Red-Tailed Buzzard or Red-Tailed Hawk?

[Kornie]

I'm interested to know what you all think about the ol' Red Tails name please vote wether you think it should be Officially Red-Tailed Buzzard,Red-Tailed Hawk or it's latin name Buteo Jamaicensis and if you want give a reson!

[Kornie]

To kick it off I think Red-Tailed Buzzard as I think it is a heavy build and a similar structure to the Buteos, also the fact that it looks similar to the Common Buzzard

[North East Harris Hawker]

the fact its latin name is buteo jamaicenesis ( i think thats about right ) tells you that the bird is in fact a buzzard (buteo) if the bird was a hawk (a true hawk) it would be an accipiter but then we know this because we speak english, just try and convince an american of this though!
remember americans call
sluts-tramps
tramps-bums
bums-fannies
and erm... well, i think you have the picture now :roll: :lol:

[Kornie]

Ok ihave it here and i quote "buteo jamaicensis." Im sure the Americans do it just to annoy us and to be different! :x :wink: lol

[North East Harris Hawker]

ill keep my opinions of the american language to myself, i think ive made my point :roll:

[Hawkmaster]

I still like to call them Hawks, but then I call everything Hawks, including falcons.

[North East Harris Hawker]

theres a few falconers who are like that, i suppose it keeps things simple, handy if there are others listening who's english is'nt quite oxford!

[Waldini]

if any i would say red tailed buzzard.

but whats wrong with stright red tail.

[Kornie]

Nothing, thats what I usually refer to them as! lets make it official!

[Hawkmaster]

Don't you like them?

[Kornie]

I lhave a good freind with a red-tail, and I think he is a stunning specimen. However I think they aren't as reliable or fun to fly as a Harris' Hawk. But in terms of looks...handsome. How about you?

[Hawkmaster]

Love the look, power, easy of hunting in the soar, amount of flesh to work with, making them safer when it comes to weight control and an awesome ability to find their owe quarry.

I don't like the hassle from the stubborness in the field if new people are their, etc etc etc.

I would rather fly a Gos!

[Waldini]

red tail big feet big power. and brains what more do you need

[North East Harris Hawker]

a thinker! and a pro active thinker! thats why the harris is the most popular bird! 8) still, them red tails are one handsome bird!

[Kornie]

I admit I have seen Red-Tails seek out their own quarry which is a very admirable quality. How about we do a hybrid :lol: I'd still never swap one for my Harris' and still think the Harris' are more then capable of handling a hare when they are on form.

[North East Harris Hawker]

there was an article about a chap who did the harris/redtail thing, unfortunately the bird died, but im sure it'll happen again. im just waiting for the harris/gos cos itll happen sooner or later 8)

[Kornie]

Sends a shiver down my spine thinking about it! Why don't you be the first, NEHH you'd be famous! :D

[Kornie]

I'll sponser the project! It's a shame we can't see a picture from a front on view. Is the Harris'/Redtail succesful?

[Kornie]

Nice one Andy thanks a lot! :D

[Kornie]

[glow=red:bc432742ee] Give this guy a medal thanks andy![/glow:bc432742ee]

[Sniper]

Has anybody or do you know anybody who has tried to fly a RT and a harris together...if so what did happen and was it a good/bad experience, or was it carnage :cry:

[Kornie]

Is that both off together, or one off whilst the other watches?

P.S. you coming to the border falconry fair sniper, andy and waldini?

[Gaz]

Harris gos has been done,to chick stage at least,i know of someone personally who has done it(was talking to him about it last sunday),and buteo/buteo hybrids are common,as are golden eagle hybrids(i.e.goldie/steppe),..What could a hybrid buteo offer over a pure Harris,Redtail or Ferrug :!: A fit Harris is such a brilliant all rounder,,why bother??!!! :mrgreen:

[Kornie]

True there is nothing a Harris can't do really if it's weight is rightand it's fit. I just wouldn't want it to pick up the ferriginous' small feet. You coming to the borders falconry fair andy?

[Kornie]

oh yeah sry Andy I ment gav :)

[North East Harris Hawker]

great pics, is that the bird that was featured in the falconers mag?

