WHY ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE BRAINWASHED WITH HARRIS HAWKS???????

[Steve L]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????

[Wilded]

Here in Texas we can trap passage Harris Hawks. You can be flying them on prey in about three weeks. They are able to take varied types of game including fur and feather. They are very good at suburban hawking on the edges of town and bond very well with the falconer. They are good with dogs and can be flown in groups. You may hunt them from a perch, the fist or the soar. Very few can compete with them. Many birds are a better specialist but very few can do it all like the Harris. IMHO :D

[Hawkmaster]

HHs are the reason falconry is now again flourishing and do have a very valued place for all the reasons above and more.

But lets compare, A Gos can be trained in 10 days, and taking quarry from day one, will take anything that moves, few hawks become as affectionate towards the falconer. Gosses have also been hunted from trees, the soar, in groups and NOT to mention off the explosive fist!

Goshawks are specialists, but in everything in larger quantities and faster too!

BUT OK, it takes a higher level of skill to get there and a better understanding of raptors and weight control.

Therefore, HHs make good beginners birds and can allow a novice to grow with their bird and both can develop to serious Austringers with tons of skill and with a lot less stress!

When I am old, I will only have a HH, right now, I want the adrenalin RUSH!

[Wilded]

The problem here is the Gos is native only to the very most northern states and so is greatly used in the northern USA but here in the southwest the Harris and Red Tail are king. I would like to fly a large female passage coopers hawk someday.

[Kornie]

Steve the thing is, Harris' are very sociable birds, and form a very good bond with the falconer, they can take probably the widest range of quarry, fly on almost any terrain, easily trained, and work with dogs and fly in a group, A bird with all these characteristics has to worth buying.

[North East Harris Hawker]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????

"your led to believe" tells me that you've never trained one yourself! heres a bit of free advice, find someone in your area who has a bird thats at least 3 yrs old and is flown 3 or more times per week. go out with him and watch.... all will become apparent very soon! :wink:

[Steve L]

there is nobdy near me who flys birds i have asked on the forum to see if anyone flys there birds in lancashire area i got no responce so i guess nobody does and i could do with gaining some knolledge as im a complete novice im training a kestral as my first bird and all is going well shes been a challenge but im learning a lot,

[North East Harris Hawker]

just bide your time steve, someone will crop up and before you know it you'll ahve someone with a wealth of knowledge to help you out. im still very surprised at you buying a kestrel as your first bird. what made you come to that decision?

[Mary Quite Contrary]

there is nobdy near me who flys birds i have asked on the forum to see if anyone flys there birds in lancashire area i got no responce so i guess nobody does and i could do with gaining some knolledge as im a complete novice im training a kestral as my first bird and all is going well shes been a challenge but im learning a lot,Hi steve
I cannot understand why you have started with a kestrel?
All the modern books about falconry tell the novice to steer clear of kestrels.
Who sold you this bird as they need a kick in the groin?

What will you do with this bird once you get bored of making it stoop to a lure and catching voles?
Why didnt you join a club and seek proper advice from falconers first hand. With the advances in :oops: :oops: breeding and general husbandry it is amazing that someone gets a kestrel as a first bird.
I wish your bird all the luck in the world and pray it lives.

[North East Harris Hawker]

a bit brutal, but to the point i'm afraid! from what i know it was a common mistake made many years back to start with a kestrel, its unfortunate that this is still happening :( so many must die in the hands of novices

[Steve L]

i expected this response but i wanted to start with a challenge theres no better way to learn than to jump in at the deep end and every thing is going fine for me and shes very well looked after,this bird is with me for life cant beat british birds

[Hawkmaster]

Make sure you weight the bird twice a day! No more to say and the Best of British Luck!

[Hawkmaster]

Sorry to double post, but I just thought of something, to be fare on Steve, he also has a Common Buzzard.

[North East Harris Hawker]

steve, do you have any plans to actually go out and catch quarry?

[Steve L]

thankyou paul , nehh i do planto go out and catch quarry but not with the two birds i have at the moment these are my learning birdsbut they will always fly them, next year i plan on getting a redtail which will be used for hunting. Im hoping to find someone who is willing to take me out and show me the ropes hunting so i will be ready for next yeardo you fly your birds near lanashire?? hint hint nehh (only joking)

[North East Harris Hawker]

yikes!, thats a bit out of my way! im sure a redtail is a good choice,any idea when you'll be getting it?

[Steve L]

hopefully one of next years young, do you know any good breeders of these? and how much do they sell for?

[North East Harris Hawker]

i know a chap in kirby moorside who breeds them, or at least used to, i think they go for about £200 for males and up to £300 for females. this chap advertises in the falconers mag

[Johnny]

ste ive just got a rt ,and he,s brill i got him yesterday i wouldnt trust him ive had him in the house tonight eating off the fist its going like clock work / the rt 6 years old and been used for breeding so he,s as wild as fxxk but hawkmaster showed me a few tricks anyway keep up the good work
All the best
johnny

[North East Harris Hawker]

there you go steve, looks like you have found just the person to give you a spot of advice with your RT 8)

[Johnny]

I will until it nails me and i get me patch on ,lol yeah ill keep you informed ste and tell you how im doing m8 i think ill man him ok m8 ?

[Steve L]

johnny hope all goes well for you m8 and yes keep me informed on how your getting on . cheers for the info nehh

[North East Harris Hawker]

johnny hope all goes well for you m8 and yes keep me informed on how your getting on . cheers for the info nehh

think his name is kenneth shaw, will find you his number if you cant :wink:

[Johnny]

what does nehh mean keep me informed ?
i will m8 i got him yesterday and he was wild i shxt meself at first .
but once he,s with you on your own its good , one day at a time i say ?lol
All the best
johnny

[Steve L]

i shxt me self when i got my 5yr old female buzzard she was nasty evil but now shes not that bad just foots me every now and again lol, but its all part of being a falconer.

i shxt me self when i got my 5yr old female buzzard she was nasty evil but now shes not that bad just foots me every now and again lol, but its all part of being a falconer. how old are you m8 ? what makes you think that getting footed by a bird is all part of being a falconer and who told you that you are a falconer? in all the birds that i have had i have only been footed twice and that was by a red tail BUZZARD once on the back of the head and once on the side of my face two difrent birds both red tail BUZZARDS ! and both was when the bird was flying to the fist !! i got rid of them straight away ! i would have preferd to wring there necks but i didnt have the heart to do so ! i didnt like the way that they wouldnt give up there kills and somtimes they got a wee bit nasty when trying to get the kill of of them ! i think you should learn to walk before you run m8 jmo tel me have you got your kes flying to the lure yet if so what weight is it at ! ime not going to ask about your buzzard as for imo they arnt falconry birds jmo m8 :wink:

[Johnny]

Im only a novice hawkaholic ,Ive got an african spotted owl ive stepped up a few gears now and got a redtail people tell me it isnt the bird thats at fault its his trainer ?like saying a workman should never blame his tools hey . I bet you had a deer stalker on at the time it nailed you ,lol

[Steve L]

hawkaholic im 27 m8 and a novice to falconry but ask falconers if they have been footed by a bird and i reckon the majoroty say yes.I know im not a falconer YET so tell me do i have to fly a harris before i come a falconer, dont think so im happy with my birds.Why is a buzzard not a falconry bird? whatdo you fly hawkaholic???

[Hawkmaster]

Steve, got any piccies of those Aylmerii and jesses?

[Steve L]

hi paul, i dont have any pics yet me little lad decided it was funny to play with it in the mop bucket but hes only 2 bless him (little shxt) lol. will be getting a new one soon.quick question do you think a buzzard is a falconry bird??

[North East Harris Hawker]

steveL/hawkaholic, i think you'll find the definition of a falconer being someone who flies a trained bird of prey to catch quarry, that would include buzzards and the title of "falconer" being earned once the bird is trained (by the flyer) and has successfully caught quarry in its natural state.
:x

[Hawkmaster]

I usually sugest the buzzard as a bird for someone who does not want to hunt, BUT I know that you can hunt with them. With enough dedication I believe you can use any bird for falconry.

Remember in the true sense of the word falconry is taking wild quarry with your bird.

It can be done, but not easily!

If you want to hunt it is better to step up a gear and get a bird that will do the business quicker that a CB? Or just go the route you are and learn the craft first and get a REAL understanding for weight control, and your craft will be better once you take on a killing machine!

[Bill]

Hey you all seem to be knocking the kestrel as a starter. Apart from the fact it is unlikely to take quarry it will teach you a lot. Try taking up an unmanned kestrel and see how long it takes to sit on the fist. You won't have it out weathering the first day either. They actually take some effort and skill to train. With the books available today and a decent set of scales anybody who manages to kill a kestrel through poor weight management should give up.

A harris hawks "training" can be mackled together cutting lots of corners and it teaches the trainer a lot of bad habits.

Training a harris hawk well does need skills and the respect for falconry management issues that come with training a more difficult bird.

Good decision Steve.

[Bill]

I didn't get to the last page before making my post - I hadn't seen Hawkmasters posts - sorry for the repetition.

[Adam Barrett]

Do u know how many kestrel's have been killed by beginers through poor weight control?
a person new to the sport would do much better to start of with a red tail or harris.
(just my two cents 8) )

[Kornie]

Hey Steve listen up, you will get a lot more respect off of folk telling them you have trained a Red Tail and succesfully hunt, Then telling them you have with a Harris. The key is to persevere. Don't do what Hawkoholic does and just flog it if its not playing ball. Work with your bird and DONT GIVE UP!

Personally i think kestrals are wonderful little birds full of personality, and I get a lot of pleasure out of flying them.

