright when the will pant but for a different reason

[Wightwings]

fair play G i know what you are saying my fem does pant after doing jump ups also, i think we are just pointing out that they do this also for other reasons, not a dig at you mate. :D :D

[Buteoflyer]

We have here, and I'm sure you have them there too, a thing called a hose guard. It's a pully like devise that you put in the garden so when you drag the hose around, it doesn't smash your flowers. I bought several of these and set them up in the park. Put them in a triangle shape one in front of you, one to your right and one in back of you. Set them about 30' to 50' apart. Set the lure out in front of you and lay the line around the guards until the end of the line in behind you. Take up your bird, take up the end of the line and start walking, or running. The lure will pull away from you just like the real thing, and it will turn the corner. If you place a few more guards you can make that "jack" zig zag like the ones in the wild. Change the direction the rabbit will turn next time and change the number of zig zags. The only draw back is I can't run as fast as my birds can fly. Pay a kid some money to grab the end of the line and ride his bike down a hill :lol:

Kathie