[North East Harris Hawker]

the feet look pretty impressive, wouyld like to see the bird with its wings open though 8)

[Hawkmaster]

Handsome looking bird! Very similar to a bird a friend owns. Maybe we can get a pic of that one to compare.

NIMBUS, see if you can organise us a pic on yor super duper camera!

Only the tail that is different and it seems very much broader.

[Kornie]

I'd like to see if there is any difference between its adult plumage and its imature plumage?

[Hawkmaster]

You just can't mistake that Ferru head either!

[Kornie]

definately not harris' eyes, so they probs came from ferru

[North East Harris Hawker]

yes the head does look proportionally large, still handsome tho

[Hawkmaster]

Gos cross Harris would look similar, don't you think?

[Hawkmaster]

Well done! Now go to your profile and get a cool falconry avatar picture. That one makes me feel you are laughing at everthing I say? LOL

[North East Harris Hawker]

hey, you guys know its only a matter of time before some one starts with gos/harris hybrids, lets just hope whoever gets the ball rolling does it with some decent stock :x

[North East Harris Hawker]

its different andy, ill give you that much!

[North East Harris Hawker]

your quite right, them vultures are a bit naughty!

[Hawkmaster]

Smart, just what I like to see.

[North East Harris Hawker]

that vulture reminds me, id better get the mother in law a birthday card for next week !
PMSL :wink:

[Kornie]

lol NEHH, if only you got caught posting these messages one day!:D

[North East Harris Hawker]

its ok lads i get plenty of luck with birds!, i have been out and bought me a couple of efigy's, ill be spending the entire weekend throwing darts at them! :lol:

[Kornie]

lol yeah, I with you on that one andy :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

:lol: pmsl, i took a photo of the mrs to show you guys but for some reason her face does'nt show up when photographed, ive noticed a couple of puncture marks in my neck this morning too :lol:

[Kornie]

ROFL! I can only imagine :)

[North East Harris Hawker]

heheh ok shes had enough said about her, back on thread ... has anyone got any other points on buteo jamaicenesis (red tailed buzzard/hawk) that they wanna mention?

[Jiff]

first time ive viewed this poll,i usualy dont have the time to sift through all topics of descusion but scientificaly north east is correct the red tail is a true buteo making it a buzzard by fammily but what the heck what ever makes you happy guy"s if i had a red tail i"d probably call it "STORM". :lol:

[Kornie]

good call andy :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

if i had another redtail i think i'd call it "tree" from experience :lol:

[Craig Milner]

I reckon it don't really matter what you call it as its the same thing what ever you call it.

[Hawkmaster]

I like to call then Redtailed Hawks, but they are buzzards.

Back off topic:
NEHH, I'm sure you don't actually have a wife? LOL

[North East Harris Hawker]

heheh, im off to jiffs for a barby this afternoon, i'll post a few pics over the weekend, no doubt she'll get her mullet in there somewhere! :cry:

[Hawkmaster]

Haha LOL! Even my wife can't wait to see her now, you better hope she is bad or the women will string you up, BUT then, they still will because they will say you are nasty! You're stuffed, MATE! LOL

[North East Harris Hawker]

heheh ive been getting my punishment for the last 14yrs HM im a condemned man! gonna log off shortly to get ready for this doo! mmmm meat and beer mmmm :roll: :D
oh and wife :cry:

[Hawkmaster]

Nice one! Enjoy, have some EXTRA meat for me as I am a slf confessed Meatatarian!

[Kornie]

did ye have a good time?

[North East Harris Hawker]

jiffs barby was a hoot, heres a pic of the girls, mrs NEHH left and mrs JIFF right

[North East Harris Hawker]

and just in case you didnt believe me about the puncture marks/not showing up on photos....... :twisted:


burn the witch?

[Hawkmaster]

Bless em! They look like fun, Mrs NEHH look a bit like Emma from BB5?

[North East Harris Hawker]

hey it was a really good night at the jiffsters house, had a great time and so did the girls 8) have you seen the ferret pics?