All The best Alex :D

[Steve L]

thanks for the replies you guys, glad to see people respecting my choice of bird, hey kornie whats this about Hawkoholic flogging birds,id like to see him train a kestral lol. thanks again guys

[Hawkmaster]

The Blonde kind I think? Yes BAby!

[Steve L]

are you telling porkies paul lol

[Kornie]

I don't understand somebody fill me in :oops: :shock: :cry:

[Steve L]

kornie
on your last reply you said hawkoholic flogs it if it dosnt play ball wot do u mean by that?

Hey Steve listen up, you will get a lot more respect off of folk telling them you have trained a Red Tail and succesfully hunt, Then telling them you have with a Harris. The key is to persevere. Don't do what Hawkoholic does and just flog it if its not playing ball. Work with your bird and DONT GIVE UP!

Personally i think kestrals are wonderful little birds full of personality, and I get a lot of pleasure out of flying them.

All The best Alex :D mm ! did i say that i sold the red t BUZZARDS ? didnt think that i did ! i gave them away m8 i gave them away not just for there acts of violence but also for the fact that i found them to be ***** on the feild ***** as in GOOD FOR NOTHING !! i had more fun flying my kids barn owl ! to be honest i dont know why folk still breed them as for the harris is a far better bird not just for the beginner but for the working man to ! some one who hasent got the time to man and fly there bird every day and when they do go out to fly it it will do good and work for his master !! (kornie what bird do you fly ? or should i say what birds have you flown ) pleas ask me the same question :lol:

[Hawkmaster]

Now, Now, Boys, no fighting, only love on this site! LOL

[Kornie]

Sorry i think your missing my point. I am saying it would be best to persevere with the bird instead of flogging it if the bird doesn't show immediate signs of progress.

Besides Hawkoholic some people like to challege themselves with a redtail. If a red tail is trained up properly and hunted succesfully they are formidable. Anyone can train a harris. But it takes work to train a redtail up. It shows skill...

[Steve L]

kornie cheers for the reply i dont intend on giving up i will not be beat with the kessie ,and my next bird will be a redtail.

[Hawkmaster]

Steve I have one for you at a GOOD price!

[Steve L]

how old paul? m/f ? and how much?

Sorry i think your missing my point. I am saying it would be best to persevere with the bird instead of flogging it if the bird doesn't show immediate signs of progress.

Besides Hawkoholic some people like to challege themselves with a redtail. If a red tail is trained up properly and hunted succesfully they are formidable. Anyone can train a harris. But it takes work to train a redtail up. It shows skill... get your head out of the book m8 and try it hands on ! theres no more skill involved in traning a r t buzzard than there is training a harris and if you think difrent your a fool !! tell me why do you think red tails are so cheep lol ever herd the saying you get what you pay for !! end of discusion ..........

[Kornie]

Nah Nah. You are such an amatuer thinking that. Why do you think red tails are difficult to train. They are idiot proof and stop half-wits like you having anything to do with them. Harris hawks are pish to train hawkoholic. I have had quite a lot of experiance handling a large variety of birds from a little merlin, to a steppe golden and tawny eagle. So I think I have the "hands on" bit covered. And will you stop talknig to me like I spend all my time reading looking stuff up. I learned almost all I know from people. You aren't really very nice Hawkoholic to be honest with you and by speaking to you am making myself look just as bad.

P.S I have nothing against Harris' I have one myself.

[Hawkmaster]

Steve, as we get a word in edge ways from the two love bird, God they sound married? lol

Female RT at least 6, been manned down and got to come on the creance about 10 metres and the rest of the time used for breeding. £175 Cheap as chips!

[Steve L]

shes a bit to old for me would prefer a young one besides i have to build an extra mew which will be next year.The missis thinks im mad filling the garden with birds so i told her to use the front garden to sit in lol

[Hawkmaster]

No probs, with an older bird at least you know it is going to live and not break anything as it is mature, although a BIT wild!

[Steve L]

ive hatched at last

[Hawkmaster]

WELL DONE! :P Roll on the 100 now!

[Steve L]

cheers paul

[Ian Wileman]

Hi. Fly birds in Oldham at a friends occasionally during the season. If you would like to come and see some harris flying the let me know. We fly up to four birds at a time so lots of fun. Only yourself though. I am sure everyone will agree, you can have too many people with you at once and things can get a bit nuts.

[Ian Wileman]

By the way boys, does it reallly matter what each of us fly, so long as the bird is kept in top condition, you are happy with your charge, the both of you get along (would not like to be footed by anything), and most importantly you remember, by keeping anything in captivity YOU are totally responsible for its life, wether it be a kestral or a koala.
P.S. Harris Hawsk Rule!!

[North East Harris Hawker]

Hey Steve listen up, you will get a lot more respect off of folk telling them you have trained a Red Tail and succesfully hunt, Then telling them you have with a Harris. The key is to persevere. Don't do what Hawkoholic does and just flog it if its not playing ball. Work with your bird and DONT GIVE UP!

Personally i think kestrals are wonderful little birds full of personality, and I get a lot of pleasure out of flying them.

All The best Alex :D mm ! did i say that i sold the red t BUZZARDS ? didnt think that i did ! i gave them away m8 i gave them away not just for there acts of violence but also for the fact that i found them to be ***** on the feild ***** as in GOOD FOR NOTHING !! i had more fun flying my kids barn owl ! to be honest i dont know why folk still breed them as for the harris is a far better bird not just for the beginner but for the working man to ! some one who hasent got the time to man and fly there bird every day and when they do go out to fly it it will do good and work for his master !! (kornie what bird do you fly ? or should i say what birds have you flown ) pleas ask me the same question :lol:

interesting, i suppose you'll say that goshawks are s***e too? because you cant train them in the same amount of time as a harris? I'd ask you what birds you have FLOWN (well and caught something) but i'd be surprised if there is anything but a harris on your list. I have trained a redtail and there is a lot more work involved (if you dont give up and pass the bird on) and i have seen first hand a redtail knock the socks off many harris hawks flown by "the lazy weekend harris hawker"
If you had bothered to put some effort into the redtail you would have found this out for yourself :x

[Steve L]

whos the invatation for ian???

[North East Harris Hawker]

[/quote] theres no more skill involved in traning a r t buzzard than there is training a harris and if you think difrent your a fool !!.........[/quote]

apologies for the double post, but this guy should be on the stage :lol: (sweeping it) :lol:

if this is the case hawkaholic, why did you give up on yours saying they were no good and pass it on to someone else? Maybe you should also be carefull who you call a fool, I think you'll find that everyone who has trained and flew redtails will disagree with what you are saying and think perhaps your statement is foolish.

you dont have many nice things to say and i for one find you offensive, maybe you should do some reading (if you have time) before you go making the comments you do?

[Steve L]

I think we shold end this thread its got a bit out of hand?

[North East Harris Hawker]

i disagree, the thread is spot on. the thing thats got out of hand is certain peoples wordings, lets just hope the name calling stops now.
8) so back on thread, why are people brainwashed with harris hawks? (as if we need to ask) :wink:

[Steve L]

so sell me the harris north

[North East Harris Hawker]

there is so much to tell, i dont know if i have enough time tonight! what do you wanna know?

[Steve L]

compare it to a rt

[North East Harris Hawker]

initially the harris is at least 3 times quicker to learn, the bird bonds more with you and is not ruled by its stomach so much, if it misses a slip it will actively seek you out and return to you rather than get the hump on. it knows its part of a team and provided you dont get greedy and rob it, seems to read your mind! funny i know, but as im walking along i think"if i were her i'd land there for this flight" and what im thinking is what she does, she follows the dog because she KNOWS he's the finder. they take all the worry out of falconry 8)

[Steve L]

i may consider one next year

[North East Harris Hawker]

hollinshead's book the complete rabbit and hare hawk
really puts you in the picture about this bird, its worth reading :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

Hey a Goshawk CAN be trained in the same time as a HH, Redtails are just so big it normally takes longer to remove the extra flab!

[Steve L]

i cant make my mind up which one to get next year, i do have 5 yes 5 kids so i think a harris might be more practical what do you guys think??

[Darren]

5 Kids.....havent you heard ov condoms or just NO!.....LOL only joking

[Steve L]

lol, youre catching up to me on the posts,when you doing your course and what bird are you going to be getting?

[Darren]

ive been phoning Gauntlet bird ov prey centre this week to try & sort the course out for Oct, will give them a bell again today or might just call down on monday & see if i can catch someone there.....3 birds have caught my eye, the Harris , Redtail & Gos. But will wait until next year before i decide on the bird i get

[Steve L]

let me know what you think of the course when youve done it, as im considering doing one myself but just the hunting day experience

[Ian Wileman]

Steve, the invite is for you (but you better PM reply so North doesnt get upset for changing the thread! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

theres no more skill involved in traning a r t buzzard than there is training a harris and if you think difrent your a fool !!.........[/quote]

apologies for the double post, but this guy should be on the stage :lol: (sweeping it) :lol:

if this is the case hawkaholic, why did you give up on yours saying they were no good and pass it on to someone else? Maybe you should also be carefull who you call a fool, I think you'll find that everyone who has trained and flew redtails will disagree with what you are saying and think perhaps your statement is foolish.

you dont have many nice things to say and i for one find you offensive, maybe you should do some reading (if you have time) before you go making the comments you do?[/quote] and what do you know about me and the red tail buzzards that i gave away ?? nothing!! ive probly forgoten more than you know about falconry m8 !! so dont jump in the deep end and try and make me look like a fool on a open forum or some night when ime sitting here bored i might just take the time to shoot your eego down in flames ! i bet your one of these guys that pay for hawking hols and all the other comercial bull s*** ! or you might even be one of these folk who peddle falconry courses and charge a fortune !! imo red tail buzzards are s**** this is jmo if i cant say they are s**** who are you to say they are the dogs b******* ? why have a lada when you could have a jag ! tell me who the f**** do you think you are enyway ......... p****

[Ian Wileman]

North, DONT TAKE THE BATE! We are not about this in this forum. This group could very easily fall apart if we are not careful to avoid this sort of situation. Hawkaholic, Why are you so offensive to people you do not know, will never meet or realistically, can have nothing against. Perhaps you should take stock of the situation you find yourself in and think whether this really is the forum for you. I hope you can come to a sensible conclusion and do the right thing by all the posters (including yourelf), and start posting as ALL others do. It will be a very sad day for you when you feel you have learnt everything you can about anything, and you could learn a lot in this forum. If not, then why be here?