[Wilded]

Here in Texas, a part of the USA, we use the Red Tail for squirrels and Jack Rabbits. They take Jacks to as much as 12 pounds. There is no better bird for hawking squirrels in the tree tops. It is called the Red Tailed Hawk because buzzard means a member of the vulture family here in Texas. It is a buteo and therefore a true buzzard. However the Harris is also called a hawk and it's true name means similar to buteo. Yours in the sport, Ed Thomas :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

They take Jacks to as much as 12 pounds.

hey! are you sure your jack rabbits get that big? only i thought the largest animal in this catagory was our(uk) brown hare "lepus capensis" followed by your(us) sagebush hare?

They take Jacks to as much as 12 pounds.

hey! are you sure your jack rabbits get that big? only i thought the largest animal in this catagory was our(uk) brown hare "lepus capensis" followed by your(us) sagebush hare? mmm in america everything is always biger and better !! pity about there small brains :D .......

[Kornie]

lol.

[Wilded]

Yes, I am sure. The avearge adult is around eight. If you find some raised in irrigated areas instead of Texas brush country they get quite large.

AS to the next comment most of you guys across the pond seem quite nice and probably someone I would like to have visit and hawk with me here in Texas, but I see that you have some jerks or small brains as you say also. Ed

oooo some 1 hit a nerve....

its all your lots fault changing the name from "marathon" to "snickers" and "opal fruits" to blimmin "starburst", all because you all had trouble with it !!!!.

kev

ps football is played with a round ball !!!! .........so there !!!

[Wilded]

The language my be little different but the hawking is similar and most of us here in Texas love a good english ale. ET

well we all like belgium lager...."stella"

:lol:

hey nothing wrong with a pint of tennents lager (brewed in scotland) ! only two things come from texas and that is steers and queers ! dont see eny horns coming out of your head boy ! are you a queer boy ? well boy are ya :oops: just a quote out of a film i saw a few years back ! :wink: no harm done!!

[Wilded]

and shooters

[North East Harris Hawker]

im sure our hares are bigger, gonna do a bit of research on the matter just to iron this out! :wink:

[Kornie]

Wilded I'm moving to the states next year, up-state new york. I bin doing falconry for 2 years+ and will have had 2 succesful seasons with my Harris Hawk. What do I need to do to get a licence to do falconry in the states. I know I will probably have to leave my harris behind :cry: :cry: could you give me as much info as possible.

[Wilded]

You will have to apprentice for two years under a general or master falconer. You can only fly a red tailed hawk or Kestrel. The good thing is you can trap a red tailed hawk or kestrel. After 2 years you can get what ever you want. You can trap a passage harris down here in Texas if you like or get a falcon. You need to contacty the USFW service and the the New York game and fish department. http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/speclic/falcon_license.html
http://permits.fws.gov/mbpermits/factsheets/FalconryQandA.htm
Sorry I do not know much about New York. That is thousands of miles from here. Ed

[Kornie]

thats magical mate thanks.

[Wilded]

If you visit Texas I will show you how to build your own trap to catch Red Tails and Harris hawks.

[Kornie]

Thank you very much but i sincerely doubt ill be going there, lol I would have to get my parents to drive me. Thanks very much for the offer though. If you ever feel like traveling to scotland for some hawking drop by mine and we can put you up for as long as you want.

[Johnny]

I would,nt be offering that kornie ,you,ll end up with a family of asylum seekers living in the back bedroom and i dont think your mum and dad would be that happy then ,lol

[Kornie]

LOL, thanks for you concern johnny, but Any falconers coming up by my way are always welcome. My parents say that aswell. I do it so I can interrogate them and steal all there secrets. :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

if your going to the states kornie, perhaps you could "sell" your bird to a local falconer in new york who is licenced (for say.. a dollar) and then buy it back in a couple of years? :wink: that way you get to keep your friend :wink:
amtrack will ship your bird overseas

[Kornie]

My next door neighbour is a vet, hes interested in them and was planning to buy one aswell. Ive spoken to them and told him of our plans and he will be happy to take her on gratis. And when I get my licence I will ask him to ship her over. The plus side of this... He will be hunting with me all winter and Trinity will get to know him, she will be flying on familiar land. she probably wont even miss me :cry:

But i might consider that.

[Wilded]

Here is some more New York State information I found.
A falconry study guide and an examination manual are free to applicants. The materials were developed by DEC's Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources and the New York State Falconry Advisory Board.

Information on the falconry exam may be obtained by calling (518) 457-0689, or by writing to Falconry, New York State DEC, Special Licenses Unit, 50 Wolf Road, Room 560-B, Albany, New York 12233-4752

[Gaz]

Kornie,go to the N.A.F.A. site and you can take the mock exam,
wilded,are you going to the nafa meet in Kansas,november??we are,want to try to get out with gary brewer trapping reds!! :mrgreen:

[Hawkmaster]

Right this nonsense can STOP RIGHT NOW! Thank you! The sort of comments made on the previous page can be left for another forum, one called "Idiots R US"

We are here for falconry not to slag off people. A true man and gentleman would apologise and make amends.

[Wilded]

Gaz that is so far from here I doubt I will go. Gary Brewer is a personal friend of mine and one of the best squirrel hawkers in the world. You can learn a great deal if you just sit and listen to Gary.

[Wilded]

Hawkmaster, I have only respect for my fellows hawkers across the pond. I was just trying to help someone and got attacked. Being Texan I had to shoot back. Forgive me and I will try to ignore people such as that in the future. Yours in the sport, Ed Thomas

[Hawkmaster]

No problems, my point was that you should not have been attacked to start with. Darn rude i thought and I felt embrassed by it.

[Kornie]

waldini mate, I thank you ever so much and respect the falconers of the US. Checked out the websites great help thanks :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

hawkmaster, i can see what your driving at, whilst a bit of banter is good, sometimes it can get a bit too personal, lets all remember that before we post. I am keeping an eye on certain individuals postings (and they know who they are) some have already had warnings, if people post offensive messages that are intended to cause offence, I WILL BOOT THEM OFF HERE

I'm not trying to pull rank here troops, but if the cap fits, wear it!
8)

[Hawkmaster]

Elitism in falconry is one reason why it declined so fast in past years. We need to all stand together now.

[North East Harris Hawker]

:?: this is true, but i dont see where that fits into this thread? :?:

[Hawkmaster]

Instead of slagging OTHER falconers off, no matter who or what they are. Nothing to do with the Redtail thread but then neither does the way it was going!

[North East Harris Hawker]

ah right! im with you now, mm having a laugh is one thing but your right in what your saying, i recon the best way to drive the message home though is to encourage attending a club 8)

[Wilded]

The Texas Hawking Association hunting meet is in January and any of you would be welcome. ET :mrgreen:

[Hawkmaster]

Pop it in the calendar Ed!

[Sniper]

thinking about going to the states next year and quite fancy visiting texas on my travels i would love to come and visit yourself if it materialises, cheers for the invite ed...do you accept coach parties :D The Texas Hawking Association hunting meet is in January and any of you would be welcome. ET :mrgreen:

[Wilded]

thinking about going to the states next year and quite fancy visiting texas on my travels i would love to come and visit yourself if it materialises, cheers for the invite ed...do you accept coach parties :D The Texas Hawking Association hunting meet is in January and any of you would be welcome. ET :mrgreen:What is a coach party? ET

[Hawkmaster]

Coach, Ed as in a BUS full of people. HAHA

[Wilded]

Coach, Ed as in a BUS full of people. HAHACome one come all. The registration fee is $25.00 US for the meet. Rooms are $49.00 US and the banquet is $15.00 US. Local landowners provide the property to hunt on and all registered hawkers get a map. If you do not have a bird there is always someone to hook up and hunt with. The lies....stories are great and we hunt all day and drink and talk a large part of the night. Jack rabbits and cottontails are the number one prey with ducks and squirrels a close second. Falconers come from all over Texas and the USA with about 200 in attendance. Any of you who are serious are more than welcome. I will be flying my first Red Tail and giving the Jacks hell. Those that know it all will miss out. ET

[Sniper]