[Ian Wileman]

P.S. I do not write any of this for an opinion or reply, I am just hoping you are sensible and get into the swing of things here. We are all very friendly (even when you post a thread that someone else thinks it is not!), and have a laugh. There are many other forums out there if this one is not what you are looking for.

[Steve L]

Totally agree ian, did you get the pm m8

[Ian Wileman]

Not yet Steve. You too wet the bed I see. Both North and I have done the same it would seem.

[North East Harris Hawker]

cheers ian, and i got the pm steve, dont worry i can rise above this one. I know quite a bit about my chosen sport and i hope it shows, as for those who do not, it also shows :wink:

[Steve L]

ive enjoyed this thread i asked a simple guestion which has been answered in my eyes,hawkaholic chill m8 the thread is being ruined so lets keep it clean , thanks steve

[North East Harris Hawker]

steve, have you looked into getting hold of that book by hollinshead?

[Steve L]

i have north ben long sells it for about £25 i think it is,but i think its going to be a harris next year

[North East Harris Hawker]

see if you can get a copy from the library mate, the second book "a passion for harris hawks" is'nt as good as the first book by a long shot. harris's are ugly in comparison to other b.o.p but they really are something else!

[Steve L]

i take it you cleared the language north off the top of the page cheers as like i said on another thread my little lad uses this site aswell as me . cheers north

[North East Harris Hawker]

i take it you cleared the language north off the top of the page cheers as like i said on another thread my little lad uses this site aswell as me . cheers north
course i did mate :wink: i can change it to what ever i like, i can even make him say he loves to dress up as a ballet dancer!

[Steve L]

not worth stooping that low,the way hes going he wont be welcome on this site, which is a shame because we've all got the same interest at the end of the day

[North East Harris Hawker]

he's got one warning and i only give three, so the ball is in his court, i wanna talk about birds and share thoughts, i havent got time for arguments, life it too short 8)

[Ian Wileman]

Well done North. I have two of Hollinsheads books...A passion for Harris hawks, and The complete rabbit and hare hawk. Both really good reads. I would also recommend Lee William Harris 'The Harris hawk' if you are thinking of getting one. He goes through the ins and outs of training 'Amy', a new bird. Very good read, and a very approachable man. I have spoken to him over the phone a couple of times and he is sound. BUY IT! Also, get the I.B.R. directory and Glasiers 'falconry and hawking', all worth reading.

[Steve L]

cheers for the info ian when you taking me hawking??? are you from oldham??

[Ian Wileman]

Liverpool, but have friend in OLdham I fly birds with. Harris at back end of moult, Saker almost in the air and new bird (harris) due to arrive at end of september, so will start its training shortly after.

[Steve L]

keep me posted will you ian cheers steve

NEHH whats good for the goose is good for the gander !! it has become apparent to me that this forum is very cliqueish and one sided !! if you dont like what someone posts then as a moderater you delete the post and mail them telling them why it has been deleted !! YOU DONT !! jump in and ad your tupince worth! or in your case you do ! you can boot me if you want as for it wont put me up nor down after all at the end of the day its just a run of the mill forum ran by cyber falconers !! i have flown and hunted bop for 12 years now every one of my birds have been traind to a very high standard with no flaws i have traind birds for falconry centers and for gentry long wings and short wings !! so for you to say in around about way that i know nothing is a insault ....................

[Ian Wileman]

Dear, dear, dear North, you seem to have upset your old friend Hawkaholic again. You must let him into your click! Can I be in it too? Hawkaholic, I dont know why someone as talented as yourself would even want to speak to plebians like us lot. We know very little about falconry, in fact talking to each other as we do, it is clear we know very little about anything. We are not worthy of you, and I would suggest there are much better sites/fourms out there than this one. Why dont you search for a better one mate, we are ****. Go on, do yourself a favour.

Dear, dear, dear North, you seem to have upset your old friend Hawkaholic again. You must let him into your click! Can I be in it too? Hawkaholic, I dont know why someone as talented as yourself would even want to speak to plebians like us lot. We know very little about falconry, in fact talking to each other as we do, it is clear we know very little about anything. We are not worthy of you, and I would suggest there are much better sites/fourms out there than this one. Why dont you search for a better one mate, we are ****. Go on, do yourself a favour. looks like your already in the (click) m8 :shock: i just seen a guy with four legs :?: ah its ok its just nehh with ian w feet hanging out of his rectum :lol: .........

[Kornie]

Ahahahahahah. Roflmao. I shouldn't laught but that was funny. I had to spit my mouthwash out.

[Hawkmaster]

Hawkaholic, chill out man! BUT yes Kornie is RIGHT that was a GOOD one! and I am still chuckling and laughing!!!!

Just be nice and keep that humour too! (Hope Ian and NEHH find it funny)

[Johnny]

Take up stand up comedy you,d be better then billy connolly ,i bet you,ve got a big bottle of jd at the side of you ,lol
Come on lads lets keep this clean ,light hearted is the name of the game lets not get nasty ?
from the prodicle child
Johnny
You like gravy dont you mo ,lol

[Ian Wileman]

HeHeHe, that was a good one Hawkaholic......"named yourself well" I see, it seems from your recent postings you go through hawks like an alcoholic goes through bottles of spirit. "oh no, that red tail just looked at me out of the corner of one eye. Right, thats is, cant train that Ba$@ard, sell it...no kill it....no sell it....no....kill it!"

[Shaun Byrne]

Looking back at some of your posts Hawkaholic, I can tell you are an experianced Falconer with a lot of practical advice to give anyone who asks a sensible question, having said that you seem to get drawn into some childish bickering as the thread starts to wear itself out. Dont let them rev you up mate, take it out on them bunnies and pheasants, lol.

PS I'm not in any click (nor want to be) just want to go fly birds, nail quarry and talk about it to like minded lads.

[Ian Wileman]

So do we all H4wka. I am not sure if you have noticed yet, but if you look back at all relevant posts the aggression, ill feeling, bad mouthing, poor use of language and the like begins with the same boring individual. There are no, nor have there been any 'clicks' on this forum that I know of. It seems that certain individuals are not capable of a mature conversation, and spend their time trying to find fault with others opinions. I have found in life this tends to be from people who have no opinion of their own, or, their opinions are generally wrong, and in their many walks of life they are constantly reminded of this, and end up throwing their teddy in the corner. The sooner this individual picks teddy up and puts him in the cupboard with the rest of his toys and learns how to conduct himself on a public forum (that may be being read by young children), the better.

[Falcon]

Why don't you lot get over it! Lifes too short!! Lets face it Harris Hawks are not bad hawks at all, and at the end of the day they are like Marmite, You either love or hate them!? For goodness sake don't take offense to what I've typed, it's only my personal opinion! Can't we go back to happy banter? :wink:

[Falcon]

Forget what I typed earlier, just getting a bit fed up with the bickering! Know only good jokes? :)

[Jiff]

i have a saying that"people can only bother you if you take notice"as i take no notice of **** i get on well in life take it from me hawkaholic just chill and go with the flow some times in life you have to wade through ***** to reach you"re goal.... 8)

[Falcon]

Here, here Jiff, Well said!

[Jiff]

just been going through the posts on this topic and it does seam to going off track,let me tell you my story and how i became brainwashed with the harris,always having an interest in hunting generaly with dogs,i always thaught that falconry was for the wealthy with nothing better to do than catch song birds and the odd partridge(how ignorant i was)anyway i lost my last dog to old age and illness and decided that was that,after a few months i found myself getting more and more down,no interest,one day i saw some B.O.P on a dissplay for a local raptor rescue center,which sparked a light,i whent to the library read some books and found out to my genuine supprise that these birds would take ground game,i further found that you could create a bond with the bird and that it would respond to it's name,i was slowly getting hooked this was my next adventure,since then i've totaly commited to learning the game ordering my bird building the housing,securing the land,getting my ferrets ect.ect.ect yes! i'm obsesed with the harris and now more than 12 months later i'm eagerly awaiting my first bird like a child waiting for xmas.nothing you could say would change my mind about the harris and as i said earlier i take no notice anyway,so if you prefer a red tail or anyother B.O.P thats up to the individual. :D

[Steve L]

thanks for the reply jiff, i posted this topic as i waslooking at getting a rt or a hh but as you can see in the topic things got a bit out of hand. Im happy for this thread to come to an end as i will be getting a harris.

thanks steve

[North East Harris Hawker]

im sure there are plenty of floks out there who are busy with harris hawks, im not sure who locked it or why but lets just see why you all bought harrises this year/are still flying them :wink:

[Wightwings]

just bought two, love em

[Saker-Clive]

If you ever meet mine..................you'll be hooked!!!!

[Wightwings]

ye mi missus was going to "kidnap him". in truth he is the prime example of the HH, the things you can do with him. thats way we like them.

[Snudz]

ye mi missus was going to "kidnap him"..

Tell her to join the queue, I saw him first!!! :twisted: :twisted:

[Milsbon]

at the end of the day, its about not wanting to own the bestest fastest killing machine god put on the earth,
its what you can offer the hawk you choose, its no good going for gos's, spars, gyr's ect ect if the owner works 5 days a week round the clock.
harris's have had a lot of stick over the last couple of years, but its not the birds fault, it has everything going against it just lately, but it should be the opposite,.
just because they are easy'ish to train, does'nt make them infererier hawks, the drop in price over the last 7'ish years or so dont help either.
a fit harris in the right hands is a formidable tool, ok so they will never have the speed burst of a goshawk ect, but they must be one of the brainiest hawks out there, and just because they use there head does no way make them infererier.
i will always have a soft spot for the harris as its "stress free hawking".
with regards to the redtail, its a sin to watch breeding pairs being split up and sold time and time again, because the market has dropped out,
there cracking birds in there own right, and superb looking hawks IMO, but, most do have a "im the gaffer" attitude especially females as breeding time comes around, but that goes with the territory of the sport, theres no crime in whatever bird you choose at the end of the day as long as its enjoyable, and you can offer it a good quality of life :D

[Saker-Clive]

As I have never flown a Gos, I might be wrong but can they be flown in a cast. If not it must be a pretty lonely day out. At least with the Harris' you can have a 'party'.

Social birds, and social people thats the answer!!!

[Milsbon]

you wont have a lonely day out with a gos S.S. but one things for sure, you get fit very quickly, lol

[Hawkmaster]

Any birds can be flown in a cast.

[Parahawker]

Why harris hawk.. indeed why..
Because all those new to falconry meet.. Harris hawk flyers...
Harris hawking is not falconry (I too fly a harris & hav done for my whole career in bird training)

Now i have two examples of why a harris is not falconry.
I have two very close friends.
Both started falconry at the same time under my support.
One had already ordered & payed for a female harris
The other was ready with mews & looking for a harris.
I gave the second falconer a male Redtail.
(dont give me any **** about aggression / footing or any bullshit to say a redtail is anymore dangerous than a harris.
Treat any bird with heavy hands it will get ****ed off.
Now 5yrs on the harris man still asks some silly questions
The Redtail guy had his RT killed by a rouge harris while it was teatherd
bit unfortunate but **** happens
He now works as a falconer has 2 peregrines a GyrSaker a male harris & is looking to get a goshawk soon
He flies his longwings at both game & gulls and is by far a top longwing man

The chap with the Harris.. is still plodding on with just as much enthusiam for learning, but i would never loan him anything other than.. another harris.
Buy most accounts a good harris will fly and hunt floating 2-3 oz either way of true hunting weight.
and due its minimal changes it will take a new falconer a bloody long time to recognise the true focus of weight
where as the falconer who flew the RT had to be very strict about what he was trying to achive or the bird simply would not do it.
This is not an isolated case either.
The chap down the road from me has been flying his harris for 17yrs
catches 200head a year.
he does not call himself a falconer anymore that a first time buyer in a fishing tackle shop can call himself a fisherman.

also to add a little somthing what i have just thought of interest.
the Redtail falconer who now has a male harris
Flies his out the hood off the fist at gulls, rooks, magpies & crows
He soars over his pointer also.
ya man who started with his harris flies from tree to tree & honesly is just the dog.
Humans are lazy, they work as hard as they have to, to produce results
So by pure instint we only look as deep in to a subject as we need to, to do it.

Marcus Lloyd-Parker
Falconcentre@hotmail.com

[North East Harris Hawker]

how can you say flying a harris is not falconry?
granted they maybe one of the easiest birds to train and if your i.q is lower than your shoe size you could still fly one (that was trained by someone else) but to imply that those who have only flew harrises are not true falconers is ridiculous!
I have only flown a redtail for a very short period and yes there is a difference but I have been out with goshawkers/longwingers whose fieldcraft was about as good as my swahili.
Harris hawks break all the rules of falconry, i fly one because
1 i like the fact that she is not ruled completely by hunger,
2 i know she likes me because she greets me when i see her,
3 she is a thinker and often takes the tactical route to conceal herself rather than the most direct path, i admire that.
4 she will work cooperatively with her own species.unique.
5 she can be flown vertually anywhere in any weather condition.
6 i dont need to socially imprint her/monkey around with AI to either make her my friend or get her to breed
7 i like the fact that all quarries are not beyond capture, even falcons prey
8 i like predictive people and animals
9 i like her impeccable manners
10 i like logical falconry and fieldcraft and thats what i have

to train a bird of prey regardless of species and enter it at wild quarry in its natural state, i think deserves the title of "falconer" or if you want to be finikky "austringer" but since the word austringer is technically obsolete the word "falconer" would seem correct

[Milsbon]

sorry parahawker, thats ****** mate, you cant judge everyone else on the fact that you lent your bird to someone who didnt go on to further himself....

good post there NEHH

[Saker-Clive]

Well said NEHH, can't argue with that one!!

Do you think your 'bear cubs' have anything to do with her greeting you :D

[Milsbon]

parahawker, what in your eyes makes a falconer then ? ... if you live your life by living up to standards you have to reach then im totaly lost here dont get me wrong im no expert, im allways willing to learn something new.
but i went from harris's to redtails to a gos this year, and spars, but i certainly wouldnt look down at someone flying a harris,

[North East Harris Hawker]

lets not get irate about parahawkers post, maybe this "falcoer" has rattled him with bad practises/failing to listen which maybe why he posted. heres an interesting point, how many falconers start with a harris, then fly other species to come back to the harris for the remarkable bird it is?
there will be more than a handfull :wink:

[Parahawker]

1 i like the fact that she is not ruled completely by hunger,

Q (Do you know why she isnt ruled by hunger?)

2 i know she likes me because she greets me when i see her,

Q (why does she like you if not ruled by hunger?

3 she is a thinker and often takes the tactical route to conceal herself rather than the most direct path, i admire that.

Q (Are you aware this is an instint that all birds have or learn?

4 she will work cooperatively with her own species.unique.

Q (Lanners hunt co-op style as well as all Buteo breeding pairs & eagles

5 she can be flown vertually anywhere in any weather condition.

Q (execept when they make a kill on grass in rain

6 i dont need to socially imprint her/monkey around with AI to either make her my friend or get her to breed

Q (but by manning a harris you are partially socially Imprinting, hence the often vocal first years

7 i like the fact that all quarries are not beyond capture, even falcons prey

Q (May i ask in what style do you fly?

8 i like predictive people and animals

Q (laying down a set routine and carefull management will result in predictive behaviour from a sparrowhawk

9 i like her impeccable manners

Q (Manners come from the skill of the falconer do they not?

10 i like logical falconry and fieldcraft and thats what i have

Q (explain how your field craft benifits the hawk on the quarry it hunts

I love to learn by peoples reactions
I would also like to thank those who fly harris hawks for bulking up the number of falconers in this country
who would otherwise not be active in the field with other raptors due to time commitments

As glasier said, "falconry would have far quieter a voice without harris hawks"

May i also say that my view on falconry as a field sport is not flying multiple harris hawks from trees at game.
I fly a cast of harris hawks at game from both the fist & from trees
I do not play any part in the hunting other than flushing game un-naturaly.

With the way that you describe your falconry & the involvement of your field craft with your harris hawk
i would be thrilled to see such a bird perform in the field.. hint hint for an invite..
You may well be one of the few that take the harris hawk to its full potential
if this is the case i wish more people like yourself would progress with there para-buteo to such limits

Marcus Lloyd-Parker
Falconcentre@hotmail.com

[North East Harris Hawker]

good post marcus :D
i know she isnt ruled by hunger as she will kill from 2lb3-2lb8, i dont want her chasing sparrows at 2lb 3 which is why i allow her weight to fluctuate.

at 2lb7 at the start of the season she is not the most obediant but she will kill, of course obedience is a must so she is kept keener.

at fat weight i am greeted by friendly quiet croaks, there is no food involved, apart from off the fist flights in the field she is never fed directly.
her liking of me is through manning and past experiences.

breeding pairs and siblings cant be truly given the title gregarious as they are unlikely to always stay in each others company

no BOP can fly when its soaked

she does not display for copulating or make any noise for food, there is bonding but no imprinting

she is flown mostly following on in woods, from the fist on open ground and on the soar from higher ground

manners are influenced by the falconer but i also believe they are part due to selective breeding

i use fieldcraft to give my bird the element of surprise, be it wind direction, direction of approach, noise control etc. to give the bird the best advantage you have to think like a bird and channel your energy and thoughts through her.
when my dog and bird perform to the optimum i swear the three of us are telepathic !

[Wightwings]

here we go again,it seems every time i come the forum lately someone is at someone else again! starting to get a bit tedious.
I respect your views PH although i do not agree with them. some of the above rebuffs to NEHH's post show me that although you slag the HH (and the people that fly them a thick)and claim to fly them to their full potential yourself you obviuosly do not know the bird. full stop. I cannot even be bothered to put you right on the incorrect points as you seem to me one of these people that has their view and it is correct no matter what. shame that, as we like to swap and learn on this forum................ oh yes learning because i like HH's.....obviuosly means i am an inferior falconer, better get myself a longwing, or a gos so i will know it all............oh I have flown them (successfully)so i must do.
We are all learning something all the time and anyone thats thinks they know it all is a dangrous person to have around BoP.
Happy hawking PH
.

[North East Harris Hawker]

ever the middleman WW 8)
im not getting at anyone, nor do i claim to know it all
because i dont.
the guy who taught me has been practising the sport for 30 yrs now and theres things he does that i disagree with.
i like reading books on the sport and i think that to listen to everyones thoughts/ideas helps you paint a picture in your own mind.
your dead right about learning from others and this site should make falconry in the uk and the rest of the world a lot better even if peoples opinions differ
please dont anyone think ive taken the nark, what i like i soak in and what i dont is like water off a ducks back ! simple as that 8)

harris hawks make a great sport available to so many and like the man said "falconry would have far quieter a voice without harris hawks"
so true

[Wightwings]

NOY YOU ya muppet, :? :roll: my remark was aimed at PH.
I just felt his post was a complete dig at every member who flys a HH. :shock:
P.S. i'm playing the middle man because i wanted to vent my spleen but with held because as i say this forum is not about that.
:D :mrgreen:

[Parahawker]

See, harris hawkers do take it seriously & not just on weekends like most folk talk about.. lol

Sorry. short on time.. post later..

Marcus

[Wightwings]

if your short on time Marcus tou may consider a Harris Hawk :roll: :wink: :lol:

[Parahawker]

WWings.. you've not been following posts..
I fly two of em..

because i love the relaxation side to falconry that they bring.
I open the boot. they fly out.
I slip on my jacket & boots & wonder down the path while on the mobile..
glove in pocket you've little to worry about..

:D Marcus

[Wightwings]

I KNOW Marcus it was a little attempt at some humour on my side :wink: :D

[North East Harris Hawker]

you slag the HH (and the people that fly them a thick)and claim to fly them to their full potential yourself you obviuosly do not know the bird.

wightwings would appear to have read this correctly 8)

[Parahawker]

one of the main traits that the harris has is its willingness to work at such flexible weights.
Is anyone aware of why this is?

Best answer gets a mystery prize..
and no begging for answers ANDY.. lol


Marcus Lloyd-Parker
Falconcentre@hotmail.com

[North East Harris Hawker]

good question, i put it down to them being gregarious.
the bird is a natural team player and accepts the falconer into its "circle"
this means that is it not ruled as much by its appetite but will hunt "for the groups benefit" (that being you)even at a higher weight. when the bird is at a lower weight and is looking out for itself more, I allow the bird first share of the food, this means your playing the bird at its own game. you have helped it out as it has helped you out. the bird knows whats fair and what isnt so it pays not to be too greedy! it seems to make sense to me!

[Saker-Clive]

I agree, I always allow Kier a few minutes on the 'kill' before taking it away; he usually takes out the eyes and tongue before anything else. Then I swap it for a reward whilst hiding it in the bag.

[North East Harris Hawker]

wats the range you have with your bird SS before it refuses to hunt? mine starts at 2,3 and she sarts getting disobedient around 2.7 in the early part of the season, but when its really cold just over 2.8
so a five ounce window! not bad really!

[Parahawker]

Spot on fella, NEHH
I wonder how many are saying to themselves. "oh.. oh yeah.."

NEHH, remind me to send you a DVD in the next week or so.
a few thousand pictures should keep ya busy for a while.
i got to go though it & edit the ones that are no good first.

It dont fit on a DVD yet lol..

[Saker-Clive]

Kier is normally responsive from 1lb.6 1/2, upto 1lb. 7 1/2oz, later on in the season. I have flown him really well at 1.8 but that was just because I wanted to get out.

Normally, once he's been out a few times and is in the swing of things I've got a 2 ounce window. Flying with other birds also gives an allowance.

[North East Harris Hawker]

i picked my bird up today, basically she has had no training this year, one flight on a creance for 5 metres and she was off free! she walloped two rabbits but failed to keep hold of either today, but then thats fine for the first time out!
another reason why these birds are great :D

[Red Sheridan]

Only just found this topic and not got time to read all pages but I'm getting the gist of it. There certainly seems to be a very opinionated falconer adding his two pennyworth!

Why is it that some people seem to have an unshakeable opinion on the Harris and so many are willing to knock it?

The Harris, when fully trained and FULLY fit is an incredible bird that is capable of taking very varied quarry species on its own - a feat that would not normally take place in their wild state. Does the fact that it is relatively easy to train make it less of a falconry bird? Is there a macho issue here? Surely even the worst falconer can get his Harris to foot his face if they want a really good scar!!

Why not live and let live? We all see the best in the species we fly but surely the main aim is to enjoy what you do, not make it a numbers game or a macho experience.

I was once standing at a stand at the Falconer's Fair when I heard somebody behind me ask another falconer 'What bird do you fly'? The answer...... 'Only a Harris' ONLY a Harris...............the sad git! I felt it necessary to ask the question - 'Why ONLY a Harris'? He had no answer but clearly he was of the same mind set as some others we all know.

Shame on them, they know not what they say!!

Goodnight.
Red

[Ian Wileman]

Harris hawks rule!

[Debbie]

WOW - Red spot on mate? :wink:

Some people just do not get it do they :roll:

Debbs xx

[Wightwings]

here here Red!!

[Ian Wileman]

They still rule you know!

[Gos]

my male harris is taken rabbits out at 1lb 12 and i have bred from him before , im looking for a big female, can anyone help, by or exchange for a male gos?

[Grand Master Falconer]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????
I think you have answered the question yourself, I have a two year old daughter she has just entered her first Harris Hawk after a season sitting in my female ferruginous' hawk bath!!!!

[Wightwings]

grand master falconer, now theres a name :shock:youre nor related to that Chelsea manager are you :D welcome to the forum hope you enjoy it here.
i presume from your "title"and your comment you are a Longwing man. sure people on here will be picking your brains.

[North East Harris Hawker]

[quote="Wightwings"]i presume from your "title"and your comment you are a Longwing man....quote]

na! i recon with a title like that he must have intellect, definately a harris flyer!

[Lanner Nut]

every1 that i have met tells me or my dad to start with a red tail a HH or a common buzzard, they have good intentions but i like steve want some of that deep end without drowning myself, i choose a lanner. My opinions will most likely change but for a constant 5 years my heart has been set on a lanner and the thought of purchasing a HH and then wanting a lanner is one that i dont like the thought of. Dont get me wrong im sure HH and supreme hunters and generally super birds to hunt with but ive always been more of a longwing person

[Afshimo]

The first bird I took home to train was a Male kestrel. He was flying free, bearing in mind that I had no scales, and it was middle of winter when i first started training, i think he trained really good, and a pleasure to be with. He is still alive, and looking good too. I would like to get him back, and train him to hover (I've been told a few secrets lol) and have sum fun. I think Harris hawks are cool, Look nice, act great and proper falconry birds. I love the big females, sonorans. Not cus they're big, but the colour is soo lovly, and i found them nicer to handle

Hannah

[Wightwings]

ill tell you why because they are sh!!1 hot thats why. took my girl up 4 weeks ago, she went free yesteday and had a whale of a time at a "mini" field meet today?!!!!! HH's guys and girls ya just gotta love em. :D :D

[Red Sheridan]

Hi Hannah,

I'm surprised by what you say about Superior Harrises. It is a mistake to believe they are either bigger or a better temperament. Using the term Superior when advertising a Harris for sale will simply guarantee a slightly higher price but certainly not a better bird. It's a sorry state of affairs but sadly many bog standard Harrises are advertised as 'Superior' due to the greater monetary value. I think that most people are aware that the only reason they are called Superior is simply because it is a town name near the Sonoran desert!

Following a long discussion with a Texan some years ago, he told me that in the States, the Sonoran bird is considered no different to any other Harris although you would get large and small birds as you might with any species.

I would hazard a guess that most experienced falconers on this list would be hard pressed to pick out a Sonoran out of a line up of Harrises. (Me included) I have owned two genuine Sonoran birds over the years and still have a male now. I have to admit that in fact he IS quite large, flying at 1lb 10ish. (talk about self contradiction!) As for colour, nothing to choose really.

No matter, you have fun with your bird and enjoy it for the right reasons.

Regards,
Red

[Wightwings]

well said that man. :D

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Wightwings]

eight tolans on each foot and a double hinged jaw to swallow roe deer in one go :roll: :shock: :wink: :lol:

[Shaun Byrne]

**** WW, I thought it was just MY female that had those characteristics, you mean there are others? She had a stag last week, those antlers are a pain in the arse when making in! LMAO!!

And yes, I agree, big male, small female.

[Hawkmaster]

"P.S Big HH sock!!!, Big Male, Small Female "

Varmint is that ment to be STOCK?

[Gaz]

Talked to a bloke in the states who has studied hhs for 13+years,and line bred for 20yrs...he said "you can get hhs from all over usa,inc south america,and they are all the same,the only people who make distinctions are the limeys..superiors(a town in arizona)have slightly different feathering and barrings..and the only hhs that get on really well(group hunting e.t.c.)socially are the small colonies in the sonnoran desert"...and by the way,i was shocked in the usa by how small the hhs are,my male,at 1Lb 6 oz (22 ozs to them)they all thought was a real good size(wich it is,weight means f all)there males were around 1Lb 2-3ozs. :mrgreen:

[Gaz]

So anybody got any idea what this feature is (other than size)?

The bony structure above the eyes??

[Jiff]

when i baught sky she wasnt advertised but the guy was recomended to me,he has supperiors he's original stock imported i've no reason to dissbelieve him,however sky is a big female but i've seen others as big which arnt reported to be supperiors,however one obvious differance with sky and the others was her feet,they'r big and her legs are thick(and the little git has just pecked me in the eye while typing) maybe thats the differance.she also has a broader head than others i've seen.

[Wightwings]

good call Jiff, Faith has bloody big feet, but her best feature is her round head!!!! its a lovely shape and i've had many comment on it, were as the male has a "flatter" top

ps on the feet thing her left foot is bigger than her right in comparison and iv noticed on the lures she binds with this one and foots the "prey"with the right! she does this EVERY time
anything unusual there Varmit?

[Red Sheridan]

No varmint, I don't have any idea but I get the feeling that you may be about to stun us all with your greater wisdom.

Red

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Wightwings]

tail???????????????????????????****...........i'v got a batleur.......lmao :lol: :wink:

[Gaz]

have slightly different feathering and barrings

[Varmint]

What about big Bird versus little bird anyone got any stories?

Any Flying weights of HH either Huge or small?

[Varmint]

Go on then Gaz, you can have that one :lol:

[Varmint]

And as for the foot thing WW!

It's not uncommon for your bird to favour one foot when binding, prob a bit like you being right handed?

My mate has a one footed Gos! ( Lost to infection thru Squirrel bite) and she dont have much say in the matter! (but she still kills over 100 head Every year)

[Matt]

im gona get loads of **** for this i bet .but if i had a choice i would fly the brazilian harris as i beleave the females weight less then 2lb. if thats so i bet the males are the fastest form of harris available and would be fantasic to fly at partrage crows ect.
matt

[Varmint]

Matt, im gonna get a lad i know to join the forum and tell you about his male HH.
I bred it, and it flys at 1lb 3oz..
It's up to nearly 25 head (10 weeks) and most stuff is winged LBJ's.

It's like a spar!

Watch out for a new member called CHIK.

[Hawkmaster]

Varmint, Dave Newby sold a male HH to a local chap and he hunted at 1lbs 1 and 1/4oz. Sparky was hus name and he caught an 8 pound hare, be it after several tries.

[Shaun Byrne]

Only ever flown one small FHH. She flew at 1lb 14, and went like an exocet. Took everything bar hares with her but she was killed in her third season by a gos being "flown" on some adjoining land. The FHH that I fly mainly at the moment finished last season at 2lb 8 but she isn't a patch on the small one. I think its harder to get smaller females now because everyone wants to breed the bigger birds, I'm definately going to get a small female next year.

[Matt]

has any body got or know of a super small harris that i could put with my female as i would love to breed from her and try to breed down in size over the generations.
im well impresed about u lots thoughts and veiws about smaller harrises . iv asked about this time and time again but nobody breeds or wil admit to breeding the tinny ones.
all the best matt

[Shaun Byrne]

Believe it or not Matt, I've been after a sub 2lb DECENT FHH for quite a while and real small males are even harder to find.

Maybe Varmint should start double clutching!!

[Hawkmaster]

H4wka your FHH flying aT THAT WEIGHT, DID YOU JUST TRAIN HER UP OR USE THE SUPER DUPER MAN OVER A MONTH HIGH WEIGHT THINGY? lol Sorry for the caps?

[Wightwings]

super duber flying stooper hey HM.

put it like this faiths a good weight, keen, happy and is looking good and very responsive. I've not too many qualms with the method it has to be said but still find although heavier in theory she still needs some weight control.

[Shaun Byrne]

Sorry mate, it was the boring old "get the weight down and let her have it" routine. She starts the season at 2/2, 2/3 and normally finishes at 2/7, 2/8. She moults out around 2/14, 3.0 and is really aggressive during the moult. Once her weight is down she's soft as slice.

[Shaun Byrne]

Do you think the training at higher weight has actually made any difference WW or do you think she would be flying at the same weight if you'd used regular methods?

[Wightwings]

i would have to say it would be fine thing. she is up 2-3 oz on her aviary weight but i belive she came out sharp so after a week in the weathering being fed up regular she put on weight.

she actually fed on the fist the second day of manning without being starved, i hav managed to keep her on moderately good rations and she has responded well all through. if i was to be honest i would say she could easily take more weight as she stil has some sharpness there so in truth i hve prob done her using some middle ground, neither starved or glutened

the male is a diff kettle tho, hes plump at 1.10 1/2 and un responsive but keen as hell at 1.91/2 ! but not sharp. he also VERY quick and aggressive on the lures at ALL weughts and has rather taxd me little ol' brin working him out. he will go free this week ( should have done sunday but time and weather beat me) at 1.9 for peace of mind but i am confident he will fly 1/2oz up easily. hunting i honstly feel that 1.9 he looks keen enough tho not too sharp!!! its been interesting all round

[Hawkmaster]

This is why I still have seen no evidence of the method working.

[TimberDog]

I often find myself thinking i would love a saker or perry cross saker but alass to no avail....

I would stick with Harris as above seem to be in short supply or simply not to sold for some reason..???

Tim :? :? :?

[Red Sheridan]

Varmint said > Well Red, seen as you were so well veresed in the "Sonoran" i had to ask? <

Your words my friend, not mine - even it it was badly spelt with poor grammar.

Well, hey 'Guys' listen up now .....and learn!
Personally I sit here spellbound and in awe................................

[North East Harris Hawker]

Sorry mate, it was the boring old "get the weight down and let her have it" routine. She starts the season at 2/2, 2/3 and normally finishes at 2/7, 2/8. She moults out around 2/14, 3.0 and is really aggressive during the moult. Once her weight is down she's soft as slice.
sounds like you have a nice bit of kit there 8)

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Kessy]

Despite the brief episode, I've just finished reading this thread and I find it really intereting. I'm even more confident in my choice of HH for a first accipiter-type bird. Like it's in my sig, the first one was a kestrel, more, a male kestrel - and he did well. Got him in the evening, weigted next morning at 180g (6,35oz?), he was eating on the fist in the evening, started jumping for food the next day. I would weight him once or twice a day. I have the feeling he taught me a lot. Intelligent beast he was. I'm looking forward to learning other aspects of falconry from a different type of a bird. I just hope I'll manage... ;)

[North East Harris Hawker]

im not quite sure what your driving at, varmint, im guessing this is the thread you pm'd me about, i'm not bothered about anyones reading or writing skills, im not sure why you think i am? there has not been any malice intended for anyone so i wont apologise.
anyways, this thread has been one of the busiest, i just wanted to "hoof it" back into the top spot. there are a lot of people out there flying HH's im sure they want to tell prospective owners just how great a bird they are.
I hope we understand each other now

[Steve L]

this is the best thread ive read on this forum, im just happy that so many people appreciate it as much as i do, keep it coming guys

thanks steve

[Jiff]

a point on the top weight debate,i can't hunt saturdays and sundays or mondays,i try and get out tuesday with sky at arround the 2lb 3 3/4 oz i feed her up off a kill and try and get out wed pm if her weights not right i go thursday am i feed her up again but not to bursting and try and get out friday am,obviously things don't always go to plan and if for any reason i'm not going to get out i feed her right up and keep her at arround 2lb 6oz she is a proper gluten and will fly to the lure at this weight or any other kind of fittness work i do she will always respond(but she wont hunt) i gradualy bring her down to 2lb4-2lb3 3/4 and we hunt again i dont always get it right at the moment but it will come, i dont like the idea of keeping her weight down if we'r not going to get out for a day or three, but she behaves her self under control at a high weight which i put down to manning at high weight innitialy i'm a novice so i could be wrong :wink:

[Hawkmaster]

Steve would say that as he started it! lol

Jiff I love the top weight thing too, needs its own thread.

I too agree to increase weight in off periods, but what the method is claiming is flying and hunting at a higher weight too.

[Jiff]

i'm a novice but i would say,atleast from my own short experiance,that it would be difficult if not impossible to get a harris to bind at high weight,having said that its sometimes more fun watching the chase when they wont commit,constantly buzzing the bunnies head untill it gets to cover,frustrating but fun. at the end of the day why should the bird go to the trouble of grappling with the quary when it don't need to,instinctively the bird will kill to calm its hunger,i realy dont think it's possible to overide these instincts.

[North East Harris Hawker]

some good points here, i agree that its unfair to keep a bird screwed down all the time, i like there to be times of hard and times of plenty, oh by the way jiff i need a favour off you, will pm you tonight

[Shaun Byrne]

That'll be the times of hard then Jiff!! lol!!

[Red Sheridan]

[quote="Varmint"]
Im very sorry for my last post red, it is all true but is not intended to open up old wounds, just that this therad was brought into the recent threads by a mod for some reason? :x :?:

My spelling and Grammar are appaling, but what i try to say is sincere.



Hi Varmint,

You will know that I cannot, and will not, question your sincerity. Neither would I question your ability, I think is is plain to see there is nothing lacking there.

I assumed that you must, by now, have already seen my last post and that it was over and done with, then here comes the thread again!

I have said to you by pm and now publicly that I appreciate the laid back manner in which you have accepted my occasional 'digs' at you and I greatly respect you for that. I tend to be a little more fiery and quick off the mark sometimes.

I had no idea that you are dyslexic and I apologise for making comment on your grammar and spelling - both wrists have been soundly slapped and I have had a tattoo placed on both my forearms to remind me in future. :wink:

Nick Fox in his book Understanding the BOP has voiced a theory that he believes many falconers are, to some degree dyslexic and my experience with many falconers over many years would certainly back this up. Despite this I have met an awful lot of really nice people with a wealth of knowledge.
My wife is in teaching and looks after special needs children, many of whom are dyslexic. She has vouched for the ability of dyslexic children to 'bond' with animals in a way that some others cannot. I wonder?

Take care Varmint

Regards,
Red

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[North East Harris Hawker]

Thanx Red, i knew we were cool but couldnt understand why this post thread was returned to a new post by a mod from Dec 14th?

Oh well, he has his reasons?



just cos something is old, it doesent mean its no good :wink:
at least thats what i keep telling the wife :shock:

[Red Sheridan]

Kin ell NEHH you think you're old at 33? Damn, there's no hope for some of us old farts then.

All the best
Red

[Red Sheridan]

Hi Varmint,

Something sprung to mind...........well, it sort of crawled in slowly if truth were known. Martin Hollinshead as you know is a great enthusiast so far as Harrises are concerned, and in one of his books I'm sure he mentions flying his bird even WITH a full crop. You will have noticed how extreme cold weather changes a birds response time and enthusiasm for the job whereas at the same weight on a warmer day that same response can be noticeably slower.

Mind you, he also is a great advocate of using a swung lure with a Harris at all times and even goes so far as to say that anybody flying a Harris should carry a lure at all times. This presumably is his answer to your statement about the live quail. I guess it's a question of whatever works for you.....

I agree with you about imprints but until I can find a method of imprinting (social or otherwise) that can still guarantee a silent bird, as much as this can be guaranteed, I will stick to the parent reared along with all and any little foibles that go with it. As for 'the right buttons' this comes with experience as you are obviously aware and boy oh boy aren't there a lot of buttons to choose from?

All the best to you varmint.
Red

[Varmint]

:arrow:

[Saker71]

HH easy to train and easy to pond with the falconer and can work with ferret and dog but that is not thier fault i am sure if they were hard to handle we might respect them more i think they are a great birds i enjoy flying them like i enjoy flying my falcons each birds have his style and we are lucky that we can see them flying

[SparsTheOne]

i have not read any of the posts on here before so someone else
may have said this before me,the only thing i find with hh hawks is that they are to smart 4 there own gd, if you have a redtail and you walk pass a chicken coop, once its out of site its not a problem, but with a harris its a headache,cos it will always return to the quarry its seen that is easy to kill, and to me that is a problem, if you live with no chickens in your area that is very lucky 4 you,but most people have to put up with chickens and have to keep there birds on there fist untill theres a save time to let there bird off the fist, which gets on my t*ts lmao
well dont laugh about it that much but i have to put up with it,or just let my red kill the little f**kers lol.but i dont unless i can help it, but it happenthe other day and he got 1 of my m8s chickens but that dont count cos he said it was ok cos we were hunting partridge by the chicken pen lmfao but there you got my 5 penith.

cheers jase

[Gozzhawk]

come up to bonnie scotland aytime, we will show you falcons stooping and the intimate bond you can get with an imprint redtail, it takes all sorts . dont let the old skool put you off. its all about respecting nature. THEY who talk rarely invite you to experience

[Varmint]

THEY who talk rarely invite you to experience

What you mean like the Scottish Forum open field meet we held here 2 weeks ago Gozz?

We've had a little ta ta tate on another therad so far, i can see you and me hitting it off so well!

Whats this bit about respecting nature you seem to add on every thread?

Are you saying that none of us respect nature? or that just you have had this apiphany?

Tell us exactly what you do that we dont, to respect nature?

Drive your van onto the middle of a hill so your falcon can see it from 1000's ft(quote) and "Home" in on it?

Most of the forum members on here do love and repect nature, many changing their life styles for this respect.

Forum members incl Vets. Lawyers, Farmers,Environmental scientist's, police officers, Research scientists and we have even got GAZ!

many many learned people, tell us what were missing?

[HawkWind]

Why I'm brainwashed with my harris hawk Esmie..she is FUN.. she makes me laugh...and she makes me proud to be with a creature that could hunt and live for herself..but comes back looking for me (yes I know it the easy option for her..but it brings a lump to the old throat !! :-)... )

Long may we fly and hunt together...would not be without her..

Harris Hawks ? ... GREAT COMPANIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

[Saker-Clive]

AMEN to that.

[ChicM]

I reckon one of the biggest plusses with HHs is the fact that they can be made silly tame and so are safe for kids to handle. Without kids becoming involved, this sport is dead. If you could see how my boys light up when they see our bird fly and how it has completed our lives to have him around then I think that even the most hard-bitten anti-HH falconer would concede they have a rightful place at the heart of modern hawking.

Room and scope for everyone.

[ChicM]

And having said all of that - I'd direct everyone to the thread on Cuddly Toys where Varmint has posted a picture fo his little girl after she was attacked by a rogue FHH. Even the ones that are silly tame - I guess it behoves all of us to make sure we put safety first in all of our dealings with all raptors. Especially around kids.

[Wightwings]

well said Chic. My lad has always been around he birds but i will only trust the steadiest of birds around, and then only with very close experienced people that i can trust. At the end of the day despite givin you the impression otherwise they are essentially wild animals and prone to the same temprement change

[North East Harris Hawker]

hoof this thread!

[RabbitHawker]

Bloody hell you'll have a shock next year, and lots of pain. Join all the clubs BFC etc. and find a local mentor, they are out there. A well flown Harris can be as good as many weekenf gos's I have seen, an a lot less stressful, they get a bad name as so mant pseudofalconers and idiots get them .
Chris

[OutFlying]

Bloody hell you'll have a shock next year, and lots of pain. Join all the clubs BFC etc. and find a local mentor, they are out there. A well flown Harris can be as good as many weekenf gos's I have seen, an a lot less stressful, they get a bad name as so mant pseudofalconers and idiots get them .
Chris

A well flown hawk is the only one to own and fly. A fit harris will not equal a fit gos in the field but a well flown harris hawk will perform better than a gos that isn't flown correctly - I agree

[North East Harris Hawker]

hoof this thread! LETS HAVE SOME MORE POSTS!!

[Gordon]

"your led to believe" tells me that you've never trained one yourself! heres a bit of free advice, find someone in your area who has a bird thats at least 3 yrs old and is flown 3 or more times per week. go out with him and watch.... all will become apparent very soon! :wink:could'nt put it better myself,

[Gordon]

A well flown hawk is the only one to own and fly. A fit harris will not equal a fit gos in the field but a well flown harris hawk will perform better than a gos that isn't flown correctly - I agreebullshit

[MickeyDredd]

bullshit

Expand please? :lol:

[Annie]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????

I disagree with that.....if so easy then why has the ibr register got at least a hundred lost H/H on their books.............

[BlackHawke]

because their cheap to replace.also coz people become complacent. thats a whole different subject!!!

[Saker-Clive]

I've not read all the thread but for me, a HH is great because they can be flown in groups if you want, and they will normally fly superbly working as a team once they get used to each other.
How many other raptors can be flown in hunting mode with out trying to kill each other?
They are social birds so they like the company and the 'sport' of competing/working with their own kind. Like NEHH said, go out with someone or a few people with birds in their 3rd or 4th season.
They are no easier to train than a falcon BUT they are quick learners, which makes them 'easier' because the time factor is quicker in the manning and training responce time compared to something a little more headstrong or nervous.

If this has been said earlier I do appologise.:rolleyes:

[BlackHawke]

easily learn bad habits to! love em!!

[RBBeagan]

I fly a Harris because it is probably the best bird for the area that I live in. There aren't a lot of gamebirds in this area. You'd have to travel a bit further north for pheasant, or for quail in any number. Mostly we have rabbits and squirrels. I love Red Tails too. They really kick serious butt on rabbits and squirrels. I've trapped and hunted with two different RT's, so I wanted to try something new. That left the Harris as the best suited for this area.

If we had more gamebirds, I would try a Goshawk. I know they're good on rabbits, but they don't seem to penetrate the heavy cover here as well.

Cheers,

Bob

[RBBeagan]

This may be a stupid question, so please forgive my ignorance. When you mates in the UK talk about flying Red Tails, are you talking European Buzzards, or do you have access to captive bred North American Red Tailed Hawks?

Also, regarding Kestrels: The American Kestrel is one of the three birds that Apprentices are allowed to fly here in the U.S. (with the RT and the Red Shouldered Hawk). Not many choose to fly it as a first bird because it is difficult to train to catch game and to take care of properly. BUT, in the right hands, with the proper supervision, it can be a very fun and productive bird. A new apprentice in our club, a 14 year old boy, is taking Starlings and English Sparrows with a passage male Kestrel.

Cheers,

Bob

[GregMik]

I fly a Harris because it is probably the best bird for the area that I live in. There aren't a lot of gamebirds in this area. You'd have to travel a bit further north for pheasant, or for quail in any number. Mostly we have rabbits and squirrels. I love Red Tails too. They really kick serious butt on rabbits and squirrels. I've trapped and hunted with two different RT's, so I wanted to try something new. That left the Harris as the best suited for this area.

If we had more gamebirds, I would try a Goshawk. I know they're good on rabbits, but they don't seem to penetrate the heavy cover here as well.

Cheers,

Bob

Bob,
I disagree with this. I well flown Gos will do way better in cover than a harris. Now if you are talking weather considerations, I agree that a harris is better suited to the heat. But a harris will not crash with all out abandon like a Gos or a Red will. If you want a layed back bid that will hunt with your job situation, I agree a harris is for you. A Gos is a one person, one bird, type of bird that takes allot of time and attention to detail that is not required with a Harris.


I agree that a Harris is relatively easy. But things are relative. Falconry is not easy in the true sense of the word as it takes allot of time to do right. So a Harris is a relatively easy bird for falconry.

Greg

[RBBeagan]

Hi Greg,

You're right about my job situation. I forgot to mention that. That was a big part of my decision to get a Harris instead of a Gos. Most people I talked to didn't think a Gos would be well suited to hunting for two weeks straight, then sitting in the mews for two weeks.

I think you know that I've never flown a Gos, so I only have experience with watching friends' birds. My Harris hits cover harder than my buddy's Gos, but not nearly as hard as my RT's did. For the record, his bird is a first year female eyass (wild taken). I shouldn't have made that comparison based on seeing a just a few Goshawks.

Bob

[GregMik]

Bob,
I wasn't trying to pick on you. I was just stating that a "Well Flown" gos will out do a Harris any day of the week. It is just that most falconers, including me, can't fly a gos well as life issues usually get in the way. You are doing awsome with a bird that fits well with your life issues.

Greg

[RBBeagan]

Greg,

No worries mate. I didn't take it that way.

Bob

[WelsHawker]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????

Have you ever flown one....?

[Hobby]

Nobody will convince me that there is a better rabbit hunting bird in the UK than a well motivated well trained Harris' Hawk.This is a bird that you can fly from the fist at ferret bolted rabbit,fly in a following on fashion at rabbit flushed from light cover and can be flown from a soaring position in open country.Its versatile.If you are going to fly it at pheasant than be disapointed,get yourself a Goshawk instead.

[Ben C]

Nobody will convince me that there is a better rabbit hunting bird in the UK than a well motivated well trained Harris' Hawk.This is a bird that you can fly from the fist at ferret bolted rabbit,fly in a following on fashion at rabbit flushed from light cover and can be flown from a soaring position in open country.Its versatile.If you are going to fly it at pheasant than be disapointed,get yourself a Goshawk instead.


You can do all that with a Goshawk as well............but thats a waste of a sprinter I think!

Can't beat a RT or HH on the soar, thats what they are built for.

Incidently how old is this thread????? PMSL

[Hobby]

You can do all that with a Goshawk as well............but thats a waste of a sprinter I think!

Can't beat a RT or HH on the soar, thats what they are built for.

Incidently how old is this thread????? PMSLI also think a Gos would be more easily lost flown like that.I believe the natural cooperative hunting style of the HH make it more suitable to hunt in a fashion that allows it an element of freedom in the field i.e following on and on the soar.

[Johnny Abbott]

having read most of this thread and agreeing with some and not others all i have to say is that the hh chasing a pheasant across a feild deserves respect as any gos doing the same job . to say they are easy thats debatable to get them very fit takes longer than the gos and fitness is the key to any succesful hh anyone can get there bird to drop out of a tree and mug quarry but a bird that will keep up the chase even after missing is abird worth its salt and beleive me i have being out hunting with people that tell me there birds are fit and when there birds give up the chase after the first 100yrds there excuse is that there bird didnt want that rabbit anyway

[Hobby]

having read most of this thread and agreeing with some and not others all i have to say is that the hh chasing a pheasant across a feild deserves respect as any gos doing the same job . to say they are easy thats debatable to get them very fit takes longer than the gos and fitness is the key to any succesful hh anyone can get there bird to drop out of a tree and mug quarry but a bird that will keep up the chase even after missing is abird worth its salt and beleive me i have being out hunting with people that tell me there birds are fit and when there birds give up the chase after the first 100yrds there excuse is that there bird didnt want that rabbit anywayI agree with the thrust of your post but I must say that on the whole I believe the HH is not an ideal bird to go specifically hunting pheasant with.Yes of course they take them and sometimes impressively on the rise,but they don't and can't outfly them.A persistent bird may take them when they put in.Trouble is at game they will be compared to the Gos which is superior.Rabbits,well as I said earlier The HH does very well and is in my opinion the best all rounder.

[Johnny Abbott]

I agree with the thrust of your post but I must say that on the whole I believe the HH is not an ideal bird to go specifically hunting pheasant with.Yes of course they take them and sometimes impressively on the rise,but they don't and can't outfly them.A persistent bird may take them when they put in.Trouble is at game they will be compared to the Gos which is superior.Rabbits,well as I said earlier The HH does very well and is in my opinion the best all rounder.thanks for your reply hobby all i was saying is that the hh should get the same respect for doing the same job but as i say thanks for the sensibe reply

[Hobby]

thanks for your reply hobby all i was saying is that the hh should get the same respect for doing the same job but as i say thanks for the sensibe replyI agree with you.I think it helps when we all[Harris' Hawkers and Goshawkers alike] can appreciate and acknowledge to others what it is our birds do well and where they are not so good.After all we are dealing with the birds genes that cannot be altered.Regards.

[MattSpar]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????

Train one, fly it well, and you won't need to ask.

[Moses]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????


after hunting wae a few i aint complaining, its an awesome bird and alot of fun

[CJ#HaRrIs HAwKs RuLe#]

no challenge?

who said falconry had to be hard?

and anyway getting a first bird can be very daunting so many people would be comforted by the ease of training.

then again all birds are diffrent.

the main point is your still learning many falconry skills you don't have to start with a buzzard or red tail to learn somthing you know.

[BlackHawke]

i love harris's they are so versatile so acrobatic.if trained properly brave little sods. i've seen only a small proportion of what i rekon they can do if they are trained properly. ben c's bird and lancz for example

[jed]

fun to fly when in a cast

[Graham C]

i have been flying harris hawks for over 2 years now and have come across the most stubborn bird ever, last year she was excellent, this year she seems very nervous would this be anything to do with her moulting? some of these birds are a real challenge.

[Matthew Patching]

ime not going to ask about your buzzard as for imo they arnt falconry birds jmo m8 :wink:

Who sez buzzards arnt falconry birds I have hunted with 3 and they would put some peoples, (that i wont mention here), Harris Hawks to shame, My highest return was 48 full grow healthy bunnies for a season, the same buzzard also caught 3 cock pheasants and coursed several hares so dont tell me that you cant hunt with them you just need to understand how to get into thier heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! obviously you dont, so you shouldnt comment on what you can and cant do with a bird!!!!!!
ME

[Wightwings]

Just thought id start a new thread, but why are people so obsessed with harris hawks?theres no challenge they more or less train there selves im lead to beleive. so why the harris hawk????????:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol:

[North East Harris Hawker]

funny how this thread keeps getting hauled up, must be because they truly are the best all rounder.

[Joey]

funny how this thread keeps getting hauled up, must be because they truly are the best all rounder.hit the nail on the head :supz:



joey

[Joey]

they adapt to every enviroment and every quarry they come up against they use different tactics the use there head abit more than other birds



joey

[Steve L]

Thanks for the replys guys i now own 2. so let that be an end to this thread.


thanks steve l

[Freddie1]

there is nobdy near me who flys birds i have asked on the forum to see if anyone flys there birds in lancashire area i got no responce so i guess nobody does and i could do with gaining some knolledge as im a complete novice im training a kestral as my first bird and all is going well shes been a challenge but im learning a lot,
Find a club close to you and I am sure some one will be happy to help. We joined a club from day one and we did'nt look back best of luck mate!!!

[BuzzBee]

Thanks for the replys guys i now own 2. so let that be an end to this thread.


thanks steve l

Cant you lock it?

[Jiff]

not before i have my two penneth worth, anyone can catch rabbits with a ferret and nets,anyone can catch a rabbit with a lurcher,anyone can catch a rabbit with a bird of prey, it's what they do naturaly anyway, harris hawks do not tame and train themselves they are however very pliable but at the end of the day you get out what you put in, i've had ferrets as long as i can remember, i would never be happy with a half hearted ferret, i would put extra effort in to make it better than the norm, or average ferret, i've had running dogs since i was sixteen i would have never been happy with a dog that just chased and caught a rabbit, i whanted one that would find, hunt,catch and return the rabbit to hand, this took alot of time and effort in training, inow have a bird, a harris hawk, she will catch rabbits occasionaly but that aint what it's about,with some extra affort and a feel for whats going on she'll take,anything that we set up, she can be difficult at times at home, she never trained her self i did and i know there's another thousand or so variations of hunting to go through untill we've covered every eventuality, i can't wait till i've seen them all, unfortunately life aint that long for anyone, the only thing thats limmited is the knowledge/experience of hunting of the keeper, people who find the harris predictable are those that expect the norm, the norm is easy, raise you're stakes.

[Mac]

darren, i have just noticed that you are from crosby, im wondering if you have any local permission, the reason i ask is because the landowners, farmers and affiliated shooting syndicates around that part of the world are very anti falconry.

if you dont have permission i would think long and hard about getting a bird because locally you are never going to be able to catch so much as a cold! and the hassle you will atract is unbeliveable even walking around the wood wall on a public footpath can warrant the intervention of a paranoid game keeper!

i live in formby but im originally from bootle and for over 25 years i have ever heard of anyone getting permision around crosby. i run two a syndicates one in southport, and im one one in ormskirk with small group of falconers. expensive but otherwise serious game hawking with the gosses would be an imposibility. as a bonus i have a fair bit of magpie only sport with spars on neighbouring shoots.

cheers sean

[M & J Raptors]

darren, i have just noticed that you are from crosby, im wondering if you have any local permission, the reason i ask is because the landowners, farmers and affiliated shooting syndicates around that part of the world are very anti falconry.

if you dont have permission i would think long and hard about getting a bird because locally you are never going to be able to catch so much as a cold! and the hassle you will atract is unbeliveable even walking around the wood wall on a public footpath can warrant the intervention of a paranoid game keeper!

i live in formby but im originally from bootle and for over 25 years i have ever heard of anyone getting permision around crosby. i run two a syndicates one in southport, and im one one in ormskirk with small group of falconers. expensive but otherwise serious game hawking with the gosses would be an imposibility. as a bonus i have a fair bit of magpie only sport with spars on neighbouring shoots.

cheers sean

Hawked on a few shoots around southport, some cracking gos land.