You certainly know how to wet our appetites ED.....i think a lot of us are tempted..watch this spaceCoach, Ed as in a BUS full of people. HAHACome one come all. The registration fee is $25.00 US for the meet. Rooms are $49.00 US and the banquet is $15.00 US. Local landowners provide the property to hunt on and all registered hawkers get a map. If you do not have a bird there is always someone to hook up and hunt with. The lies....stories are great and we hunt all day and drink and talk a large part of the night. Jack rabbits and cottontails are the number one prey with ducks and squirrels a close second. Falconers come from all over Texas and the USA with about 200 in attendance. Any of you who are serious are more than welcome. I will be flying my first Red Tail and giving the Jacks hell. Those that know it all will miss out. ET

[Stickfigure5000]

Well... Here in the US the general public looks down on what to them is known as the common buzzard. A hawk however is looked up to and admired. Not to mention if you said Red Tailed Buzzard to the common american man they wouldn't have a clue about what you were talking about. But everyone in the US has an idea of what the red-tailed hawk is.

[Hawkmaster]

Sticky, WELCOME and thanks for joining. Yes we have a similar thing over here in the UK, most people guess everything you have on your fist is a Kestrel. Where I am in the Southwest of England there tend to be loads of them so most people do sort of know.

So tell us what do you fly?

[Wilded]

I used buzzard because most of this list seems to be in the UK. You are quite correct here in Texas a buzzard is a carrion eating vulture.

[North East Harris Hawker]

i think this argument could go on for ever, the bird is a buteo!

[Kornie]

I don't beleive it North we have been overthrown the hawks are winning!!! Argh

[Tiercel78]

Well, I think that americans tend to keep calling it the Red Tailed Hawk is because a lot people think buzzard means Vulture here. The way it was explained to me was. When settles came over to the americas they saw our new world vultures, that are the size of Hawks. The old word vultures are more the size of eagles and so it stuck. I know what buzzard means but thats cause I'm raptor savey and a lot of people are not. So yes, the american language is not all there somtimes.-Zach

[Gaz]

Redtailed Hawk-Buteo Jamaicensis
Redtailed Buzzard-Buteo Ventralis
:mrgreen:

[Jay]

Tiercel78 is right over hear the reason we call them hawks is because as he said, Vultures are refered to as buzzards and I dont think falconers want their bird associated with these baled necked roadkill eating birds

[Gaz]

Redtailed Hawk-Buteo Jamaicensis
Redtailed Buzzard-Buteo Ventralis

[David & Carol Newby]

I am a British born falconer now residing in America. Here to the locals a raptor cruising the sky is either a hawk or buzzard. What the refer to as buzzards are in fact black and turkey vultures! I find my self pointing this out to all in every school visit! The red tail is a buzzard and not a hawk. A hawk by definition is a short wing - according to the 'scriptures'. So I definately think a red tail is a buzzard. In fact the common buzzard there is sold here for $2000 yes $2000 and advertised as an Eurasian Bzard and not a hawk.... Go Figure!! Good Hawking.... Dave

[IAmTheWeasel]

a thinker! and a pro active thinker! thats why the harris is the most popular bird! 8) still, them red tails are one handsome bird!
Not trying to stir the pot, but, IMHO, the reason so many folks fly the Harris is that a 5 year old could train one. I think harrises are fantastic birds, but this just allows the slackers an easy way into the sport. I'm not saying all folks who fly a harris are slackers by any means but it happens alot. A red-tail teaches a person to respect the bird more....and besides, my FRT will eat a harris. :wink: I could go south for a few hours of my place and trap a harris very easily, but I have absolutely no use for one at the moment as I hunt large Fox squirrels down here. A harris would start losing toes to these big buggars.
Cheers,
The Weasel

[Kevin Massey]

So its a Buzzard;)

[GregMik]

Crips Kev,

You bored or something? Diggin up all these old threads....

Greg

[Andy Cunningham]

there was an article about a chap who did the harris/redtail thing, unfortunately the bird died, but im sure it'll happen again. im just waiting for the harris/gos cos itll happen sooner or later 8)ive got a harris x redtail and so have 2 mate's and there all doin fine :rolleyes: